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League of Legends Country Level Characters' Revision Thread

@Regis Nasus, Renekton, Brand, and Xerath arent being downgraded due to lore changes...

@COB Even if they did we cant just ignore this and pretend like it never happened. And of course they would be segregated, there would be a clear distinction between the canon Post-Retcon lore and the non-canon Pre-Retcon lore.
 
@CoB

I mean you get the point that the officially, very specific Disney canon doesn't mean Legends data have become invalidated, right? People would get really mad if any VS community started doing this. The reason you can even push this for LoL is because its VS community is very small. Try doing the same with other major verses that have even more strict canon policies but have a lot of lore to draw data from. There is your answer to the source of current reluctance.
 
@Weekly

Which is specifically what they want to as sad as it is. Since that is partly what a retcon is.

Well if there's that as long as the powers are adjusted to make sense instead of being all stocked together I'll be fine. But I also believe some adjustments are necessary.

@Heinkel

What? I meant that to the Star Wars canon itself and not to League when I said that's all the more reason to segregate them.

So are you saying we're not strict enough? League is pretty big itself. Though I've seen there have been several few that argued against League's level in here before (Not based on the Stellar rating ones)
 
Yes, Star Wars can have separate tabs for post-retcon Disney stats and pre-retcon Legends stats (despite Disney's far more energetic efforts to distance itself from Legends stuff) if the community was inclined to do so. I have no problem with that.

That's what current proposal for LoL is. So there is no problem with that.
 
Just realized that with the Jarvan/Swain adjustment we'd have to downgrade True Baron Nashor and by extension the Star Guardians...
 
Star Guardians, by the way, are MFTL+ when they fight in space. The travel throughout the galaxy or the universe.

Sgjanna


eh, wiki is lagging out when uploading images...
 
I don't mind stricter protocols. As long as there's no unjustified buffs or nerfs

That has a way of proof or something? Could've been fighting in one portion of space.
 
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/skins/star-guardian-2016


Translating Worlds

Star Guardians must familiarize themselves with the customs and rituals of a planet in order to blend in with its inhabitants, dispelling any suspicion about their true nature. Such activities often help strengthen the bonds between young Star Guardian teams.


They travel across worlds (plural). The conventional scientific understanding is that an average star has one planet in its habitable zone (meaning it's the burden of proof to prove that multiple habitable worlds are located in a single solar system, making the distance interplanetary rather than interstellar). These middle-school Star Guardian girls have to move across light years of distance between solar systems to arrive at new worlds they bond with.

Obviously, they'd do it before they are old enough to become high school girls between the beginning and the end of their travels : P
 
Look at Poppy and Lulu's concept arts. They are not teleporting. I brought them for a reason.

Janna is holding a galaxy in her hands, which likely functions as a map for their missions.

The site works okay to me btw
 
@Heinkel Lets put the Blood Moon and Star Guardians on the back burner for now, we still need to figure out what we're doing with the Aspects before we delve into alternate skins
 
Can I ask what is this "standard" rating we are giving those characters? Iirc the whole League of Legends summoners rift got retconned. Why are still 90% of the characters scaled to a single Garen calc? In the lore Teemo doesn't even know who Garen is and he has never fought him why is he scaled to him?
 
Also, would Bard and Celestial Soraka be MFTL+ or...? And does that mean we'd have to get rid of the High Hypersonic calc?
 
Bard and Soraka would be MFTL+ in space only. Aurelion Sol is the only Celestial with MFTL+ throughout because he's always flying in orbit anyway.

Kindred likely has infinite speed in the physical universe. (FauxSchizzle is the creator of Bard and Aurelion Sol)

Kindred
 
But would that only apply to them in space though? From what i recall Soraka never went to space and Bard's constellation creation feat wouldnt be something he can do only in space.

You brought that up earlier and its already taken into account on Kindred's profile as Omnipresence
 
Well then, it seems Celestial Soraka would be MFTL+, while Mortal Soraka would have Garen/Kled's speed.

And you are probably right that other champs should not scale to Bard anymore. They should just use Garen/Kled I think.
 
Okay, it's been a while, but I want to try and finish it off since I have some time off now so let's get it underway.

Jax/Wukong:

  • I've said all that I've wanted to about this (not keeping the old lore and stats) earlier in the thread, and I'm not in the mood to repeat it over and over again.
  • I just have some final suggestions if we decide to change their profiles to Lore | Skins. .
  • If it happens like that, we could always keep references to the old lore as well as the new, official lore in the League of Legends verse page.
  • A section could be made, called Lore of League of Legends', with links to the Universe site and the Journal of Justice site.
  • That's all I have to say on this topic.
Targonian Aspects:

  • The tricky part of rating the Aspects is that they're all being possessed by the Targonians (which are the Aspect they each represent) and
  • There is a limit/cap as to how much power they can call upon.
  • This is mentioned in Leona's bio, "She still had her memories and thoughts, was still master of her own flesh, but a sliver of something vast and inhuman had chosen her to be its mortal vessel."
  • Overall, there's confusion over how much power the mortal vessels (Leona, Pantheon, Taric, Diana) each possess and how much does the actual Aspect wield.
  • How should Leona's feats be rated?
  • Another problem is that it is difficult to scale their (the mortal Aspects) AP to Durability, since we don't have any real idea of how much more durable they've become due to the possession.
  • We do have a limit of sorts, that being the female Pantheon's death due to Aurelion Sol's destruction of the Void Gate (perhaps that could be calced and used?), but it seems to be much weaker than what other feats would suggest (based off AP = Durability scaling).
  • Ultimately we might have to put it as Low 7-C, possibly higher due to status as Aspect if we can't properly decide the ratings.

