Local Nazi Attempts to Impale Crazy Cat Lady with Spear

[VoidGoji]

Hadou/Gudou Gods are pretty haxxed even among the hiperdimensional level, geez.

Reinhard for reasons above. (A.k.a immensely powerful and giant legion)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Votes:

Law of the Fabulous Golden Hair (we all know that's his real law): 5 (ZERO7772, ALRF, Redgrave. Extreme123, SchroKatze)

Homura's Suffering on Steriods: 0

 

[FateAlbane]

That title, tho.

Reinhard for reasons above and army of 1-A hax raised to his level on his side.

 

[Extreme123dz]

Votes:
Homura's Suffering on Steriods: 0

i Think DarkLK for this :v

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

True, I forgot about Dark. Got caught up in the charisma of the Beast

Votes: Reinhard: 6 (ZERO7772, ALRF, Redgrave. Extreme123, SchroKatze, FateAlbane)

Homura's Suffering on Steriods: 1 (DarkLK)

 

[Cropfist]

Reinhard for reasons above.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Reinhard: 7

Bern:1

Dark, do you submit or will you force a grace period?

 

[DarkLK]

Berny ain't got nothing on, Wilhelm absorbing her powers or the pieces she summons, they are not gonna survive against Tubal poison, they are not gonna run away from Eleonore fire, they aren't going to escape Rusalka, they aren't going to handle Machina ONE PUNCH, they aren't gonna hold off Wolfgang facerolling into them, Beatrice lightning, Rot Spinne Conceptual chokes (that doesn't even make any sense but hey it's the almighty Spinne). Quantitative has nothing to do with this battle, they are as strong as Reinhard, that's what matters, they were capable of affecting and go even with Mercurius.

There will be guys with immeasurable speed (relative to their level), with various conceptual manipulations and denying it, "impossible to shoot down," "impossible to avoid," and "impossible to survive when hit," Ignoring the dimensionless non-dualistic Regenerationn and resurrection after destruction at this level, absorption etc.

I could write the same opposite "argument", but this basically does not make sense, because there probably will not be a battle between the two armies.

Reinhard for reasons above

Only thing that can be a "reason" in this topic is a proof of qualitative superiority.

And the only thing that could justify this was ZERO7772's post where it says about how the difference in the values of taikyoku works.

But, unfortunately, it follows from his explanation that Reinhard is "only" a multiple levels of infinity (steps of qualitative difference) superior to baseline 1-A.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well here is the thing in Ren vs Reinhard Marie route (spoilers somewhat) Ren was getting hit and damaged by simple railguns, pauserfausts and skeletons with bayonets like he was in pain and those two fighters are even yet the army of skeletons just managed to hurt Ren

 

[LordGinSama]

Bern for the reasons above.

 

[DarkLK]

Bern for the reasons above.

There was no reason for Bern as well as for Reinhard)))

There is almost nothing but flood.

 

[LordGinSama]

Oh my mistake, I thought you voted for her

 

[FateAlbane]

Ok, since we decide 1-A matches going by feats, what feats does Bern have on a 1-A scale of fighting? I've seen a lot of them being given for Rein, but didn't see much for Bern yet.

Unless she has some broken feats done on a 1-A scale, there's no reason to stop me from voting Reinhard based on better displays, since in all 1-A threads I've seen so far that was literally the rule/standard for voting one or another.

 

[DarkLK]

Oh my mistake, I thought you voted for her

But that's the reason why I think why Bern will win, in the event that there is nothing new in favor of Reinhard, in addition to what ZERO7772 said.

Each layer is a few levels of infinity over the previous one and everything is 1-A from the very first meta-layer. The Beatrice's territory contains several meta-layers. But Bern and Lambda destroyed several Outerversal territories larger than Beatrice's one during their lesbian plays battle. And they was just just some strong m-bodies.

 

[FateAlbane]

As far as I remember, her battle against Lambda created and destroyed many Higher-Dimensional planes of existence, not Outerversal territories.

Also bricks don't hit back. jk

And when did Bern summon tons of pieces to 1-A, and more than that, on the same level as herself?

 

[DarkLK]

As far as I remember, her battle against Lambda created and destroyed many Higher-Dimensional planes of existence, not Outerversal territories.

It used to be thought that although the Witch Domain contained Infinite layers, the Material Domain was only one layer. Now there was information that this is not so.

 

[DarkLK]

And when did Bern summon tons of pieces to 1-A, and more than that, on the same level as herself?

When her avatar summoned quadrillions of cats in the sea of nothingness for example. She also sometimes used Inquisitors, Chiesters, Theory Goats and other witches (Erika, Ange) or their artificial version (Clair).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

How powerful are Featherine's cats.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

1-B on their own, but they can be raised to her level apparently

 

[FateAlbane]

I'm not so sure about that. For example, she (Bernkastel) tried to use the Cats to deal with Battler, but they couldn't do a thing to him. Then, Bern herself took matters in her own hands and rekt Battler until Ange pulled the whole resurrection or whatever.

I don't remember the Goats having displays on a 1-A level (much less on Bern's level) either, but honestly I'm pretty sleepy atm and can't say for sure so I'll wait for others to discuss on this for the time being.

@Laciel If need be or if reasons are considered debunked later, feel free to remove my vote.

Off I go.

 

[DarkLK]

How powerful are Featherine's cats.

Depends on which layer she will summons them.

 

[DarkLK]

Goats having displays on a 1-A level

Literally everything in the Sea of Fragmets is 1-A now. This whole witch domain (Metaphorical beyond description) is superior to the material domain (Guided by fate and conceptualized), which has a similar multi-layer structure, where dimensions are just an internal design of layer.

