Kokushibo vs Guts

[Chariot190]

I mean once he know what Guts can capable do, Koku can just switch to ranged fight, the distance wouldn't be 10 meters forever

That's acting like Guts just stands there and lets him create a gap, he's gonna try to close the gap, if he doesn't, it's because he pissed off to set up a trap or to bait his foe, Guts might even just wait till morning and try and blow a hole in the roof of the cave, Guts is well aware that (some) demons exist that vanish in the light of the morning sun, he unironically, deals with it every night, or well, he did for 2 years straight. But it's one or the other, Guts won't stay in mid range where he'd be beaten, he isn't dumb.

First off, has it ever reduced anyone comparable to guts to a puddle? Cause kokushibo is not even 2x weaker than guts, and even though guts upscales in his berserk armor, kokushibo does too by a huge margin, the gaps between upper moons are big. Second off how large is the cannon? Isn't it a built in thing in his mecha arm? Even if it reduces the portion of kokushibo that it hits to puddle he'd still regen nigh instantly because the portion he'd bust is small.

It's blown dudes comparable to him into bloody chunks at least, puddle was me being hyperbolic (or well, partially, a bloody mess on the ground is more apt) though I clarified chunks later down in the post anyway. And fyi, Guts with the armor is so much stronger than his base state, that if Armored Guts were to hit base Guts, base Guts would be turned into mincemeat. Koku is almost 2x weaker than Base Guts. Not Armored Guts. Armored Guts>>>>Guts>>Mozgus>Guts but earlier.
The cannon is the size of his palm, no, it wouldn't just create a palm sized hole, it's being launched with so much energy that on impact it blows the dude it hit the **** up. Same mechanics as a high cal bullet, tiny object, but it has so much energy that it pops whatever it hits like a balloon.
Guts can also use the cannon to launch himself via the firing of it, accelerating himself through it's energy and increasing his momentum, can be used to increase the power of a slash too.

The second screenshot takes place just like a second after the first because gyomei's ball hasn't even returned to his hand yet, so yes he can regen a large portion of his body night instantly.

That's heavy body damage, but I mean like, blown to bits. or like having his entire torso blown the **** out. If it takes even a second, Guts can easily clear 10m in that timeframe (He doesn't even need to clear 10, he just needs to clear like 8m, given his blade alone makes up that last little bit).

Its not about strength or guts will, Kokushibo's STW lets him know your move before you even make the move as stated by gyomei and lets you percept things slower than before, its also an amp to speed and a decent one at that, Like my example from above, Akaza was toying with tanjiro pre STW and then when he unlocked it he was able to attack akaza when he was in the midst of an attack and akaza was shocked which could possibly imply he wasn't able to react but I'm not too sure.

It kinda is, that shit ain't infallible, it definitely helps but we're talking about a massive 2m long blade that's half a body thick, even if you know it's coming, even if you're faster than it, the size alone makes dodging difficult, especially when Guts himself is mixing in other weapons and attacks in there too, forcing him to dodge not just the sword swings, but other shit as well. I mean, if you know you're gonna get shot, it doesn't mean you can dodge the bullet even if you know it's coming, of course that's not a very good analogy but you get my point (I guess a better one is if you know a truck is coming, due to the size).

And mind you, the armor speed amps Guts as well, he starts off in Base here, but can go into armor, thus his armor speed amp should be applicable once he enters it (Though, I'm not sure how much the armor speed amps, the power amp is pretty straightforward, but the speed amp is a bit vague). Either way they both have some degree of speed increasing.

Also, would like to point out, that Guts won't give a shit if he loses entire limbs making his way to Koku, but if Koku gets tagged, that's permanent damage, Guts, oddly enough, out regens here in regards to being able to take the others blows.

 

[Chariot190]

I'd also point how Guts' dragon slayer is the only thing in his whole arsenal capable of taking kokushibo down, not only does this cut down his versatility as he'll be forced to use that sword the whole time and everything else is obsolete, Also if that sword ever breaks in the midst of the fight (Which is possible unless the sword has higher dura than guts himself) then there goes his only chance of winning

sword
breaks

Literally nobody in Demon Slayer could break it unless they got upgraded while I wasn't looking, hell nothing in Berserk could break it (excluding the literal Gods), that sword is stupid durable for some reason.

Speaking of, Guts can and has used his blade as a defensive measure, using it to block incoming attacks as the blade's girth is basically Gut's own body in height and width.

So why couldn't Guts use that to just, completely render Koku's range game obsolete?

 

[Razor]

That's acting like Guts just stands there and lets him create a gap, he's gonna try to close the gap, if he doesn't, it's because he pissed off to set up a trap or to bait his foe, Guts might even just wait till morning and try and blow a hole in the roof of the cave, Guts is well aware that (some) demons exist that vanish in the light of the morning sun, he unironically, deals with it every night, or well, he did for 2 years straight. But it's one or the other, Guts won't stay in mid range where he'd be beaten, he isn't dumb.

It's blown dudes comparable to him into bloody chunks at least, puddle was me being hyperbolic (or well, partially, a bloody mess on the ground is more apt) though I clarified chunks later down in the post anyway. And fyi, Guts with the armor is so much stronger than his base state, that if Armored Guts were to hit base Guts, base Guts would be turned into mincemeat. Koku is almost 2x weaker than Base Guts. Not Armored Guts. Armored Guts>>>>Guts>>Mozgus>Guts but earlier.
The cannon is the size of his palm, no, it wouldn't just create a palm sized hole, it's being launched with so much energy that on impact it blows the dude it hit the **** up. Same mechanics as a high cal bullet, tiny object, but it has so much energy that it pops whatever it hits like a balloon.
Guts can also use the cannon to launch himself via the firing of it, accelerating himself through it's energy and increasing his momentum, can be used to increase the power of a slash too.



