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Wouldn't that be nerfing the character? Also then couldn't I say Madoka can't even fight Leviamon since he isn't a witch? I don't understand why they suddenly have to be apart of the same multiverse. Is there a rule for that?
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Leviamon vs Madoka Kaname
- Thread starter Kaltias
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It would nerf both actually, as Akuma Homura would more than likely also interfere in this fight. Actually, that's not entirely true, Madoka comes out only if the enemy is a witch or if the mankind is in danger, which it is. Of course, verse equalization would also get rid of this. Ye, Standard Battle Assumptions actually, we try to keep it as equal as possible.
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Once again I find that complete and utter bullshit. I will be blunt. It would make no sense for Leviamon to be tied to another Multiverse even with verse equalization unlessbyou want to say the other Demon Lords are a thing as well as they come in a set in which once again hammers home Lucemon. Not to mention this is also an Avatar of the real Leviamon.
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I mean, if we didn't do this, base YHVH would be unable to kill Low 2-C Leviamon because he'd have to beat two Low 1-C characters.
It's like removing from Reinhard his immortality reliant on a 1-A or saying that Kharn won't be resurrected by Khorne ASAP when dying, because Khorne is 1-B.
Hell, if you want to be technical, this also makes Madoka unkillable because they are both outside of their multiverses and they don't have High multiversal+ range
It's like removing from Reinhard his immortality reliant on a 1-A or saying that Kharn won't be resurrected by Khorne ASAP when dying, because Khorne is 1-B.
Hell, if you want to be technical, this also makes Madoka unkillable because they are both outside of their multiverses and they don't have High multiversal+ range
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But do we not allow them to keep the immortality?
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^Yeah Dragon, to be blunt, what you're suggesting would essentially make every battle a verse vs verse battle rather than a character vs character one, rendering the entire system a complete mess
We do allow them to keep the immortality, it just won't be affected by outside characters.
We do allow them to keep the immortality, it just won't be affected by outside characters.
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Well then I can just say Leviamon would just create more wickedness making her reset pointless.
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In the middle of the reset, is that even possible?
That's also ignoring the fact that his weakness would be exploited at this time, making him very weak and easy to kill.
Or the fact that it would mean he knows about Madoka's concept manipulation's multiverse resetting side effect.
That's also ignoring the fact that his weakness would be exploited at this time, making him very weak and easy to kill.
Or the fact that it would mean he knows about Madoka's concept manipulation's multiverse resetting side effect.
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Also how does a multiversal reset even affect Leviamon at all? She still resetting the universe meaning it comes back. Also the Karma will go for her true self as it is a conceptual attack.
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Their concept manipulations probably null each other if one create and the other destroy at the same time. They kinda keep doing this forever I think, because neither can really stop it. One dies if he stops and the other can't really do too much excluding this.
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It won't effect Leviamon directly as I've stated, it will affect the amount of wickedness in the multiverse which vice versa would affect him.
As far as I'm aware, it would affect the physical manifestation conceptually, but not her true self. Now if he was affecting the concept of the law of cycles directly, then it would, but Madoka fights via physical manifestation, hence the problem.
@Kalitas, except that Madoka's concept manipulation forces the multiverse to reset as a side-effect, weakening Leviamon (read his weakness)
As far as I'm aware, it would affect the physical manifestation conceptually, but not her true self. Now if he was affecting the concept of the law of cycles directly, then it would, but Madoka fights via physical manifestation, hence the problem.
@Kalitas, except that Madoka's concept manipulation forces the multiverse to reset as a side-effect, weakening Leviamon (read his weakness)
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You seem to think that this is the first time the Leviamon has been around a reset. Yggdrasil has reset it countless times. Heck in Cyber Sleuth Mother Eater literally reset the universe and all the concepts along with wickedness(That was Suedo's entire goal) yet the Demon Lords were no worse for wear. This reset will do nothing. Matter of fact that weakness has never been stated even in the official databook. Nothing implies this.
The strongest monster existing in the Digital World, it is called the "Devil Beast" out of terror of the exceedingly mighty power that this monster possesses and is counted as one of the "Seven Great Demon Lords". This extensive monster, said to possess gigantic jaws which could guzzle down even the Digital World, is reported to sleep in the depths of the Net Ocean nearest to the Dark Area, and if it is awakened, it will despise any Digimon at the top, and will flee even Angel Digimon, much less other Demon Lord Digimon. However, as the existence of the limits on Digimon are decoded, its own appears similar to nothingness, and it is said that it builds the foundation for the existence of wickedness in the Digital World.
Even then Leviamon can still just create more wickedness once the Multiversal Reset is over. He'll just create more simple as that making this inconclusive.
Also I don't see why Karma would not hit True Madoka.
