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Laxus Dreyar vs Zapdos
Both on High 7-A version
Fight on Tenrou Island without Tenrou Tree (Assume that the tree was already destroyed before this fight begin).
Speed equalized
And... Who is the winner?
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Laxus Dreyar vs Zapdos
- Thread starter Xanxussama1010
- Start date
Laxus Dreyar vs Zapdos
Both on High 7-A version
Fight on Tenrou Island without Tenrou Tree (Assume that the tree was already destroyed before this fight begin).
Speed equalized
And... Who is the winner?
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- Thread starter
- #2
bump
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After a bit of thought, I realized I could probably make my reply more concise. So, I did some editing.
If you want to see the original, unabridged version of that post, which I feel goes into more detail, I have saved that & made a Pastebin of it for your viewing: https://pastebin.com/qHpZqJ7r
ANYWAY....
Zapdos has: Better AP, SS, Durability, likely better flight abilities, & possibly equal or better stamina &/or intelligence.
"Special" (Non-physical) durability buffing via Light Screen (temporarily halve Special attack damage Zapdos receives.) & Charge (Buff Sp. Def)....
If it has Lightning Rod, Drawing in & absorption of Lightning via Lightning Rod, which also buffs its Special Attack, which in this case, helps its Lightning attacks & Ancient Power, Ancient Power being the more relevant one. The Lightning Absorption also means using Lightning Body while close to Lightning Rod Zapdos carries a risk, as LR lets Zapdos draw in and absorb electricity, & get a power-up from it.
A likely Stamina advantage if it has Pressure, thanks to Pressure meaning Laxus will expend more stamina fighting Zapdos than he would otherwise, & thus, probably tire out first.
10% chance of buffing all its stats via Ancient Power.
Detect to allow it to evade attacks.
Roost to heal itself, as well as temporarily make itself resistant to Lightning, as opposed to Neutral, as is usually the case with Zapdos's Electric/Flying typing.
The above defensive options mean that Laxus using the Legendary Spell Fairy Law could be evaded, tanked thanks to durability buffs from Charge, Light Screen or Ancient Power's random chance effect, & if Zapdos has Pressure, casting Fairy Law will be even more taxing than usual.
A possible advantage through Zapdos being a more adept & flexible flier, & thus, better able to make use of Tenrou Island's terrain.
Zapdos may have lightning immunity/absorption regardless of which ability it has. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Zapdos_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2 To quote one of its Pokedex entries: Zapdos is a legendary bird Pokémon that has the ability to control electricity. It usually lives in thunderclouds. The Pokémon gains power if it is stricken by lightning bolts.
Laxus has: More adept at close combat, as he has more limbs he's used to attacking with. Thus, he could overcome Zapdos's superior AP, SS & Dura through landing more attacks in close combat.
Thought Projection could possibly be used for decoys, but the use may be limited against Zapdos & its "high" intelligence. Lightning Immunity means Zapdos will have to mainly use Ancient Power for its ranged offense.
Lightning Body allows him to use his magic to turn himself into Lightning, & thus fly, & have a level of intangibility. His own page, however, suggests that it can only be maintained while he is in motion.
Possible advantage from fighting on Tenrou Island. Quoting its page on the Fairy Tail Wikia:
"The Great Tenrou Tree sinking its roots in the center of the island bestows divine protection upon those bearing the Fairy Tail crest, making it so that they cannot die while on the island, while at the same time enhancing their Magic Power. Such effects would be nullified in the unlikely case that the tree was destroyed."
Could potentially use his Lightning Absorption to eat electricity produced on contact, if Zapdos has Static. This would allow him to gain healing &/or stat boosts.
The advantages I listed above means it can buff its special durability enough to not mind electric attacks if it isn't immune already, & potentially tank Fairy Law, not to mention, Pressure making Laxus have to use more stamina than usual makes Fairy Law even harder on the caster.
Add to this healing & temporary Lightning Resistance (If it isn't already immune.) via Roost, evasion via Detect, & Ancient Power's 10% chance of buffing all of Zapdos's stats, which Zapdos will likely be using more once it realizes Electricity isn't hurting Laxus.
Zapdos likely having the better flight, & thus, better mobility as well, means Laxus will have trouble keeping things close combat, & even if he does, Zapdos can still fight back with Ancient Power, Drill Peck, & evade with Detect.
If Zapdos has Static, its chances are a bit worse, as Static doesn't really help at all -In Pokemon, electric-types can't be paralyzed; Laxus naturally uses electricity, so it's very unlikely it'll affect him- & Laxus's Electricity Absorption may allow Laxus to BENEFIT from it.
But Lightning Rod or Zapdos being otherwise immune to electricity means Laxus has to rely on Fairy Law for ranged offense, & Pressure means he loses stamina faster, which is bad ranged or close up.
Both can fly, but Zapdos is likely the better flier, & thus more mobile. It's also better outfitted to outlast Laxus in its abilities, it can be close, equal, or better than him in several stats, & to me Laxus seems like he needs to take advantage of his advantages in close combat against Zapdos, which just doesn't seem easy here, all things considered.
Whereas Zapdos can still fight at a range or up close, & has help from Detect, buffs from multiple moves, possibly Lightning Rod, & possibly Ancient Power buffs, plus healing with Roost if it gets an opportunity.
