One Piece - Luffy 2 New Hax

[Trax]

the term "concept" is refering to idea here, not actual conceptual application. Haki's spiritual, but it isn't conceptual.

It manipulates the concept of flow thats all there is to it so it should count for at least the weakest version which is like tier 3. I made a mistake on saying ryou was concept and I already admitted to that, but I said ryou is a form of conceptual manipulation. A concept is an idea.

This is what it says Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly.

 

[KingTempest]

How does this matter? Plus in context he really wasn't ignoring it, its just that he was able to withstand and fight in sea prism even the weakest version makes a devil fruit user extremely weak even though they can walk. And luffy doesn't show law manipulation feats till gear 5. Oda not being a powerscaler doesn't mean anything lol thats like saying "since oda isn't a powerscaler" gear 5 is trash making all of luffys hax useless. One more very important thing is that its a hyperbole its clearly an exaggeration. If oda calls something a concept and he shows it, im agreeing with it even if he knows nothing about it.

He didn't show it to be a concept.

Me punching is based on the concept of force. I don't manipulate the concept of force.
They don't manipulate the concept of flow, they're practicing a property of it

 

[Arnoldstone18]

if you deny ill report you for debunking me.

fixed.*

following
Neutral on second proposal

 

[KingTempest]

enough with the jokes and memes

 

[SnookB]

It's not conceptual-
It's an understanding of an ability literally called 'spiritual'. The term concept here clearly isn't referring to higher dimensional things.

 

[ssgengar]

Disagree w the first suggestion

what examples are there of luffy having subjective reality?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It's not conceptual-
It's an understanding of an ability literally called 'spiritual'. The term concept here clearly isn't referring to higher dimensional things.

Its not spiritual... Well there's less proof of it being spiritual than conceptual... I would think

The word spirit is used once with other names such as intimidation and presence plus more of those types...

You can't just say it's not conceptual.... Then say because it's spiritual with even less proof of that

 

[SnookB]

what examples are there of luffy having subjective reality?

Initially we wrote it off as art style change but.. author said it
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op1053_4_006.png
"A sound effect is heard and stars appear around them. Like a picture book."

He can make cartooney things happen around him and to those he interacts with. There's instances of this in the manga as well.

All those 'effects' are occuring to the characters as we see them

 

[SnookB]

Its not spiritual... Well there's less proof of it being spiritual than conceptual... I would think

rayleigh said it's the embodiment of the spirit itself. If we get instances of it being called an 'abstract concept' then it can be argued

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

rayleigh said it's the embodiment of the spirit itself. If we get instances of it being called an 'abstract concept' then it can be argued

Bro... That's about conquerors Haki

 

[SnookB]

Bro... That's about conquerors Haki

So one haki is spiritual and the rest are 'abstract concepts'? You'd think we would get that differentiation

 

[Trax]

He didn't show it to be a concept.

Me punching is based on the concept of force. I don't manipulate the concept of force.
They don't manipulate the concept of flow, they're practicing a property of it

He didn't show it to be a concept? In what way do you mean that.

Now you almost had me on "Me punching is based on the concept of force. I don't manipulate the concept of force." And I thought extra hard, then I came to the conclusion with yes and no. Because it is true that punching requires force, and it's also true that you're able to punch with any force that you have until you reach your limit. BUT you never been shown to actually manipulate the concept of force in any shape or form, now I know this makes no sense and I couldn't find a better way to explain it so bare with me here. They do manipulate the concept of flow.

 

[ssgengar]

Initially we wrote it off as art style change but.. author said it
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op1053_4_006.png
"A sound effect is heard and stars appear around them. Like a picture book."

He can make cartooney things happen around him and to those he interacts with. There's instances of this in the manga as well.

All those 'effects' are occuring to the characters as we see them

Hmm so how would that affect combat? (If it’s even meant to)

leaning towards agree but I’ll see what others have to say

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So one haki is spiritual and the rest are 'abstract concepts'? You'd think we would get that differentiation

No where does it say that conqueror haki is spiritual... It says it uses the users spirit itself.

Magic can use elements, does that mean the magic is now elemental and not magic?

