Kirito vs Kratos [GRACE]

[DMUA]

Why has none of this been brought to a CRT

 

[RitsuØ1]

Why has none of this been brought to a CRT

How about no?

 

[Kaantantr]

Why has none of this been brought to a CRT

Open one up, I'll gladly join! I am still wrestling with terminologies being used, unsure of myself whether I should do something or not ^^'

It's easy to debunk something obviously wrong like FTL. It's harder when it's more micro-level terminology, like the Freeze being used here as explained earlier as I would consider "getting trapped in ice" to be more "getting trapped in an object" rather than "freezing". So I don't open anything up, unless I'm sure I'm not wrecking something I don't fully understand.

 

[DMUA]

Alright, I guess

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Ice is not a problem even if it works...Rage Of Gods is "get out of jail free card"...that thing allows Kratos to escape from complete petrification. Blades of Chaos will simply melt the ice.
Not mention he will close AP gap, and severe Hax and skill advantage.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Ice is not a problem even if it works...Rage Of Gods is "get out of jail free card"...that thing allows Kratos to escape from complete petrification. Blades of Chaos will simply melt the ice.

Even if it knocks out the opponent's consciousness?

 

[Vietthai96]

Even if it knocks out the opponent's consciousness?

You need to prove it can knock people unconscious, other wise with the current evidence about it, it is just trapping people

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Yeah nowhere on the profile does it say it can knock people unconscious, the most it says is that it saps their health.

 

[Vietthai96]

Sap Health fall under Life-Force Drain. Look like people mostly unconscious is because their life force being sap to the point make them lost consciousness

 

[RitsuØ1]

You need to prove it can knock people unconscious, other wise with the current evidence about it, it is just trapping people

Transparent, sapphire tendrils of ice stretched from within the
white mist and wrapped themselves around PoH and each and
every one of the 20000 Chinese and Korean players. The tendrils
appeared quite delicate and fragile, looking as though they would
shatter at the slightest touch, but the movements of the battlefrenzied players stopped cold in the blink of an eye, as if some
sort of time-bending magic had been applied to them.

A short silence was followed by sounds of shock and anger, but
those voices immediately faded too. Ensnared by the ice vines,
the players were swiftly cocooned in frost and frozen solid in a
matter of seconds.

It only works on those weaker than him. That's why it worked on the players and not PoH. PoH is equal to Kirito in terms of physical strength while the players were weaker than Kirito. Kirito has the AP advantage here, so it should work. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Yeah nowhere on the profile does it say it can knock people unconscious, the most it says is that it saps their health.

Oh yeah. Kirito can follow up with Life Drain if Ice Manipulation lands on Kratos.

 

[Vietthai96]

Nothing you post prove people got knock-out, it is just they got trapped and can't do anything

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Kratos resists life manip on steroids....
Blades of Chaos have then naturally, so its Kirito who needs to worry about getting hit.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Nothing you post prove people got knock-out, it is just they got trapped and can't do anything

Oh yeah. Kirito can follow up with Life Drain if Ice Manipulation lands on Kratos.

^ There's still this

Kratos resists life manip on steroids....

His profile says he resists Life Manipulation on his 5th Key...

 

[Theglassman12]

Life drain for Kirito means jackshit here when Kratos does the same thing by his normal attacks, that advantage gets cancelled out.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean, it was already debunked that Kirito's freeze would work on Kratos given the fact that he would be able to easily just escape it so most likely the life drain wouldn't do much to him.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Was the argument against the ice earlier (one of them at least) not that it only surrounded people in ice and didn’t freeze? Problem’s scan right there has Kirito freezing 20,000 people solid right after they were cocooned. This is just freeze GG.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Kratos fights and resists ice and cold all the time, whether its ice talos, or Ice Chimeras or Ice Harpies.
Kirito's Ice potency doesn't surpass Kratos resistance since freezing someone who survives in space isn't impressive as I have already explained.
Rage of Gods can get Kratos out of Complete Petrification, so ice is not an issue.
Blades of Chaos alone will melt ice.

@Problemexe Kratos has resistance to Hades Hands on Ascension key, those things have life leech and soul drain on them, anything that has Hades name on it in Greece has life drain and soul hax. So life drain isn't going ti work.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Kratos fights and resists ice and cold all the time, whether its ice talos, or Ice Chimeras or Ice Harpies.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Ascension, Kratos’ first key? He doesn’t have ice resistance listed.

Kirito's Ice potency doesn't surpass Kratos resistance since freezing someone who survives in space isn't impressive as I have already explained.

