Lostbelt Revisions and new Profiles

[BreezeHM]

Since my last one didn't get as much recognition, I remade it with everything that I wanted to cover and I hope this one goes better.
I ask that you don't reply to each Spoiler note but just the ones you disagree with unless needed.


Olympus

Spoiler: Dioscuri

Saber (Dioscuri)
Things Changed:

• Formatting to be easy on the eyes
• Higher with Mana Burst

Heian-Kyo Revisons

Spoiler: Alive Selves for Genji Warriors and Oni

You can find them all here

Spoiler: Hasshoujin

Profiles for Hasshoujin are here alongside a new profile for Taira-no-Kagekiyo

Spoiler: Ritsuka Fujimaru

Limited Low-Godly Healing (Healed Caster who's Spirit Core was almost completely shattered. However, she started disappearing shortly after due to lacking magical energy)
Average Human with FTL reactions (Can watch the battle between Kintoki and Taira-no-Kagekiyo)

 

[Stryker861]

Only seen first season of fate zero so im not knowlegible but I just thought someone being average human level with FTL reactions was funny

 

[BreezeHM]

Only seen first season of fate zero so im not knowlegible but I just thought someone being average human level with FTL reactions was funny

not even the worst of it, after I finish this I'll do the Crypters and Wodime will have Immeasurable reactions

 

[Fezzih_007]

I don't get it why some of them are Low 6-B with the justification of "being stronger than this guy".
Like, should't they be just Unqualified higher than High 6-C? This is how is treated on other verses
or there's a reason for they being Low 6-B?

Also, the servants would still be FTL, because of the tsukihime characters speed feat, if they scale to them.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Speed part: You missed completely the point about how Musashi and Mash reacting to Dioscuri was just one of the many FTL feats, all of which were extensively discussed in the previous threads were the speed rating were accepted, plus Mash own calc and new feats after the LB5.2 release (like, we are at the point of the franchise were just something like sculpting is done at the speed of light), for not even talking to the Tsukihime scaling since they also have their own FTL feats.
Swordmaster Regen: Unsure.
Swordmasters: Why are you posting all the resistances from their servant physiology in the profiles itself when the purpose of the servant physiology page is list all of that there and not bloat the profiles?
Saber of Emperio: Where is the proof of his innate resistance to magic and why it would be power nullification? Unless it showed to nullify magic around like the skill Magic Resistance then I don't know why, and I'm asking because this is alive Munemori not his servant serlf that only gained it due to his class (and even then is mentioned how his experience against the supernatural in live was limited).

And haven't read the rest, lost the motivation to do while reading all the things before, so I will let others judge if the profiles are fine or what.

I don't get it why some of them are Low 6-B with the justification of "being stronger than this guy".
Like, should't they be just Unqualified higher than High 6-C? This is how is treated on other verses
or there's a reason for they being Low 6-B?

As I said haven't see all the profiles, but at least trying to justify a bit what I suppose he did, servants currently scale to High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons), so any buffed key or character that scale above servants would become Low 6-B since the gap between tiers is so small at that point (x1.039) that the wiki allow that sort of jump, so the swordmasters for example should be Low 6-B since they were stronger than servants due to the curse. Also, from Crimson crt a year ago those that scale to Zero Musashi scale above Numeral Gawain so there is that.

 

[Fezzih_007]

As I said haven't see all the profiles, but at least trying to justify a bit what I suppose he did, servants currently scale to High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons), so any buffed key or character that scale above servants would become Low 6-B since the gap between tiers is so small at that point (x1.039) that the wiki allow that sort of jump, so the swordmasters for example should be Low 6-B since they were stronger than servants due to the curse. Also, from Crimson crt a year ago those that scale to Zero Musashi scale above Numeral Gawain so there is that.

Oh, i din't know that, that makes sense.

 

[BreezeHM]

Speed part: You missed completely the point about how Musashi and Mash reacting to Dioscuri was just one of the many FTL feats, all of which were extensively discussed in the previous threads were the speed rating were accepted, plus Mash own calc and new feats after the LB5.2 release (like, we are at the point of the franchise were just something like sculpting is done at the speed of light), for not even talking to the Tsukihime scaling since they also have their own FTL feats.