Even if Laxus has a buff to his magic power by being on Tenrou Island, Zapdos may still be able to overcome it with Charge, Light Screen & possibly Ancient Power's randomly occuring effect allowing it to tank Laxus's non-physical attacks better.
As for preventing death, its uncertain if this offers Laxus extra durability, or just prevents him dying. It's uncertain how that would matter if it doesn't affect durability, as an opponent's Death is either a win condition -in which case, doesn't that mean Laxus can't lose here?- or irrelevant.
'And all that assumes that Tenrou Island DOES benefit Laxus, as the divine protection is specifically bestowed upon "'those bearing the Fairy Tail crest", which I'm uncertain if he has; I'm not sure if he HAS the "Fairy Tail crest" on his body.
Overall, I believe Zapdos wins this, with high difficulty.
If you want to see the original, unabridged version of that post, which I feel goes into more detail, I have saved that & made a Pastebin of it for your viewing: https://pastebin.com/qHpZqJ7r
ANYWAY....
Zapdos has: Better AP, SS, Durability, likely better flight abilities, & possibly equal or better stamina &/or intelligence.
"Special" (Non-physical) durability buffing via Light Screen (temporarily halve Special attack damage Zapdos receives.) & Charge (Buff Sp. Def)....
If it has Lightning Rod, Drawing in & absorption of Lightning via Lightning Rod, which also buffs its Special Attack, which in this case, helps its Lightning attacks & Ancient Power, Ancient Power being the more relevant one. The Lightning Absorption also means using Lightning Body while close to Lightning Rod Zapdos carries a risk, as LR lets Zapdos draw in and absorb electricity, & get a power-up from it.
A likely Stamina advantage if it has Pressure, thanks to Pressure meaning Laxus will expend more stamina fighting Zapdos than he would otherwise, & thus, probably tire out first.
10% chance of buffing all its stats via Ancient Power.
Detect to allow it to evade attacks.
Roost to heal itself, as well as temporarily make itself resistant to Lightning, as opposed to Neutral, as is usually the case with Zapdos's Electric/Flying typing.
The above defensive options mean that Laxus using the Legendary Spell Fairy Law could be evaded, tanked thanks to durability buffs from Charge, Light Screen or Ancient Power's random chance effect, & if Zapdos has Pressure, casting Fairy Law will be even more taxing than usual.
A possible advantage through Zapdos being a more adept & flexible flier, & thus, better able to make use of Tenrou Island's terrain.
Zapdos may have lightning immunity/absorption regardless of which ability it has. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Zapdos_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2 To quote one of its Pokedex entries: Zapdos is a legendary bird Pokémon that has the ability to control electricity. It usually lives in thunderclouds. The Pokémon gains power if it is stricken by lightning bolts.
Laxus has: More adept at close combat, as he has more limbs he's used to attacking with. Thus, he could overcome Zapdos's superior AP, SS & Dura through landing more attacks in close combat.
Thought Projection could possibly be used for decoys, but the use may be limited against Zapdos & its "high" intelligence. Lightning Immunity means Zapdos will have to mainly use Ancient Power for its ranged offense.
Lightning Body allows him to use his magic to turn himself into Lightning, & thus fly, & have a level of intangibility. His own page, however, suggests that it can only be maintained while he is in motion.
Possible advantage from fighting on Tenrou Island. Quoting its page on the Fairy Tail Wikia:
"The Great Tenrou Tree sinking its roots in the center of the island bestows divine protection upon those bearing the Fairy Tail crest, making it so that they cannot die while on the island, while at the same time enhancing their Magic Power. Such effects would be nullified in the unlikely case that the tree was destroyed."
Could potentially use his Lightning Absorption to eat electricity produced on contact, if Zapdos has Static. This would allow him to gain healing &/or stat boosts.
The advantages I listed above means it can buff its special durability enough to not mind electric attacks if it isn't immune already, & potentially tank Fairy Law, not to mention, Pressure making Laxus have to use more stamina than usual makes Fairy Law even harder on the caster.
Add to this healing & temporary Lightning Resistance (If it isn't already immune.) via Roost, evasion via Detect, & Ancient Power's 10% chance of buffing all of Zapdos's stats, which Zapdos will likely be using more once it realizes Electricity isn't hurting Laxus.
Zapdos likely having the better flight, & thus, better mobility as well, means Laxus will have trouble keeping things close combat, & even if he does, Zapdos can still fight back with Ancient Power, Drill Peck, & evade with Detect.
If Zapdos has Static, its chances are a bit worse, as Static doesn't really help at all -In Pokemon, electric-types can't be paralyzed; Laxus naturally uses electricity, so it's very unlikely it'll affect him- & Laxus's Electricity Absorption may allow Laxus to BENEFIT from it.
But Lightning Rod or Zapdos being otherwise immune to electricity means Laxus has to rely on Fairy Law for ranged offense, & Pressure means he loses stamina faster, which is bad ranged or close up.
Both can fly, but Zapdos is likely the better flier, & thus more mobile. It's also better outfitted to outlast Laxus in its abilities, it can be close, equal, or better than him in several stats, & to me Laxus seems like he needs to take advantage of his advantages in close combat against Zapdos, which just doesn't seem easy here, all things considered.
Whereas Zapdos can still fight at a range or up close, & has help from Detect, buffs from multiple moves, possibly Lightning Rod, & possibly Ancient Power buffs, plus healing with Roost if it gets an opportunity.