Like I said above, Kratos doesn’t have ice resistance here. You just said that being in space doesn’t freeze you when people still radiate heat which would cause moisture to freeze. What doesn’t happen in space is freezing instantly.

Rage of Gods can get Kratos out of Complete Petrification, so ice is not an issue.
Blades of Chaos alone will melt ice.

Being petrified =/= being frozen solid. Kirito isn’t transmuting his target into something else here, he is freezing the water in your body.

@Problemexe Kratos has resistance to Hades Hands on Ascension key, those things have life leech and soul drain on them, anything that has Hades name on it in Greece has life drain and soul hax. So life drain isn't going ti work.

That’s not what the profile says. It says he resists soul drain, transmutation and power null. There is no mention of life drain.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I have already told that profile is severely outdated since 2019 and their are not enough guys to overhaul it, its only recently that some speed revisions and reboot revisions have happened. Haxxes haven't even been touched.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Ascension, Kratos’ first key? He doesn’t have ice resistance listed

That Ice Talos thing I showed is for Ascension. He should have it listed.

Like I said above, Kratos doesn’t have ice resistance here. You just said that being in space doesn’t freeze you when people still radiate heat which would cause moisture to freeze. What doesn’t happen in space is freezing instantly.

And i told you there are cosmic radiations in space and full force of unfiltered sunlight which can infact add heat to the body. Moisture would actually boil in vaccum due to lack of pressure. All kinds of whacky stuff happen to water at low pressure, triple point is encountered in these pressure ranges I remember reading somewhere.
So what do we take ??
There's too many assumptions here man, thats why profiles are loosing resistances to extreme cold via space. DBH wasn't allowed in a recent CRT to have it.
Lets see what @DMUA says.

Being petrified =/= being frozen solid. Kirito isn’t transmuting his target into something else here, he is freezing the water in your body

Yeah, but he can still make decisions and activate his powers in a complete biological immobilized state, and break out of them. Breaking out of petrification state is more impressive then breaking out of ice.

That’s not what the profile says. It says he resists soul drain, transmutation and power null. There is no mention of life drain.

Well he should have, anything that has Soulfire of Hades has all these haxxes. Thats what the entire magic is built around. Health leeching and souldrain is primary ability of anything that has Hades name in it, primarily due to soulfire.

Arms of Hades

The Arms of Hades are the large, all left-handed black arms, seen in the comics, God of War II and God of War III. The Arms drag the dead Mortals into the Underworld. When Zeus betrayed Kratos out of fear and killed him with the Blade of Olympus, Kratos was taken into the Underworld by the Arms...

godofwar.fandom.com

Soul of Hades (Power)

The Soul of Hades was an elemental power in God of War: Ascension. That power shared many similarities to the Claws of Hades, although as only magic. They were only used to power up the Blades of Chaos and did not seem to let the player summon a specific soul at will. An Arm of Hades sprung out...

godofwar.fandom.com

Hades

This article contains lore based on real-life sources of the Greek mythology as introduced from the God of War Greek era. Hades (Greek: ᾍδης), also known as Háidēs or Pluto, was the Olympian God of the Dead and the Ruler of the Underworld. Eldest son of the mighty titan Cronos and the goddess...

godofwar.fandom.com

The very first quote in the page by Gaia is about life drain. Soul magic is all about soul and life drain.

I am going to make Hax additions CRT after this match and the Speed Revions for Ascension are over.

 

[Kaantantr]

It only works on those weaker than him. That's why it worked on the players and not PoH. PoH is equal to Kirito in terms of physical strength while the players were weaker than Kirito. Kirito has the AP advantage here, so it should work. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Oh yeah. Kirito can follow up with Life Drain if Ice Manipulation lands on Kratos.

You have been told multiple times to stop using deprecated Fan Translations for your citations...

The next moment, the entire battlefield was enveloped in a vast, stunning phenomenon on the scale of Stacia’s terrain-altering powers.

From the mist emerged vines of crystal clear ice, binding the bodies of the twenty-thousand-plus Chinese and Korean players, as well as PoH. They looked extremely fragile, likely to shatter the moment you touched them, but the furiously battling soldiers were immobilized so completely that time might as well have stopped by magic.

After a brief silence, shouts of surprise and anger arose, but they too died down in time. Every avatar wrapped in the icy vines was soon covered in a shroud of frost and frozen solid in moments.

