Local fish woman attempts to spear a penguin (Undyne vs Skipper) (7-1-0) (Concluded)

[koopa3144]

• Fight takes place in a zoo
• Base Undyne is being used
• Speed is equalized
• SBA for anything else

NGAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!: 7
99.6 Megajoules
MRS OBAMA GET DOWN: 1
111.04 Megajoules

Incon: 0

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

I’m going to say Undyne more times than not. She can turn Skipper’s soul green completely restricting him from moving and spam Danmaku spear attacks which Skipper doesn’t really have experience dealing with. She also can keep fighting under extreme pressure and regenerate from attacks via determination.

I can see Skipper winning via AP advantage/ pressure points and knocking Undyne out and arguably being more experienced in hand to hand combat and via his limited probability manip, but I think Skipper would be caught completely off guard with magical spears coming at him and would not be able to do anything about his soul turning green. Which would keep him from getting any major hits on her. Also due to the probability manip being limited and only happening on rare occasions, I don’t think it’s consistent enough to be considered a win con compared to the feasibility of Undyne’s win cons.

 

[JJSliderman]

If Skipper gets his perfect day hax he should win, otherwise not sure.

 

[koopa3144]

I’m going to say Undyne more times than not. She can turn Skipper’s soul green completely restricting him from moving and spam Danmaku spear attacks which Skipper doesn’t really have experience dealing with.

Her spear attacks don't really start off very green soul mode and Skipper is very adept with weapons like spears so he might be able to deal with the green soul attacks.

She also can keep fighting under extreme pressure

Skipper has also endured extreme pressure such as massive beatdowns from animals far larger than him, he has also claimed to have withstood intense torture routines in gulags, concentration camps and whatnot.

and regenerate from attacks via determination.

I doubt that Undyne would be to muster enough determination to regen. Frisk can kill and a lot of monsters in a neutral run and Undyne still fails at getting enough determination to regen.

and would not be able to do anything about his soul turning green. Which would keep him from getting any major hits on her.

Undyne never keeps someone's soul green for very long, she'll eventually revert skippers' soul back.

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x2

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Undyne FRA

 

[koopa3144]

Undyne FRA

It's a bit too early to vote.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

It's a bit too early to vote.

Why?

 

[koopa3144]

Why?

I countered @The_Almighty_Wholesome's argument's for Undyne and no new arguments for her have been made.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

I countered @The_Almighty_Wholesome's argument's for Undyne and no new arguments for her have been made.

I’ll respond when I get the chance

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x2

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x3

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x4

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x5

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x6

 

[koopa3144]

Bump x7

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Her spear attacks don't really start off very green soul mode and Skipper is very adept with weapons like spears so he might be able to deal with the green soul attacks.

Only if her opponents are running away, if Skipper is facing her, she’d automatically go to using green mode on skipper. Skipper may be adept with going up against weapons users but I don’t think he’s experienced at all soul hax, Danmaku, and paralysis inducement users. He’d be completely taken off guard by the green soul hax and not know how to deal with something that completely ignores durability and that he can’t avoid.

Skipper has also endured extreme pressure such as massive beatdowns from animals far larger than him, he has also claimed to have withstood intense torture routines in gulags, concentration camps and whatnot.

Yes Skipper has a lot endurance but it pales in comparison to Undyne who can survive the longest to Frisk via determination if they chose to fight her. She also is the head royal guardsmen who was trained by Asgore and is a master at hand to hand combat and the fight style of Undertale. Skipper wouldn’t be anyone that she’s not faced before whereas to Skipper Undyne is a type of fighter he’s never fought before.

I doubt that Undyne would be to muster enough determination to regen. Frisk can kill and a lot of monsters in a neutral run and Undyne still fails at getting enough determination to regen.

Fair enough but her determination keeps her standing even after Frisk has depleted her health bar so this can be counted towards endurance for her.

Undyne never keeps someone's soul green for very long, she'll eventually revert skippers' soul back.

It’d be out long enough for Undyne to kill Skipper, a character with no knowledge, experience, or resistance to her soul hax or fighting style.

 

[koopa3144]

Only if her opponents are running away, if Skipper is facing her, she’d automatically go to using green mode on skipper. Skipper may be adept with going up against weapons users but I don’t think he’s experienced at all soul hax, Danmaku, and paralysis inducement users. He’d be completely taken off guard by the green soul hax and not know how to deal with something that completely ignores durability and that he can’t avoid.