Even if Laxus has a buff to his magic power by being on Tenrou Island, Zapdos may still be able to overcome it with Charge, Light Screen & possibly Ancient Power's randomly occuring effect allowing it to tank Laxus's non-physical attacks better.
As for preventing death, its uncertain if this offers Laxus extra durability, or just prevents him dying. It's uncertain how that would matter if it doesn't affect durability, as an opponent's Death is either a win condition -in which case, doesn't that mean Laxus can't lose here?- or irrelevant.
'And all that assumes that Tenrou Island DOES benefit Laxus, as the divine protection is specifically bestowed upon "'those bearing the Fairy Tail crest", which I'm uncertain if he has; I'm not sure if he HAS the "Fairy Tail crest" on his body.
Overall, I believe Zapdos wins this, with high difficulty.
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Uh, oh. I never expect to meet wall of text like this O_O
Bu many thanks! That's really clear answer!
About Tenrou Tree, I just random to select this place by didn't realize about that issue because I forgot it. So assume that the tree was already destroyed before this fight begin.
Anyway, thanks again!
Now we have 1 vote to Zapdos.
Bu many thanks! That's really clear answer!
About Tenrou Tree, I just random to select this place by didn't realize about that issue because I forgot it. So assume that the tree was already destroyed before this fight begin.
Anyway, thanks again!
Now we have 1 vote to Zapdos.
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Zapdos fot the above reasons...
@Imaginym has perfectly summed up the battle.
@Imaginym has perfectly summed up the battle.
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Zapdos for reasons above.
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Zapdos for reasons above
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Zapdos for reasons above, especially considering how Pokémon have all of their abilities like they have all of their moves in a vs battle.
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Wait, they do? I didn't realize that was our stance at the time of this, but alright. Assuming of course, you mean that you mean all 2 or more of their abilities at once.The real cal howard said:
[I]Omega998 said:
(Use CTRL+F -or whatever you use to search for text- and search for "In conclusion" (without quotes.) if you want to see the simplified reasons I explain in the following arguments. Please pardon my verbosity, all.)
Even if Makarov can take out 1 million soldiers -or, whichever kind if "1m soldiers" are a type of soldier- that doesn't mean Laxus is equal in ability to Makarov in magical skill, raw power, or use with Fairy Law.
Besides that, neither of Laxus's Attack Potency & Striking Strength as a High 7-A are higher than Zapdos's Durability as a High 7-A, & the OP SPECIFIED that this VsBattle use the High 7-A Versions of the two characters.
If Laxus has higher Attack Potency or Striking Strength than VsBattles Wikia currently has documented when he's using Fairy Tail, then we need to see feats, calculations or other official, reasonable statements that match up with that to verify it.
I don't deny the possibility that Laxus may have higher AP or SS than normal when using Fairy Law, but I don't assert the case that he does.
Because, as the site is, his current stats don't support his Attack Potency or Striking Strength being higher when using Fairy Law. If there's proof, that's great!
However, supposing he does, it's STILL not an easy win condition for him:
As far as I know, Laxus primarily uses Lightning Magic & melee combat.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Standard_Battle_Assumptions
With no prep knowledge of Zapdos, he doesn't know everything about Zapdos.
He might realize it has electricity in its nature when he sees it crackle with electricity or something when he encounters it, but nothing about the encounter beyond the location being Tenrou Island, speed equalization & character versions has been specified.
Laxus MAY not realize it's immune to & powered up by Lightning, & attack it with Lightning, his natural element.
Zapdos having said immunity is supposing it has Lightning Rod, which is either 1 of 3 abilities it might have....
....Or, given Administrator Cal's statement that Pokemon have all of their abilities at once, it would be guaranteed to have said immunity via Lightning Rod.
There is the possibility that Zapdos could make a similar mistake & use Lightning to attack Laxus, giving him some temporary extra magic energy, yes.
But it's not guaranteed that the extra fuel he gets from Zapdos making the mistake of zapping him will last longer than Zapdos's AP/SS boost if LAXUS zaps Lightning Rod Zapdos, nor is it guaranteed to help him overcome his doubled stamina loss if Zapdos has Pressure.
Still, the fact is there: Neither has prep, but both are smart enough to resort to non-Lightning attacks -for ranged fighting or otherwise- once they realize the other is immune.
Fairy Law is a Legendary spell, & as I understand it, very draining to use; Laxus's own profile cites his useage of it in various situations for his stamina rating of "Extremely Large". It would seem it takes a lot of stamina to use. If Zapdos has Pressure, then Fairy Law's already heavy stamina cost is doubled.
But even before considering Pressure or being aware of it, how likely is Laxus going to be to resort to a stamina cost heavy, Legendary spell, when he'd be more likely resort to his lightning spells -before he becomes aware of any immunity- or try to chase it down to close combat?
Without already knowing what Zapdos is, there's little reason for Laxus to go for that high effort spell against an unknown opponent. Especially when, for all he knows before combat starts, he could just assume it's a static-electricity charged, giant flying chicken.
The point is, even if Laxus DOES have higher AP/SS when using Fairy Law -which I doubt the whole of the site is certain about- it's not necessarily going to be his first offensive resort, & there'll be plenty of fighting before he might resort to that.
In such fighting he could:
End up zapping Zapdos, powering it up through Lightning Rod.
End up wasting stamina because of fighing an opponent with Pressure.
