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Lucario VS Sonic the Hedgehog (X)

Ok so Lucario has stat boosting moves such as Swords dance, agility and ES to make it go even faster as well as Precognition which I'm not sure how it works
 
Against Lucario this time around, kinda seems like it ends in a Sonic victory, but this time with a much higher difficulty. Both Sonic and Lucario can just amp themselves to a higher speed and power, not sure about how big Lucario's strength amp is, things like Steadfast and Endure can clearly help him handle Sonic in hand to hand contests. Endure really saves Lucario from Sonic's power and strength amp from using a ring, since Sonic's amp clearly brings him up to like one-shot territory because it's pretty consistent that once Sonic gets a ring, he usually one-shots things that were comparable to him without it.

So the real question is how much faster Extreme Speed would make Lucario. If he uses ES and Sonic uses a ring, MAYBE they'll be even in speed again, but then Lucario'd just get one-shot. If he uses Endure, he'll survive, but then Sonic could just use chaos control and take the win that way. So it comes down to a staredown situation that Sonic wins to me. I'm voting for Sonic.
 
RagingInsomniac said:
Against Lucario this time around, kinda seems like it ends in a Sonic victory, but this time with a much higher difficulty. Both Sonic and Lucario can just amp themselves to a higher speed and power, not sure about how big Lucario's strength amp is, things like Steadfast and Endure can clearly help him handle Sonic in hand to hand contests. Endure really saves Lucario from Sonic's power and strength amp from using a ring, since Sonic's amp clearly brings him up to like one-shot territory because it's pretty consistent that once Sonic gets a ring, he usually one-shots things that were comparable to him without it.

So the real question is how much faster Extreme Speed would make Lucario. If he uses ES and Sonic uses a ring, MAYBE they'll be even in speed again, but then Lucario'd just get one-shot. If he uses Endure, he'll survive, but then Sonic could just use chaos control and take the win that way. So it comes down to a staredown situation that Sonic wins to me. I'm voting for Sonic.
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Agility+Extreme speed is pretty damn fast
Not to mention Extreme speed is the fastest priority move in the game along with Mega Lucario s ability that makes it stronger than other Megas in terms of power
 
RagingInsomniac said:
Against Lucario this time around, kinda seems like it ends in a Sonic victory, but this time with a much higher difficulty. Both Sonic and Lucario can just amp themselves to a higher speed and power, not sure about how big Lucario's strength amp is, things like Steadfast and Endure can clearly help him handle Sonic in hand to hand contests. Endure really saves Lucario from Sonic's power and strength amp from using a ring, since Sonic's amp clearly brings him up to like one-shot territory because it's pretty consistent that once Sonic gets a ring, he usually one-shots things that were comparable to him without it.

So the real question is how much faster Extreme Speed would make Lucario. If he uses ES and Sonic uses a ring, MAYBE they'll be even in speed again, but then Lucario'd just get one-shot. If he uses Endure, he'll survive, but then Sonic could just use chaos control and take the win that way. So it comes down to a staredown situation that Sonic wins to me. I'm voting for Sonic.
Click to expand...
Counted
 
Because extreme speed is still pretty much the fastest move in the series as to what it's profile says

Far faster than all light based attacks and it having + agility makes the user of Extreme speed go first than the other target that also uses extreme speed
 
Sonic being bloodlusted still would mean he'd stop time and defeat Lucario this way. Or use the ring boost. Or both

Even if Sonic is hit by Extreme Speed before then, Lucario is at an AP disadvantage, and Sonic can defeat him with the boost from the rings

Aura can help Lucario a bit, but I think Sonic still wins this one
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Sonic being bloodlusted still would mean he'd stop time and defeat Lucario this way. Or use the ring boost. Or both

Even if Sonic is hit by Extreme Speed before then, Lucario is at an AP disadvantage, and Sonic can defeat him with the boost from the rings

Aura can help Lucario a bit, but I think Sonic still wins this one
Click to expand...
Lucario literally has a passive ability that boost it's power and it's stat amp like ES and Agility is literally activated just by Lucario going fast
Not only that but Lucario can read minds and has precognition with aura so even if sonic decideds to use chaos control Lucario would swords dance+ adaptability+ES+Agility to curbstomp
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Sonic being bloodlusted still would mean he'd stop time and defeat Lucario this way. Or use the ring boost. Or both

Even if Sonic is hit by Extreme Speed before then, Lucario is at an AP disadvantage, and Sonic can defeat him with the boost from the rings

Aura can help Lucario a bit, but I think Sonic still wins this one
Click to expand...
Counted
 
Yeah it's probably really fast, but it probably comes down to how much faster. Like Sonic goes from clashing and matching Shadow step for step to Shadow being unable to react him with a ring. Extreme is pretty high priority, but his strength doesn't go up and it only lasts for like one attack like with Quick Attack, in which case Sonic survives because it wouldn't be enough to one shot or incap and he either uses a ring or chaos controls. If he activates Agility, Sonic uses a ring, blitzes and one-shots because Agility is a much slower speed amp than ES.