Asuna briefly glanced over her shoulder toward the red knight who had tried to save Klein. He, too, was an ice sculpture now. But he didn’t seem to be in any pain; his eyes were peacefully closed, as far as she could see through his helm visor. The technique wasn’t meant to destroy or inflict pain, just to stop those it touched.

She faced forward again to see that PoH was frozen white as well. She looked at Sortiliena and nodded to indicate her state. “Thank you, Liena…I’m fine now.”

The chief guard let go of her, and she rushed toward Kirito, crunching the frost on the ground underfoot. Behind her followed Sortiliena and Ronie, who came running up from the Human Guardian Army’s forces.

Kirito was still facedown on the ground, clutching the broken sword in his left hand. But Asuna could tell that at this very moment, his mind was coming back to him. If she could touch his hand, cradle him, call out to him, he would respond. He would surely respond.

The span of a few dozen yards felt like it continued to the ends of the earth. Less than twenty seconds felt longer than eternity. But with each stride of her aching legs, the form of her beloved grew larger and larger in her view. Almost there. Almost within reach…

In the instant that her outstretched hand was going to touch that familiar black hair, she heard a tremendous, earsplitting crash.

The women looked up and saw, very close by, the figure of PoH breaking through the ice vines and frost to take one violent step forward.

“I’ve been waiting my whole life for this!! C’mon, Kirito…Let’s dance!!”

Was the argument against the ice earlier (one of them at least) not that it only surrounded people in ice and didn’t freeze? Problem’s scan right there has Kirito freezing 20,000 people solid right after they were cocooned. This is just freeze GG.

You can clearly understand here that it is crystal clear ice surrounding all of them. If they were just "frozen" and not "trapped in crystal clear ice", PoH would not be "breaking" stuff as much as slowly starting to move. It is literally stated he is breaking through not only the ice vines, but also the frost around him, which was what held him in place. He was not frozen, he was trapped in crystal clear ice, which is literally the only reason the Red Knights prior are described as "They looked extremely fragile, likely to shatter the moment you touched them, but the furiously battling soldiers were immobilized so completely that time might as well have stopped by magic." simply because the ice covering them is so pure that the scene is highlighting how crystal clear it is. That is also why the word "crystal clear" is emphasized throughout the paragraph. It's as if they are simply surrounded by glass that you cannot see.

Being petrified =/= being frozen solid. Kirito isn’t transmuting his target into something else here, he is freezing the water in your body.

Can you just stop making false claims every other post? "Freezing water in body", Underworld Avatars don't even have water in their body. They do not even have digestive systems, they don't have actual biologic bodies, they do not even defecate or pee. Whatever they intake is simply converted to life energy (HP) for them. If your argument is "it freezes the water in them", that is immediately debunked by basic knowledge of bodily functions in Underworld. You keep making claims based on your headcanon about the series that contradict the actual series.

Avatars simply have crit spots programmed in like every other game, so that aiming at the heart, head or main arteries does more damage. Instead of polygonal effects on cuts, you get blood effects programmed in. That's the extent of the realism goes. This is a world built with the Seed engine as a game, not some Surgeon Simulator that aims to recreate a full functioning body.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Just realized I forgot to actually vote, Kratos FRA

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Can you just stop making false claims every other post? "Freezing water in body", Underworld Avatars don't even have water in their body. They do not even have digestive systems, they don't have actual biologic bodies, they do not even defecate or pee. Whatever they intake is simply converted to life energy (HP) for them. If your argument is "it freezes the water in them", that is immediately debunked by basic knowledge of bodily functions in Underworld. You keep making claims based on your headcanon about the series that contradict the actual series.

Avatars simply have crit spots programmed in like every other game, so that aiming at the heart, head or main arteries does more damage. Instead of polygonal effects on cuts, you get blood effects programmed in. That's the extent of the realism goes. This is a world built with the Seed engine as a game, not some Surgeon Simulator that aims to recreate a full functioning body.

Man you should really make a physiology blog for these guys, from what you described of their body, I can already see unconventional resistance to mind and soul manip among other things for these guys.
You can get that because like a robot these guys lack a conventional mind and soul.
These guys already have hypermobility on their profile.
It will also shorten the profile size.

 

[Kaantantr]

The only issue I have is, I am here to make sure Kirito claims are accurate and in most cases, I am forced to drown out a lot of (granted, absurd but) exaggerated Kirito claims. Knowing how people love overplaying their personal picks, I can only hope people agreeing with a Kratos win are actually doing factchecking on that front to a similar extent.

