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How does Limbo deal with her passives.
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Limbo vs Sacred Eclipse Battle for 1st Non Smurf Low 7-C
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
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As I said it will accomplish nothing. Limbo will still be manually controlled by the operator.
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How it can be controlled by the Operator when it is also being controlled by SE?
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It can't be controlled by SE though. It literally cannot dictate its own moves. Operator controls it through body puppetry.
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SE would still have its mind under her grasp, so Limbo won't be able to move.
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He literally lacks that though. It's literally the same as saying you mind hax a rock so I can't throw it at you.
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It's more like saying I mind hax your control remote car so you can't control it remotely. Or which is the proof that Limbo being controlled like that will stop him from being controlled by mindhax? Has it ever happened in-game?
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The one time they tried to **** with the warframes mind it was a weird case because it overloaded the operator's system (back before he used transference). But the warframe itself is an object and i still don't see how you mind hax objects and actually accomplish anything
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I mean, I thought I explained that it still resists mindhax that affects robots and it would on a decent scale, what's special about SE's mindhax?Ionliosite said:
Limbo has never been directly controlled, but Kuva was able to directly reach the Operator but that's because of the substance at play was able to breach the gap between the two, and the Operator ended up resisting it.
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Abstractions
Limbo has never been directly controlled, but Kuva was able to directly reach the Operator but that's because of the substance at play was able to breach the gap between the two, and the Operator ended up resisting it.
That was before transference
Limbo has never been directly controlled, but Kuva was able to directly reach the Operator but that's because of the substance at play was able to breach the gap between the two, and the Operator ended up resisting it.
That was before transference
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Sacred Eclipse's mindhax works on people who has resistance to mindhax that works on people who have resistance to Yggdrasil's mindhax, so she has a scaling chain. And not to mention Yggdrasil's mindhax works on people who have resistance to mindhax from Iblis which is on the scale of the 12000.
@Earl. By mindhaxing the object you just make it to make nothing and win via incap because your opponent can't do anything to you.
@Earl. By mindhaxing the object you just make it to make nothing and win via incap because your opponent can't do anything to you.
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I mean, it's hard to scale either of what Limbo can sustain operates at, the Neural Sentry mindhaxes whatever present within the towers which in survival missions this can extend to 1000s of enemies, but there of course is multiple maps this occurs on at a time. The missions are endless, so it's really hard to gauge.Ionliosite said:
The void is a sub-dimensional space present within the Origin System but is presumably universal, it just effects those that access it, so again, hard to gauge.
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No ion seriously i do not see how being how mind haxing a puppet will prevent it from moving when it does not have a computer like system (brain), consciousness, nor can it direct its own movements. There is a reason we accept "immunity to mind hax" for him. It's honestly similar to saying "soul haxed a dude who has no soul in the first place".
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Firephoenixearl said:
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Warframes do have a neural center, they just lack will. There were times when transference was used on beings with will (notably warframes with their will intact - proto warframes and umbra), but was finite, eventually the target could break free. In a fight it could correct impulses, BUT outside control seems to be something the operator cannot handle. Mutalist Alad V, Nyx and Revenant can all take over warframes without diminished effects.
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Umbra is not the best example. It is strictly the only warframe that has a will. But when did the operator show to be unable to deal with outside control?
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The three instances I listed - Mutalist Alad V boss fight (control until broken, PIS when solo), and warframe abilities (Mind Control -touché-, Chaos -not sure if applicable- and Enthrall). I don't recall other abilities with control, but there might be more.
(And yes, I wouldn't call Umbra the same as the other warframes, he was just an example of the operator forcing transference on it)
(And yes, I wouldn't call Umbra the same as the other warframes, he was just an example of the operator forcing transference on it)
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Warframe abilities aren't really something to be used as an argument. Similar to how the warframes are called "souless" throughout the series, but you can use soul punch on them in pvp. PvP is just a non canon part of the gameplay designed for fun, not to stay true to the lore.
On Alad V, been a long time since i played Mutalist Alad V when does he control a warframe that's already in the operator's possession?
On Alad V, been a long time since i played Mutalist Alad V when does he control a warframe that's already in the operator's possession?
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Any time you fight him non-solo, it is a mandatory move he always does. He throws the collar that normally makes him invulnerable, which homes in on a target, taking control upon reaching it. From the moment of throwing the collar he is vulnerable, and will return the collar when dealt enough damage, even if it happens before hitting the target. When under the effect of the collar the warframe will act as an enemy specter, targeting Tenno and considering Infested as ally. Nyx can Mind Control/Chaos this warframe to make it attack infested/everyone instead.
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I don't exactly remember if there was a mechanic behind how Alad V can control the warframes, but even then, it is just stronger than the operator, not that the operator has a hard time controling things that are already controled.
As for Nyx Mind Control/Chaos as i said, that's not part of the lore, that's just game mechanics since abilities are supposed to work on anything that's supposedly an enemy and since the warframes become a non enemy then it makes them vulnerable to warframe abilities, just game mechanics as i said similar to how you can soul punch warframes.
As for Nyx Mind Control/Chaos as i said, that's not part of the lore, that's just game mechanics since abilities are supposed to work on anything that's supposedly an enemy and since the warframes become a non enemy then it makes them vulnerable to warframe abilities, just game mechanics as i said similar to how you can soul punch warframes.