I see, I understand now. Shouldn't the justifications be changed then because the feats with the Dioscuri seem like outliers. Since they overwhelmed 5 servants while only moving at lightspeed? Aswell as the calcs and notes on the main page

Swordmasters: Why are you posting all the resistances from their servant physiology in the profiles itself when the purpose of the servant physiology page is list all of that there and not bloat the profiles?

It looked odd to me if some Servants had resistances with the tabbers and others didn't it. It was more of a personal thing but I can remove it.

Saber of Emperio: Where is the proof of his innate resistance to magic and why it would be power nullification? Unless it showed to nullify magic around like the skill Magic Resistance then I don't know why, and I'm asking because this is alive Munemori not his servant serlf that only gained it due to his class (and even then is mentioned how his experience against the supernatural in live was limited).

Thanks for catching that, I might've missed it when I was copying and pasting from another Swordmaster. I also included the scan for him killing Limbo.

As I said haven't see all the profiles, but at least trying to justify a bit what I suppose he did, servants currently scale to High 6-C+ (962 Gigatons), so any buffed key or character that scale above servants would become Low 6-B since the gap between tiers is so small at that point (x1.039) that the wiki allow that sort of jump, so the swordmasters for example should be Low 6-B since they were stronger than servants due to the curse. Also, from Crimson crt a year ago those that scale to Zero Musashi scale above Numeral Gawain so there is that.

Yes, I saw in some vs matches that Servants scale to 962 Gigatons so anyone stronger would be Low 6-B.

And haven't read the rest, lost the motivation to do while reading all the things before, so I will let others judge if the profiles are fine or what.

No worries, thanks for your time.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I see, I understand now. Shouldn't the justifications be changed then because the feats with the Dioscuri seem like outliers. Since they overwhelmed 5 servants while only moving at lightspeed? Aswell as the calcs and notes on the main page

You are missing the point again of them being stronger than the group, they were gods with Zeus nanomachines so physically speaking they were too strong for them (after all just remember what normal citizens could do thanks to the nanomachines), is why the heaviness of their blows is remarked, so it isn't like speed was the actual problem and instead was the combination of their big physical advantage + authority + teamwork (since at the end they were two brothers accustomed to fight together), so the justification shouldn't be changed at all. In general the calculation section in the verse pages are outdated as several calcs aren't added and others are wrong (like the listed end of Ishtar calc), people just haven't cared enough to update it.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Yeaaaah don't know if you realised, but them being buffed by Nanomachines does relatively nothing for their rating y'know.

Suppose we hypothesised that Klironomia gave all of them EX Ranked Agility as servants, Santa Karna would scale to that and those who've fought Santa Karna would then downscale and then it would downscale to everyone regardless. Which obviously isn't the case since Mash obviously doesn't have EX-Ranked Agility post Klironomia. So, them being buffed by Klironomia does nothing in terms of their speed.

This isn't even discussing how there's that one scene from the very beginning of LB5.2 where Musashi just blocks an attack from Dioscuri before Nanomachines btw.

 

[Small_Ophion]

Read through Olympus profiles, I'll just comment on things I find questionable and can comment on, unfortunately I don't know NEP and Transduality that well

Everyone:

Resistance To all previous resistances

What is this supposed to mean exactly?

Dioscuri:
Don't think you need to list all resistances since I'm pretty sure they are listed in Servant Physiology in the Chaldea Servant key

Musashi:
Do we have confirmation that Musashi is a Magus?

 

[Maxeez]

Yeah, except the speed and the resistances part, this seems mostly fine but I don't really have the time to check everything as it's quite long, so you should probably call a staff member or the like to evaluate the hax you find to be iffy.

 

[BreezeHM]

You are missing the point again of them being stronger than the group, they were gods with Zeus nanomachines so physically speaking they were too strong for them (after all just remember what normal citizens could do thanks to the nanomachines), is why the heaviness of their blows is remarked, so it isn't like speed was the actual problem and instead was the combination of their big physical advantage + authority + teamwork (since at the end they were two brothers accustomed to fight together), so the justification shouldn't be changed at all. In general the calculation section in the verse pages are outdated as several calcs aren't added and others are wrong (like the listed end of Ishtar calc), people just haven't cared enough to update it.

Speed was a much bigger factor since there's more statements about their speed rather than strength (there's like two statements of their physical strength) Musashi even says that the worst part is their insane speed.
Then of all, Mash couldn't even react to Dioscuri and would've lost her head without Homes buffing Musashi. Her FTL calc shoud've been more than enough to react and that calc also took place pre-Orthinax.
This screams outlier or retcon to me

Yeaaaah don't know if you realised, but them being buffed by Nanomachines does relatively nothing for their rating y'know.

