Link vs Isaac(Golden Sun)

[Garchomp777]

Both High 4-C, speed equal. Majoras mask Link is used, all gear and abilities

Link(Majora's Mask):
Isaac(Golden Sun): 1
Italian Plumber:

 

[King_Clab]

Voting Isaac via BFR

 

[Garchomp777]

I don't remember how Isaac does his BFR

 

[King_Clab]

I don't remember how Isaac does his BFR

Me ether

 

[Garchomp777]

Bump

 

[Garchomp777]

Bump

 

[XitSign]

The Fierce Deity Mask is...weird. It allegedly has all the 'merits' of the other masks, which would mean Stone Mask's perception invisibility might be active? We don't actually get to see the other masks abilities really come through the Fierce Deity Mask much so that's always been a strange statement, for example Majora is not at all affected in the boss fight so at least it can still perceive Link if it's true.

Isaac's kinda got enhanced senses, having hints at where 'Reveal' can unveil things that are hidden, but not sure if it counters the same way if the Stone Mask stuff can be considered legitimate. Ivan's "Reveal" is a lot more solid as an answer here to clear up that vagueness.

Also the main BFR is a Djinn that just knocks the opponent far enough out of the battle they're no longer a threat in game, don't think that will work due to range. Iris could in theory BFR by just yeeting the opponent into space, but that's getting creative, the move's never been used that way.

Also the AP is a bit of a disaster here. An Earth-Sun distance is in the 8 FOE, while Isaac is at least 1 FOE, likely higher, but to a totally unknown degree. They start in-range so Isaac likely gets one-shot to most things at current rating.

So Stone Mask perception being possibly a part of the Fierce Deity makes it unclear if Isaac can even fight properly, and the AP difference is pretty massive due to the lack of clearer feats for Isaac and the Golden Sun itself even if he can. And unequalizing speed is an absolute no-go because yikes on that blitz.

Fierce Deity, but to a level that feels mismatchy. If Stone Mask isn't valid, and Isaac's scaling chain with the Golden Sun is high enough that he's not one-shot, maybe we can have a hax debate, but otherwise this feels like Isaac has no options currently.

 

[Garchomp777]

The Fierce Deity Mask is...weird. It allegedly has all the 'merits' of the other masks, which would mean Stone Mask's perception invisibility might be active? We don't actually get to see the other masks abilities really come through the Fierce Deity Mask much so that's always been a strange statement, for example Majora is not at all affected in the boss fight so at least it can still perceive Link if it's true.

Isaac's kinda got enhanced senses, having hints at where 'Reveal' can unveil things that are hidden, but not sure if it counters the same way if the Stone Mask stuff can be considered legitimate. Ivan's "Reveal" is a lot more solid as an answer here to clear up that vagueness.

Also the main BFR is a Djinn that just knocks the opponent far enough out of the battle they're no longer a threat in game, don't think that will work due to range. Iris could in theory BFR by just yeeting the opponent into space, but that's getting creative, the move's never been used that way.

Also the AP is a bit of a disaster here. An Earth-Sun distance is in the 8 FOE, while Isaac is at least 1 FOE, likely higher, but to a totally unknown degree. They start in-range so Isaac likely gets one-shot to most things at current rating.

So Stone Mask perception being possibly a part of the Fierce Deity makes it unclear if Isaac can even fight properly, and the AP difference is pretty massive due to the lack of clearer feats for Isaac and the Golden Sun itself even if he can. And unequalizing speed is an absolute no-go because yikes on that blitz.

Fierce Deity, but to a level that feels mismatchy. If Stone Mask isn't valid, and Isaac's scaling chain with the Golden Sun is high enough that he's not one-shot, maybe we can have a hax debate, but otherwise this feels like Isaac has no options currently.

But death and power null

 

[XitSign]

This Link has some Death resistance. It's noted as not being a total resistance, I'll grant, but it's SOME resistance. Charon might do the trick since it's a multi-target Death Manip, but something like Condemn probably isn't enough since it appears to be both Soul and Death manip in that case, which the Link resists both.

Power Null can totally be an answer here, and Isaac has two djinn and a personal ability himself that can do it, so it'd be easy for him to do too and probably a logical choice to null your opponent ASAP, and Isaac's a gifted fighter who'd probably make a tactical call like that. Only issue is that Stone Mask thing. If the Fierce Deity Mask really does have Stone Mask's power, then it's entirely possible Isaac doesn't even know Link's there anymore and can't fight unless there's an exception I'm missing or the statement isn't whole reliable. If he can't know Link's there, he can't power null, and if he can't power null, he's going to probably one or two-shot and have no idea what's going on.

We MIGHT be able to talk Isaac wincons, if it wasn't for the possibility that Isaac is perception blind and will be killed in only a hit or two, meaning he can't even realize what's going on to attempt to fight back. If we're REALLY stretching it, maybe because of SBA Isaac realizes something isn't right when he can't find the opponent he starts knowing is there and busts out Charon as a giant Death Nuke for safety, but that's the ONLY wincon I can think of for Isaac here.

And at best that's incon, because either Isaac panics and drops the death nuke, or he dies to something he doesn't see coming in one hit.

 

[Garchomp777]

Hm okay
I actually have a CRT coming up, golden sun has some extremely blatant conceptual manipulation

 

[XitSign]

Interesting, perhaps some of the information might make this fight workable, but right now...I feel like it's a stretch to give Isaac a win-con. Even my Charon example feels weird to list as a possibiliy.

For the time being, I'd call mismatch. Maybe one day it can be revisted with some GS refining.

 

[Garchomp777]

Actually yeah, I think I'll do the GS revision first before making battles
If a mod sees this, you can close it