Little Hashirama Upgrade and Tobirama Downgrade

[Meosos]

Hashirama: He is currently listed as 7-A in Base for fighting both Madara and Kurama. Shouldnt he be 6-C, since Madara is 6-C with perfect Susanoo already ?

Furthermore: Master Hand-to-Hand Combatant, Weapon Mastery and Chakra Manipulation should be added to his powers/abilities.

Tobirama: Listed as 7-B, possibly higher (his suiton is supposed to be much stronger than Mei's). She on the other hand is listed as 7-C. I guess Tobirama should be downgraded to at least 7-C, possibly higher.

I furthermore noticed that several pages are ... incomplete or a mess. Wasnt there a great revision coming ?

 

[Dark649]

Unite My Rice seems to work on it, but i also agree that all the profiles are a mess.

 

[Meosos]

Its the same with DC and Marvl by the way.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, but Matthew is working on them.

 

[Meosos]

Ok. Do you agree with the changes I proposed ?

 

[Dark649]

Maybe, but we cannot change them unless the revision will be over, which i hope it will not take forever.

 

[Meosos]

I heard that before. A few months ago or so, when I made a thread about Itachis AP, but nevermind.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Question; why does young Tobirama scale from Mei? Did they meet sometime before or something, and that Mei is actually an old hag with a youthful appearance?

 

[Lilmo33]

Another thing, why is Hashirama listed as being WEAKER than Kurama? Kurama is listed as being Multi-Continental while Hashirama is listed as Large Island level?

 

[Antvasima]

Gwynbleiddd was going to revise our messy Naruto statistics, but then he left. Then Lina Shields was going to handle it, but left as well. Now Unite My Rice will make an attempt when he finds the time.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Meosos

Mei was at City level before for destroying some meteorites or something in The Last, but it was removed. Guess it's because there was no calculation for it.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lilmo

Kurama himself only has Large Island level feats. He's only High 6-A when imbued with Naruto's Six Paths Chakra.

@Meosos

I was under the impression that Tobirama and Hashirama are relatively comparable given that Tobirama was able to kill Izuna, who was Madara's peer and thus a peer of Hashirama.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Izuna (to my knowledge) was never stated to be Madara's peer and Tobirama has never been portaid close to Hashirama (though this could likely be do to the Final Susanoo and the One Thousand Arm Golem)

 

[Reppuzan]

@Griffin

According to Itachi's story, Izuna and Madara were equals in every way. Granted, there's some interpretation given the historical inaccuracies (i.e. Madara didn't forcibly take Izuna's eyes), but this part is still notable.

Tobirama was also rivals with Izuna. Thus, logically, Tobirama would get the scaling, even if he's weaker in raw power.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well you know me, I mostly go of what's shown but I don't mind if they scale to much but Itachi's story only reaches them when they awakened their Mangekyo Sharingan but it skips over their battle with Hashirama and Tobirama. I'm just not keen on using Itachi's story considering Tobirama was never portaid on Hashirama's (base level) but I'll admit that doesn't mean he was vastly weaker.

I don't know, I'm just not 100% on scaling Tobirama to Base Hashirama, I don't mind it and it's really the only way to get stats for him. Again I don't mind it, I've just become a more see it to believe it kind of guy but I don't mind going by statements.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should the Hashirama and Tobirama profiles have their statistics modified?

 

[PaChi2]

Why does Tobirama scale to Mei anyway? He should scale to base Madara since they fought in the past.

 

[Reppuzan]

@PaChi2

That's what I was thinking.

Hashirama should scale to both Madara and Kurama and Tobirama to Hashirama, Madara, and Izuna.

Tobirama and Mei never met to the best of my knowledge, so they shouldn't be scaled to one another.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Wait, wait... Hold up!!!...

Madara is 6-C with Susanoo not normally... Hashirama in no way, shape or form battled Kurama or Madara (in Susanoo) in his base. Hashirama summoned that wood Golem and used that to fight Madara's Final Susanoo and then used Sage Mode to summon the Thousand Arm Golem to fight Madara's Final Susanoo covered Kurama.

Again Base Hashirama never traded blows or took any attack from Madara's Susanoo or Kurama.