Not sure about the "resistance" portion, however for all intents and purposes, Artificial Fluctlights have the exact same properties for their mind/soul as a real human. That is stored outside of the simulation in the Lightcube Cluster. The only difference is that it is a digital storage, rather than a biological storage, which taking the biology of our brains into account, boils down to electrical impulses (and in the case of fluctlights, narrowed further down into impulses in microtubules).

 

[RitsuØ1]

You have been told multiple times to stop using deprecated Fan Translations for your citations...

Yeah… I’m never using Yen Press’ translations and nothing you say won’t change my mind.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I have already told that profile is severely outdated since 2019 and their are not enough guys to overhaul it, its only recently that some speed revisions and reboot revisions have happened. Haxxes haven't even been touched.

Sure but we go by the profiles unless a CRT is made or evidence is provided. The video you linked wouldn’t give ice resistance.

That Ice Talos thing I showed is for Ascension. He should have it listed.

I’m fine with him fighting the Ice Talos thing but he never gets frozen at all. Where exactly is the resistance coming from?

And i told you there are cosmic radiations in space and full force of unfiltered sunlight which can infact add heat to the body. Moisture would actually boil in vaccum due to lack of pressure. All kinds of whacky stuff happen to water at low pressure, triple point is encountered in these pressure ranges I remember reading somewhere.
So what do we take ??
There's too many assumptions here man, thats why profiles are loosing resistances to extreme cold via space. DBH wasn't allowed in a recent CRT to have it.
Lets see what @DMUA says.

Yeah, but he can still make decisions and activate his powers in a complete biological immobilized state, and break out of them. Breaking out of petrification state is more impressive then breaking out of ice.

Breaking out of petrification =/= breaking out of being frozen solid, the two aren’t comparable as they both occur in different ways with different end results.

Well he should have, anything that has Soulfire of Hades has all these haxxes. Thats what the entire magic is built around. Health leeching and souldrain is primary ability of anything that has Hades name in it, primarily due to soulfire.

Hey, I’m just going by the profile since the ability was mentioned there and made no mention of life drain.

You can clearly understand here that it is crystal clear ice surrounding all of them.

The crystal clear ice is very blatantly the ice vines that pin the army, vines that are differentiated from the frost that spreads over the players.

If they were just "frozen" and not "trapped in crystal clear ice", PoH would not be "breaking" stuff as much as slowly starting to move. It is literally stated he is breaking through not only the ice vines, but also the frost around him, which was what held him in place.

Do you know what frost is? It’s an extremely thin layer of ice on a surface. It says that the players were coated in frost and frozen solid. Not only does the text differentiate the two, being covered in ice isn’t the same as being frozen solid. PoH didn’t get frozen solid and specifically broke out of the frost and vines, both of which are not being frozen solid.

He was not frozen, he was trapped in crystal clear ice, which is literally the only reason the Red Knights prior are described as "They looked extremely fragile, likely to shatter the moment you touched them, but the furiously battling soldiers were immobilized so completely that time might as well have stopped by magic." simply because the ice covering them is so pure that the scene is highlighting how crystal clear it is. That is also why the word "crystal clear" is emphasized throughout the paragraph. It's as if they are simply surrounded by glass that you cannot see.

Are you actually reading the passage? It verbatim says they were covered in frost and frozen solid. What do you think being frozen solid is?

Can you just stop making false claims every other post? "Freezing water in body", Underworld Avatars don't even have water in their body. They do not even have digestive systems, they don't have actual biologic bodies, they do not even defecate or pee. Whatever they intake is simply converted to life energy (HP) for them. If your argument is "it freezes the water in them", that is immediately debunked by basic knowledge of bodily functions in Underworld. You keep making claims based on your headcanon about the series that contradict the actual series.

Except that we know that the avatars bleed, cry, their breath mists in the cold, they sweat etc. I never seen scans that say the UW citizens lack all of the stuff you mentioned so if you have the time, send those my way. Sounds interesting.

This also doesn’t matter as the moisture that Kirito is freezing would be within Kratos as that is the enemy he is fighting here, not some avatar. Kratos is a “normal” person and BR has been stated to freeze people solid and shown to freeze body temp water solid. Why exactly would it not freeze Kratos who currently lacks ice resistance and hasn’t been shown to recover from being frozen solid?

Avatars simply have crit spots programmed in like every other game, so that aiming at the heart, head or main arteries does more damage. Instead of polygonal effects on cuts, you get blood effects programmed in. That's the extent of the realism goes. This is a world built with the Seed engine as a game, not some Surgeon Simulator that aims to recreate a full functioning body.