 

[SnookB]

Hmm so how would that affect combat? (If it’s even meant to)

leaning towards agree but I’ll see what others have to say

Confuses the opponent at best I guess? It doesn't look like it hurts you extra or anything, just severely throws you off because of how zany it is.

 

[SnookB]

No where does it say that conqueror haki is spiritual... It says it uses the users spirit itself.

Magic can use elements, does that mean the magic is now elemental and not magic?

They're using haki by embodying the spirit itself, therefore it's spiritual. They're not using the 'concept of will' itself, but using their willpower to manifest their spirit.

 

[ssgengar]

Confuses the opponent at best I guess? It doesn't look like it hurts you extra or anything, just severely throws you off because of how zany it is.

I mean it looks more like the effect of damage taken rather than the opponent’s reaction to the effects themselves

not taking away from luffy receiving the ability but yeah

 

[Trax]

Initially we wrote it off as art style change but.. author said it
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op1053_4_006.png
"A sound effect is heard and stars appear around them. Like a picture book."

He can make cartooney things happen around him and to those he interacts with. There's instances of this in the manga as well.

All those 'effects' are occuring to the characters as we see them

Confirmed luffy now qualifies for author level feats, when he fights he changes the art style, if you say otherwise your just biased and afraid luffy is going to transcend the vsbw tiering system soon. Your just scared that if luffy we're to fight anos, rimuru and fiction combined they would all get one tapped.

 

[Trax]

They're using haki by embodying the spirit itself, therefore it's spiritual. They're not using the 'concept of will' itself, but using their willpower to manifest their spirit.

ehhhh? How did we get to this I thought we was speaking about ryou.

 

[SnookB]

ehhhh? How did we get to this I thought we was speaking about ryou.

Ryuou is just what haki is called in the country of wano

 

[SnookB]

That's the whole reason Hyo said HAKI is a foreign concept, it's because he knows it as Ryuou. The name "Haki" is what is foreign to their country. He doesn't recognize the name but he literally says in the same page that he knows how it looks because he can use it.

 

[Trax]

That's the whole reason Hyo said HAKI is a foreign concept, it's because he knows it as Ryuou. The name "Haki" is what is foreign to their country.

That was luffy who said it... and ryou is the advanced version of armament haki. Ryou is called flow which is exactly what advanced armament does.

 

[KingTempest]

It isn't spiritual in the sense of the soul

 

[KingTempest]

That was luffy who said it... and ryou is the advanced version of armament haki. Ryou is called flow which is exactly what advanced armament does.

REGULAR armament haki flows.

 

[SnookB]

That was luffy who said it... and ryou is the advanced version of armament haki. Ryou is called flow which is exactly what advanced armament does.

It's Hyo who's on his back

 

[Trax]

Ryuou is just what haki is called in the country of wano

Its the advanced version. That's the whole reason its stated multiple times that "ryou is the meaning of flow" "ryou focuses on the concept of flow" or how in order to use it, you need to learn ryou. Thats why armament haki and ryou are addressed as two separate things.

 

[Trax]

REGULAR armament haki flows.

Any statements to back it up? If that we're the case they would have no reason to get the advanced version since they would already have it.

 

[SnookB]

Its the advanced version. That's the whole reason its stated multiple times that "ryou is the meaning of flow" "ryou focuses on the concept of flow" or how in order to use it, you need to learn ryou. Thats why armament haki and ryou are addressed as two separate things.

Ryuo is literally "flowing sakura". It's haki's name in a country that named it a different thing.
Just like observation haki is MANTRA in sky islands

 

[Trax]

It's Hyo who's on his back

I'm checking the manga, and it was luffy. I'm going to check the anime to see who directly states it

 

[Trax]

Ryuo is literally "flowing sakura". It's haki's name in a country that named it a different thing.
Just like observation haki is MANTRA in sky islands

Mantra was a specific version, that was even called "MIND ROPE" That allowed them to read the users thoughts. Ryou was specifically about advanced armament there's a difference.