Witches perform summon by adding beings to their own inner world, because of what they receive comparable power due to the existence of a higher layer/domain, even if they did not go through spiritual evolution in their own way.

 

[Antvasima]

I am obviously not fond of 1-A battles, as most of us are not able to properly compare characters of this level.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Since there is a rule against making matches between 1-A characters, should this match be closed down?

However, this match could still work if we were to solely evaluate their capabilities, and whether Reinhard/Bernkastel are able to counter the abilities of each ofher. If one of them has an ability the other cannot counter, it should be concluded in the former's victory.

DarkLK made an interesting note in this thread, and I will take a closer look at it.

 

[ALRF]

And? The Throne itself is 1-A, it lacks the concept of time, Ren was capable of freezing it, Reinhard and Mercurius are fine against Ren, both of them were even damaging the Throne during their skirmish.

You cannot say there will be no army, it's Reinhard Law, It's his desire and nature, you are basically denying that.

 

[Antvasima]

There isn't a rule against such matches anymore. It just isn't encouraged to create them.

 

[DarkLK]

and the different of 10 equal the different of infinity

By the way, why exactly 10? Gudou Shiori with her endless army able to defeat someone who has 1 more taikyoku than she has?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I too think that 1-A matches never go anywhere.

 

[DarkLK]

Well you can ban it if it such a problem.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think it should be banned. I just don't like it.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Just a checkup. If the difference between 1 taikyou = abilities completely nullfified, this would mean that every time your taikyou increases, you are actually transcending it instead of being infinitely greater.

I know that Bernkastel encompasses several meta-layers, and even encompassing a single meta-layer = 1-A, meaning Bernkastel is only a couple degrees above 1-A (assuming that going up a meta-layer = transcending the previous layer).

Basically, assuming that taikyou = meta-layer since incrasing a value of both by an increment of one allows you to completely transcend the previous value...

• Reinhard has a value of 90
• Bernkastel has a value of several (under 10)

Reinhard transcending Bernkastel multiple degrees above her power should make this a stomp match in favor of Reinhard, I think.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's a difference of 10 Taikyoky that makes it completely impossible for you to beat the opponent, no matter how powerful you are on your own, I think. Not 1 Taikyoku.

As long as you and your opponent are within a range of 10 Taikyoku, it isn't impossible to beat them

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I would recommend you to not try to equalize Dies Irae's cosmology and the Umineko cosmology. you will get nowhere.

 

[ALRF]

Let's say X has 10 Taikyoku and Y has 9 Taikyoku, Y will have his abilities nullified no matter what.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@ALRF Doesn't the explanation page say the difference needs to be 10 Taikyoku to make the battle completely impossible to win?

@Matt, personally I reckon that if the two verse are comparable at all, its a pretty sensible way to do things. Verse equalisation and all that.

 

[ALRF]

@Monarch Yeah 10 difference makes it impossible to win(Look at Satanel and Mercurius for exemple.)

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

10 makes it impossible but 1 alone makes it very hard hence why the gods need to keep their pace properly as 1 easily could factor the fights shifting at least from what i understand

 

[DarkLK]

I would recommend you to not try to equalize Dies Irae's cosmology and the Umineko cosmology. you will get nowhere.

Strangely enough, they actually have a lot in common. I do not see any significant problems. We just need to estimate how many quality steps each has over baseline 1-A.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

So how about we bring up some feats instead? Like Machina punching Mercurius attacks out of existence not to mention being considered capable of taking out other deities in one punch. Beatrice piercing his throat and the Legion, in general, being capable of wrecking shit something fierce.

His very existence at this point basically being an attack of sorts since it immediately paints over reality and takes it into himself. Hell, even Ren at the peak of his power had to be careful when interacting with Gladsheim since a single mistake would end up absorbing him immediately.

And again, Taikyoku value is just a way to determine who is the stronger deity. In short, what we have here is a very simple case of power scaling:

Reinhard (Apoptosis) > Marie!Reinhard (Atziluth) = Saltanel >>> Saltanel Shade that required Shiori using all of her possibilities in tandem with Soujirou to take out.

That same Shiori is the one who can spam an infinite number (possibilities) of herself, each one as powerful as she is, and Soujirou can go toe-to-toe with all of them, cutting them down just the same.

So Reinhard and Mercurius are pretty damn absurd in the grand scheme of things when you consider how they are superior to every deity from KKK barring Hajun and Yato at full strength.

 

[DarkLK]

Just a checkup. If the difference between 1 taikyou = abilities completely nullfified, this would mean that every time your taikyou increases, you are actually transcending it instead of being infinitely greater.
I know that Bernkastel encompasses several meta-layers, and even encompassing a single meta-layer = 1-A, meaning Bernkastel is only a couple degrees above 1-A (assuming that going up a meta-layer = transcending the previous layer).

Basically, assuming that taikyou = meta-layer since incrasing a value of both by an increment of one allows you to completely transcend the previous value...

• Reinhard has a value of 90
• Bernkastel has a value of several (under 10)

Reinhard transcending Bernkastel multiple degrees above her power should make this a stomp match in favor of Reinhard, I think.

I see some even say that you need 10 taikyoku to get an overwhelming superiority. Although I personally am not sure that even a difference of 1 can be overpowered.

And even within a single layer there can be the several levels of infinity difference between beings and structures. The evolution of Lambda was literally "been coming down over a thousand years, step by step, through the ladder". Where the steps are layers. And Voyagers always continue to evolve and always restrict themselves.