Or Zapdos could end up using Charge, raising its durability against non-physical attacks, like Fairy Law.
It could end up landing the 10% chance of Ancient Power boosting all of its stats, which includes durability, another possibility of it taking less damage from Fairy Law.
It could use Light Screen, which HALVES damage from non-physical attacks, like Fairy Law.
And those 5 possibilities for those bad cases for Laxus using Fairy Tail offensively assume they happen BEFORE Laxus casts it; This is a speed equalized match, so it's possible for Zapdos to react to it by using Charge or Light Screen to augment its own durability, or possibly dodge, especially with Detect.
Nevermind that Zapdos has higher Durability than Laxus's current AP/SS, meaning even if Fairy Law DOES give him higher AP/SS, it may not be a big enough difference anyway to damage Zapdos enough before its buffs, let alone one shot it.
Not to mention Zapdos has precognition for Evasion purposes through Detect, so it could possibly EVADE Fairy Law, and not take any damage at all!
And even if it DID take damage, Laxus has just used a stamina-cost heavy spell; It's not that unbelievable to say he may have a moment of inactivity, such as to catch his breath. Moreso if Pressure is to be considered.
In such a scenario, Zapdos could likely find an opportunity to use Roost and HEAL some or all of Fairy Law's damage away.
In conclusion:
Fairy Law isn't guaranteed to be Laxus's first resort, & a lot could happen before he might try it.
Both characters are specified as High 7-A, & Laxus's offenses & durability are lower than Zapdos's own durability, and offenses. Fairy Law isn't guaranteed to kill.
Considering Zapdos's normally higher offenses & durability, there's also a slim possibility that Laxus loses before he casts Fairy Law.
In my humble opinion, our Wiki doesn't seem to have much certainty on HOW much higher, if at all, Laxus's offenses are when using Fairy Law. Fairy Law isn't guaranteed to make a big enough offensive difference to let it kill.
Laxus may not be able to handle the stamina costs to use Fairy Law enough to kill. Especially with Pressure influencing said stamina costs.
Zapdos might have higher durability than it started with (Such as from Charge.) against such attacks, meaning FL may not kill.
Zapdos might have damage from such attacks HALVED, meaning FL could be even MORE likely to not kill.
Zapdos could evade Fairy Law, & as this is a Speed Equalized match, it may or may not even need Detect's Precognition-based Evasion to do so!
Even if it DID hit, if it DOESN'T kill, Zapdos still has the possibility of healing away the damage by using Roost.
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I have to side with Zapdos for reasons above.
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Bump.
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Fairy law... Nothing more is necessary of course going by assumption he uses it in time.
Fairy law that hits anything in large range so Zapdos can have all the precognition he want he still won't escape or regenerate from a similar attack...
Fairy law and law used by Mavis are diffrent... Fairy law was always shown to have at least kilometre range so I don't see a single way for Zapdos to dodge in time whethere he knows the attack is coming or not.
Fairy law that hits anything in large range so Zapdos can have all the precognition he want he still won't escape or regenerate from a similar attack...
Fairy law and law used by Mavis are diffrent... Fairy law was always shown to have at least kilometre range so I don't see a single way for Zapdos to dodge in time whethere he knows the attack is coming or not.
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Neither anime, manga or game implies this.The real cal howard said:
That's made up rule.
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Why would a Pokémon there's only one of canonically only have one ability when there's three.
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Also, this is the case in Mystery Dungeon. I can even provide a funny flaw in the fact that Lucario had both, Inner Focus and Steadfast.
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And why we have to assume it has all of them?
Go, catch Zapdos and show me and screenshot of what ability it has.
Also, it doesn't matter if there's only one. By that logic, Nature would be useless for them.
Go, catch Zapdos and show me and screenshot of what ability it has.
Also, it doesn't matter if there's only one. By that logic, Nature would be useless for them.
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Nature in itself is a game mechanic. Why would a creature be assigned to one emotion, and why would it boost stats?
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Any answer I can said to that would starts a greenpeace-like debate.The real cal howard said:
Also, considering how the anime consideres levels as something, I wouldn't just discard natures.
Also, again, if you can gave Zapdos all his abilties AND moves, then... Nothing, that's just f*cked up.
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I will concede, it's hard to dodge an omnidirectional sphere, expanding kilometres in any direction, even in a speed equalized match.WilliamShadow said:
But what precent is there for it hitting harder than Laxus's already existing Small Island Level Attack Potency? Or whatever it is in this High 7-A Versions match.
Do we have any calculations on Fairy Law, for example?
Even if Zapdos can't dodge it, isn't interrupting the casting by attacking possible, considering its long casting time?
Not to mention that it's likely that before Laxus has used it, during the ensuing fight Zapdos may have upped its durability against non-physical attacks, such as by using Charge, or by using Light Screen, which halves the damage from non-physical attacks.
Not to mention, for all my searching, I can't find any times Laxus used Fairy Law other than when fighting Fairy Tail. And then, it didn't have any effect because he didn't consider them his enemies.
I'm not saying Fairy Law's weak, but I can't find any examples of Laxus canonically using Fairy Law to do damage, so we don't know how strong it is exactly, & it's not certain it may not be strong enough to beat Zapdos & all its possible durability buffs even if it IS stronger than Laxus's usual attacking strength.