The strongest monster existing in the Digital World, it is called the "Devil Beast" out of terror of the exceedingly mighty power that this monster possesses and is counted as one of the "Seven Great Demon Lords". This extensive monster, said to possess gigantic jaws which could guzzle down even the Digital World, is reported to sleep in the depths of the Net Ocean nearest to the Dark Area, and if it is awakened, it will despise any Digimon at the top, and will flee even Angel Digimon, much less other Demon Lord Digimon. However, as the existence of the limits on Digimon are decoded, its own appears similar to nothingness, and it is said that it builds the foundation for the existence of wickedness in the Digital World.
Even then Leviamon can still just create more wickedness once the Multiversal Reset is over. He'll just create more simple as that making this inconclusive.
Also I don't see why Karma would not hit True Madoka.
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Have you not read what I've been stating? I know it won't have a direct impact, I'm pointing out that his immortality type is dependent on evil, which would be affected.
Ok
Without his immortality, he can be killed by Madoka during the reset due to her concept manipulation.
Let me give you an analogy. Imagine a person has cloning abilities, one clone gets hit by karma, does the main guy die? A physical manifestation is like that, only except the manifestation is not necessarily like the concept itself.
Ok
Without his immortality, he can be killed by Madoka during the reset due to her concept manipulation.
Let me give you an analogy. Imagine a person has cloning abilities, one clone gets hit by karma, does the main guy die? A physical manifestation is like that, only except the manifestation is not necessarily like the concept itself.
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Or he can craete more wickedness at the same time and be perfectly fine. Nothing is stopping him from doing so.
You assume Karma will go for the clone. It will go for the true source. It will go for the true concept itself as itself is conceptual. This is from the true Leviamon who is infinitely stronger than this avatar. Even Verse Equalization will not change that. Matter of fact he can just conceptually effect her as she does not resist Conceptual Manipulation. Thus making this inconclusive.
You assume Karma will go for the clone. It will go for the true source. It will go for the true concept itself as itself is conceptual. This is from the true Leviamon who is infinitely stronger than this avatar. Even Verse Equalization will not change that. Matter of fact he can just conceptually effect her as she does not resist Conceptual Manipulation. Thus making this inconclusive.
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That would be quite bad for him since the multiverse would constantly reset due to her own concept manipulation, so he would constantly be bombarded by concept manipulation while he would be trying to keep himself immortal, ironically leading him to his death...
Why would the karma go for the true source? Because it is conceptual? What on earth are you talking about? By that logic, Madoka's concept manipulation would kill Sayaka, due her connection to Oktavia or one of Darkseid's avatars leading to True Darkseid's death.
Actually, about that concept manipulation, does he have the ability to destroy them and alter them, or only create them? Because from what I see on his page, he has only created concepts.
Why would the karma go for the true source? Because it is conceptual? What on earth are you talking about? By that logic, Madoka's concept manipulation would kill Sayaka, due her connection to Oktavia or one of Darkseid's avatars leading to True Darkseid's death.
Actually, about that concept manipulation, does he have the ability to destroy them and alter them, or only create them? Because from what I see on his page, he has only created concepts.
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Ah I see, here let me get another example.
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Creation and destruction as he can literally swallow everything in the Digital World in which in this case would include concepts as Reppu stated above.
What are you talking about? Clones? Mewtwo and Snake are their own being. You did not specify the type of clones you were talking about like at all so you can't assume the I knew what you meant. I thought you meant something like a shadow clone or duplication. Your example falls short
So would Madoka. Her resets aren't any different from the likes of Yggdrasil or Mother Eater. You've been saying reset without explaining how useful it would be. You also assume one hit from Madoka will kill him in which it won't. All you say is that she will continue to reset it. So both are in the same boat. Inconclusive and I stand by that.
What are you talking about? Clones? Mewtwo and Snake are their own being. You did not specify the type of clones you were talking about like at all so you can't assume the I knew what you meant. I thought you meant something like a shadow clone or duplication. Your example falls short
So would Madoka. Her resets aren't any different from the likes of Yggdrasil or Mother Eater. You've been saying reset without explaining how useful it would be. You also assume one hit from Madoka will kill him in which it won't. All you say is that she will continue to reset it. So both are in the same boat. Inconclusive and I stand by that.
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I'm assuming they specifically the concepts being destroyed? Because you can destroy the multiverse without destroying the concepts.
^Read new version.
I have explained how it would be useful. Look at what his immortality is dependent on.
No, it won't for the same reason why she needs to get rid of his immortality in the first place, her immortality type 8 and 9 would make it so her physical manifestation may be conceptually destroyed, but not her true existence.
And again, pointing out range. You say its outdated but it was updated a month ago. And even then you haven't shown an example of even multi-universal range.
^Read new version.
I have explained how it would be useful. Look at what his immortality is dependent on.
No, it won't for the same reason why she needs to get rid of his immortality in the first place, her immortality type 8 and 9 would make it so her physical manifestation may be conceptually destroyed, but not her true existence.
And again, pointing out range. You say its outdated but it was updated a month ago. And even then you haven't shown an example of even multi-universal range.
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He could just seal her as well.