That's all for the contents of this thread, just wanted to address a few queries. @Bepo4151, you do have a good point about a lot of ingame mechanics used to scale characters (when these changes are based off lore of the characters). Perhaps a thread could be made addressing this? If you want to make it, as I could always do it for you.
 
I'm not up to date with the lore to handle revision that big. The last lore I read was during the bilgewater event.
 
Jax/Wukong:

I hate to tell you this but unless someone literally goes back in time and erases every trace of the original LoL lore so it never existed in the first place we're not removing the old stats over a retcon. We do the same for other verses, we have no reason to treat LoL any differently.

Hmm...we do already have a link to the LoL wiki so adding links to LoL Universe and the JoJ sounds like a good idea.

Targonian Aspects:

Theyre actually being posessed by Celestials but i get what you mean lol As with all characters, yes

Yup, a sliver of Celestial energy as was perviously mentioned in Bard and Soraka's profiles before the 4-A upgrade

Actually its one feat for Leona and one for Pantheon, both of which resulted in Star level

Again, he threw newborn stars when he used that attack and the resulting backlash that killed Pantheon was them going supernova to destroy the Void portal, so yes its logical that a High 4-C/4-B backlash would kill someone with 4-C durability

If anything we can rate them as Low 7-C physically, 4-C with magic
 
Okay, let's finish it up now.

Jax/Wukong:

  • I have no problem with giving them the old lore/new lore/skins keys if you guys want to, even if they really don't need it.
  • My only problem is that due to lore retcons and profile changes, these two stand out as inconsistent compared to other similarly old champion profiles, like Nasus, Swain, Jarvan etc.
  • They'll both have 2 keys for pre-retcon and post-retcon (extra ones for skins) while champs like Nasus and others with old lore have only 1.
  • This stands out among League profiles alone as most League profiles (including the ones getting changes in this thread, which are the older champs with old lore) are following the format of Lore | Skins, with no distinctions for lore.
  • And due to the changes made here, we won't have any real reference points to place in their profiles that people can check out on other profiles here. (Only champ we can refer to is Anivia's for whom we'll have to make a note saying that her tier didn't change due to lore retcon).
  • That's all from me.

Lore section on LoL Verse Page

  • Perhaps I could write up a section for it? Something like:
"In the past, League of Legends referred to a league that was established to prevent further Rune Wars on Valoran. The neutral aligned Summoners called forth exceptional individuals, referred to as "Champions", to battle on the Fields of Justice in order to settle disputes. These champions have joined the League for various reasons. Some are soldiers who have pledged their allegiance to a particular nation and fight in their nation's interests. Some are renowned warriors who seek to prove themselves against Valoran's most powerful beings. Some are prisoners of the League, forced to do the League's bidding as punishment. Some may even be strange creatures from other worlds, hoping to bring stability or further discord to Runeterra. Nevertheless, each champion possesses some quality that makes them extremely powerful. One can read about it in the Jounal of Justice archived here.

After the overhaul and retconning of the League in 2014, explained in this developer's blog, League has had several new stories released about the Champions, as well as releasing new Champions and has slowly been re-inventing and re-imagining the world of Runeterra, and the cosmos beyond. One can read about it on their official page at Universe ― League of Legends."

Covering the Aspects and SGs in another post.
 
Second part of my reply.

Targonian Aspects:

  • I'm not sure about how much of a stat boost they got from the Celestial Targonians and how much of it can they call upon in combat. (Like Leona's feats and Pantheon's jump).
  • That leads into difficulty on scaling their (the mortal Aspects) magical hax-based AP to Durability, since we don't have any real idea of how much more durable they've become due to the possession, or whether that they all have hax that can shield them against 4-C attacks. Taric might have a case here, but he hasn't shown any feats involving his abilities yet, so we can't rate him as such.
  • I'm also personally wary of scaling AP to Durability as they have little feats involving Durability. Lack of proper feats does not make for accurate ratings.
  • I'm still not sure on rating Sol's blasting of the Void portal as 4-C since I feel that there would have been more collateral than simply having the valley be destroyed (since it is assumed to be a Star Level attack).
  • He could have been holding back to avoid destroying Runeterra (as the Targonians might not want that to happen). Another possiblity, supporting the 4-C attack is that most of the energy may have gone into the portal, into the Void itself, so there was little collateral overall.
  • Ultimately we might have to go with your suggestion for AP Low 7-C, 4-C due to status as Aspect and something like Low 7-C, possible higher due to status as Aspect. They don't have any real durability feats and statements to make it easy to rate them higher.
Star Guardians

  • Since you scaled them from Baron Nashor, why not scale Baron from other monsters mentioned in lore and stuff (like the rock monster Poppy fought, or the Dragons Pantheon is said to have killed in one of his skin arts?). Not the greatest suggestion, since that does have a convoluted explanation, but it might be worth considering.
 