That's heavy body damage, but I mean like, blown to bits. or like having his entire torso blown the **** out. If it takes even a second, Guts can easily clear 10m in that timeframe (He doesn't even need to clear 10, he just needs to clear like 8m, given his blade alone makes up that last little bit).



It kinda is, that shit ain't infallible, it definitely helps but we're talking about a massive 2m long blade that's half a body thick, even if you know it's coming, even if you're faster than it, the size alone makes dodging difficult, especially when Guts himself is mixing in other weapons and attacks in there too, forcing him to dodge not just the sword swings, but other shit as well. I mean, if you know you're gonna get shot, it doesn't mean you can dodge the bullet even if you know it's coming, of course that's not a very good analogy but you get my point (I guess a better one is if you know a truck is coming, due to the size).

And mind you, the armor speed amps Guts as well, he starts off in Base here, but can go into armor, thus his armor speed amp should be applicable once he enters it (Though, I'm not sure how much the armor speed amps, the power amp is pretty straightforward, but the speed amp is a bit vague). Either way they both have some degree of speed increasing.

Also, would like to point out, that Guts won't give a shit if he loses entire limbs making his way to Koku, but if Koku gets tagged, that's permanent damage, Guts, oddly enough, out regens here in regards to being able to take the others blows.

He'd also have to deal with the kokushibo's moon breathing while far from range, and his breath of the moon forms takes no time, no stance or anything like that, he just swings and he could make a hundred meter wide blade attack with crescent shaped blades on top of them with change in size and speed. Guts can't close the gap easily if at all. And even if he did, kokushibo makes a gap again, hits, guts closes the gap, koku creates one, hits and so on. Not like kokushibo is gonna let him do that. The cave is also 817 ft underground. No he isn't almost 2x, The gap is less than 1.5x, Its somewhere like 1.2x and even then kokushibo massively upscales. and can I see his cannon blowing someone comparable to him in bloody chunks? That won't help unless that boosts his speed to like 5x or something because of STW.


Like his whole body? Cause I doubt guts can blow his whole body to bits, Also no it doesn't take a second and even if it did its not like kokushibo has to stop when regenerating, he'd be able to run away from the sword whilst he's regenerating.

I know guts sword is incredibly big, But Kokushibo's senses isn't gonna allow guts to just swing that, Also kokushibo has to do is swing his blade which in itself can create a gap, or dodge guts slash and then jump back, he can also slice mid air, the slashes can push guts back or heavily damage him. guts regen isn't that potent, its low-mid plus he doesn't have an endless supply of what can make him regen so it wouldn't be much of a factor. Also how can he attack with the sword whilst attacking with other stuff? And the sword is the only thing koku has to dodge, everything else doesn't matter, he can straight up tank them and just regen. A truck moves faster than a human and even then a human would be able to dodge a truck if the truck is far enough, Plus the STW doesn't just let you see attacks incoming, It lets you see them before the opponent initiates them and when they do initiate it you'll see the attack in slow motion.

OP didn't say whether he starts in it or not, and SBA says the character is the strongest form they have meaning guts is in his berserk armor from the get go.

I am aware just from reading the profiles but the same goes for kokushibo too, Every attack he lands is permanent damage and guts' regen is exhaustable and not that potent to begin with. And kokushibo also has an immense pain tolerance, he basically had a tree growing from inside his body and the tree grows by sucking his blood yet he wasn't fazed by it.

Literally nobody in Demon Slayer could break it unless they got upgraded while I wasn't looking, hell nothing in Berserk could break it (excluding the literal Gods), that sword is stupid durable for some reason.

Speaking of, Guts can and has used his blade as a defensive measure, using it to block incoming attacks as the blade's girth is basically Gut's own body in height and width.

So why couldn't Guts use that to just, completely render Koku's range game obsolete?

Cause the sword ain't omnirdirectional. It'll block the attack of whatever he places the sword like infront of him or something but he'll still get hit from the back, also I thought this guts is berserk? Why would he go into the defensive? And his profile doesn't note that his swords durability is higher than his either, it not breaking could just be PiS unless its outright stated that his sword is like way more durable than anybody in the series

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah i can confirm it that the Dragon Slayer is pretty much unbreakable, kinda NLF but thats what it is

 

[Razor]

He'd also have to deal with the kokushibo's moon breathing while far from range, and his breath of the moon forms takes no time, no stance or anything like that, he just swings and he could make a hundred meter wide blade attack with crescent shaped blades on top of them with change in size and speed. Guts can't close the gap easily if at all. And even if he did, kokushibo makes a gap again, hits, guts closes the gap, koku creates one, hits and so on. Not like kokushibo is gonna let him do that. The cave is also 817 ft underground. No he isn't almost 2x, The gap is less than 1.5x, Its somewhere like 1.2x and even then kokushibo massively upscales. and can I see his cannon blowing someone comparable to him in bloody chunks? That won't help unless that boosts his speed to like 5x or something because of STW.


Like his whole body? Cause I doubt guts can blow his whole body to bits, Also no it doesn't take a second and even if it did its not like kokushibo has to stop when regenerating, he'd be able to run away from the sword whilst he's regenerating.