Karma itself is Multi-Universal. Defeating her avatar here should defeat her as well. Tthe Demon Lords' power itself is Multi-Universal. Anything done to him, a proportionate amount of karma will be dealt to Madoka. Is this an avatar or Madoka herself. If it is Madoka's avatar then I can use your same arguments for Leviamon and True Leviamon.
Karma itself is Multi-Universal. Defeating her avatar here should defeat her as well. Tthe Demon Lords' power itself is Multi-Universal. Anything done to him, a proportionate amount of karma will be dealt to Madoka. Is this an avatar or Madoka herself. If it is Madoka's avatar then I can use your same arguments for Leviamon and True Leviamon.
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How? It's not on his page?
Ah, thats... that's neat. She has multiversal+, making karma not useful.
From what I see, this is Leviamon for Madoka herself, which uses a physical manifestation to fight, so no.
Ah, thats... that's neat. She has multiversal+, making karma not useful.
From what I see, this is Leviamon for Madoka herself, which uses a physical manifestation to fight, so no.
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Neither is Madoka's Type 9 Immortality.
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Ok. I'll drop that argument now, as whether or not it is useful doesn't matter, as her range advantage alone makes her win at this point.
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Has she in character abused that range.
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When she fought Ult. Kriemhild Gretchen, she kept her distance from her range, so yes and no, she won't completely use it, just enough to keep Leviamon from even noticing her.
Or literally in all her fights as an MG.
Of course, Ult.Kriemhild was only 5-B, so against an enemy that could potentially hurt her, she would likely use more safety measurements.
Or literally in all her fights as an MG.
Of course, Ult.Kriemhild was only 5-B, so against an enemy that could potentially hurt her, she would likely use more safety measurements.
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But then Karma once again is a factor here and we are back to square one.
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"Karma itself is Multi-Universal"
Madoka could just you know, keep away...
Madoka could just you know, keep away...
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Read to what I was responding to as well
"And even then you haven't shown an example of even multi-universal range"
This Karma comes from the True Forms who have Multiversal+ range and are Nigh-Omnipresent.
"And even then you haven't shown an example of even multi-universal range"
This Karma comes from the True Forms who have Multiversal+ range and are Nigh-Omnipresent.
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So is Karma shown to be Multiversal+, or Multi-Universal?
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Mutliversal+ as it is from the True Forms whose power is despersed across the entire multiverse. Honestly, using an avatar is really not good here. This should be True Leviamon....If you really want a fair fight since you've already taken his ties to his own verse away.
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Or anyone else but Leviamon. Like I'm literally Bullshitting my way through this. Leviamon is literally the worst one you could use as he is the most haxless....
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Alright then.
I didn't make the fight but if what you said is correct "This is from the true Leviamon who is infinitely stronger than this avatar.", then you're asking this to be changed to a stomp.
Standard Battle Assumptions also took away Madoka's own ties to her verse.
I guess we have to go back to arguing about the concept manipulation? I mean, we could also just take the route that Madoka uses her soul manipulation on him, in which due to her lack of a soul (since she blew it up) she would survive Karma's effects.
I didn't make the fight but if what you said is correct "This is from the true Leviamon who is infinitely stronger than this avatar.", then you're asking this to be changed to a stomp.
Standard Battle Assumptions also took away Madoka's own ties to her verse.
I guess we have to go back to arguing about the concept manipulation? I mean, we could also just take the route that Madoka uses her soul manipulation on him, in which due to her lack of a soul (since she blew it up) she would survive Karma's effects.
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"I didn't make the fight but if what you said is correct "This is from the true Leviamon who is infinitely stronger than this avatar.", then you're asking this to be changed to a stomp."
Hence why I made another comment as I realized that was a dumb decision.
"Standard Battle Assumptions also took away Madoka's own ties to her verse."
Yeah, but Leviamon has more advantages...
"I guess we have to go back to arguing about the concept manipulation? I mean, we could also just take the route that Madoka uses her soul manipulation on him, in which due to her lack of a soul (since she blew it up) she would survive Karma's effects."
I mean karma could work on her. Although this is assuming if Karma is stronger than the likes of Soul Digitalization, which is likely tbh.
Hence why I made another comment as I realized that was a dumb decision.
"Standard Battle Assumptions also took away Madoka's own ties to her verse."
Yeah, but Leviamon has more advantages...
"I guess we have to go back to arguing about the concept manipulation? I mean, we could also just take the route that Madoka uses her soul manipulation on him, in which due to her lack of a soul (since she blew it up) she would survive Karma's effects."
I mean karma could work on her. Although this is assuming if Karma is stronger than the likes of Soul Digitalization, which is likely tbh.
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Ah didn't read that lol
I get that, well sorta, since Homura would just use power drain ending the fight there.
Wut's that?
I get that, well sorta, since Homura would just use power drain ending the fight there.
Wut's that?
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Oh by the way, about that new comment, you do know what it means to be bullshitting your way right?
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Alphamon's sealing attack. It was purge the soul of a souless being......Don't ask questions......
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When I say bullshitting I mean trying to find any small nook and cranny. So pretty much throwing darts that may or may not work.SomebodyData said:
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