Low 2-C Smash Bros (Because you can´t just close threads without at least telling me a reason why.)

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Note- This is a repost of a previous thread that was closed by a miscomunication.

I know this has been talked about before, but i just found out that some arguments used against Low 2-C Smash like (They are just toys! and You cannot kill a god, you dummy!) Are pretty bad.

So i guess its apropiate to execize my will and make another thread about it hoping Low 2-C Smash is finally a thing!

There are three major things i think went over most people´s heads in this thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1761225#28

1.- Classic Mode is 100% CANON as shown in the Brawl Throphy description, where [1] every single throphy is comparable to each other and can fight Master Hand as he takes joy in challenging them.

2.-The Smash World and The World of Beyond (Probably an allegory to the real world) are separate, and just as real as the real world. Not a kid´s room like in Smash64. [2]

3.-Master Hand in Smash 4 is only stated to be the source of creation IN the smash bros universe, not the source of creation OF the Smash Bros Universe. While this might might seen underwhelming, it means that Master Hand is the main source of creation, but not the only or the defininite one. [3]

4.-Sonic Hurt Tabuu´s wings, Ganondorf got knocked out after being struck against one of Tabuu´s restrains on MH, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRl-3tPFXw8

And all of them teamed together against Tabuu. I dont see the outlier anywhere.

So, in conclusion, Smash Bros Characters should be

Low 7-B, Possibly Low 2-C

At least Small City level(Should be comparable to SSB Kirby). Universe+ (Able to hurt Tabuu)

And for Smash 4 characters

(Comparable to fighters who fought Tabuu)

Worst case scenario is considering all those non-Brawl characters non canon to emmissary and thus, should stay with their Low 7-B tiering.

But i do see them as comparable to each other, so this worst case scenario is not that likely.

 

[Antvasima]

I fixed the formatting of your post. Do not write like that in the future.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Sorry about that.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Bump

 

[The_Smashor]

 

[Jinx666]

No.

We dont need like, 65 extra non canon pages. Inb4 Duck Hunt can now fight against Jiren

 

[QuasiYuri]

The outlier was "They were one shot by Tabuu's Off Waves (the attack with his wings)".

But Off Waves are more one hit kill or death manipulation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're doing this agai, huh?

Did it not come to you to read the immense thread(s) we had about this subject before, and how 90% of your reasons were debunked?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Master Hand is also outright said to keep his true power hidden when he fights the Smash crew and that his true power borders on absolute. So no, they do not scale to him.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Yeah, I also disagree with the OP. This seems way too farfetched for the Smash Crew to be comparable to Tabuu and Master Hand and given a Universal Scaling.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

The waves were weakened by Sonic attacking them.


And you disagree with the OP because you have not read the post above and how classic mode is 100% canon.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

>Master Hand kept his power hidden

Aside from the throphy description, that is nonsense.

Master hand held back when he was killed/KOd by Tabuu? Do you have any evidence he restrains himself when fighting opponents in classic mode as stated in the throphy?


No, you have not.

They do scale. the best you can get is an "At most" before Low 2-C, but the evidence and scaling are pretty obvious and clear cut.


Read the OP before commenting, because i already adressed everything you said on your comment.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Of course he didn't, which is why Tabuu is rated stronger than Master Hand.

And yes I do. The aforementioned Brawl trophy. At best you could make an argument for Crazy Hand or Master Core not having the same restriction, but Master Hand Clearly does.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

So. If Master Hand didnt held back against tabuu, why the hell doesnt the throphies scale when...

1.-Classic Mode is canon, and its stated on a throphy just as the Low 2-C statements for Master Hand, so they literally have the same "value"

2.- Sonic actually had to debilitate Tabuu´s strongest move to make the fighters able to fight Tabuu at all. The Fighters CANNOT beat a full powered Tabuu even if they all teamed up together, which does support that they should scale to the debilitated form

3.-There is no evidence against it aside from "They are TOYS you guys"?


Just let the characters be "Low 7-B, Likely Low 2-C" already, i havent heard an argument that is not clearly contradicted by the sources cited on the OP.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because beating Tabuu is an outlier. Heck, WoG says that even the weakened Off Waves will one-shot anyone, but the effect is nowhere near as drastic.

And it's an outlier because Sonic casually severely weakens Tabuu, while WoH says they have to bust out all the stops to take down Master Hand while he's holding back and testing them.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Because beating Tabuu is an outlier.

Beating a full powered up Tabuu is the outlier.

There is no evidence that Master Hand held back agaisnt the throphies in Classic Mode, which is as canon as the Low 2-C statements in its throphy.

Heck, WoG says that even the weakened Off Waves will one-shot anyone, but the effect is nowhere near as drastic.

One shot anyone individually, thats why they could win by teaming up.


--

And it's an outlier because Sonic casually severely weakens Tabuu

Watch the scene again, Sonic attacks Tabuu right before it launches another set of waves which woul have one shot everyone in there, not in a dirrect confontrontation in any shape nor fashion.

It was obviously a sneak attack and when Tabuu was charging his attack. (Which would have casually killed Sonic and everyone in there no diff.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7jgz_wgjuk


while WoH says they have to bust out all the stops to take down Master Hand while he's holding back and testing them.

Do you have evidence that Master Hand holds back against the throphies? I have seen the Brawl description again, and he just says he takes pleasure in challenging them.

Having pleasure in a fight means you are holding back?

Please show me any proof that Master Hand was holding back or that he was "testing" them.

Testing them? For what reason?

 

[Landon_Avery]

Yeah, I also disagree with the OP. This seems way too farfetched for the Smash Crew to be comparable to Tabuu and Master Hand and given a Universal Scaling.

By that logic this version Ryu shouldn't scale to Asura.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Yeah, i agree, Asura is a god, and Ryu is just a human and humans cant hurt gods you guys, i was wrong.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

...but he seems to have obtained (and kept hidden) a power that borders on absolute.
	~ Trophy​

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Yeaaaaah, but you already said that he didnt hold back against Tabuu now, did you?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I've already mentioned that you are using circular reasoning by bringing up Ganon and Sonic.

These are the very feats you're trying to prove aren't outliers. Citing the feats themselves isn't evidence that they are consistent. A single feat that is replicated by the entire cast is merely a single feat, not 37+ feats.

Your statement about Ganon is wrong, by the way.