I know guts sword is incredibly big, But Kokushibo's senses isn't gonna allow guts to just swing that, Also kokushibo has to do is swing his blade which in itself can create a gap, or dodge guts slash and then jump back, he can also slice mid air, the slashes can push guts back or heavily damage him. guts regen isn't that potent, its low-mid plus he doesn't have an endless supply of what can make him regen so it wouldn't be much of a factor. Also how can he attack with the sword whilst attacking with other stuff? And the sword is the only thing koku has to dodge, everything else doesn't matter, he can straight up tank them and just regen. A truck moves faster than a human and even then a human would be able to dodge a truck if the truck is far enough, Plus the STW doesn't just let you see attacks incoming, It lets you see them before the opponent initiates them and when they do initiate it you'll see the attack in slow motion.

OP didn't say whether he starts in it or not, and SBA says the character is the strongest form they have meaning guts is in his berserk armor from the get go.

I am aware just from reading the profiles but the same goes for kokushibo too, Every attack he lands is permanent damage and guts' regen is exhaustable and not that potent to begin with. And kokushibo also has an immense pain tolerance, he basically had a tree growing from inside his body and the tree grows by sucking his blood yet he wasn't fazed by it.

Cause the sword ain't omnirdirectional. It'll block the attack of whatever he places the sword like infront of him or something but he'll still get hit from the back, also I thought this guts is berserk? Why would he go into the defensive? And his profile doesn't note that his swords durability is higher than his either, it not breaking could just be PiS unless its outright stated that his sword is like way more durable than anybody in the series

Also Can't the armor just break mid fight? His regen is for his skin right? Not his armor. So his armor will break eventually because the armor isn't that much stronger than kokushibo, Kokushibo can just spam his moon breathing blades and eventually break the armor which will lower guts' stats and make his stamina not as impressive

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well, since this match running well (hopefully not turned into stomp), i'm going to updating the OP with the summary

 

[Razor]

I don't think its a stomp but guts is gonna have a really hard time hitting kokushibo with all the shit he has, and kokushibo will play the range game and with his spammable danmaku that covers a huge range guts will go down before he kills kokushibo in my opinion, Kokushibo's gonna be reading guts' moves like a book and seeing them in slow motion, there isn't really a weak spot for guts to hit kokushibo but guts can win if he lands a few hits, I just think kokushibo winning is likelier, his senses and predictions are kinda broken

 

[Chariot190]

He'd also have to deal with the kokushibo's moon breathing while far from range,

Lad they start 10m apart. Stop acting like they're actually far apart.

and his breath of the moon forms takes no time, no stance or anything like that, he just swings and he could make a hundred meter wide blade attack with crescent shaped blades on top of them with change in size and speed.

He literally can't, his range is just tens of meters, not a hundred meter+, and most of his attacks are quite easily blocked by DS, he doesn't have any huge giga AOE attacked that could engulf not only the front of Guts, but also the back, at the same time, or well, not at range anyway from what I can see.

Guts can't close the gap easily if at all.

Literally can, just use his DS to block incoming attacks, it's not even out of character for Guts, he may as well be able to walk straight through it.

And even if he did, kokushibo makes a gap again, hits, guts closes the gap, koku creates one, hits and so on.

He's not hitting Guts unless he gets close to Guts where Guts decides to change tactics from "use shield, get close", to "attack him". And you're acting as if few stray hits will even do anything to Guts, ****, Guts has actual magic healing items on him to begin with, he can take quite a bit of punishment even without the armor due to Puck's dust that he keeps in a little bag.

Hell I'd argue Koku doing nothing but playing range would backfire even.

Not like kokushibo is gonna let him do that.

Not like Koku could stop him.

The cave is also 817 ft underground.

So? What's stopping Guts from leading him elsewhere? He does stuff like that all the time. Hell, that might not even be a good thing, Guts ain't no stranger to cave ins.

No he isn't almost 2x, The gap is less than 1.5x, Its somewhere like 1.2x and even then kokushibo massively upscales. and can I see his cannon blowing someone comparable to him in bloody chunks? That won't help unless that boosts his speed to like 5x or something because of STW.

A gap is a gap, Guts upscales quite a bit off the character who did that feat at this point in the story, then slap on a armor that allows him to shred those who were previously strong enough to beat him into the dirt, it's quite big, and I know Koku upscales off his value, but Guts at his best straight up pulvs those who scaled to his value. And maybe? I'll have to look through the manga as I don't know the chapter numbers off by hand, though I know where two scenes in particular are of the cannon blowing like, a human sized hole through a big ass monster if you want that? (Or at least close, pretty sure he blows a hole through some tentacle thing on the boat arc).

Like his whole body? Cause I doubt guts can blow his whole body to bits, Also no it doesn't take a second and even if it did its not like kokushibo has to stop when regenerating, he'd be able to run away from the sword whilst he's regenerating.

It blows holes the size of this dude through monsters that dwarf Guts. I'd be surprised if it wasn't his whole body. Hell, Guts Dragon Slayer also may as well be total body destruction, when he swings it it completely shreds those it hits. A second half a second, even 0.001 seconds, don't really care, my point stands, it's not truly instant. No, if he gets to the point he has to regenerate from a sword strike at all, he'd have already lost, because he isn't regenerating, he'd be ****** if Guts lands any solid hit with the Dragon Slayer, he'd be permanently wounded.

OP didn't say whether he starts in it or not, and SBA says the character is the strongest form they have meaning guts is in his berserk armor from the get go.

Op LITERALLY did say though, starts off as Black Swordsmen, but can go Berserker Armor. Literally in the OP lad.

I know guts sword is incredibly big, But Kokushibo's senses isn't gonna allow guts to just swing that,

Koku's senses don't have a choice in the matter, having good senses doesn't stop someone else from doing something.

