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Law and Doflamingo's Statistics need some changes.

CinCameron20

CinCameron20

5,107
1,786
Title says it all, but first, let's start with Doflamingo since his would be short and easy:

Doflamingo's change
Black Knight should have a "Likely Large Mountain level" rating for AP due to hurting Luffy on two on-panel occasions, and having fought him off-panel for a fair amount of time (the amount of time it took Doflamingo to defeat Law). Luffy's durability is scaled to High 7-A for taking hits from Fujitora, and a weakened Doflamingo who was still physically superior to his base and 2nd gear, so naturally, the Black Knight hurting Luffy should affect its AP. Naturally, this will not affect its durability.

Evidence: Slashing Luffy's back and drawing blood, and Stomping Luffy's face, causing him to spit up blood and leaving him staggered momentarily. Also, Luffy was visibly quite exhausted, as noted by Doflamingo, but this is already shown immediately after Luffy had defeated the Black Knight.

TL;DR, Black Knight would be "Likely Large Mountain level" in AP, but remain "Unknow" in Durability.

Law's change
Next is Law:

As briefly touched upon starting with this comment in another thread, Law's blade durability should likely be separated from his own body's durability. Also, as I was going to point out in the thread before it was closed, some people should REALLY consider re-reading what I post before immediately jumping to conclusions due to misunderstanding what is being phrased... Now, onto why Law's weapon durability needs to be changed.

Reasons: Law has fought Doflamingo, and we see several instances in which Law had taken hits directly with his body, and he is unable to withstand them

Needless to say, with the exception of Law using Haki to block Doflamingo's DF ability, he was incapable of withstanding any of these other attacks, so obviously his physical durability should not be affected.

Now onto the blade. We see it take numerous attacks from Doflamingo in quite a number of pages.

Someone argued that "Law must have been using Haki", but there's not once any implication of him using Busoshoku Haki on his blade, nor is it stated. I am aware he can use Busoshoku: Koka, as shown when he used it on his arms, but he is never shown applying the ability to an object like his clothing or his weapon. Not to mention that applying Haki to weaponry is only shown from a handful of characters--the exception to the rule being the Kuja warriors, all of which being trained with Haki since a young age. Hyo even notes the ability of transferring Haki as being an extension of Goken, which is stated by him as being quite an advanced ability.

Regardless, Law's blade did not chip, show any sign of damage, and took quite a LARGE number of attacks from Doflamingo, who is listed as having High 7-A AP. Therefore, Law's blade, according to the Durability and Attack Potency sections of our wiki, should have High 7-A Durability due to the following statements: "Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to withstand a certain amount of force" (The blade being able to withstand Doflamingo's attacks, which can hurt a character(s) with High 7-A Durability), and "A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces" (As noted, Doflamingo would have killed Sanji, and he hurt Luffy with his attacks. The same attacks that Law has been shown blocking with his sword. If we simply ignore the fact that Law's blade has shown higher durability to Law himself, we're saying Doflamingo has High 7-A feats, but can't even damage a 7-A+ weapon).

Therefore, Law's Durability should be listed as the following: "Mountain level+ (Same reasons as current), Large Mountain level with his Kikoku (Has blocked countless attacks from Doflamingo without any signs of chipping or damage while his body was incapable of withstanding any attack thrown at him without the use of Haki to protect himself)".
 
1. Thanks for all the links

2. Staggered and bleeding isn't a lot of damage by OP standards.

3. "which was heavily implied to be capable of killing Sanji, " where is the link for this?

4. Luffy was only staggered. not an overwhelming display of force there.

5. A blade cannot bleed.

6. I'm not sure I follow the BK logic. High 7-A for scaling to Luffy but Luffy only has high 7-A in Gear fourth If anything this is clear evidence BK is only 7-A+ since Luffy kept getting back up from minor injuries.