Looking around for Makarov & Mavis's useage of FL, I found that it was used to take out Jose Porla & the rest of the Phantom Lord guild, but Jose doesn't even have a page here, & this was after a long battle. Not to mention, it's before the most recent point in the series, so power scaling may mean Jose & the guild weren't even that strong compared to current power levels.
I also went searching for Fairy Law calcs. http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/iwandesu-calc-request-time-9-multiple-verses.33335/ That's what I could find. To quote it.
That Cloud Dispersal calc yielded this result: Mavis fairy law=41.42 tons-5.831848 megatons of tnt
According to our own page, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency#Attack_Potency_Chart : 11 Tons to 100 Tons is
| 8-B | City Block |
7-A ranges from: 100 Megatons to 1 Gigato
Since we're using the highest 7-A ratings, that's 1 Gigaton.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gigato
A gigaton is defined as 1 billion tons (1,000,000,000 metric tonnes.).
I'm assuming I have my units right.
I also think it's fair to assume that since Mavis had improved the original spell, & Makarov also probably learned that improved Fairy Law, which Laxus likely learned & then perfected, & Laxus has grown a lot stronger in strength & magic power over the course of the series, I thus think it's fair to assume he could do better, especially since Laxus has Mountain level ratings of his own, which are better than the 41.42 tons Mavis's cloud dispersing via Fairy Law got.
But as far as I know, we've only seen Laxus use Fairy Law ONCE, & when he did so, it largely failed, not damaging the Fairy Tail guild members or the townspeople.
It's a very powerful spell, but I'm doubtful is AP significantly higher than usual with Fairy Law as we haven't ever really seem Laxus do damage with it.
Even assuming Laxus's Fairy Law can yield much higher results than Mavis's cloud dispersal with her older version of the spell, which got 41.42 tons on the only calc I could find for Fairy Law.... (And I don't even know if that calc has been accepted by us!)
To get past Zapdos's High 7-A durability of around 1 Gigaton, with Fairy Law, Laxus's Fairy Law would have to be....
1 Gigaton is 1,000,000,000 tons, so that divided by 41.42 is:
24,142,926.122646064703042008691453 times stronger than the result of Mavis's older Fairy Law spell dispersing clouds, which got a City Block level.
And while he did envelop a town with the light of it, Laxus has done very little else with Fairy Law. Yes it's possible that there's more power calcing that could be yielded by its other effects....
But the only showings of Fairy Law I know of are Jose Porla being defeated by it after a long battle, along with his guild, & that cloud dispersal calc, & Laxus has done little to nothing to show that he has stronger AP/SS than normal with it.
When he cast it on Fairy Tail, it didn't harm them.
So if the spell failed, what are we supposed to look to to believe a successful casting of it by Laxus is stronger by a great enough amount?
And the one calc I can find -even if it's only a cloud dispersal calc- is literally 24 million times too weak to get past High 7-A Durability, which Zapdos has (And as its lowest durability rating.) in this match and can still increase its durability further!
Laxus got a lot stronger, & perfected an improved version of Fairy Law, but I honestly have my doubts about his Fairy Law being stronger than Mavis's older version of it, in tons, by several million fold.
If there's something I'm missing here, please feel free to explain it to me. But I'm honestly doubtful there's precedent to believe Laxus's Fairy Law is a means of one-shotting Zapdos here.
To say nothing of the fact that he could still exhaust himself using it thanks to Pressure or just not be thwarted by Zapdos's durability-amping hax & healing via Roost.
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bump
Now
Zapdos: 6
Laxus: 2
Now
Zapdos: 6
Laxus: 2
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Err, if Laxus is Mountain level or whatever, Laxus' Fairy Law would be at that level and possibly higher. If I remember correctly, Mavis' Fairy Law erased that dragon in Fairy Tail Zero which was obviously much powerful than Mavis at the time. What you're referring to is DC. Laxus' Fairy Law didn't work on the other members of Fairy Tail because he considers them as comrades.
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Then Laxus laws Zapdos?
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Eh, I don't know. It's possible given what Mavis did to that dragon. And it wasn't even fully mastered at that time.
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Well yes, but my point is, although Laxus has supposedly perfected an improved/newer version of Fairy Law, although other characters have successfully used Fairy Law, we haven't seem him use it to damage anyone.
Yes, I know the reason he didn't damage Fairy Tail with it was because he considered them, & everyone in Magnolia Town as comrades in his heart. But some people may be more or less effective with certain kinds of spells than others.
It could be possible Laxus's Fairy Law isn't as effective as that of other characters.
Still, I do think it's reasonable that Fairy Law would be at Mountain level or higher.
It one shotting Zapdos here, however, who's the same tier (And if this match wasn't specifying High 7-A versions, higher.) seems unlikely. Especially given Zapdos's durability increasing options.
As great a spell Fairy Law is, I doubt it's so much stronger than Laxus's normal offenses that it can easily one-shot an equal or higher tier character as easily when the damage is being halved by Light Screen or reduced by other forms of durability increasing.
And doesn't it have a heavy stamina cost that may be increased by Pressure?
Yes, I know the reason he didn't damage Fairy Tail with it was because he considered them, & everyone in Magnolia Town as comrades in his heart. But some people may be more or less effective with certain kinds of spells than others.
It could be possible Laxus's Fairy Law isn't as effective as that of other characters.
Still, I do think it's reasonable that Fairy Law would be at Mountain level or higher.
