Lille Barro Weaknesses Reevaluation and Rework

[Deceived3596]

Lille Barro has several weaknesses in his Weaknesses section of his profile I disagree with, and believe should be removed as they either presume a weakness that is never stated or shown to be true, or just blatantly make things up.

So let's delve into them:

After achieving Vollständig, while he is immune to most attacks, he is not immune to reality manipulation attacks, such as Shunsui Kyōraku's Bankai, which caused a disease to appear on his body, and made him share his wounds.

In this explanation, it's assumed that Reality Manipulating abilities like Shunsui's Bankai, by its nature alone of being a Reality Warping ability, is the reason why his Bankai could affect Lille passed his Intangibility; and this is extrapolated to any other Reality Warping ability because of it. I fundamentally disagree with this since it presumes Reality Warping in itself, without further qualities, can bypass Lille's Intangibility. Not that Shunsui's specific application of Reality Warping is the cause of it. We're shown in Lille's fight against Shunsui that his Shikai, which directly warps reality by bringing forth children's games and provides them actualized power in reality, is completely useless against Lille's X-Axis. So we have direct evidence of the contrary to this interpretation, and as such, we should reformulate that explanation to match this fact.

In his true Quincy: Vollständig form, his body reflects light strong enough that if it's reflected towards him, it can leave himself blind for a short period of time.

Lille never comments on the brightness of his light causing himself blindness. What is stated is that, because of the reflective nature of Shinken Hakkyōken, Lille can't perceive the blade of it because of his light obfuscating its form, which is significantly different compared to what is explained on the profile. I can see why someone would intuitively believe that if the light reflected off the sword was bright enough to cover its blade, it would temporarily blind him because it was reflected back into his eyes. However, I reject this intuition because nothing implies, outside of speculation, that he is being blinded by the light. His eyes just didn't like the sight of the light, so he commented on him not liking it. Simply as.

With this, I believe the initial explanation should be reformulated to conform with what is more likely to be true, while the second one should either be completely removed or a more accurate explanation should be given in its place.

Voting:

Agree - @LordTracer, @TheRustyOne (Point 2), @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Damage3245

Disagree - @TheRustyOne (Point 1)

Neutral -

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree

 

[LordTracer]

Seems pretty simple to me. I agree with the OP.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Shunsui doesn't have reality manipulation in his Shikai, so your first point doesn't make sense to me.

Turning children's game into reality isn't reality manipulation just going by that statement, he needs to perform feats of reality manipulation, that's statement is just fancy talk. The profile only list it as Law Manipulation, it forces people to play the game and gives him certain powers. Going by that I don't see reality manipulation at all.

You need to explain and provide evidence that Shunsui does have Reality Manipulation in Shikai if you want this part to go through.

Your second point seems fine to me.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Agreed.

 

[Deceived3596]

Shunsui doesn't have reality manipulation in his Shikai, so your first point doesn't make sense to me.

Turning children's game into reality isn't reality manipulation just going by that statement, he needs to perform feats of reality manipulation, that's statement is just fancy talk. The profile only list it as Law Manipulation, it forces people to play the game and gives him certain powers. Going by that I don't see reality manipulation at all.

You need to explain and provide evidence that Shunsui does have Reality Manipulation in Shikai if you want this part to go through.

I don't believe Shunsui not possessing Reality Warping on his profile means he isn't manipulating reality with his ability to some extent. In the description we are given about the ability, he actualizes rules with his Spiritual Pressure, into reality, and forces his opponent to abide by them. While he isn't necessarily warping reality, depending how you semantically define "warping." I would say he's manipulating reality by doing this; which is described as a weakness of Lille's ability.

Even without the aforementioned explanation, I still disagree with the concrete wording used by the section. If it's just assumed that reality manipulating abilities work on Lille because it conclusively worked on him, without any explicit or implicit statements implying it's specifically because of the sheer nature of reality manipulation that Lille was affected. I could equally assume it's Shunsui's specific brand of it that can affect Lille, not anything else inherently, and have that claim be similarly likely as they both derive their conclusion off ultimately unsubstantiated assumptions.

Basically; you can disagree with the argument gave in the OP, but I believe my stance still remains true regardless of that as the description given still contains within it a presumed conclusion that I logically disprove of using, on the basis of it being fallaciously reached.

Your second point seems fine to me.

Alright.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't believe Shunsui not possessing Reality Warping on his profile means he isn't manipulating reality with his ability to some extent. In the description we are given about the ability, he actualizes rules with his Spiritual Pressure, into reality, and forces his opponent to abide by them. While he isn't necessarily warping reality, depending how you semantically define "warping." I would say he's manipulating reality by doing this; which is described as a weakness of Lille's ability.

Even without the aforementioned explanation, I still disagree with the concrete wording used by the section. If it's just assumed that reality manipulating abilities work on Lille because it conclusively worked on him, without any explicit or implicit statements implying it's specifically because of the sheer nature of reality manipulation that Lille was affected. I could equally assume it's Shunsui's specific brand of it that can affect Lille, not anything else inherently, and have that claim be similarly likely as they both derive their conclusion off ultimately unsubstantiated assumptions.

Basically; you can disagree with the argument gave in the OP, but I believe my stance still remains true regardless of that as the description given still contains within it a presumed conclusion that I logically disprove of using, on the basis of it being fallaciously reached.


Alright.

Pretty much agreed. Even if we want to be uber anal about it, it's still a massive extrapolation to suggest any form of reality warping can affect Lille. The abilities themselves should need to show the capability to affect him.

 

[Deceived3596]

Seems pretty simple to me. I agree with the OP.

Pretty much agreed. Even if we want to be uber anal about it, it's still a massive extrapolation to suggest any form of reality warping can affect Lille. The abilities themselves should need to show the capability to affect him.

Before continuing on, I do need further clarification on the first point. I unintentionally created two contradictory claims for the first weakness. I said we should remove both in the first sentence of the OP, but the next argument / conclusive sentence claims we should reformulate the weaknesses, which implies we should keep it but just reformat it.

Personally, I believe we should remove both outright after further consideration, but I want direct confirmation from the both of you on this before I do anything, so I won't be applying something improperly evaluated.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm fine with both being removed. Someone being potentially vulnerable to a Reality Warping attack doesn't need to be specifically noted on their profile; Reality Warping comes in all strengths and variations.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm fine with both being removed. Someone being potentially vulnerable to a Reality Warping attack doesn't need to be specifically noted on their profile; Reality Warping comes in all strengths and variations.

Agreed