Also kokushibo has to do is swing his blade which in itself can create a gap, or dodge guts slash and then jump back,

Lad, Guts sword is literally larger than Koku's entire body, I don't think you quite get how tall Guts is, he's like 7ft tall almost, and his blade just as long. And he jumps back, and Guts jumps forward, not really rocket science, especially given Guts extreme athletic and acrobatic ability.

he can also slice mid air, the slashes can push guts back or heavily damage him.

So can Guts though? That's not an advantage? They both have that.

guts regen isn't that potent, its low-mid plus he doesn't have an endless supply of what can make him regen so it wouldn't be much of a factor.

Guts healing shit is potent enough to heal heavy gashes, stab wounds, burns and more.
The armor itself makes it so unless he's basically mincemeat and not a single drop of blood is left, he'd still fight and the armor will pull his torn mangled body back together. And yes, low-mid, that's enough to survive and heal slashes, stab wounds and the like, which is what Koku does. It's a huge factor when your opponent's vast majority of attacks only deals damage on that caliber.

Also how can he attack with the sword whilst attacking with other stuff?

Because his other stuff is built into his hand? And he can swing his sword one handed? It's like asking why a dude with two guns in both hands could shoot twice at the same time.

And the sword is the only thing koku has to dodge, everything else doesn't matter, he can straight up tank them and just regen.

He could, though being blown in half, even if he can heal it, is still a fraction of a second wasted falling or healing.

A truck moves faster than a human and even then a human would be able to dodge a truck if the truck is far enough, Plus the STW doesn't just let you see attacks incoming, It lets you see them before the opponent initiates them and when they do initiate it you'll see the attack in slow motion.

I hope to god you can see a truck lad, they ain't THAT fast. And yeah, if they're far enough, they start off 10 meters apart dude, not 100, Koku has very, very, little breathing room here. The match has to start and he must IMMEDIATELY do absolutely everything in his power to get the **** away, if he so much as decides to cqc Guts at the start, which I mean, he doesn't know about Guts super deadly shit right off the bat, he's bound to find out, but he ain't coming into this prepared, if he does that, he's already lost. Except Guts can just enclose the distance to so whatever.

I'm aware of what it does dude, knowing something is coming, even if it's slow motion doesn't always mean you can dodge it, if he knows like 10 bolts, a canon, and a handful of pocket bombs are incoming as well as a huge **** off sword, yeah, he'd know, but that doesn't mean he can just instantly avoid all of them, he still has to actually avoid them, and he might, and he might be able to a handful of times, but sooner or later, after all, all Guts needs is one solid hit and he wins this match.

I am aware just from reading the profiles but the same goes for kokushibo too, Every attack he lands is permanent damage and guts' regen is exhaustable and not that potent to begin with. And kokushibo also has an immense pain tolerance, he basically had a tree growing from inside his body and the tree grows by sucking his blood yet he wasn't fazed by it.

It isn't permanent though, Guts can take days worth of damage, as long as he lives to the end, he can use his dank stash of fairy dust to heal him back to at least survivable conditions, that's assuming Guts isn't cognizant either in his Armor, which he might be able to pull off, though without Schierke I doubt it so ignore that, either way.

And what's pain tolerance gotta do with anything? They both are very obviously not gonna give a **** about the damage they take? It's not even worth mentioning, though pain tolerance ain't gonna help if he gets bisected, or has his limbs cut off, and now he doesnt have any ever again.

Cause the sword ain't omnirdirectional. It'll block the attack of whatever he places the sword like infront of him or something but he'll still get hit from the back, also I thought this guts is berserk?

No, it's just super massive and can effectively cover the majority of Guts' body, so unless Koku is attacking Guts from behind for some reason, which he ain't, sword is gonna work just fine. And no he starts off in Blackswordsman here, but can go Berserk if needed, though Guts in his Berserk state isn't stupid anyway, he's smart still, he's just ******* insane if that makes any sense? Like he still has his intellect, but it's all directed to "kill everything", he can still whip out some pretty clever moves while in this state, he just isnt gonna take time to formulate huge plans or give a shit about consequences of actions.

Why would he go into the defensive? And his profile doesn't note that his swords durability is higher than his either, it not breaking could just be PiS unless its outright stated that his sword is like way more durable than anybody in the series

Because it's easy, smart and something he's done before?
It's not PIS, it's ******* stupid durable, they even used that to their advantage once by using it as a conduit for some fire spell to vaporize this water monster.
Also because Guts profile is pretty outdated but that ain't my problem, think it used to be rated anyway.

Also Can't the armor just break mid fight? His regen is for his skin right? Not his armor. So his armor will break eventually because the armor isn't that much stronger than kokushibo, Kokushibo can just spam his moon breathing blades and eventually break the armor which will lower guts' stats and make his stamina not as impressive

The armor has regen too lad, it's what pulls Guts body together in the first place, it's some weird black magic armor that can shapeshift. And no, it isn't breaking, if characters an absolutely fuckton stronger than Guts even in the armor have yet to even damage it to any meaningful extent, Koku sure as hell ain't destroying it. It's lucky as it is that Berserk actually follows logic and extreme impacts still damage Guts inside the armor even if the armor itself isn't even scratched. (The only damage I can even recall it ever having took is a puncture wound from a giant house sized whale thing).


Anyway to summarize. Guts starts off in base, but can go armor if needed or forced.

Armor does speed amp (though not sure by how much, he has a different rating for it on the profile anyway so at least we accept he's a bit faster).