Suppose we hypothesised that Klironomia gave all of them EX Ranked Agility as servants, Santa Karna would scale to that and those who've fought Santa Karna would then downscale and then it would downscale to everyone regardless. Which obviously isn't the case since Mash obviously doesn't have EX-Ranked Agility post Klironomia. So, them being buffed by Klironomia does nothing in terms of their speed.

This isn't even discussing how there's that one scene from the very beginning of LB5.2 where Musashi just blocks an attack from Dioscuri before Nanomachines btw.

I haven't looked over this event so correct me if I'm wrong.
Perfect example of why parameter scaling is messed up. Santa Karna is capable of throwing punches FTL and you have servants with D rank agility capable of fighting against him? Even an A rank agility could run circles around a D rank. Servants have FTL combat speed and all, but the whole reason for Karna's EX agility is his FTL punches. I know certain events like Onigashima are cannon due to main story reference but do we consider other events to be cannon just like it?

This isn't even discussing how there's that one scene from the very beginning of LB5.2 where Musashi just blocks an attack from Dioscuri before Nanomachines btw.

Then of all, Musashi and Mash could only react due to Klironomia that buffs their capabilities in combat. In the first confrontation against Dioscuri in Olympus, Dioscuri would've killed Mash if Holmes didn't enhance Musashi with a spell. The Klironomia also have a duration so it's not permanent so it can't impact future scaling.

 

[BreezeHM]

Read through Olympus profiles, I'll just comment on things I find questionable and can comment on, unfortunately I don't know NEP and Transduality that well

Everyone:

What is this supposed to mean exactly?

In their next key, just showing that they still have all their resistances from their previous key.

Dioscuri:
Don't think you need to list all resistances since I'm pretty sure they are listed in Servant Physiology in the Chaldea Servant key

It looked odd to me if some Servants had resistances with the tabbers and others didn't it. It was more of a personal thing but I can remove it.

Musashi:
Do we have confirmation that Musashi is a Magus?

Her heavenly eye is a mystic eye that activates by magical energy

 

[Fezzih_007]

but do we consider other events to be cannon just like it?

The cristmans events don't make any sense to be Canon, because of the descrepancy in the timeline. Like, the singularity problema is supposed to take 1 year, but then we celebrate two cristmans until then.

Does someone have a explanation for this timeline?

 

[Fezzih_007]

The cristmans events don't make any sense to be Canon, because of the descrepancy in the timeline. Like, the singularity problema is supposed to take 1 year, but then we celebrate two cristmans until then.

Does someone have a explanation for this timeline?

Ops, i am derailing now, ignore this please.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I haven't looked over this event so correct me if I'm wrong.
Perfect example of why parameter scaling is messed up. Santa Karna is capable of throwing punches FTL and you have servants with D rank agility capable of fighting against him? Even an A rank agility could run circles around a D rank. Servants have FTL combat speed and all, but the whole reason for Karna's EX agility is his FTL punches. I know certain events like Onigashima are cannon due to main story reference but do we consider other events to be cannon just like it?

Yeah no reason not to, Summer 4 servants appear in Imaginary Scramble and SPOILERS in LB7 upon summoning your servants to fight ORT the game actively acknowledges the number of servants you posses, in other words if you have 300 servants the game will state that all servants you've contracted with adds up to 300. Which will can and most certainly will include event servants. I know I have several event servants. So event servants are actively acknowledged in game. Best not to think about it too much you'll just confuse yourself.

So again I'll say it, even if they were buffed by Nanomachines it doesn't particularly matter as far as their ratings go. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware but that quite literally happened in the event he fought against all the previous Santa's and didn't immediately blitzstomp any of them and as FATE would have it Artoria Alter Santa happens to possess a D-Rank Agility stat.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Speed was a much bigger factor since there's more statements about their speed rather than strength (there's like two statements of their physical strength) Musashi even says that the worst part is their insane speed.
Then of all, Mash couldn't even react to Dioscuri and would've lost her head without Homes buffing Musashi. Her FTL calc shoud've been more than enough to react and that calc also took place pre-Orthinax.
This screams outlier or retcon to me

You know that FTL in the general world refer to any speed beyond 299792458m/s (Speed of Light) right? Is not a fixed speed, so the argument that a character able to go beyond the speed of light can't be "blitzed" (as you portrait it as if Dioscuri was blitzing them, which ) by another character that also go beyond the speed of light is inherently incorrect., at worst going the route you want it would just mean that the Dioscuri would scale above Mash calc. Furthermore, in a fight there are several factors that come to play (like the distance between characters, the movements performed by each side, the angle of attacks, etc) that end affecting a fight, is due to those factors that even faster people can be hit by slower things, and unfortunately for us with how the game is we don't know those factors to understand how much they end affecting the fights (so similar situation to novel verses).