Someone is put in green soul mode they are given a spear to defend themselves with and due to how slow undyne's spears move at the start of the fight he should be able to piece together what to do but I can see him getting overwhelmed when and if she gets to her fastest spear throwing speed.

Yes Skipper has a lot endurance but it pales in comparison to Undyne who can survive the longest to Frisk via determination if they chose to fight her. She also is the head royal guardsmen who was trained by Asgore and is a master at hand to hand combat and the fight style of Undertale. Skipper wouldn’t be anyone that she’s not faced before whereas to Skipper Undyne is a type of fighter he’s never fought before.

Skipper can also take a lot of hits and keep going. Also, as said above skipper has decades worth of experience fighting various animal species and I doubt that the underground has any penguins with the same amount of skill and experience Skipper has.

It’d be out long enough for Undyne to kill Skipper, a character with no knowledge, experience, or resistance to her soul hax or fighting style.

Echo what I said in the first post. Also, I don't think it's in character for undyne to kill someone, she'll probably just beat him to point he passes out.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Someone is put in green soul mode they are given a spear to defend themselves with and due to how slow undyne's spears move at the start of the fight he should be able to piece together what to do but I can see him getting overwhelmed when and if she gets to her fastest spear throwing speed.

Please don’t hold it against me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there’s any evidence suggesting that Undyne gives her opponents spears before the battle starts although I could be wrong. I always thought Frisk was responsible for the spear/shield appearing.

However if Skipper gets a spear, I can see him blocking her easier and slower attacks like you said but I highly doubt he’ll know what to do when it comes to the yellow spears or when she gets faster with her attacks. Even outside of green mode, she’s fairly ruthless with her danmaku style of attacks. For example, she could make spears rain on top of him or she could make spears appear out of the ground.

Skipper can also take a lot of hits and keep going. Also, as said above skipper has decades worth of experience fighting various animal species and I doubt that the underground has any penguins with the same amount of skill and experience Skipper has.

I’m not denying that Skipper can’t take a beating, I’m just saying Undyne is more prominent at it via determination and her low regen. Undyne was trained by Asgore who has likely has hundreds of years of fighting experience, and Undyne is shown to have knowledge of wrestling and other types of fighting. Asgore is arguably FAR more skilled than Skipper.

Echo what I said in the first post. Also, I don't think it's in character for undyne to kill someone, she'll probably just beat him to point he passes out.

The Undyne fights and in fact every other fight in Undertale says otherwise, the only character that would do that is Papyrus in a fight scenario.

 

[koopa3144]

Please don’t hold it against me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there’s any evidence suggesting that Undyne gives her opponents spears before the battle starts although I could be wrong. I always thought Frisk was responsible for the spear/shield appearing.

However if Skipper gets a spear, I can see him blocking her easier and slower attacks like you said but I highly doubt he’ll know what to do when it comes to the yellow spears or when she gets faster with her attacks. Even outside of green mode, she’s fairly ruthless with her danmaku style of attacks. For example, she could make spears rain on top of him or she could make spears appear out of the ground.

Now is a good time to note Skippers' high agility. Also, her yellow spears are used pretty late into the battle so Skipper might be able to take her out before she can use them.

I’m not denying that Skipper can’t take a beating, I’m just saying Undyne is more prominent at it via determination and her low regen.

I still don't think that Undyne will be able to get enough determination for any amount to regen. She couldn't heal a single hit point while being beat up by Frisk and only attempted to when she was about to die.

Undyne was trained by Asgore who has likely has hundreds of years of fighting experience, and Undyne is shown to have knowledge of wrestling and other types of fighting. Asgore is arguably FAR more skilled than Skipper.

While I do agree that Asgore is more skilled than Skipper, Iirc we don't know how long the monster vs human war lasted nor if Asgore had any fighting experience prior. And after the war all he did was sit and wait for humans to kill so it's probably safe to assume he'd be a little rusty while training undyne.

Undyne fights and in fact every other fight in Undertale says otherwise, the only character that would do that is Papyrus in a fight scenario.

Yeah the monsters were fighting to kill in undertale because they need Frisks soul. Here under SBA Undyne wants to win the battle but is still in character and she wouldn't kill someone without reason.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Now is a good time to note Skippers' high agility. Also, her yellow spears are used pretty late into the battle so Skipper might be able to take her out before she can use them.

Agility will help him but it won’t matter every time she turns his soul green. Also as said before, I don’t recall Skipper going up against danmaku users before so he’ll be completely taken off guard. She’ll use them quicker if he faces her head on, which he would. The only reason Undyne didn’t get more aggressive with her attack patterns is because Frisk was running away. Iirc, if you use violence in that fight, she’ll use her stronger and harder to dodge attacks quicker.