Guts' sword works just fine as a makeshift shield, and nothing Koku has can actually damage it all, this allows Guts to safely close the distance and protect and cover himself with attacks.

Koku's range isnt even that large, it's only tens of meters max according to the profile.

A single direct hit defeats Koku, he cant get passed built in soul hax.

Guts has ample weaponry to at least distract him momentarily.

Guts won't stop fighting till the last drop of his blood is gone, and he can take such a ridiculous amount of damage it's not even funny, and while Koku could do the same too, that's only under normal circumstances, as mentioned, in this instance, one good hit is all that's needed and even the smallest damage from DS is permanent.

Guts has some pocket sand that can heal some wounds, fortunately, his opponent uses mostly slash and bladed attacks, things that fit within Guts paygrade, if Guts can survive to land just a single hard hit in, he can use that pocket sand to put him in at least stable condition post match.

Also acrobatics and huge leaps and shit, Guts goes hard when berserk, and pre Berserk, he's extremely cunning and well within the realm of playing dirty.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't think its a stomp but guts is gonna have a really hard time hitting kokushibo with all the shit he has, and kokushibo will play the range game and with his spammable danmaku that covers a huge range guts will go down before he kills kokushibo in my opinion, Kokushibo's gonna be reading guts' moves like a book and seeing them in slow motion, there isn't really a weak spot for guts to hit kokushibo but guts can win if he lands a few hits, I just think kokushibo winning is likelier, his senses and predictions are kinda broken

Lad, Koku's range doesn't even work, Guts could straight up just hold DS out and walk through the incoming attacks like he had an impenetrable riot shield.

Koku is unironically better off straight up fleeing, or trying to lure Guts into a trap, then just using danmaku and hoping it works eventually.

 

[Razor]

Lad they start 10m apart. Stop acting like they're actually far apart.



He literally can't, his range is just tens of meters, not a hundred meter+, and most of his attacks are quite easily blocked by DS, he doesn't have any huge giga AOE attacked that could engulf not only the front of Guts, but also the back, at the same time, or well, not at range anyway from what I can see.



Literally can, just use his DS to block incoming attacks, it's not even out of character for Guts, he may as well be able to walk straight through it.



He's not hitting Guts unless he gets close to Guts where Guts decides to change tactics from "use shield, get close", to "attack him". And you're acting as if few stray hits will even do anything to Guts, ****, Guts has actual magic healing items on him to begin with, he can take quite a bit of punishment even without the armor due to Puck's dust that he keeps in a little bag.

Hell I'd argue Koku doing nothing but playing range would backfire even.



Not like Koku could stop him.



So? What's stopping Guts from leading him elsewhere? He does stuff like that all the time. Hell, that might not even be a good thing, Guts ain't no stranger to cave ins.



A gap is a gap, Guts upscales quite a bit off the character who did that feat at this point in the story, then slap on a armor that allows him to shred those who were previously strong enough to beat him into the dirt, it's quite big, and I know Koku upscales off his value, but Guts at his best straight up pulvs those who scaled to his value. And maybe? I'll have to look through the manga as I don't know the chapter numbers off by hand, though I know where two scenes in particular are of the cannon blowing like, a human sized hole through a big ass monster if you want that? (Or at least close, pretty sure he blows a hole through some tentacle thing on the boat arc).



It blows holes the size of this dude through monsters that dwarf Guts. I'd be surprised if it wasn't his whole body. Hell, Guts Dragon Slayer also may as well be total body destruction, when he swings it it completely shreds those it hits. A second half a second, even 0.001 seconds, don't really care, my point stands, it's not truly instant. No, if he gets to the point he has to regenerate from a sword strike at all, he'd have already lost, because he isn't regenerating, he'd be ****** if Guts lands any solid hit with the Dragon Slayer, he'd be permanently wounded.



Op LITERALLY did say though, starts off as Black Swordsmen, but can go Berserker Armor. Literally in the OP lad.



Koku's senses don't have a choice in the matter, having good senses doesn't stop someone else from doing something.



Lad, Guts sword is literally larger than Koku's entire body, I don't think you quite get how tall Guts is, he's like 7ft tall almost, and his blade just as long. And he jumps back, and Guts jumps forward, not really rocket science, especially given Guts extreme athletic and acrobatic ability.



So can Guts though? That's not an advantage? They both have that.



Guts healing shit is potent enough to heal heavy gashes, stab wounds, burns and more.
The armor itself makes it so unless he's basically mincemeat and not a single drop of blood is left, he'd still fight and the armor will pull his torn mangled body back together. And yes, low-mid, that's enough to survive and heal slashes, stab wounds and the like, which is what Koku does. It's a huge factor when your opponent's vast majority of attacks only deals damage on that caliber.



Because his other stuff is built into his hand? And he can swing his sword one handed? It's like asking why a dude with two guns in both hands could shoot twice at the same time.



He could, though being blown in half, even if he can heal it, is still a fraction of a second wasted falling or healing.



I hope to god you can see a truck lad, they ain't THAT fast. And yeah, if they're far enough, they start off 10 meters apart dude, not 100, Koku has very, very, little breathing room here. The match has to start and he must IMMEDIATELY do absolutely everything in his power to get the **** away, if he so much as decides to cqc Guts at the start, which I mean, he doesn't know about Guts super deadly shit right off the bat, he's bound to find out, but he ain't coming into this prepared, if he does that, he's already lost. Except Guts can just enclose the distance to so whatever.