Also, you treat Holmes support spell as the great thing when he isn't particularly know in verse for provide extraordinary buffs, as well as the fact that several other characters possess enhancements of equal or higher level than those but despite that not all their fights end on blitzs (like, if any Caster worth anything could just simply blitz other servants then the class wouldn't be considered as weak without great amounts of prep time). If Dioscuri was just let's say, 1.5xFTL, then Mash speed from her calc could had probably be enough to dodge (though this Mash is actually weaker than that Mash as Ortinax is canonically worst than Galahad but meh, let's ignore that part), but that's just assuming that Dioscuri just went at those speeds.

Not necessarily as I explained, but even if you go that route then the FTL ratings would continue as there still are several more FTL feats.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Also, about the Karna part, even the materials itself state that he just is the Karna of his training days, so that would scale to normal Karna even if the event wasn't canon (spoiler, it is, like Summer, Hallowen and all seasonal events).

 

[BreezeHM]

Yeah no reason not to, Summer 4 servants appear in Imaginary Scramble and SPOILERS in LB7 upon summoning your servants to fight ORT the game actively acknowledges the number of servants you posses, in other words if you have 300 servants the game will state that all servants you've contracted with adds up to 300. Which will can and most certainly will include event servants. I know I have several event servants. So event servants are actively acknowledged in game. Best not to think about it too much you'll just confuse yourself.

I see, thank you.

So again I'll say it, even if they were buffed by Nanomachines it doesn't particularly matter as far as their ratings go. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware but that quite literally happened in the event he fought against all the previous Santa's and didn't immediately blitzstomp any of them and as FATE would have it Artoria Alter Santa happens to possess a D-Rank Agility stat.

Yeah, thats what I mean by parameter scaling being inconsistent but it's too much of a headache to care about it

You know that FTL in the general world refer to any speed beyond 299792458m/s (Speed of Light) right? Is not a fixed speed, so the argument that a character able to go beyond the speed of light can't be "blitzed" (as you portrait it as if Dioscuri was blitzing them, which ) by another character that also go beyond the speed of light is inherently incorrect., at worst going the route you want it would just mean that the Dioscuri would scale above Mash calc. Furthermore, in a fight there are several factors that come to play (like the distance between characters, the movements performed by each side, the angle of attacks, etc) that end affecting a fight, is due to those factors that even faster people can be hit by slower things, and unfortunately for us with how the game is we don't know those factors to understand how much they end affecting the fights (so similar situation to novel verses).

I know a FTL character can blitz another one. My argument was that Dioscuri isn't FTL at all. Since he has multiple statements of being near light speed and Speed of light and only FTL with the use of his authority. He blitzed Mash without the use of his authority or he would've been coughing blood, meaning Castor was only moving at Lightspeed there. I mean in general, can a SOL even blitz a Rel+? I've seen calcs on the wiki that people were able to dodge light and only got Rel, but like you said there are a lot of factors that dictate a fight.

Also, you treat Holmes support spell as the great thing when he isn't particularly know in verse for provide extraordinary buffs, as well as the fact that several other characters possess enhancements of equal or higher level than those but despite that not all their fights end on blitzs (like, if any Caster worth anything could just simply blitz other servants then the class wouldn't be considered as weak without great amounts of prep time). If Dioscuri was just let's say, 1.5xFTL, then Mash speed from her calc could had probably be enough to dodge (though this Mash is actually weaker than that Mash as Ortinax is canonically worst than Galahad but meh, let's ignore that part), but that's just assuming that Dioscuri just went at those speeds.

Not necessarily as I explained, but even if you go that route then the FTL ratings would continue as there still are several more FTL feats.