Same as above. Scans and why does this matter in regards to Kratos being frozen? BR is very clearly stated to freeze people solid which is very different from being covered in ice. Unless you wanna argue it’s a game effect which doesn’t function like normal physics in which case Kirito and Eugeo now have ice manip that can apply a “frozen” status ailment to people and doesn’t follow actual physics.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah… I’m never using Yen Press’ translations and nothing you say won’t change my mind.

If people are arguing over the translations, why not just go have a site translator translate the raws? This is what we are supposed to do whenever we have conflicting translations.

 

[DMUA]

And i told you there are cosmic radiations in space and full force of unfiltered sunlight which can infact add heat to the body. Moisture would actually boil in vaccum due to lack of pressure. All kinds of whacky stuff happen to water at low pressure, triple point is encountered in these pressure ranges I remember reading somewhere.
So what do we take ??

At the edge of the universe where the Abyssal Horror resided for a very lengthy period of time, it's less than 2 Kelvin.

It's also explicitly stated that Kirito was able to surpass that level of cold in order to freeze the Abyssal horror, which... that's actually another thing, that whole monologue doesn't really make sense if Kirito's just making ice surround them and isn't freezing the targets themselves in any capacity

Either way I don't think Cosmic radiation is actually hot, and if you're far away from the sun (say, pluto level distance) it's still going to be incredibly cold.

 

[Kaantantr]

If people are arguing over the translations, why not just go have a site translator translate the raws? This is what we are supposed to do whenever we have conflicting translations.

People aren't exactly arguing translations. Even Antvasima and AKM said official translation is the reference, unless it is objectively and extensively false, which it isn't. Despite Defan, the fan translator Problem is citing, has said Yen Press' version is so obviously above his, giving explicit reasons as to why, Problem simply refuses to play by the reality because it does not allow him to play further with his previously established misconceptions.

Yeah… I’m never using Yen Press’ translations and nothing you say won’t change my mind.

I don't care whether what I say changes your mind or not. But your persistence to ignore the translator you are citing, as well as the two admins, is quite telling on how you approach the situation. The fact that you 100% trust a fan translator for years and the moment I speak to him to disprove your misinterpretations of his own translation, you decide to not trust that translator, but still keep trusting his previous work. That is the epitome of hypocrisy and admittedly, I have no idea why such acts from you are allowed here, showcasing a clear bias that is not allowed on the platform as far as I know.

At the edge of the universe where the Abyssal Horror resided for a very lengthy period of time, it's less than 2 Kelvin.

It's also explicitly stated that Kirito was able to surpass that level of cold in order to freeze the Abyssal horror, which... that's actually another thing, that whole monologue doesn't really make sense if Kirito's just making ice surround them and isn't freezing the targets themselves in any capacity

It is here I come in and state "You are trying to apply real world science, to a game world that does not care for the science". The space is not 0 Kelvin or anything nearby. When Kirito, Asuna and Alice appear in space, all they endure is "Brrr, it's a bit chilly here, let me pull up a luminous shield to protect my HP from dropping". That is not a reaction someone (or 3 people of completely varying abilities) would say when they find themselves in a 2 degrees Kelvin temperature.

That is the same issue as plenty of other things, like the guy claiming "Human body is mainly water, so BRS freezes that water" whereas a body in Underworld has no inner biological structure, let alone have that amount of water. The "moisture goes into their lungs", no it doesn't, they don't have organs, they don't have lungs to store all that. Whatever they intake from any of their holes, is just processed in normal, gamified ways. It is just a game avatar, the same way every other Seed product uses. The distinction between Real and Game is overlooked way to many times, despite strongly existing everywhere. Someone asked for a citation for this, can't seem to find who, so I cannot directly quote for a reply, but here it is, SAO v20, Moon Cradle (Part 2):

The first time she was shown to the room, Asuna’s initial thought was that it must be incredibly hard to clean…but in the Underworld, dust and dirt were essentially treated like visual effects, not physical matter, so a bit of swinging away with a broom or duster was all it took to dispel the grime. It was Kirito who noted wryly that the process was more like retouching a digital photo than actual cleaning.

There was another reason cleaning was much easier here, too.

Shockingly, the cathedral—in fact, the entire Underworld—had not a single toilet. The people of this world ate food but did not expel waste.

That characteristic was true of the real-worlders Asuna and Kirito while they were here, too, of course. Though she’d recently gotten used to the concept, she couldn’t help but wonder, when feeling stuffed after a big meal, where that food was supposed to be going.