I'm aware of what it does dude, knowing something is coming, even if it's slow motion doesn't always mean you can dodge it, if he knows like 10 bolts, a canon, and a handful of pocket bombs are incoming as well as a huge **** off sword, yeah, he'd know, but that doesn't mean he can just instantly avoid all of them, he still has to actually avoid them, and he might, and he might be able to a handful of times, but sooner or later, after all, all Guts needs is one solid hit and he wins this match.



It isn't permanent though, Guts can take days worth of damage, as long as he lives to the end, he can use his dank stash of fairy dust to heal him back to at least survivable conditions, that's assuming Guts isn't cognizant either in his Armor, which he might be able to pull off, though without Schierke I doubt it so ignore that, either way.

And what's pain tolerance gotta do with anything? They both are very obviously not gonna give a **** about the damage they take? It's not even worth mentioning, though pain tolerance ain't gonna help if he gets bisected, or has his limbs cut off, and now he doesnt have any ever again.



No, it's just super massive and can effectively cover the majority of Guts' body, so unless Koku is attacking Guts from behind for some reason, which he ain't, sword is gonna work just fine. And no he starts off in Blackswordsman here, but can go Berserk if needed, though Guts in his Berserk state isn't stupid anyway, he's smart still, he's just ******* insane if that makes any sense? Like he still has his intellect, but it's all directed to "kill everything", he can still whip out some pretty clever moves while in this state, he just isnt gonna take time to formulate huge plans or give a shit about consequences of actions.



Because it's easy, smart and something he's done before?
It's not PIS, it's ******* stupid durable, they even used that to their advantage once by using it as a conduit for some fire spell to vaporize this water monster.
Also because Guts profile is pretty outdated but that ain't my problem, think it used to be rated anyway.


The armor has regen too lad, it's what pulls Guts body together in the first place, it's some weird black magic armor that can shapeshift. And no, it isn't breaking, if characters an absolutely fuckton stronger than Guts even in the armor have yet to even damage it to any meaningful extent, Koku sure as hell ain't destroying it. It's lucky as it is that Berserk actually follows logic and extreme impacts still damage Guts inside the armor even if the armor itself isn't even scratched. (The only damage I can even recall it ever having took is a puncture wound from a giant house sized whale thing).


Anyway to summarize. Guts starts off in base, but can go armor if needed or forced.

Armor does speed amp (though not sure by how much, he has a different rating for it on the profile anyway so at least we accept he's a bit faster).

Guts' sword works just fine as a makeshift shield, and nothing Koku has can actually damage it all, this allows Guts to safely close the distance and protect and cover himself with attacks.

Koku's range isnt even that large, it's only tens of meters max according to the profile.

A single direct hit defeats Koku, he cant get passed built in soul hax.

Guts has ample weaponry to at least distract him momentarily.

Guts won't stop fighting till the last drop of his blood is gone, and he can take such a ridiculous amount of damage it's not even funny, and while Koku could do the same too, that's only under normal circumstances, as mentioned, in this instance, one good hit is all that's needed and even the smallest damage from DS is permanent.

Guts has some pocket sand that can heal some wounds, fortunately, his opponent uses mostly slash and bladed attacks, things that fit within Guts paygrade, if Guts can survive to land just a single hard hit in, he can use that pocket sand to put him in at least stable condition post match.

Also acrobatics and huge leaps and shit, Guts goes hard when berserk, and pre Berserk, he's extremely cunning and well within the realm of playing dirty.

I never did, I explicitly stated how kokushibo can make a gap. I never said they just start far from each other form the get go I said kokushibo will be able to create a gap between them.

Tens of meters could involve 70 meters and such, also.

he does

Why not? Did you ignore like the 3 scans I sent of his AoE being ridiculously large? I never stated a few hits is going to do anything either, But guts wouldn't be able to hit him since he's at long range and even in close range kokushibo still has a fuckton of senses that guts can't bypass, he doesn't have any danmaku or AoE he literally just swings a sword, Kokushibo knows your attack before you initiate it, can see slowmotion with STW and has Six eyes, can sprout eyes from his blades AND can cover his body with said blades with every eye on his blades having STW and can see guts at slow mo.

How so?

He can, He absolutely can. 1 He has higher LS so he could knock him back, He could jump and fight guts from there, and the cave is 800+ ft underground and thats at the upper most part of the cave, kokushibo can just go deeper into the cave.

I thought guts is berseker? I don't think he'll use tactics or would he magically know kokushibo is weak to sunlight, Plus kokushibo isn't dumb enough to follow him wherever he goes.

A gap also has levels and the gap here is hella small, its not even 1.5x, you're acting like guts is two times stronger than kokushibo or something. Kokushibo also upscales a lot from douma, the dude who performed the 8-A feat, He did it while also severely poisoned and even then it was casual for him. Kokushibo also rips douma to shreds just by scaling, cause Casual Kokushibo >>>> Gyomei and sanemi as a team >> Gyomei individually >>>>>>> Kanao and inosuke ~ Poisoned douma (The multiple arrows are there to indicate the gap, more arrows = bigger gap). Yeah that'd be nice to see.

I'd like to see that. And also kokushibo would likely see it coming too, and he doesn't have any trouble dodging multiple projectiles at once. Kokushibo isn't that far off from guts in AP, Guts isn't one shotting him or anything and guts hitting kokushibo is also very rare, I've explained kokushibo's senses a ton of times. I can't see how guts is bypassing his senses. It doesn't, If it takes that much of time then guts isn't slicing his sword before he regens and like I said he doesn't need to stop to regen he can dodge while regenerating. But the problem is how is guts gonna hit kokushibo with his senses. and the same goes for guts too. He can only regen a couple of times too.