The point is that without the spell, Mash would've died and Musashi wouldn't have reached Mash in time before the Dioscuri. We can't prove the distance between Mash, The Dioscuri and Musashi but if you're surrounded by 3 gods, a divine spirit and two Immortal giants, you'd likely stick closer together than away. But it's all assumption. Which is why we should change the justification to another FTL Feat since Dioscuri's feats are unreliable or outliers.

Spoiler: Lostbelt 6 Spoiler

It's also not just the speed feat but Olympus in general has some shaky stuff like how Caenis became a god and was defeated by Mash and Holmes? It was off screen but no one there is god level (tier 1) and black barrel isn't usable on Caenis. Only thing I can see is Holmes beating her because (SPOILER)
He's an apostle of the Foreign god and since we've seen Limbo capable of using magecraft on a tier 1 level Holmes should be able too as well.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Also, about the Karna part, even the materials itself state that he just is the Karna of his training days, so that would scale to normal Karna even if the event wasn't canon

Pretty sure that's just refering to his personality, not that he is litteraly Karna for his training days.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I know a FTL character can blitz another one. My argument was that Dioscuri isn't FTL at all. Since he has multiple statements of being near light speed and Speed of light and only FTL with the use of his authority. He blitzed Mash without the use of his authority or he would've been coughing blood, meaning Castor was only moving at Lightspeed there. I mean in general, can a SOL even blitz a Rel+? I've seen calcs on the wiki that people were able to dodge light and only got Rel, but like you said there are a lot of factors that dictate a fight.

Blitz no, which is why I put it under "" because it wasn't by any mean a blitz, it's just that you want to make it look like a blitz.

The point is that without the spell, Mash would've died and Musashi wouldn't have reached Mash in time before the Dioscuri. We can't prove the distance between Mash, The Dioscuri and Musashi but if you're surrounded by 3 gods, a divine spirit and two Immortal giants, you'd likely stick closer together than away. But it's all assumption. Which is why we should change the justification to another FTL Feat since Dioscuri's feats are unreliable or outliers.

Is also possible that without the extra buff of the support spell she wouldn't had be able to stop the attack (like, not having the strength to do so, which would had resulted in them getting cut regardless). It isn't an outlier unless you want it to be and it work as a feat having leasted, so there is no purpose to edit quite literally hundreds of profiles (and this come from the dude who edited hundreds of profiles just for a fate revision, mind you).

Also about the spoiler part 1) If you want to consider Olympus an entire outlier or do like it didn't existed then whatever, you are on your right, however our profiles aren't going to do that because it was an really important history chapter 2) When replying to an post is show the thing wrote inside a spoiler that, so anyone answering that will see the spoiler, like me.


This is my last post there, already commented and gave my piece.

 

[Fezzih_007]

and this come from the dude who edited hundreds of profiles just for a fate revision, mind you

Not gonna lie, having this dedication to a verse, you are cool.

 

[BreezeHM]

Blitz no, which is why I put it under "" because it wasn't by any mean a blitz, it's just that you want to make it look like a blitz.

How would it not be considered a blitz? Here's the entire scene. We clearly see Castor dissapear and Mash does ! with the facial expression change indicating she can see Dioscuri's movement and yet Musashi came in to block it. If that's not a blitz I don't know what else to tell you. Also if you chose the Mash dialouge she tells you this.

Is also possible that without the extra buff of the support spell she wouldn't had be able to stop the attack (like, not having the strength to do so, which would had resulted in them getting cut regardless). It isn't an outlier unless you want it to be and it work as a feat having leasted, so there is no purpose to edit quite literally hundreds of profiles (and this come from the dude who edited hundreds of profiles just for a fate revision, mind you).

It's more of a mixture of both strength and speed since Musashi says that right after. It's shown Mash is able to block the attacks of the Dioscuri right after the Dioscuri was given permission to execute them. She wouldn't need help and there's no indication that Holmes buffed Mash as well. It quite literally is an outlier or retcon. If Servants have FTL combat speed it contradicts the entirety of them "losing" to Dioscuri who's swordplay was lightspeed.

You have my upmost respect for your dedication and work especially with how Nasuverse is treated on the wiki, but if the justification is wrong, it has to be changed.

Also about the spoiler part 1) If you want to consider Olympus an entire outlier or do like it didn't existed then whatever, you are on your right, however our profiles aren't going to do that because it was an really important history chapter 2) When replying to an post is show the thing wrote inside a spoiler that, so anyone answering that will see the spoiler, like me.