 

[SnookB]

I'm checking the manga, and it was luffy. I'm going to check the anime to see who directly states it

It's either that or Luffy's saying the use of it as emission/durability negation is a foreign concept to him, who only ever used regular haki and koka.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

これが相手を威圧する力･･･“覇王色„の覇気…!!!この世で大きく名を上げる様な人物はおよそこの力を秘めている事が多いただしこの“覇王色”だけはコントロールはできても鍛え上げる事はできない

これは使用者の気迫そのもの...!!!本人の成長でのみ強化する

オークション会場でおっさんがやったやつ…

もう体験しているハズだキミの覇王色の資質は醒ましている完全にコントロールできるまでは多用してはならない周りにいる関係ない人間まで威圧してしまうからな…!!

This is the power to intimidate opponents... the "Haou-iro" power...! Most people who make a name for themselves in this world have this power, but this "Haou-ki" can be controlled, but not trained.

This is the user's spirit itself...! It can only be strengthened by the user's own growth.

The old man at the auction house...

You've already experienced it, your High King quality is awakened, and you must not use it too much until you have full control of it, because it will intimidate even those around you who are not involved...!

They're using haki by embodying the spirit itself

Where is proof?

therefore it's spiritual.

No... That literally makes it more unlikely that's it's spiritual

They're not using the 'concept of will' itself, but using their willpower to manifest their spirit.

They could be referring to concept , if it was only spiritual then they would say only the spirit... there would be no reason to add more examples to compare it to,

the name itself are even majority translated to a concept... So, no there is literally no proof of it being just spiritual. That's your headcanon

 

[KingTempest]

Any statements to back it up? If that we're the case they would have no reason to get the advanced version since they would already have it.

Look at every time Zoro puts armament on his swords

Mantra was a specific version, that was even called "MIND ROPE" That allowed them to read the users thoughts. Ryou was specifically about advanced armament there's a difference.

You didn't read or watch One Piece I swear to god

Mantra is not a specific version, it's the same exact shit.

 

[SnookB]

Where is proof?

The proof is rayleigh saying "It's the embodiment of spirit"

No... That literally makes it more unlikely that's it's spiritual

Not if Rayleigh said otherwise.

They could be referring to concept , if it was only spiritual then they would say only the spirit... there would be no reason to add more examples to compare it to,

"Could" isn't good enough to cut it.

 

[SnookB]

Look at every time Zoro puts armament on his swords

You didn't read or watch One Piece I swear to god

Mantra is not a specific version, it's the same exact shit.

Speaking of Zoro

Enma was specifically said to sap RYUOU, right? And it drains Zoro's life force via armament haki overuse, and as far as we know he can't use Ryuou.

 

[KingTempest]

Speaking of Zoro

Enma was specifically said to sap RYUOU, right? And it drains Zoro's life force via armament haki overuse, and as far as we know he can't use Ryuou.

yup

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

"Could" isn't good enough to cut it.

Which is why I never said haki is conceptual....

The proof is rayleigh saying "It's the embodiment of spirit"

That's not proof...

Not if Rayleigh said otherwise.

He did not say otherwise, he literally said otherwise WITH YOUR STATMENTS OF IT BEING JUST SPIRITUAL

 

[Trax]

Look at every time Zoro puts armament on his swords

This has to be the worst argument I've heard today. Zoro putting armament on his swords

Ah yes zoro has ryou because of the art style makes sense. The same thing that wasn't even fully established at wano existed for armament.

You didn't read or watch One Piece I swear to god

Mantra is not a specific version, it's the same exact shit.

Ah yes, I'm definitely not caught up on one piece. Yeah enel and that little girl reading minds definitely the same thing as fujitora and luffy able to sense emotions. Makes so much sense and lemme guess future sight and mind rope is the exact same thing right.

 

[SnookB]

Which is why I never said haki is conceptual....

That's not proof...

He did not say otherwise, he literally said otherwise WITH YOUR STATMENTS OF IT BEING JUST SPIRITUAL

my guy
he literally says "it's no different from BASIC CONCEPTS" That immidiately draws it down from abstract

 

[Trax]

Speaking of Zoro

Enma was specifically said to sap RYUOU, right? And it drains Zoro's life force via armament haki overuse, and as far as we know he can't use Ryuou.

It was stated to drain haki not ryou, where did you get this from