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Limits of Durability Negation and Hax...

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SchutzenDunkelZiel1217

SchutzenDunkelZiel1217

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So yeah I've just been wondering about, as the thread title says, the limits of Durability Negation and Hax. Throughout fiction we see a lot of characters which have powers capable of ignoring conventional durability so my question here is to what level are they capable of ignoring durability. Characters of a lower tier are capable of affecting or perhaps even killing characters of a higher tier with this ability.

But then would a 9-C character who has Durability Negation be capable of harming or killing a 4-B character when it's never been shown that the character can affect a being of a level that high...

For example would Lille Barro be capable of punching a hole through Vegeta's head if Vegeta acts arrogant and tires to tank the X-Axis... I don't really know what would happen but I don't really think Vegeta would get hurt or killed... just my opinion...

This is the question...

And I've also been meaning to propose this: What are everyone's thoughts on rating hax based upon showings inside it own verse i.e if a hax has been shown to affect a person who is Tier 3-C at the very most and has never been shown affecting anyone stronger then it should be limited to affecting characters at Tier 3-C and nothing more... I don't know if this has already been brought up if it has could anyone tell me what the verdict of it was...

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this...
 
Mmhm. I don't like the idea to be honest. Otherwise there is no point in it being hax at all.

Things like people being able to hit ootherther intangible people just because they are of a higher tier sounds silly
 
I don't see why powerful hax would be incapable of affecting a much stronger character if that character has no resistance. Things like powerful molecular manipulation, spatial erasure, soul/mind manipulation, etc. should definitely be able to affect anyone that has not shown resistance to that type of hax, regardless of how strong they are. Until you start getting to higher-dimensional beings, obviously, but below that?

Besides, for most forms of hax and durability negation, limiting them to their highest showings makes them basically useless.

Also, what Aizen said.
 
@ Aizen: No that's not the kind of hax I'm talking about...

The proposal only applies to hax regarding AP and DC... doesn't affect intangibility, invisibility, etc...

I'll list them out...
 
Yeah I see what you are going for, but I still disagree regardless. I know of a building level reality warper, logically he should be able to defeat chars above him in tiering. Assuming he couldn't would sound equally silly

If we assume it only works on those of the same tier it may as well not be considered hax at all
 
But then would a 9-C character who has Durability Negation be capable of harming or killing a 4-B character when it's never been shown that the character can affect a being of a level that high...

Why not? If 4-B does not have resistances - it's his own problem only.
 
Not really.

Any resistance Yhwach would have to Lille's ability is because he's Yhwach, not because he's stronger.

Vegeta has only shown resistance to mind manipulation. There's nothing stopping from Lille using his durability negating ability to shoot a hole in Vegeta's face.
 
Thing is haxxes like bypassing conventional dura has no limits in the first place.Strenght limits are only applicable to raw power not hax that's the whole point
 
@Prom: Lille's Durability Negation hasn't shown a limit as far as I'm aware but what you're saying is that it would be capable of affecting anyone on a 3 dimensional level which doesn't have resistance to it. That's is ridiculous and is NLF to consider it like this...

@Akuto: Disregarding hax for raw power I never said that but hax itself (unless it's conceptual or beyond 3-D) should logically work on some form of energy... Taking Bleach for example. Would Lille's ability work on someone who had far more Reiatsu and control over that power because if I remember correctly "A battle between spiritual beings was a battle between reiatsu"...
 
No, it's not. Durability negation negates durability by definition. Limiting its effect makes it no longer durability negation, which is absurd and stupid. Someone with good atomic manipulation - be they 10-B or 3-B - should still be able to turn Vegeta into a pellet of dog food with no difficulty whatsoever if they get the chance. Someone with good mind manipulation - be they 10-B or 3-B - should still be able to absolutely ruin Vegeta's mental state. Etcetera.

Seriously, this is a not a good discussion to have. It's going to go badly. Really badly.
 