This is my last post there, already commented and gave my piece.

I understand it's important but if there's stuff that greatly contradicts scaling it has to be addressed.
Thank you for your time once again.

 

[Small_Ophion]

In their next key, just showing that they still have all their resistances from their previous key.

I'm pretty sure you don't write it like that. It would be saying that you resist resistances rather than that you have all previous resistances.

Her heavenly eye is a mystic eye that activates by magical energy

Mythic Eyes have their own magic circuits that produce magic energy, didn't know we'd give the rating for an entire being because of stuff like that.

 

[BreezeHM]

I'm pretty sure you don't write it like that. It would be saying that you resist resistances rather than that you have all previous resistances.

Could also just put all previous resistances?

Mythic Eyes have their own magic circuits that produce magic energy, didn't know we'd give the rating for an entire being because of stuff like that.

Mystic eyes have their own magic circuits that produce magical energy but the thing is how you acquire them. Either
1. A natural mutation in the Magic Circuits located in the area around one's eyes.
2. Inborn Mystic eyes

If its one it means she has magical circuits qualifying her as a magus. If its two I have no idea from the top of my head I can't remember much about them. It's never confirmed how she got her heavenly eye so its all speculation.

 

[Small_Ophion]

Could also just put all previous resistances?

Yeah I think that would work

If its one it means she has magical circuits qualifying her as a magus. If its two I have no idea from the top of my head I can't remember much about them. It's never confirmed how she got her heavenly eye so its all speculation.

It's more likely it's the rare option two due to the nature of her eyes and how she's mainly a Swordsman and they generally get bullshit handed to them rather than being a Magus, but fair enough we don't know.

Resistances would still work for option two I think, the wording would just have to be altered a bit.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I know I said my previous response was the last post there but it seems like I forgot to unfollow the thread so when I was going to do it I saw the last thing said and need to correct it.

Musashi Mystic Eyes are natural, and literally every single human in the verse possess magic circuits (anyone with a soul at least) so that don't mean she suddenly is a mage, she never was and never will be a mage, so anything mentioning that on her profiles is just wrong.

Now I'm unfollowing this so this really was my last post

 

[Fezzih_007]

I think Shiki also have Magic circuirts, but he don't have any resistance s because he is not a mage, Musashi should be the same.

 

[Small_Ophion]

If Shiki doesn't have those resistances then I agree, Musashi shouldn't either

 

[BreezeHM]

I have removed the resistances.
Should the Genji warriors also have their resistances removed? They are shown to use magic without knowing what it is, cut intangible beings and sense magical energy.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I have removed the resistances.
Should the Genji warriors also have their resistances removed? They are shown to use magic without knowing what it is, cut intangible beings and sense magical energy.

Is stated they use magic circuits to do so? If no, you probally would have to take it out.

And they are not mages anyways, so probally you would.

 

[BreezeHM]

It can't only be restricted to mages since its rejecting the effect with magical energy itself. If you've shown that you're able to use magical energy you should also qualify for the resistance effects. At least Raikou and Kintoki should qualify since their lightning comes their own bodies due to their relation to gods themselves. Tsuna literally just cuts so I'll probably remove his

Magi have magic resistance.
It is the power to repel "magic" such as hypnotism, binding, and coercion.
As long as one is a magus, one cannot be easily controlled by others.

It's a fundamental law.
Magi have Magic Circuits.
The circuit in one's body does not only make magical energy, but it can also repel external magical energy.

Therefore, it is difficult to interfere with someone with a Magic Circuit, and it is difficult even to control a magus several ranks lower than you.
As the Magic Circuit repels external magical energy, magic is destroyed before it can be completed.

 

[Small_Ophion]

Currently from what I understand, only Magi gain the resistances due to their active use of Magic Circuits and understanding of them. For that reason, Shiki Tohno wasn't given the mentioned resistances even tho he has magic circuits.

So using magical energy subconsciously or instinctively (ex. Natural Mythic Eyes) wouldn't count for this reason since everyone has magic resistance.