Kirito had much more experience in the Underworld than Asuna, and he took it in stride. “Someone at Rath probably figured that simulating bowel movements wasn’t necessary for raising an AI,” he said. But at the school for the survivors back in the real world, Asuna took a class in human development, and she did not agree with that assessment. In Freud’s model of development, young children go through an “anal stage” of growth, where toilet training teaches confidence and autonomy.

Glad the citation was asked, as it illustrates the difference of an in-game avatar to a real human body quite clearly. Again, anything that isn't necessary, doesn't exist. Same as any other game. The fact that this game, Underworld, is utilized with some realistic things to work as a simulation, does not change the fact that it is still a very gamified and simplified game world.

Also, dust and dirt and things like that aren't even actual particles, they are just VFX, again, much like any other game. Just a nice tidbit. You really need to stop using extremely scientific claims. It all goes back to "looking at how things function/act" rather than taking everything at a face value based on a vague terminology being used.

 

[DMUA]

It is here I come in and state "You are trying to apply real world science, to a game world that does not care for the science". The space is not 0 Kelvin or anything nearby. When Kirito, Asuna and Alice appear in space, all they endure is "Brrr, it's a bit chilly here, let me pull up a luminous shield to protect my HP from dropping". That is not a reaction someone (or 3 people of completely varying abilities) would say when they find themselves in a 2 degrees Kelvin temperature.

They're basically right outside of the planet's atmosphere when such a statement is made, it's nowhere near as cold as somewhere with no stars anywhere nearby in the slightest, like where the Abyssal Horror resided.

There's not much of a reason to say "actually it's way less cold because Underworld", as it's explicitly stated to be impressive to actually make ice that's colder than space. If it was just a little bit chilly like what that statement would suggest, then normal ice would obviously be far superior in temperature.

 

[Kaantantr]

They're basically right outside of the planet's atmosphere when such a statement is made, it's nowhere near as cold as somewhere with no stars anywhere nearby in the slightest, like where the Abyssal Horror resided.

There's not much of a reason to say "actually it's way less cold because Underworld", as it's explicitly stated to be impressive to actually make ice that's colder than space. If it was just a little bit chilly like what that statement would suggest, then normal ice would obviously be far superior in temperature.

If you want to be scientific, I'll be scientific myself (to illustrate how falsely it stretches facts in a game world) and claim Kirito actually has a massive heat resistance, as the outer space near Earth, under Sun (which they were at the time) it is 120 degrees Celsius. Without the sun, it is -100 Celsius. There is no real in-between, you go from one edge of the spectrum to the other depending on whether you have sun shining on you or not.

As for the statements about the Abyssal Horror, the way you repeat things you agreed to just in the previous CRT is a bit frustrating.

I thought we went over the narration in Reki novels. You cannot take casual statements of in-universe characters as if some omniscient narrator is telling them. Also, the average temperature in the interstellar space aka between Solar Systems is on average 3 Kelvin. We aren't even in interstellar space. There is no "edge of the Universe" for Abyssal Horror to reside in, "edge of the universe" is casually used in Stica's narration because she is basically stating "beyond what we can observe" and we know for a fact they cannot even observe much, as they require information from Admina the moment Abyssal Horror is not close to them.

But again, none of this scientific stuff applies to Underworld since Underworld does not have physics simulation on an atomic level, it is just a game. Once more, I would like to urge the use of Occam's Razor. If there is a base explanation, do not extrapolate into overly complicated claims. We know how these worlds function, we know how these systems function.

Since you got doubts about whether the Blue Rose Sword "freezes" enemies or traps them in ice, I'll grab a couple more excerpts but I want to add it is frustrating that I need to dive through multiple books and grab half a dozen instances to showcase just to prove a basic point that should have been obvious:

vs Fanatio & the Whirling Blades:

Craaakk!! With an earsplitting bursting sound, the marble was instantly covered in white frost.

Sharp, crystalline pillars thrust upward in a wave of ice that swelled forth. Within five seconds of launching, the ten-mel-wide ice wave had swallowed up the feet of Kirito, Fanatio, and the four other knights.

At last, the quartet of knights noticed the anomaly. Their helmeted heads turned to look in his direction.

But it was too late.

Eugeo clenched the sword with all his strength and screamed, “Roses—bloom!!”

Instantly, countless vines of pale-blue ice sprang up around the feet of the knights, Fanatio, and Kirito. Each one was only the width of a pinkie finger, but every single tendril bristled with sharp thorns that dug into the legs of their prey.