I still don't think that Undyne will be able to get enough determination for any amount to regen. She couldn't heal a single hit point while being beat up by Frisk and only attempted to when she was about to die.

Fair point, I was mainly trying to say Undyne can still keep fighting for a bit longer even after her health is depleted.

While I do agree that Asgore is more skilled than Skipper, Iirc we don't know how long the monster vs human war lasted nor if Asgore had any fighting experience prior. And after the war all he did was sit and wait for humans to kill so it's probably safe to assume he'd be a little rusty while training undyne.

I mean, iirc monsters in Undertale have had Magic since they were born and with how long Asgore has been alive and him being royalty and a king that defends the underground, it’s only natural to assume that he’d been training prior to the war. Also, Undyne was the strongest and most skilled monster prior to being head of the royal guard + training with Asgore and she couldn’t even land a hit on Asgore. Undyne is likely only in her 20s based on the evidence that we have so Asgore is not that rusty. Also, despite HEAVILY holding back in his fight against Frisk, he seems just as strong as he used to be during the war and a very skilled combatant in combat that trained Undyne to greater heights than she already was.

Yeah the monsters were fighting to kill in undertale because they need Frisks soul. Here under SBA Undyne wants to win the battle but is still in character and she wouldn't kill someone without reason.

Okay sure but I will say she’s not one to hold back in combat (unless it’s Papyrus or monsters she has soft spots for) I will concede that she wouldn’t kill unless it came down to it in this fight but she’d probably knock him unconscious.

 

[koopa3144]

Agility will help him but it won’t matter every time she turns his soul green.

Fair but as I said before, due to how slowly she throws her spears when she first uses green soul mode he shouldn't have much of a problem dealing with it.

Also as said before, I don’t recall Skipper going up against danmaku users before so he’ll be completely taken off guard. She’ll use them quicker if he faces her head on, which he would. The only reason Undyne didn’t get more aggressive with her attack patterns is because Frisk was running away. Iirc, if you use violence in that fight, she’ll use her stronger and harder to dodge attacks quicker.

The reason she starts off throwing her spears slow is because the speeds she throws her spears correspond's with how angry she is. This can be seen in both of her chases, the longer Frisk runs away the faster she throws.

I mean, iirc monsters in Undertale have had Magic since they were born and with how long Asgore has been alive and him being royalty and a king that defends the underground, it’s only natural to assume that he’d been training prior to the war. Also, Undyne was the strongest and most skilled monster prior to being head of the royal guard + training with Asgore and she couldn’t even land a hit on Asgore. Undyne is likely only in her 20s based on the evidence that we have so Asgore is not that rusty. Also, despite HEAVILY holding back in his fight against Frisk, he seems just as strong as he used to be during the war and a very skilled combatant in combat that trained Undyne to greater heights than she already was.

Fair.

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah, voting undyne. her soul hax + immobilizing skipper is gonna be the end of him.

 

[koopa3144]

Yeah, voting undyne. her soul hax + immobilizing skipper is gonna be the end of him.

Her spear attacks don't really start off very fast in green soul mode and Skipper is very adept with weapons like spears so he might be able to deal with the green soul attacks.

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Undyne FRA

 

[Comiphorous]

Her spear attacks don't really start off very fast in green soul mode and Skipper is very adept with weapons like spears so he might be able to deal with the green soul attacks.

And that'll last for a little bit until... he gets his ass beat? what's the point of mentioning that? she won't take him out of green mode for a while, and when she does it's for sneak attacks, and will usually put you back into it after an attack.

Skipper literally has zero way to fight against green soul.

 

[koopa3144]

And that'll last for a little bit until... he gets his ass beat? what's the point of mentioning that? she won't take him out of green mode for a while, and when she does it's for sneak attacks, and will usually put you back into it after an attack.

I'm saying that Skipper is skilled enough to block her spears until she turns his soul back. Once she does Skipper can use his stealth and acrobatic skills (as seen here and here) to get the one pressure point strike he needs to win.

 

[Comiphorous]

I'm saying that Skipper is skilled enough to block her spears until she turns his soul back. Once she does Skipper can use his stealth and acrobatic skills (as seen here and here) to get the one pressure point strike he needs to win.

Skilled enough to block stuff he's not skilled in blocking?

yeah im sure that'll work.