Otherwise we would have everyone get Resistance Negation. Idk which characters would specifically get them or not, I have 3 exams today so only had time to write this.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Small Country Level (Defeated Berserker of Samghata Hell and Rider of Kalasutra Hell)

I kinda have a problem with this.
So, first Musashi din't fight both of them, she only fight Rider. Kotaro is the one who fight Douji. So she don't exactly scale to both of them.
And second, she don't nescessary as strong as Rider, she only able to beat her due to experice and better skill.
So basically the only thing that changes is the justication to "Is able to fight Berserker of Samghata Hell"

 

[BreezeHM]

Currently from what I understand, only Magi gain the resistances due to their active use of Magic Circuits and understanding of them. For that reason, Shiki Tohno wasn't given the mentioned resistances even tho he has magic circuits.

So using magical energy subconsciously or instinctively (ex. Natural Mythic Eyes) wouldn't count for this reason since everyone has magic resistance.

Otherwise we would have everyone get Resistance Negation. Idk which characters would specifically get them or not, I have 3 exams today so only had time to write this.

Makes sense, I'll fix in a bit

I kinda have a problem with this.
So, first Musashi din't fight both of them, she only fight Rider. Kotaro is the one who fight Douji. So she don't exactly scale to both of them.
And second, she don't nescessary as strong as Rider, she only able to beat her due to experice and better skill.
So basically the only thing that changes is the justication to "Is able to fight Berserker of Samghata Hell"

At this time, Kotaro cannot cut the spirit core of the swordmasters, so Musashi is the one who cut both of them down. Most likely, Kotaru somehow held of Douji until Musashi cut both of them. She doesn't scale to the combined force of them just them individually.
She won against her in a one on one duel, It's not like she out smarted her or was too fast for her. But I'll change the justification since she didn't take two on at once.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Right, i really want to make a match with Musashi, so i Hope this get accepted.

 

[BreezeHM]

Right, i really want to make a match with Musashi, so i Hope this get accepted.

It'll take some time, and a match with Musashi? Might be hard since Servant 4D invul and Her smurf fate hax

 

[Fezzih_007]

It'll take some time, and a match with Musashi? Might be hard since Servant 4D invul and Her smurf fate hax

With the Human Key.

 

[Makenai]

Speed part: You missed completely the point about how Musashi and Mash reacting to Dioscuri was just one of the many FTL feats, all of which were extensively discussed in the previous threads were the speed rating were accepted, plus Mash own calc and new feats after the LB5.2 release (like, we are at the point of the franchise were just something like sculpting is done at the speed of light), for not even talking to the Tsukihime scaling since they also have their own FTL feats.

Those who have direct FTL speed should stay, but those who get it via stats scaling should be removed. You can't just take a massively boosted servant's feats and scale it to every servant under the sun. Also that's not Mash but Galahad and I'm pretty sure it's an outlier since it's multiple times stated no servant (bar grands) or humans can travel at FTL, even a divine spirit like Dioscuri took a toll for moving at such speed.

 

[Accelerate420]

From this thread, we have Servants scaling to Rel+ with FTL reactions and combat speed due to Musashi fighting against Dioscuri who could move faster than light. However, this is true and false.
The Dioscuri can only move up to Speed of Light and can only move FTL when they use their authority to accelerate past it. Castor uses the authority to go FTL to catch Ritsuka. Musashi and Mash could react to his FTL movement but could not move fast enough to reach Ritsuka before Castor.

Then of all, Musashi and Mash could only react due to Klironomia that buffs their capabilities in combat. In the first confrontation against Dioscuri in Olympus, Dioscuri would've killed Mash if Holmes didn't enhance Musashi with a spell. The Klironomia also have a duration so it's not permanent so it can't impact future scaling.

Conclusion: Downgrade the speed of servants. Pre-Klironomia buffs, Mash and Musashi were able to block attacks from the Dioscuri which can warrant Speed of Light reactions for servants but not combat speed. In other words, without a special case, The justification for servants speed should look like:
Relativistic+ with Speed of Light reactions: (Slower/Faster/Comparable to Mash with a D rank in agility who could block attacks from the Dioscuri)

I'm really surprised people just ignored this entire part, but yeah. Mash couldn't even see Dioscuri and Musashi only barely caught their initial attack pre-Kli buff with Holmes support spells buffing her. Mash has no means of reacting to Dioscuri's speed at that point in time so scaling her against them and spreading that to other characters was always ludicrous. It should be noted that going FTL nearly killed Dioscuri in the process, but it's not entirely relevant to this revision.

I don't believe they should even get SoL reactions since Mash herself couldn't react, which was stated by Musashi and shown in the cutscene, but giving it to other servants who are significantly faster than Mash seems fine.

Everything else seems fine though.