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Nekros is supposed to be battling Sentients, so soul affecting powers probably go off energy instead of the conventional interpretation, but that is pretty much irrelevant for this. The point is, warframes have a brain that gathers neural inputs and assigns commands to the body, and it is used by the operator, so someone can contend for it at the very least. I would even go as far as to say that someone can control the operator during (strictly post war within) transference, and not just kick them out, since they are physically (or more like space-magically) inside the warframe.
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Soul Punch by definition and description punches off people's soul. You'd need a strong argument to disregard the description itself.
I would have to disagree with the warframes having mind or consciousness as it goes directly against the idea of what warframes are. They are built in a lab from gathering parts like you would build a car, not really something that would have a biological mind.
As for transferrence they're not physically or space magically. They're using void energy projection to move the warframes, which is made pretty apparent from the fact that the operator sits on his chair while the warframe moves around. During the war within what happened happened only because this was pre transference system when the operator was using the system, and what happened wasn't "they affected the warframe directly" they just overloaded the system which lead to system failure and the warframe disconnecting from the operator. Something that won't happen with transferrence.
I would have to disagree with the warframes having mind or consciousness as it goes directly against the idea of what warframes are. They are built in a lab from gathering parts like you would build a car, not really something that would have a biological mind.
As for transferrence they're not physically or space magically. They're using void energy projection to move the warframes, which is made pretty apparent from the fact that the operator sits on his chair while the warframe moves around. During the war within what happened happened only because this was pre transference system when the operator was using the system, and what happened wasn't "they affected the warframe directly" they just overloaded the system which lead to system failure and the warframe disconnecting from the operator. Something that won't happen with transferrence.
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They don't have a will/mind/consciousness, they have a brain that can move the body. Warframes include neuroptics, which means they have a nervous system. They are infested copies of transformed humans, more like puzzles than cars, they need parts like that to function.
That footnote about space magic *was* void energy, it is the thing that makes operators do impossible things, and functions more like magic (as in not understood, it just does certain things) than science. In the war within the operator leaves the ship, travels to the warframe, enters it via transference, then travels back with it to sit in a chair that doesn't work anymore, and from that point onwards can leave the warframe physically. Wherein before they had a link set-up between the chair and the warframe that could be broken, and the best the operator could do was transcendence, which is only a spectral (maybe void, but spectral is the word used and it doesn't do void damage - possibly a mechanical inconsistency) form, not a physical one.
That footnote about space magic *was* void energy, it is the thing that makes operators do impossible things, and functions more like magic (as in not understood, it just does certain things) than science. In the war within the operator leaves the ship, travels to the warframe, enters it via transference, then travels back with it to sit in a chair that doesn't work anymore, and from that point onwards can leave the warframe physically. Wherein before they had a link set-up between the chair and the warframe that could be broken, and the best the operator could do was transcendence, which is only a spectral (maybe void, but spectral is the word used and it doesn't do void damage - possibly a mechanical inconsistency) form, not a physical one.
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I mean it's still a possibility since Neuroptics doesn't even exist as an english word as far as im aware and previously that was just "helmet".
Yeah sure, but the "physically" was misleading as they're clearly not physically inside the warframe. The war within is just a quest, after it the operator is seen in the chair operating the warframe. As for manifesting physically it's more manifesting void energy given how they materialize and dematerialize as pure void energy.
Yeah sure, but the "physically" was misleading as they're clearly not physically inside the warframe. The war within is just a quest, after it the operator is seen in the chair operating the warframe. As for manifesting physically it's more manifesting void energy given how they materialize and dematerialize as pure void energy.
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We haven't even argued anything beyond passives, so, nothing.
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No vote count. Limbo should stomp rather easily, but the operator may or may not count as outside help. So we're waiting for the forum move to make a warframe CRT.
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And yeah, physically might have been out of the blue like that, my understanding is that an operator can freely change between a physical and void energy (magic 
) based body after learning proper transference - and therefore can enter a warframe without leaving anything physical behind, as seen in the War Within.
) based body after learning proper transference - and therefore can enter a warframe without leaving anything physical behind, as seen in the War Within.
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@IceBen
I could continue arguing and so can you, but i'll spare us the debate. But to close this whole topic i'll say:
Most of the things you and i are saying remain as possibilities due to the nature of warframe. A game where the developers just keep of coming up with new stuff every day. It's pretty much impossible to have complete consistency. That is why it is just dependent on the point of view and what we value more and what we value less in comparison in terms of lore (what feats, statements etc). So nothing's really set in stone. im not gonna say you're wrong, you just view it differently and your point of view, same as mine, is not baseless.
So i'd like to leave it at that for now. We can just debate endlessly but to no avail. Trust me i've tried similar debates regarding warframes before on this site. There is no truth to reveal just a waste of time after a certain point.
I could continue arguing and so can you, but i'll spare us the debate. But to close this whole topic i'll say:
Most of the things you and i are saying remain as possibilities due to the nature of warframe. A game where the developers just keep of coming up with new stuff every day. It's pretty much impossible to have complete consistency. That is why it is just dependent on the point of view and what we value more and what we value less in comparison in terms of lore (what feats, statements etc). So nothing's really set in stone. im not gonna say you're wrong, you just view it differently and your point of view, same as mine, is not baseless.
So i'd like to leave it at that for now. We can just debate endlessly but to no avail. Trust me i've tried similar debates regarding warframes before on this site. There is no truth to reveal just a waste of time after a certain point.
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