7. Also Duffy's profile is a little odd right now. Not sure when these changes occured with all the edits Calaca and others have been doing but it does seem off. You mention Issho but Issho is not actually rated as high 7-A right now. Duffy's profile also does not list Issho as a factor for his power level. Also why would Luffy have high 7-A durability when he long since has 7-A+ AP.
 
https://*****************/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-724-page-6.html

https://*****************/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-724-page-7.html

Sanji was gonna be killed by Doffy if Law didn't step in.
 
^Okay that seems fair. I agree it looked bad for Sanji. I also recognize this is a stationary target for Duffy to go for the head or something similar and Sanji is oly comparable to the 800 megations. Nothing puts him as Law's equal.
 
I agree with the Kikoku's scaling. The Black Knight's seems weird now that I give it a second reading.

But the Kikoku is legit able to take attacks from Doffy without showing a nick. Implying that it doesn't because swords can't bleed is ignorant of the fact that swords can break and the Kikoku isn't even scratched from attacks that Law himself has troubles dealing with. Doffy easily stomps him but he doesn't break the sword. There's a massive difference.
 
Btw Laws speed is currently outdated. He should have a possibly relativistic+ rating for keeping up with Doffy and reacting to his attacks. Cin and some others have agreed with this before and since this is about Law it's worth mentioning.

This would also affect Wano Zoro and Hawkins ratings.
 
Js250476 said:
Btw Laws speed is currently outdated. He should have a possibly relativistic+ rating for keeping up with Doffy and reacting to his attacks. Cin and some others have agreed with this before and since this is about Law it's worth mentioning.

This would also affect Wano Zoro and Hawkins ratings.
Click to expand...
Since it says on his page that he was able to keep up with both Law and Doflamingo, then shouldn't Trebol also be upgraded to At least MHS+, possibly Rel+? And if so, wouldn't Vergo, Diamante, and Pica get the same upgrade since all four scale to each other?
 
@Fix -

1. You're welcome :)

2. True, but Law was still pretty hurt by this attack (There's only a 3.5x difference between them at max, so I doubt one single blunt attack would do the job anyways). And I believe it was heavily implied from here that Doflamingo was capable of smashing Law's skull with a stomp had Luffy not stopped him.

3. While it wasn't outright stated, everyone there assumed Sanji was in a serious situation, and he looked almost horrified before Shambles saved him. But you seem to concede this point due to Js linking it.

4. He was bleeding from his mouth (or the blood switched from right to left because Oda forgets injuries), and the slash on the back still cut into him and caused bleeding. Not to mention his reaction of pain at that moment.

5. A blade can chip or snap when receiving enough force. It took attacks from a High 7-A for two fights, so it should really have the durability.

6. Luffy's Durability section lists the following: "Large Mountain level (Got up from attacks from a severely weakened Doflamingo [who has the capacity to take out the likes of Sanji and Smoker on a whim], and was capable of withstanding attacks from Issho (Admiral Fujitora) with no visible sign of injury)" - This is for Base Luffy. It's around base-line or the 1.9GT feat from Fujitora (the conclusion for which was accepted wasn't entirely clear to me since I think there were mixed opinions from staff).

7. I'm pretty certain someone was supposed to perform the edits (I thought Calaca said he was doing them??) and I thought they went through since Luffy's Dura was affected. My bad. I thought the profiles were updated due to the last discussion thread. I believe it was accepted that Fuji would at least be base-line High 7-A, or scale fully to his feat of 1.9GT, which Luffy in Gear 3rd and his base durability would scale to.

Edit: Uhm, yeah it looks like the edits weren't made. No wonder the confusion...
 
I'll probably make the edits when I can. I'm a little pre-occupied today and tomorrow.

@Roronoa - Vergo would be the only one to scale, and only with Soru since he's never been shown keeping up with Law otherwise (and blitzed him w/ Soru. He used Law's heart to keep him pinned in place).

Again, will work on the accepted edits whenever possible unless someone else handles it.
 