It one shotting Zapdos here, however, who's the same tier (And if this match wasn't specifying High 7-A versions, higher.) seems unlikely. Especially given Zapdos's durability increasing options.
As great a spell Fairy Law is, I doubt it's so much stronger than Laxus's normal offenses that it can easily one-shot an equal or higher tier character as easily when the damage is being halved by Light Screen or reduced by other forms of durability increasing.
And doesn't it have a heavy stamina cost that may be increased by Pressure?
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Well, that's something of an assumption. I don't think Laxus' Fairy Law would suddenly be less effective than that of other characters. At least to people around his level. If Mavis who was a newbie mage could use it to defeat something stronger than her while the technique wasn't mastered, I don't see why Laxus wouldn't be able to do something similar when he has mastered it and is a much better mage than Mavis was at that point. The durability increasing options that Zapdos has might not be very useful as we already have a showing of Fairy Law affecting something with higher durability than the caster's normal AP. I don't know if it would be as effective if the damage is halved though.
I don't remember the stamina thing. I'll check later.
I don't remember the stamina thing. I'll check later.
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I see. I doubt the Dragon or Mavis's AP at the time are quantifiable, are they? If they are, calcs would be great. I know that Mavis at least has a page here.
As for stamina, Laxus using Fairy Law is listed in his stamina section. Quoting our own page him:
Stamina: Extremely Large (Was able to keep fighting Natsu and Gajeel after casting Thunder Palace and fighting Mystogan, and still cast Fairy Law afterwards. Battled Wall Eehto even while his organs were severely injured)
I'd assume it has a considerable stamina cost. Also, can you link the scene where Mavis defeats the dragon? It may be useful to know what shape her Fairy Law attack was.
At the very least, I can find that the Fairy Tail Wiki says this:
"Setting Law as its basis, Mavis modified and improved it so that users wouldn't suffer from its side effect,[2] but she has noted that this Magic is meant to only be used to a singular target and the more targets the caster uses it on the more lethal it would be to their lifespan, and in the worst cases can cause death to the caster[7]"
Their citations are:
2. Ôåæ 2.0 2.1 Monthly Fairy Tail: Volume 13 Mashima Hiro-Sensei Long Interview
7. Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 505, Page 10
However, I think it may help to find the exact manga, & especially the interview they cite, so we can see the exact words, if only for the purpose of this debate. I know it may not seem like it, but I'm a fan of Fairy Tail too, to some degree.
Doing further reading on the Wiki, I found this:
http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fairy_Glitter
"According to Bluenote Stinger, it is a Magic that rivals Fairy Law and is a radiance of merciless light that denies the existence of nearby foes.[1]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 232, Pages 3-4
" It is also an exceedingly complex and unfathomably intricate Magic that collects and concentrates the light of the sun, the moon and the stars.[2]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 233, Page 7
"According to Mavis Vermilion, it takes a lot of Magic Power and concentration to properly wield Fairy Glitter, shown when Cana was unable to use it properly despite her considerable power.[3]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 233, Page 13
For what it's worth, Cana has a page here. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cana_Alberona
Her tier is listed as: Tier: 8-B | At least 8-A. At least 7-B with Fairy Glitter | 7-B. At least 7-A with Fairy Glitter
Attack Potency says: At least Mountain level with Fairy Glitter (Destroyed Fairy Heart, albeit it took multiple shots. Should still be superior to Jura)
This may be useful for scaling, if we can find out exactly how many shots, given that we have a tier for Fairy Heart .
Fairy Heart's tier is shown as:
Tier: Unknow, (at least 6-B in conjuction with Etherio)
Although Fairy Glitter's description may be possible, it could mean the spell is quite high in power. But the fact that it's comparable to Fairy Law, & Fairy Glitter needed multiple shots to destroy Fairy Heart is interesting information.
Of course, it may not end up mattering by virtue of the numbers being so high, depending on just how high Fairy Glitter's "at least 6-B" goes.
Once again, if anyone can show scans for exact dialogue, number of shots, calcing, etcetera, that would be a great help!
Anyway, with this in mind, if, after all this is resolved, it does end up being the case that Laxus can one-shot Zapdos with Fairy Law even if the damage is being halved & Zapdos possibly has its own durability buffed....
THEN, I think I'd be willing to change my vote to be something like "Laxus, Medium Difficulty".
Of course, all this on just how in favor of Laxus I'd be depends on just how strong FL can be calc'd to be, how much durability buffing it can go through, if at all, if it has any form of durability negation -doubtful- and factors like how likely he is to cast it earlier into the battle, given stamina costs, as, even without a high stamina cost for Laxus, he still may have to deal with Pressure. And when he might cast it may be influenced depending on if Zapdos has Lightning Immunity, as, if we follow Admin Cal's statement of Pokemon having all 3 of their abilities, it does, but if not, it can, but won't necessarily.
But IF Fairy Law really can oneshot Zapdos, in spite of its hax, then the only way I can see it surviving is Detect's Precognition, & the possibility of Speed Equalization extending to Attack Speed & allowing Zapdos to fly out of range or something, lol.
If it was a certain oneshot, I'll end up voting Laxus, but without Fairy Law being a oneshot, my vote stays Zapdos.