@Akuto: Yes and when comparing fictions... Energy is usually equalized and what we consider of energy is raw DC and we all know in terms of DC Vegeta >>> Lille...
 
Are we simply supposed to disregard hax because the other char can bust something more ? That's Dbz tard logic tbh I'm sorry but it's just ridiculous
 
1. Aizen said a battle between shinigami, can overpower abilities not quincy.

2.The x axis was explained to be "power" from Yhwach and not reiatsu powered.

And yeah. This convo is not going to go well.
 
@Aizen: For the first thing I don't quite remember properly...

It's not reiatsu powered eh... I haven't seen this but even still it has to be powered by some form of spiritual energy... Also I'm sure you agree that it wouldn't affect Transcendents...

@Akuto: I never said to disregard anything... just to base thing upon their showings...

Also everyone is saying that Durability Negation can affect anyone who doesn't have resistance to it and I say this is NLF as nothing proves it... Again I'll ask just because an ability works on one character what proves that it would work on a far superior character...

Also this is a messy conversation which is exactly why I'm having it... Things like this have to be sorted out...
 
It's not giving a character resistance to hax off of no basis is wack af bypassing dura shouldn't be limited otherwise it's no longer bypassing dura again it's the chars own prob if he has shown no such resistance
 
^For the above question, the answer is no, it doesn't have anything to proves. But if it doesn't have anything to disprove it either, then it's a case of NLF.

Say though, if you said about ignoring conventional durability, that would mean that anything that made out of electromagnetic (or sometime including even universal matter, like dark matter) matter could be affected by that. Then that mean unless that high-tiered character is made out of something else, this should ignore it.
 
Durability Negation literally means "The ability that allows to damage the target, regardless of its durability."

The point of hax is to be able to affect your opponent regardless of their physical capabilities.

So unless the opponent is a higher dimensional being than the DN user or has resistance to this type of hax, it WILL work.
 
^Yes, full yes about that.

One way you could think about it is assuming the universe is a 2-C (or 1-C) character that umbrella everything that's in it domain and affected it (granted, it's not so uncommon to have that type of character). Say you have a character that could have bypass one of it law (in this case, it's the dura negate) that everyone followed. So, no matter how powerful the opponent is, if it still abide by that, then the character that could affect one of the law of higher-tier than it will still bypass it.
 
And that is NLF... Also the second part of that

"A good example of ignoring the strength would be a laser, which at negligible attack potency, easily cuts through thick steel sheets."

The laser cuts the thick steel sheets only because it produces energy... Energy required to cut the steel sheets and energy produced by the laser to cut through the steel sheets would be almost equal...

@Akuto: 3-D level Durability Negation can't affect 4-D Level characters... so it's only bypassing durability with a limit...

@Andykhang: And stronger characters are the ones who made that law in that case... And here it's assuming that the character's DN can affect characters which are even stronger than the ones that made that law...
 
Well I see that you've messaged DarkLK and Antvasima about this... well leats wait for their opinion then...

But DN working on characters of a much higher Tier... will always be NLF unless it's conceptual in nature...
 
SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
@Andykhang: And stronger characters are the ones who made that law in that case... And here it's assuming that the character's DN can affect characters which are even stronger than the ones that made that law...
Click to expand...
No, I doesn't assume that. That would be like saying someone could overthrow the government overnight just because they're an exception to one particular thing.
 
No-Limit Fallacy, or known more as Proof by Example. Generally, it's like this:

Saitama could one-punch anyone.

The One Above All is anyone.

Therefor, he could one-punch The One Above All. (a tier 0, mind you)

Edit: This is not really clear as a NLF, so here's a more general one:


3 is odd, and it is a prime number.

13 is odd, and it is a prime number.

97 is odd, and it is a prime number.

Therefore, all odd numbers are prime numbers.
 
This thread is not going to go anywhere, and wherever it goes is going to be horrible. Say goodbye to the thread.
 
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