Isn't this the same case with all swords in One Piece? Swords block attacks the swordsmen would otherwise get damaged from. Most of Doffy's attacks are cutting and piercing based and while Law did get damaged from the kick he wasn't exactly taken out
 
2. I mean take any two people and have one of them prone on the gorund and I'm pretty sure the other would have an easy time stomping the face.

4. Again, a sword cannot bleed and a bit of blood isn't a major inury by OP standards

5. True, a sword can. But in cases like this i do not thik Duffy is sufficeitnly stronger to the point it would snap. It would just be a pain for Oda to have to fix Law's weapon anyway. Chips is more reasonable but again they're difficulty to draw tiny cracks in a skinny sword.

6 & 7 Yeah the profiles are kind of a mess. That is why I thought we were supposed to wait till a thread closed before edits were assigned and then made.
 
2. He meant Doffy breaking his skull, not stomping his face.

4. The amount of blood Law spits or even bleeds in every attack Doffy performs on him isn't a bit. Plus it happens quite often. Stop ignoring the point a sword breaking or being chiped.

5. The sword doesn't show any sign of damage either by drawings of via sound effects. It's simply not happening.
 
1. Skull, face, regardless the point of a prone target still stands. Duffy is even using CofA and Luffy is stoping him

2. I'm not going to argue the semantics of "a bit" with you. Point still stands

3. I mean, if the argument is chipping and ways to show that Cin can go for it. I'm giving feedback only on what he brought up.
 
1. IIRC he wasn't using Armament at all.

2. If every one of Doffy's attacks pierce Law's body and stagger and make him bleed then the 'bit of blood' is a massive lowball. Bit of blood is what the Biscuit Soldier had (jelly actually). A single kick from Doffy draws more blood than that.
 
Luffy is vulnerable to slashing attacks (along with most OP characters in general) and the Black Knight's stomp on him really doesn't look like significant enough damage to me for scaling.

You know, it's funny that Dressrosa is the one arc in One Piece that has the most problems and issues with scaling.
 
Just funny in a weird way. With a series as big as One Piece, you'd think the problems should be more spread out.
 
What's so different about Law's sword vs Doflamingo compared to swordsmen with swords of significant strength or status in the series in general? We saw this as early as the East Blue saga with Mihawk vs Zoro. Wado Ichimonji survived a slash from Mihawk capable of one shotting Zoro and his 2 regular swords. I'm not saying separating the keys for weapons is bad or anything, just it would have to be for characters like Zoro too. Shusui also gives him and/or his other 2 swords a stat amp, and it's durability has been noted as being exceptional even for OP standards despite the comparison of a dinosaur stepping on it being low comapred to feats of characters even of East Blue level lol.
 
@Fix -

2. He wasn't using Armament on the first attempt on Law's life. Law seemed pretty certain he was going to die right there.

4. We actually use the ability to make someone bleed an AP feat for a character if they hurt someone with x durability. And again, you're stating "a blade can't bleed" but that's not what's going to determine Durability. The blade wasn't chipped, scratched, or broken in any way. Doflamingo has High 7-A AP. The blade takes numerous attacks from him. The blade is not even damaged. The blade gets High 7-A Durability. We do the same thing for weapons that are given pages on this wiki, such as the ones from Fate, but that's one example. One Piece has at least one weapon page.

5. It's not like I'm saying Doffy would unquestionably destroy it in one or two hits (There's only around a 3.5x difference max, afterall), but the weapon took hits throughout 2 entire encounters with the guy, so it should be scaled if we see the blade has survived with naught but a scratch.

6/7. I am going to apply the High 7-A to Fujitora, but i forgot what else was discussed (I guess Law's speed, and Vergo's Soru speed)
 
@Jo - You are right that characters in One Piece with bladed weapons should actually have varying durability w/ their weaponry. Zoro's blade withstood an attack from Mihawk (although it obviously wasn't serious, so we'd probably scale it to 7-A+ at the most for durability since it has taken hits that otherwise could scratch Zoro even post time-skip, or even hurt him like when he fought Hawkins and Killer. AP is irrelevant since it relies heavily on the user's capability to wield it. A High 8-A could only apply that level of attack, while a 6-B might be able to apply 6-B w/ the blade, but possibly break it).