“Rrgh…”

“Wh-what is this?!”

The knights exclaimed their surprise. By then, the icy vines were climbing up their legs and to their waists and bellies. One knight belatedly tried to sever the vines with his greatsword, but the moment the weapon touched the ice, more vines wrapped around it and sewed it to the ground.

The vines covered the knights from toes to fingertips to head, turning them into immobile ice sculptures. The ice creaked as it snaked upward, firming its grasp on its prey, and then, with the crisp ringing like a bell, it sprouted a multitude of dark-blue roses.

They were all ice, of course. There was no nectar or scent coming from the hard, crystalline buds, only freezing white mist. Soon the air in the hall was filled with it: a thick, sparkling haze. The source powering the chill was the very life of the captured knights.

The drain on their life was slow, but there was no way to summon the strength to break the chains of ice while the roses sucked it away. This sacred art was not designed for killing foes. Eugeo had settled on this particular effect for the purpose of immobilizing Alice.

The four knights were completely neutralized, but their worthy leader was sharp enough to intuit the nature of the attack as soon as the vines started breaking through the frost on the floor, and she jumped away to evade them.

But Kirito’s reflexes were even quicker, aided by his prior understanding of Eugeo’s technique. Improbably enough, he not only leaped earlier than Fanatio, but he landed on her shoulder armor to leap a second time farther away. He did a somersault in the air to distance himself from the vines of ice, spreading a fine spray of blood as he went.

The pressure of his jump pushed Fanatio back to the floor, where she landed on one knee and was immediately surrounded by the ice.

“Rrgh…!”

Her concentration faltered, and the indiscriminate shower of light beams from her sword succeeded in severing a few of the vines before it fell silent. Her hideously damaged purple armor was wreathed in fine tendrils, then covered in thick ice.

vs Alice:

“Enhance Armament!!” Eugeo screamed, thrusting the Blue Rose Sword into the grass at his feet.

In an instant, the ground was white with ice. The wave of frost raced forward and swallowed Kirito and Alice where they stood, about ten mels away.

A rush of icy vines grew up their legs. They formed blue crystal chains that wound around the two bodies. Kirito’s black clothes and Alice’s white armor were soon covered in thick ice.

Kirito, Alice, I’m sorry!

He continued pumping out more and more ice vines. After seeing what Alice could do, no amount felt like enough to hold her down.

The crackling vines gripped tighter and tighter until they eventually changed into a single thick pillar of ice. The giant crystal, multifaceted like a raw gemstone, glistened quietly with the two combatants trapped inside. The only thing extending from the block was Alice’s hand and the Osmanthus Blade in it, stuck into the wall. Frozen in time within the blue ice was a look of slight surprise on Alice’s face and sheer determination on Kirito’s.

One prick of the dagger on her extended arm, and it was all over.

Eugeo let go of the Blue Rose Sword and stood up. The Perfect Weapon Control would be undone now, but that huge block of ice wouldn’t melt naturally for many minutes. He squeezed his little dagger and took a step forward, then another…

When his third step landed, golden light exploded.

“Ah…!”

To his shock, Alice’s trapped sword was disintegrating into countless petals again.

With a stately, harmonic thrum, the storm of golden flowers circled the pillar. The tiny cross-shaped blades swarmed and chiseled the ice as Eugeo watched helplessly. If he jumped into that fray now, he would lose his life before getting a single step closer.

The flowers shredded the ice until there was just a thin layer left, then fluttered up higher into the air. With a delicate crack, what was left of the ice pillar crumbled to the ground.

vs Bercouli:

With a sound like a tree splitting apart, the band of ice raced toward Bercouli.

The walkway was five mels across, but the width of the Blue Rose Sword’s ice wave was nearly ten. The water’s surface on either side of the stone developed an icy film, but its spread was weaker and slower, due to the water’s heat. Still, no excuses were possible at this desperate juncture.

Focusing all thoughts into his right hand, Eugeo clenched the sword ever tighter. He roared, and the frosted floor sprouted not vines but sharp thorns. They formed a thick pillar of ice that rippled down the walkway toward Bercouli, vicious glinting spikes covering the entire floor. But the commander merely tightened at the mouth and stayed put, standing in a slight crouch. He had no intention of escaping into the water.

Seeing his opponent stand firm like a fortress, Eugeo realized what he had to do. If he didn’t risk everything in this fight, he would never win.

vs Kirito & Alice:

“…Release Recollection.”