Yes he said that the guts being used is black swordsman which is the same guts as berserk armor guts but berserk armor guts just has the armor, He didn't say whether or not guts starts with it or not he just said its unrestricted, that could also mean he just starts with it off rip.

Wdym? If you have good senses then you can prevent someone from hitting you, its simple, and kokushibo's senses are ridiculous, good senses does matter, I never said kokushibo will physically stop guts with his senses but he wouldn't get hit.

Scan? I know its long but is it that wide? Cause if its just long then kokushibo can either duck. Plus even in CQC how is koku hitting him, guts will basically move at slow motion for him and he would have eyes everywhere, Kokushibo would be faster with the STW Activated so Guts can't just pursue him easily when he tries to make a gap. tanjiro states that the STW boosts the speed dramatically, and I gave an example on how the STW can cover the gap of getting toyed around with to the same person toying with you now not being able to react to you.

Does guts' slashes produce tens of meter long slashes along with little crescent shaped blades that change in speed and size? If not then koku would have the advantage there, they wouldn't clash sword, guts' sword will come in contact with a few of the crescent shaped blades and the rest will attack guts' armor.


I know it regenerates him but its not that big of a factor because its limited on how much he can use it. If the sliced off part of guts' body gets destroyed then there'd be nothing to pull back together, if kokushibo slices his arm off his body and then idk slices the arm thats been ripped off the body then the armor basically did nothing, and what about when the sliced off part is far from his armor? Does the armor reach out to the body part and then reattach it? It'd be a huge deal if not for the fact that it limited and koku can exhaust it.

like I said his other stuff are obsolete since they dont negate regen nor do they slow down kokushibo by forcing him to regenerate cause koku doesn't need to slow himself down to regenerate.

He's not wasting any time, Guts shoots the cannon and it pulverizes idk koku's upper half, the lower half of koku's body jumps backward to dodge and then the upper half of his body sprouts mid air.

Average speed of a truck is between 50 and 60 mph meanwhile the average speed of a human is somewhere around 8 mph, the speed gap is so big there and in this matchup they literally have the same speed. The truck and the human comparison is so flawed, the gap is way bigger and kokushibo is way more agile and has way more senses than the regular human. What? Why are you acting like guts is busting his body in one hit? No he hasn't lost when he does that, You're heavily underestimating kokushibo's senses here, Once the fight starts he jumps back and plays the range game, even if he doesn't know guts' regen negation he still wouldn't mindlessly take a hit, kokushibo will literally guts sword coming in slow motion thats how big of an amp STW is to your reaction speed and it boosts your actual combat speed as well.

When did guts ever launched an assault like that? Can you send me a scan of him firing everything you just said all at once, Doesn't he just swing a sword? And even then yes he would be able to dodge it, at least the ones he actually need to dodge which is just the sword, he can either jump back or counter attack with one of his forms which he can bust out immediately and has stupid AoE and little crescent shaped blades which change in size and speed, anything guts throws at him can be deflected, destroyed or stopped by just him spamming his slashes. No he doesn't, what do you mean. he would have to target something that would keep kokushibo from functioning like his legs or arms, if he slices a part of kokushibo's stomach then that wouldn't really do anything to kokushibo.

Like I said that is exhaustable and wouldn't last him for long, and how does he uses it btw? does he just sprinkle the dust around him or smth? Cause if it takes time kokushibo ain't letting him do that but if its just instant then ignore this.

If its just talking about length then it wouldn't be that hard to either dodge or counter-attack, Also yes some of his attacks will cover you from every direction so even if the sword shields guts' frontal body his back is still exposed. Like the joker or something? He's technically smart but his ambitions are crazy? Alright I kinda get it.

I just assumed that because he's berserk he doesn't really gives a shit about whether or not he gits hit, so going into the defensive won't really matter to him but if thats not the case then alr.

I need to see the scan of his armor being unfazed by characters way stronger than guts, because if so then kokushibo really can't kill guts, He has to do some damage to him while he's in an armor so the damage will be reduced + The armor itself has regen? Kokushibo would have to destroy the armor to kill guts, but if characters way stronger than guts can't even break it then I'd deem this as a stomp.

 

[Razor]

Lad, Koku's range doesn't even work, Guts could straight up just hold DS out and walk through the incoming attacks like he had an impenetrable riot shield.

Koku is unironically better off straight up fleeing, or trying to lure Guts into a trap, then just using danmaku and hoping it works eventually.

Doesn't he not give a shit whether he gets damaged or not?

 

[Razor]

I'll concede if guts' armor truly can't be broken by characters even far stronger than guts, Because he'd have to kill guts by damaging him from the impact alone which means the damage gets mitigated + He can regen + He has a fuckton of endurance.

 

[Phoenks]

I'll concede if guts' armor truly can't be broken by characters even far stronger than guts, Because he'd have to kill guts by damaging him from the impact alone which means the damage gets mitigated + He can regen + He has a fuckton of endurance.

It can't. It's literally never been as far as I'm aware.

Guts FRA

 

[Razor]

It can't. It's literally never been as far as I'm aware.

Guts FRA

Even against characters comparable to guts? Can I see scans for that?

 

[Nierre]

You expect him to send the whole manga?

 

[Chariot190]

Will respond tomorrow, PC decided to ******* shit out for zero ******* reason, ordered a laptop I'll pick up sometime around noon To do me till I make a new one.

And yeah, I can give scans of dudes stronger than Guts even ragdolling his ass and hurting him but not putting a dent in the armor (Given that's like every fight, wouldn't have to look very hard, plus it's literally only been scratched one time via extreme piercing, it was temporary at that).