If anything, I would like to suggest making a single page with ALL named swords being in the page, and having a link directly to the weapon using the character's profile, and having the listed durability of the weapon there based on fights against x character.
 
>>If anything, I would like to suggest making a single page with ALL named swords being in the page, and having a link directly to the weapon using the character's profile, and having the listed durability of the weapon there based on fights against x character.

That would be quite the extensive page of work.

Anyway if you're argunent is that the blade should be "chipped" given multiple attks then that is different from snapping in half from few hits. My issue with the bleeding was that you posted scans of bleeding as proof when swords cannot bleed. I'm saying an Apples and oranges comparison is not a good comparison you know?

I still have no idea where you are getting 3.5 times from. As I understand it, Duffy would be 1.9 at best scaling to Issho's biggest calc. I do not recall that getting a lot of support in that other thread with @Damage saying Issho's normal ttacks don't scale or something to that affect.

My Suggestio

I think we need to fix the profiles confusion first. No point assigning high 7-A to Law's sword if Duffy should be 7-A+ or 6-C or some other stat entirely. Note this means an actual thread with official assignment of who's going to edit what and why. Too often lately someone just goes in and edits and I'm like "Was this approved? where is the link?". I just think that would be less confusing and more accurate way of bettering the profile descriptions.

I also suggest some prescedence be posted for how much damage a sword can take. In my experience a weapon doesn't break nearly as easily as it's weilder bleeds, but I could be wrong. Either way some examples need to be posted to estalish presedence.

P:S the first scan you posted showed Duffy's foot was blackened if you're wondering why I brought up Haki.
 
IIRC, Samurai clashes weren't as flashy as fiction usually depicts them. The blade is so thin that two or three clashes with another sword could snap the blade. If that happened with something that is similar or comparable to the katana, then a Doffy should have snap the Kikoku with one attack, at most two.
 
@Fix - Wait, when did i try to say the sword was bleeding (or made a comparison, idk)? I'm incredibly confused. But regardless of chipping or snapping, it was virtually unscathed. I'd be skeptical if the blade was even slightly damaged, but not even a mark on it when Doflamingo has been seen slicing swords, guns and steel structures like nothing?

Also, if it's a big chore to make one page for all the named blades we actually KNOW about (or make a profile for each, but i think that would be unnecessary), I can start a small project on it myself and have a few members here provide feedback on what works, and if any changes are needed. The bare minimum is to at least note if there's a durability or AP difference depending on weaponry like most other profiles do.

I'm saying a 3.5x difference, but i forgot where exactly Bound Man Luffy scales, and while we know Doffy to be weaker, he isn't far off him since he held his own in his condition (If I hear the "Luffy was much more exhausted than Doffy" argument from anyone in this thread, I. Swear. To. Gawd). Anyways, Doffy is at least 1.9GT due to being ridiculously above Gear 2nd, and also above Gear 3rd Luffy, and also reasoning regarding Fujitora (mostly pertaining to his inability to destroy the cage, or stop it for more than a moment even w/ help), but below wherever G4 Luffy is.

I thought it more important to show the panels where Doffy outright said he was going to smash Law's skull, but i guess it would've been far less confusing to use the initial kick where he wasn't using Haki and Law broke down, screaming.
 
> Anyways, Doffy is at least 1.9GT due to being ridiculously above Gear 2nd, and also above Gear 3rd Luffy

I disagree with this. His AP is above Luffy's Gear 2nd, but nothing really indicates his AP generally being superior to Luffy's Gear 3 (which currently scales to baseline High 7-A).
 
BUMP

So, what the situation with Black Knight's Durability

And with Doflamingo's new stats, how does that affect Law's Sword durability
 
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