If they can use them at the same time, I think he still runs into the same problem. Agility ups his overall speed and then ES exponentially boosts it for that one instance of attack, but there's still no strength amp from it and he can't spend time doing something like Sword Dance, Focus Energy, or Work Up. Steadfast requires Sonic makes him flinch and Inner Focus sort of counteracts that. Justified wouldn't help because base Sonic doesn't have any dark-related attacks. Adaptability is good, but if he uses anything other than speed increasing moves then he gets blitzed by ring boosted Sonic and one shot.

So I think Lucario runs into the same problem. He may be overall faster after that one instance of an attack thanks to Agility after using it with ES, but since Sonic will be conscious afterwards, he'd just use a ring or chaos controls his way to a win. I don't see many other ways for him to outpace Sonic and take him out all at the same time. Reversal requires him to get hit first, so if Sonic uses a ring, it's not going to work because Lucario'd just get one shot and if Sonic doesn't use a ring then it won't do much because Lucario won't be much worse off. Same goes for something like Counter, he'd just get one shot and be unable to respond to the attack.

Copycat most likely results in him getting KO'd and spamming Detect wouldn't be a good idea because of diminishing returns. Laser Focus would be a good idea, but considering Sonic would already go in for CQC, Lucario probably couldn't pull it off, but I think Quick Guard's a good option for him. It still probably doesn't keep him from losing in the end, because he'll eventually try to attack and get punished for it.

Mind Reader seems like Lucario's best option in tandem with Agility, but it still sort of comes down to: Lucario wins early exchanges potentionally, Sonic uses a ring and wins or uses chaos control and wins. Other option is using things like Iron Defense and Endure only to be left in critical condition and get beat up next exchange. I can't see Lucario pulling through.
 
As I just said
Swords dance+Adap+Agility+ Extreme speed would make Lucario faster and strong enough to one shot and blitz Sonic and the AP difference should've save Sonic from that and even then how can Sonic be able to do anything if he's constantly being blitzed by a boosted Lucario that is faster than a lot of Pokémon that dodges light attacks on a daily basis
And ES is a move that activates just by going fast
 
With what time afforded to Lucario will he have to activate something like Swords Dance? They're both going to go for CQC right away because if Lucario wastes time to activate Swords Dance, he's losing. Adaptability won't help unless he uses a move that is fighting or steel and it also has to amp his speed in addition to activating agility, so unless he chooses to use Bullet Punch instead of Extreme Speed: it's a non-factor because every other fighting or steel type move he has is either A. Not Amping His Speed or B. Not Amping His Power.

Even if we said that he knocks Sonic down or away to buy time for Swords Dance, Sonic will just use chaos control and then the ring. It's a hard fight, but by the time he gets the chance to do something to amp his strength enough to KO Sonic, Lucario'd already be put down.
 
RagingInsomniac said:
What are you talking about? It's all the same arguement so it doesn't matter how many people there are, you either can refute it or you can prove Lucario could pull something of to grant him more win conditions.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't necessarily say that. Some other members could be more insightful of the series and offer new information that they weren't necessarily aware of. There's always the possibility they can bring something new to the table depending on how well versed they are on Pokemon. Thus changing the argument.

Personally I'm a Sonic and Pokemon fan, but it does feel a bit unfair for him to be getting jumped in a 1v3. But if no other Pokemon fan wants to jump in, then it can't be helped.
 
Ego said:
Lucario literally has a passive ability that boost it's power and it's stat amp like ES and Agility is literally activated just by Lucario going fast
Not only that but Lucario can read minds and has precognition with aura so even if sonic decideds to use chaos control Lucario would swords dance+ adaptability+ES+Agility to curbstomp
Click to expand...
You ignore the part where both are bloodlusted, meaning Sonic will use his ring boost immediately or just win with Chaos Control

To even gain an AP advantage Lucario will have to use Swords Dance, which wastes time and leaves him open for an attack by ring boosted Sonic.

Same goes for agility, as he'd need to set that up. Meanwhile Sonic teleports straight to him and attacks while Lucario tries to set up

Chaos Control is also faster than Extreme Speed (as it stops time), so even if he gets hit Sonic shrugs it off and defeat Lucario. To win Lucario must set up several sword dances and agilities uninterrupted, which Sonic won't just stand there, and Sonic only need to use the ring, teleport and strike once to win

Lucario also doesn't have precognition. At most it's instinctive reactions like Ultra Instinct in a way like how Ash's Lucario fought against Leon, but even then, it won't help if Sonic just stops time. Mind Reader also is an activated move that takes a bit to use so he wouldn't know Sonic's moves immediately

As a note, I'm knowledgable on both verses and I love Mega Lucario, but I must admit Sonic is more likely to win here
 
Just please stop man

This thread is just mostly sonic supporters and it's unclear who would actually win or is this a stomp
 
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