As for stamina, Laxus using Fairy Law is listed in his stamina section. Quoting our own page him:
Stamina: Extremely Large (Was able to keep fighting Natsu and Gajeel after casting Thunder Palace and fighting Mystogan, and still cast Fairy Law afterwards. Battled Wall Eehto even while his organs were severely injured)
I'd assume it has a considerable stamina cost. Also, can you link the scene where Mavis defeats the dragon? It may be useful to know what shape her Fairy Law attack was.
At the very least, I can find that the Fairy Tail Wiki says this:
"Setting Law as its basis, Mavis modified and improved it so that users wouldn't suffer from its side effect,[2] but she has noted that this Magic is meant to only be used to a singular target and the more targets the caster uses it on the more lethal it would be to their lifespan, and in the worst cases can cause death to the caster[7]"
Their citations are:
2. Ôåæ 2.0 2.1 Monthly Fairy Tail: Volume 13 Mashima Hiro-Sensei Long Interview
7. Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 505, Page 10
However, I think it may help to find the exact manga, & especially the interview they cite, so we can see the exact words, if only for the purpose of this debate. I know it may not seem like it, but I'm a fan of Fairy Tail too, to some degree.
Doing further reading on the Wiki, I found this:
http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fairy_Glitter
"According to Bluenote Stinger, it is a Magic that rivals Fairy Law and is a radiance of merciless light that denies the existence of nearby foes.[1]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 232, Pages 3-4
" It is also an exceedingly complex and unfathomably intricate Magic that collects and concentrates the light of the sun, the moon and the stars.[2]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 233, Page 7
"According to Mavis Vermilion, it takes a lot of Magic Power and concentration to properly wield Fairy Glitter, shown when Cana was unable to use it properly despite her considerable power.[3]"
Ôåæ Fairy Tail Manga: Chapter 233, Page 13
For what it's worth, Cana has a page here. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cana_Alberona
Her tier is listed as: Tier: 8-B | At least 8-A. At least 7-B with Fairy Glitter | 7-B. At least 7-A with Fairy Glitter
Attack Potency says: At least Mountain level with Fairy Glitter (Destroyed Fairy Heart, albeit it took multiple shots. Should still be superior to Jura)
This may be useful for scaling, if we can find out exactly how many shots, given that we have a tier for Fairy Heart .
Fairy Heart's tier is shown as:
Tier: Unknow, (at least 6-B in conjuction with Etherio)
Although Fairy Glitter's description may be possible, it could mean the spell is quite high in power. But the fact that it's comparable to Fairy Law, & Fairy Glitter needed multiple shots to destroy Fairy Heart is interesting information.
Of course, it may not end up mattering by virtue of the numbers being so high, depending on just how high Fairy Glitter's "at least 6-B" goes.
Once again, if anyone can show scans for exact dialogue, number of shots, calcing, etcetera, that would be a great help!
Anyway, with this in mind, if, after all this is resolved, it does end up being the case that Laxus can one-shot Zapdos with Fairy Law even if the damage is being halved & Zapdos possibly has its own durability buffed....
THEN, I think I'd be willing to change my vote to be something like "Laxus, Medium Difficulty".
Of course, all this on just how in favor of Laxus I'd be depends on just how strong FL can be calc'd to be, how much durability buffing it can go through, if at all, if it has any form of durability negation -doubtful- and factors like how likely he is to cast it earlier into the battle, given stamina costs, as, even without a high stamina cost for Laxus, he still may have to deal with Pressure. And when he might cast it may be influenced depending on if Zapdos has Lightning Immunity, as, if we follow Admin Cal's statement of Pokemon having all 3 of their abilities, it does, but if not, it can, but won't necessarily.
But IF Fairy Law really can oneshot Zapdos, in spite of its hax, then the only way I can see it surviving is Detect's Precognition, & the possibility of Speed Equalization extending to Attack Speed & allowing Zapdos to fly out of range or something, lol.
If it was a certain oneshot, I'll end up voting Laxus, but without Fairy Law being a oneshot, my vote stays Zapdos.
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Um well, I don't know how to link videos or the exact scene where it happened. All I know is that the dragon was very obviously stronger than her and was wrecking buildings all around them. Mavis at that time utilized only illusions, she didn't have any direct attacks or anything and I doubt she would even be Wall level at that time. Except I'm not remembering something.
Err, I don't know if you had some kind of misconception or something but I'm not voting for Laxus and neither am I really invested in this fight. I just commented to clear up on some things you said about Law. I didn't say Laxus was going to one-shot with Fairy Law, I said it was a possibility. I don't know if it would work if the power gets halved. I also don't understand why you posted stuff about Fairy Glitter and Fairy Heart. Sorry.
Err, I don't know if you had some kind of misconception or something but I'm not voting for Laxus and neither am I really invested in this fight. I just commented to clear up on some things you said about Law. I didn't say Laxus was going to one-shot with Fairy Law, I said it was a possibility. I don't know if it would work if the power gets halved. I also don't understand why you posted stuff about Fairy Glitter and Fairy Heart. Sorry.
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That's fair. I posted what I did about Glitter/Heart because Bluenote claimed Fairy Glitter "rivals" Fairy Law, hence why I posted it. Cana, when using Glitter, needed multiple shots of Fairy Glitter to take out Fairy Heart, & VsBattles Wikia tiers Heart as "At least 6-B".
Hence, isn't that something to look into to compare Fairy Law to?
Hence, isn't that something to look into to compare Fairy Law to?
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There's a person leave a message to me in other wiki. Look like he want to vote in here but he can't since he is blocked in this wiki. So I copy his message to here.