 

[koopa3144]

Skilled enough to block stuff he's not skilled in blocking?

yeah im sure that'll work.

So you're saying that he'll just sit there and watch as the flying spears slowly come towards him and not block them with the spear Undyne just give him?

 

[Comiphorous]

So you're saying that he'll just sit there and watch as the flying spears slowly come towards him and not block them with the spear Undyne just give him?

And you're saying he'll instantly pick up blocking spears that come from all sides that get faster and faster? with spears even changing their direction last second?

 

[koopa3144]

And you're saying he'll instantly pick up blocking spears that come from all sides that get faster and faster? with spears even changing their direction last second?

It's not that hard to piece together "Oh I can't move but I can block these spears flying at me with the one this fish woman gave me" and she only yellow spears late into the battle so she might not even get to use them before Skipper knocks her out.

 

[Comiphorous]

It's not that hard to piece together "Oh I can't move but I can block these spears flying at me with the one this fish woman gave me" and she only yellow spears late into the battle so she might not even get to use them before Skipper knocks her out.

That's still assuming he'll easily be able to block attacks coming from all angles.

I'm holding my vote.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Fair but as I said before, due to how slowly she throws her spears when she first uses green soul mode he shouldn't have much of a problem dealing with it.

Skilled enough to block stuff he's not skilled in blocking?

yeah im sure that'll work.

Basically what this person said. Skipper is in no way experienced in dealing with Undyne’s style of fighting.

The reason she starts off throwing her spears slow is because the speeds she throws her spears correspond's with how angry she is. This can be seen in both of her chases, the longer Frisk runs away the faster she throws.

I mean, from my point of view, even Undyne’s slower casual basic attacks are going to hit Skipper due to them all coming from different directions, Skipper’s inexperience with danmaku, and no resistance to soul hax. So it won’t really take Undyne to get that mad to succeed in this fight. However if Skipper managed to land a hit or tried to escape, I’d imagine she’d be pretty pissed and try to pull out difficult/stronger attacks that are hard to avoid. I mean personally I’d be pretty pissed if I happened to get hit in a fight and would try everything in my power to become tougher as an opponent and expose and take advantage of my opponent’s weaknesses. Considering Undyne is pretty hot headed, the head of the royal guard, and is a very skilled fighter, I’d assume she’d have a similar if not more ruthless point of view. She’d definitely take advantage of green mode if it even can down Skipper getting past her basic attacks.

Also voting Undyne for my reasons and FRA

 

[koopa3144]

I'll count the votes and vote Skipper myself for the following reasons:

• Skippers small size and agility should help him avoid Undyne's spears. He can do things like Jumping over 1 1/2 stories, dodge several blasts from a laser turret, and is comparable to the other penguins who can dodge several lasers from the Penguins' security system.
• Skipper is a master tactician with the ability to quickly improvise plans. He is also a master of stealth having preformed numerus stealth missions. Combine both these traits with the location being a zoo (an environment that skipper is very used to traversing) means that Skipper can easily find places to hide and plan a sneak attack on Undyne.
• Skipper also has a much higher LS, Extreme Pain Tolerance, and is able to outsmart Extraordinary Genius like Dr. Blowhole and Kowalski.

 

[Comiphorous]

I'll count the votes and vote Skipper myself for the following reasons:

• Skippers small size and agility should help him avoid Undyne's spears. He can do things like Jumping over 1 1/2 stories, dodge several blasts from a laser turret, and is comparable to the other penguins who can dodge several lasers from the Penguins' security system.

Agility means shit when you can't move.

• Skipper is a master tactician with the ability to quickly improvise plans. He is also a master of stealth having preformed numerus stealth missions. Combine both these traits with the location being a zoo (an environment that skipper is very used to traversing) means that Skipper can easily find places to hide and plan a sneak attack on Undyne.

Stealth means shit when he can't move to actually use it.

• Skipper also has a much higher LS, Extreme Pain Tolerance, and is able to outsmart Extraordinary Genius like Dr. Blowhole and Kowalski.

Tolerating pain to your physical body doesn't translate to your soul being damaged.

 

[koopa3144]

Agility means shit when you can't move.

Stealth means shit when he can't move to actually use it.

He can go for Stealth as soon as the fight starts, and agility's can be used to avoid Undyne's attacks and to go for cover when she turns his soul back.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

He can go for Stealth as soon as the fight starts, and agility's can be used to avoid Undyne's attacks and to go for cover when she turns his soul back.

Wouldn’t Skipper in-character with 0 prior knowledge automatically resort to fighting before using stealth?