So base Hashirama should not be upgraded and should actually scale to base Madara.

Hashirama can be 6-C with the Golem summon as that is what he used to fight Madara's Susanoo but his base should not be upgraded.

 

[PaChi2]

Base Hashirama = Base madara = Base Tobirama (only tobirama).

Sage Hashirama = Susanoo Madara/Kurama Madara.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Griffin and PaChi2

That sounds reasonable for the most part.

So in summary, Tobirama should be bumped up to Hashirama's level and some justifications shoudl be fixed for the characters involved here.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

If anything Hashirama's base should be downgraded considering that Base Madara is now 7-C and Hashirama is still 7-A.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Julian

Come to think of it, Madara doesn't have any justifications on his profile for his base tab.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Reppuzan

You are correct.

He did solo the 5 Kage though. Tsunade,Mei and Raikage being 7-C. So that should be a good justification.

But then again Onoki is Low 7-B...

 

[Meosos]

Base Hashi should be 6-C to, since he can already match Kurama and Madaras Perfect Susanoo.

 

[PaChi2]

I dont think we should use Edo Madara for a Base Madara reference, but revived base madara who could keep up with Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Dark649]

He had Sage Mode in order to defeat them, also the profiles will not get revised since any topic about Naruto revisions is against the Discussion Rules.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

PaChi2 has point. Not to mention he also had the Rinnegan when he defeated the five kage.


But should Revived Madara scale to Prime Madara? He did have the Rinnegan as well.

 

[PaChi2]

He had Sage Mode in order to defeat them, also the profiles will not get revised since any topic about Naruto revisions is against the Discussion Rules.

But was eyeless... The only thing Sage chakra bumped was his senses to react even without eyes. Sasuke could pierce through him and still got punched hard.

 

[Dark649]

Kabuto stated that Edo Madara has the traits of his best period of his life, but i think it's better to wait for someone who knows the entire verse before making the profiles more than a mess than before.

 

[Dark649]

But was eyeless... The only thing Sage chakra bumped was his senses to react even without eyes. Sasuke could pierce through him and still got punched hard.

Also that did not stopped him from using Susanoo and Rimbo with one eye to take down the Tailed Beats, the Rimbo was saw as an invisible copy of the latter.

 

[PaChi2]

Susanoo is a boost in his defense.

Rimbo clones didnt actually harm the beasts, just pushed them. They were taken by surprise. Naruto didnt take any damage from that attack. Also, remember that Madara had one eye when using Limbo.

I was talking about scaling base madara to the eyeless version.

 

[Dark649]

Naruto and Sasuke were weakened from the fight with Obito, and the Susanoo boost the attack too.

 

[PaChi2]

Naruto and Sasuke were weakened from the fight with Obito, and the Susanoo boost the attack too.

Madara didnt use the susanoo to attack the beasts afaik.

Susanoo madara has different stats from base madara.

Base madara being scalable to base sasuke and naruto isnt... farfetched when he did fight with them, and, even if they were weakened, they also got heavily outmatched.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Base Hashi should be 6-C to, since he can already match Kurama and Madaras Perfect Susanoo.

Where are you getting this?, To my knowledge Base Hashirama never fought Madara's Susanoo not did he trade blows or tank attacks from Kurama.

Give me a scan that shows this, cause I don't remember this at all. Hashirama used the Wood Golem to fight Madara's Susanoo.

 

[Meosos]

Base Hashi should be 6-C to, since he can already match Kurama and Madaras Perfect Susanoo.

Where are you getting this?, To my knowledge Base Hashirama never fought Madara's Susanoo not did he trade blows or tank attacks from Kurama.
Give me a scan that shows this, cause I don't remember this at all. Hashirama used the Wood Golem to fight Madara's Susanoo.

Yes, he did this already without Sage power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZRltydAJjY

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The only Sussano who has an High 6-C key is the Perfect Sussano which Hashirama had to summon the Golem to fight with.

 

[Meosos]

And ? He still summoned the Golem in Base, to fight Madaras Perfect Susanoo.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Which makes Hashirama High 6-C with the Golem but his regular base does not scale.

 

[Meosos]

And he is able to summon the golem in base. For his giant statue is sage power needed.