"On Laxus Dreyar vs Zapdos, I think Laxus will win and can you tell Imaginym that Laxus has fought a person who can absorb Lightning and can always use Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning? I would say this on the page but I am currently Blocked on VsBattle. HenryWong122 (talk) 09:59, April 19, 2017 (UTC)"
"On Laxus Dreyar vs Zapdos, I think Laxus will win and can you tell Imaginym that Laxus has fought a person who can absorb Lightning and can always use Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning? I would say this on the page but I am currently Blocked on VsBattle. HenryWong122 (talk) 09:59, April 19, 2017 (UTC)"
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Hmm, I don't remember how many. Maybe it would be on her article in the Fairy Tail Wiki?Imaginym said:
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If the banned dudes vote counts, Zapdos will get 7 votes while Laxus 2 votes.
But I'm sure they don't accept banned vote counts, cause obviously, they're banned
But I'm sure they don't accept banned vote counts, cause obviously, they're banned
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While Mercury Fulminate (AKA http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Raik%C3%B4%3A_Red_Lightning ) to bypass immunity & possibly be a stronger attack would be useful....
1. Assuming Zapdos has only 1 ability at a time, as opposed to what Cal proposed, only 1 of the 3 abilities supports Zapdos being immune to Lightning. Without Lightning Rod, Zapdos is hit neutrally by Lightning anyway.
2. Laxus's AP on his own profile here goes as high as "Small Island Level" & one of the reasons stated was destroying Assault Mode Wall's Body while severely weakened. Meanwhile, Zapdos's Durability rating is "At least Small Island level via power-scaling, likely Small Country level". Going purely by statistics, Small Island Level as his highest AP rating vs "At least Small Island Level" doesn't seem like Mercury Fulminate would be a big deal breaker.
3. Killing someone with lightning immunity via a form of lightning may not be equivalent to harming someone with enhanced durability, or a form of hax halving the damage of specific types of offense.
It should also be noted that it'd be worth trying to learn Fairy Heart's maximum tier, or a reasonable approximation, if we want to use it for scaling to Fairy Law. It's currently tiered at: Unknown, (at least 6-B in conjuction with Etherion) and that's because Etherion with FH could supposedly wipe out an entire country. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6_9Bbz-qha4/Ve0M-TJK0YI/AAAAAAACojc/5_V6DJYztCM/s16000-Ic42/012.jpg
Fairy Heart is said, by our own page, to be said to be superior to the 'Three Great Fairy Magics'. Being something to compare to FG (& thus Law), aside from the statement is that Cana had been using FG on it, needing multiple shots, & did eventually destroy it.
1. Assuming Zapdos has only 1 ability at a time, as opposed to what Cal proposed, only 1 of the 3 abilities supports Zapdos being immune to Lightning. Without Lightning Rod, Zapdos is hit neutrally by Lightning anyway.
2. Laxus's AP on his own profile here goes as high as "Small Island Level" & one of the reasons stated was destroying Assault Mode Wall's Body while severely weakened. Meanwhile, Zapdos's Durability rating is "At least Small Island level via power-scaling, likely Small Country level". Going purely by statistics, Small Island Level as his highest AP rating vs "At least Small Island Level" doesn't seem like Mercury Fulminate would be a big deal breaker.
3. Killing someone with lightning immunity via a form of lightning may not be equivalent to harming someone with enhanced durability, or a form of hax halving the damage of specific types of offense.
It should also be noted that it'd be worth trying to learn Fairy Heart's maximum tier, or a reasonable approximation, if we want to use it for scaling to Fairy Law. It's currently tiered at: Unknown, (at least 6-B in conjuction with Etherion) and that's because Etherion with FH could supposedly wipe out an entire country. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6_9Bbz-qha4/Ve0M-TJK0YI/AAAAAAACojc/5_V6DJYztCM/s16000-Ic42/012.jpg
Fairy Heart is said, by our own page, to be said to be superior to the 'Three Great Fairy Magics'. Being something to compare to FG (& thus Law), aside from the statement is that Cana had been using FG on it, needing multiple shots, & did eventually destroy it.
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^just a minor correction, Cana didn't destroy FH. If anything she freed it considering FH isn't the crystal but a source of infinite Magic power within Mavis' body
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Ah. Well, nonetheless, even if the crystal lacks a tier, & without knowing of other feats suggesting otherwise for Fairy Glitter.... http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fairy_Glitter
"Fairy Glitter is one of the three Great Magics of the Fairy Tail Guild and is sealed within Mavis' grave. According to Bluenote Stinger, it is a Magic that rivals Fairy Law and is a radiance of merciless light that denies the existence of nearby foes."
It's stated to rival Law (Albeit, by Bluenote.) & is one of the Three Great Fairy Magics along with Law. So I'd assume it's nonetheless comparable.
"Fairy Glitter is one of the three Great Magics of the Fairy Tail Guild and is sealed within Mavis' grave. According to Bluenote Stinger, it is a Magic that rivals Fairy Law and is a radiance of merciless light that denies the existence of nearby foes."
It's stated to rival Law (Albeit, by Bluenote.) & is one of the Three Great Fairy Magics along with Law. So I'd assume it's nonetheless comparable.
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bump!
Current score still
Zapdos:6
Laxus:2
Current score still
Zapdos:6
Laxus:2
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bumpp
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bumppp