Lore section on LoL Verse Page:

Yes this description sounds like a good idea and would help clear up any issues concerning the retcon and lore, nice job.

Targonian Aspects:

  • Thing is the only one with a feat of destroying a star is Pantheon...Leona just moved the sun
  • "He could have been holding back to avoid destroying Runeterra (as the Targonians might not want that to happen). Another possibility, supporting the 4-C attack is that most of the energy may have gone into the portal, into the Void itself, so there was little collateral overall."
...This is exactly what happened, you know that right? Except it would be more of a 4-B or even a 4-A considering he was causing multiple supernovas simultaneously. The valley being destroyed was literally just collateral damage from the backlash of the attack, it doesnt reflect the full power of the attack in any way.

Star Guardians: According to Kittae monsters like Nashor and Vilemaw are far stronger than any champio, to the point where they would kill basically any champion that tried to fight them casually. This statement was made in 2013 so it wouldnt apply to someone like Sol it could still apply to champs like Lissandra and Anivia.
 
"Outraged, he fought these controlling impulses and attempted to break his bonds by force, only to discover that for each attack against his newfound masters, one of his stars vanished forever from the firmament." - From Sol's lore

"My head snaps up, and my eyes drink the bitter sight of a dying star. My hearts clasp shut. My minds reel. An overwhelming sense of despair ricochets through my very soul, emanating from a deep and immediate sorrow, like the pulsing realization you've lost something precious and know it's all your fault.

Some curious life forms I met long ago once asked how it was possible for me to remember every star I've created. If only they could feel what it was like to create a single star, they would understand the sheer irrelevance of that question. That's how I know when even one of my darlings winks out from existence, ejecting jets of energy and, with it, the very substance of my own spirit. I see her death knell in the heavens above. She shines brightly one last time in a pyroclasm that momentarily drowns her brothers and sisters. My heart shatters as the heavens are diminished in brutal retribution for turning my power on one of Targon's own." - From Twin Dawns

"Sudden light flared ahead, sunlight gleaming brightly. Impossible. Dawn was an hour or more away. The leader raised a callused hand as he saw a lone figure standing athwart the settlement's street. He grinned as he saw it was a woman. Finally, something worth plundering. Light inflamed her, and the grin fell from his face as he stepped closer and saw she was clad in ornate warplate. Auburn hair spilled from a golden circlet and sunlight glinted from her heavy shield and long-bladed sword.

...

Leona could not allow that and thrust her sword into the earth. She reached deep inside herself, drawing on the awesome power from beyond the mountain. The sun emerged from behind its highest peaks as Leona thrust her hand to the light. She dropped to one knee and slammed her fist on the ground. And sunfire rained from the sky." - From The Lightbringer
 
Can you summarise the issues here?
 
We still need to figure out how we're treating the Targonian Aspects, as there are at the very least three Star level feats, at least two of which involve destroying Pantheon destroying stars on separate occasions to punish Aurelion Sol and one of which involves Leona moving the sun. We also need to figure out how we're going to rate creatures such as Baron Nashor and Vilemaw.
 
Okay. I am afraid that I am not of much help with that.
 
Just to note, not all destruction of stars cause a supernova. Most star deaths are mass-scattering. Those are Star level feats.

The rare supernova deaths, however, are at least Solar System level that destroys everything within few light-hours of the star. Causing a star's death in a supernova that drowned the night sky would be a 4-B feat that destroyed the entire star system.
 
Okay, so I'm wary of rating the star destruction feats as solely Pantheon's as it seems to instead be some sort of mechanism that triggers everytime an Aspect or Targonian dies due to Aurelion Sol, making it very unlikely that one Aspect could do it alone. It's not stated anywhere that Pantheon (the Targonian or the mortal Aspect) is the one causing it, simply that it occured when (at that time) the female Aspect was killed.

The only Star level feat performed under the Aspects' own powers is Leona making the sun rise earlier, not exactly solid proof that all other Aspects can do the same or manipulate similar amounts of energy. Scaling might be possible, but you can't use any direct feats since there aren't many.
 
We should just make another page for 'Targonians' that has all the feats of the Aspects and the supernova feat plus other feats (telepathy, existing in another plane, etc). These Targonian feats are not present in any Aspect page at the moment, though they must still be accounted for.
 
@Heinkel The Targonians are the people who live in Tagron, the Aspects are just beings given a fractions of a Celestial's power, if anything it would just scale to the Celestials that the Aspects represent, which would be 4-A scaling from Bard and Soraka anyways
 
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