 

[Razor]

He doesn't even haver a "Higher with berserker armor" On his durability section, Just his AP Section. If thats the case though then kokushibo isn't doing enough damage to him to take him down ever before guts slice him eventually with dragon slayer

 

[Phoenks]

You expect him to send the whole manga?

Deadass

 

[Razor]

Don't see whats wrong with asking for scans

 

[Harith0cell]

Guts via chariot reason fra.

 

[Chariot190]

I didn't make the profile, if it was up to me I'd definitely tweak some shit and flesh it out, though you can be damn well sure I'm gonna get around to fleshing it out eventually.

(Though, Guts durability isn't higher with the armor, Guts durability stays the same, to the point where he can even break his own limbs if he strikes to hard with it as his AP>Durability in this state, luckily the armor fixes him back up. It's just the actual metal that comprises the armor is pretty tough, Guts within it is the exact same tho).

The fact we live in a world where most of the verse is only Class 5-10 is baffling given the feats that exist, like damn even something as mundane as Zodd yeeting the horse Slayer axe is just as good as that shit.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Current vote btw?

 

[Razor]

I didn't make the profile, if it was up to me I'd definitely tweak some shit and flesh it out, though you can be damn well sure I'm gonna get around to fleshing it out eventually.

(Though, Guts durability isn't higher with the armor, Guts durability stays the same, to the point where he can even break his own limbs if he strikes to hard with it as his AP>Durability in this state, luckily the armor fixes him back up. It's just the actual metal that comprises the armor is pretty tough, Guts within it is the exact same tho).

The fact we live in a world where most of the verse is only Class 5-10 is baffling given the feats that exist, like damn even something as mundane as Zodd yeeting the horse Slayer axe is just as good as that shit.

Iirc the ratings on the durability section of characters doesn't always have to be the character's themselves, Like leon has a "Higher with charizard" rating even though he isn't charizard himself. so if the armor has a higher durability than guts' skin it would be stated but the profiles are just outdated.

 

[Razor]

anyways I'll vote guts fra

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Alright, guess the debate was settled and now we need more votes

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Koku upscales from baseline and Guts is 119 tons

Guts also upscales from 119 tons somewhat. He fought and rather handily defeated a stronger form of Mozgus than the one that performed the 119 ton feat, and Guts' endurance and durability weren't their best at the time due to a 3 day cross country run filled with constant fighting, and had already taken damage from Mozgus's buddies. Plus Guts' durability upscales considerably higher from surviving hits from Apostles way stronger than Mozgus, like Grunbeld and Ganishka

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Iirc the ratings on the durability section of characters doesn't always have to be the character's themselves, Like leon has a "Higher with charizard" rating even though he isn't charizard himself. so if the armor has a higher durability than guts' skin it would be stated but the profiles are just outdated.

Yeah correct, his armor did let him outright tank a hit that he said would've crippled his back otherwise

 

[Chariot190]

vote

We don't do that here, I'll argue if asked but feel like voting might be a tad suspect, just feels odd to vote personally.

Iirc the ratings on the durability section of characters doesn't always have to be the character's themselves, Like leon has a "Higher with charizard" rating even though he isn't charizard himself. so if the armor has a higher durability than guts' skin it would be stated but the profiles are just outdated.

You right, at the very least DS should be mentioned to be super tanky, because Guts has actively made use of its durability before in a fight, it's actually note worthy.
Though I wouldn't even say outdated (I mean, I did say that, but to clarify), just that the verse hasn't been properly looked through fully and calced, there's many feats and abilities that exist but haven't been brought forth, some obvious, some not. Which I guess is outdated, but not really on purpose.

Then again, nobody had the balls to give Femto the demon ***** till I brought it up and that shit is plot critical

 

[Razor]

Guts also upscales from 119 tons somewhat. He fought and rather handily defeated a stronger form of Mozgus than the one that performed the 119 ton feat, and Guts' endurance and durability weren't their best at the time due to a 3 day cross country run filled with constant fighting, and had already taken damage from Mozgus's buddies. Plus Guts' durability upscales considerably higher from surviving hits from Apostles way stronger than Mozgus, like Grunbeld and Ganishka

Yeah but koku upscales too, Although Idk how much guts upscales, because kokushibo upscales a lot, he basically dwarves douma who did the feat that got upscaled while he was being poisoned with like 50 kilograms of wisteria poison.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Coolest demon slayer of Tier 8 fra

 

[Baken384]

guts fring fra

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Yeah but koku upscales too, Although Idk how much guts upscales, because kokushibo upscales a lot, he basically dwarves douma who did the feat that got upscaled while he was being poisoned with like 50 kilograms of wisteria poison.

Didn't say he doesn't, the post I responded to just didn't say anything about Guts upscaling, so I elaborated

 

[Bernkastelll]

What is Kokushibou wincon at all?

 

[Razor]

Aight

 

[SheevShezarrine]

What is Kokushibou wincon at all?

Pray that Dragon Slayer's soul manip doesn't overtax his regen before he can slip a killing blow through a gap in Gut's armor

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Current vote btw?

 

[Elixirr]

Changing my vote to guts fra and to speed up grace

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I think thats 6 for Guts based from what i counted (since nobody give me the answer so i'll do it by myself lel)

• Guts: 6 (Naito, Razor, Elixir, Phoenks, Harith, Baken)
• Kokushibo: 2 (Zero, Sheev)

Wanted to take Chariot arguments as vote but i'll prolly wait

@Theendzero13 @SheevShezarrine You guys still sticking with Koku or wanna switch?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm going to release the homies for finishing this match via voting

 

[Popted2]

Guts FRA