Lord English VS God Emperor

[QuasiYuri]

It depends of how high you consider Paradox Space to be above Feferi/MSPA. Even if Paradox Space containing them would put it slightly above the Warp.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think he could get a explanation section about his innevitability powers, also maybe a link to that one blog containing the scans for pretty much all of his abilities.

Maybe john could get one for his retcon powers too idk.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm already planning a page for retcon powers yeah, an inevitability "explanation" isn't really useful, since it's both Lord, his classpect, and the nature of Paradox Space, which Caliborn and WoG already resume pretty well.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Still, come to think of it, links to things explaining Caliborn's passives on his page wouldn't be remiss. With passives that powerful, people are inevitably going to ask questions.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'll work on it in parallel with other revisions then.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Very good. I have some revisions in mind myself once the move is over.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm pretty interrested then.

If you don't mind, I think it would be kinda cool if we could talk a little about future Homestuck revisions on the general discussion thread or on message wall (since for now there's forum move and all).

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

The Emperor of Mankind t-poses on him..

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Passives say "no u".

 

[The_Wright_Way]

https://fictionnal-battle.fandom.co...Retcon_Powers,_and_others_things_(explained!)

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Tzeentch has most of those albeit on a lower scale

 

[The_Wright_Way]

And the fact that they're on a lower scale is why Emps can't resist them. Hense the passive stomp.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean can't the Emperor just will them to stop working? What does it do exactly, just ensure Caliborn cannot be killed? Can it destroy the Emperor? It seems like a meta-narrative which causes Caliborn to become the key-stone of existence and ensure he doesn't die.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

TBF the chaos gods are key-stones of existence as well

And the emepror was stated to have become "an eternal part of the universe" after he "ascended"

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Being a key-stone in existence in some form of reality doesn't mean Big E cannot destroy. The only issue for Big E is "events falling in Caliborn's favour" on a meta-narrative level, on a high scale. Even then what could Caliborn do to kill the Emperor in that case, because Big E resists everything except that. And does it prevent Big E from just nullifying it when he sees that Caliborn is becoming a key-stone to existence or whatever? because it doesn't seem like an instant incap.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

TBF the chaos gods are key-stones of existence as well

And the emepror was stated to have become "an eternal part of the universe" after he "ascended"

Where was this stated? Because I can't find this anywhere.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

How can he will something to stop working if he's already been affected by it?

More to the point, hos powers just make it so he always wins. Everything always goes his way. He wanted Jake to become strong, so he always would've become strong no matter what. Even if Caliborn hadn't actively intervened to help Jake necome stronger, Jake would've become stronger anyways because Caliborn wanted that to happen.

In a combat setting, Caliborn always seeks to win. His ulitmate goal is the destruction of everything in his path, so the forces of the plot, inevitably, and so on, work to make that happen.

Caliborn is in a fight. He's going to want to win. So his passives make him win. And sense his passives have already taken effect, EOM won't turn them off. He's already being influenced by the plot not to. His potential actions are being altered so they serve Caliborn in some way. Even actions taken to stop him help him. When Caliborn was sealed, all that happened was that he became 1-A.

TLR Caliborn's passives are literally "**** you, I win".

However, he does have limits. Even in universe. Characters who resist his hax on his level potency (John Egbert) or 1-As vastly above his level (MSPA Reader or Ultimate Dirk) can beat him. He's not a NLF, no character is. Please don't misinterpret how I'm trying to sell him.

At the end of tge day, Caliborn is just another character in fiction with bullshit hax. EOM simply isn't strong enough and doesn't have high enough resistances to stop said bullshit hax.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I guess if the plot influences him he could not just nullify the ability. Even so he might be aware he's being influenced because of his Cosmic Awareness unless the ability literally rewrites how he thinks.

In any case how does the plot kill Big E then? Can it enforce him to die if Caliborn cannot kill him with anything he's got?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I have an answer to that, but I'm going to be busy IRL for a moment.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Well, before I get into that, I do have one question. How good is EOM's resistance to EE/Conceptual Destruction? Because LE's can bypass 1-A resistances even as a 2-A, it just took a few days to go into effect.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He resists it on a 1-A level of entities who can also bypass resistances and rip them off.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Then, yeah. Inconclusive.

Neither can kill the other. Lord English becomes another player in the great game.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Well, before I get into that, I do have one question. How good is EOM's resistance to EE/Conceptual Destruction? Because LE's can bypass 1-A resistances even as a 2-A, it just took a few days to go into effect.

You mean his "poison"?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah. Wasn't that counted as EE?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Yeah. Wasn't that counted as EE?

Well it is part of his void manipulation, which contains his normal EE (double death), so it is narrative EE.

Although john body still remained after he died, as far as i've read.

But i think the only reason why john survived that long and terezi had a corpse to capthalogue was because of john plot resistance, since it is basically "canonical dissolution" vs "being unstuck from canon".