That was the phrase. The initiation of the greatest of battle abilities in the Underworld, calling forth the memory of the weapon and unlocking the true heart of superpowered Perfect Weapon Control—the secret of Memory Release.

Bright blue-white light shot from his sword.

I couldn’t dodge or defend against it. Absolute cold spread from the blade, instantly freezing the entirety of the vast chamber. The mouth of the descending staircase in the corner of the room, the levitating disc that went up to the top floor, and both Alice and I were frozen solid up to our chests in thick, immobilizing ice. If Alice hadn’t straightened me up, the ice would have swallowed my head.

When we came across Bercouli Synthesis One in the great bath on the ninety-fifth floor of the cathedral, he had been frozen up to his neck like this. Eugeo’s Memory Release power was strong enough to freeze an entire pool of hot bathwater so fast that even the oldest of the knights wasn’t able to escape. I hadn’t forgotten or overlooked that, but there wasn’t even any water to freeze on this floor. And he hadn’t generated a huge number of ice elements to make use of—where had all this ice come from?

I don't know how much clearer it can be after this last one. Alice literally straightens Kirito, which prevented him from getting trapped in ice. It is always the same. Both Enhance Armament and Release Recollection is featured here. Both share the exact same traits, Release Recollection's only difference being is that it is more powerful. It is always explicitly physical ice that travels, whereas that travelling ice affects the nearby water as we do know, without any scientific words that wouldn't apply here, water freezes when there is cold as can be seen in Rulid and I find it embarrassing having to state this but it is only water that is known to freeze upon contact with the travelling ice!!! And the traveling ice also creates mist as visual effects which is irrelevant for any arguments per the citation from Moon Cradle in the previous reply.

4 instances of consecutive uses of the Blue Rose Sword's memory ability, all of them explicitly state the ice travelling, whether by creating ice pillars straight from the ground to envelop the enemy, or tying them up with ice veins (which immobilizes them because they are bound and kept in place, not because they have frozen from the inside or anything) and the ice creation then spreads from those veins. I hope everything is clear now.

Problem, I would appreciate if you stop showing your bias in 50 different ways in a single thread, it just makes it easier for me to make such accusations, the last showcase being "only liking posts solely because they support your head-canon no matter how much it may contradict reality". You appear to be the only user who does this. Everyone else uses it to highlight posts that contribute to a discussion.

 

[Smashtwig]

If I recall- isn’t the purpose of BRS‘s thing to trap and immobilize enemies? Not… y’know… freeze things to death? Aside from the… life steal thing that… I don’t understand why it’s a nice thing to do, “peacefully logging people out” by killing them or smth

Anyways, if that’s the case wouldn’t it be more clear that it’s just surrounding people in ice rather than instakill?

 

[Kaantantr]

I don’t understand why it’s a nice thing to do, “peacefully logging people out” by killing them or smth

Because being trapped in ice does not hurt you. You do feel the cold, but it doesn't hurt (unlike real life where putting an ice onto your skin directly for more than 4-5 seconds will make you feel a certain "burn"). And the life drain ability just makes you feel "tired" as you are literally being drained of your life energy. It's the equivalent of "slowly putting someone to sleep", with the duration being dictated by the amount of HP you have. Every other option involves physical pain to drop HP.

Anyways, if that’s the case wouldn’t it be more clear that it’s just surrounding people in ice rather than instakill?

Correct. I believe the 4 excerpts I have provided should make it clear beyond doubt.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Man this thread is equivalent of ice hockey, with puck of "fatal or not" being shot between both courts.

Seriously man @Kaantantr ntr start a CRT and settle this ice shenanigan, by tomarrow I'll start my GoW hax CRT.

Now I'll dip out, cuz I have class now.

Also Kratos GG.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Correct. I believe the 4 excerpts I have provided should make it clear beyond doubt.

We are trying to say that the Blue Rose Sword's Enhance Armament/Release Recollection doesn't kill but that Kirito's freeze is colder than the Abyssal Horror's resistance to the extreme colds of temperature in outer space.

Seriously man @Kaantantr ntr start a CRT and settle this ice shenanigan, by tomarrow I'll start my GoW hax CRT.

^ This please for the sake of everybody in this thread. You have been derailing the whole thread massively (NGL, I think you made some users not reply in this thread anymore).

Oh, yea. It's Grace Period now btw. I'm going to try catching some more sleep now. Jaa Ne.

 

[Kaantantr]

I'm sorry for correcting false information you are using for your basis to make a decision.

 

[Vietthai96]

Look like the thread turn into a psuedo CRT thread lol. But again as Kaantantr point out, do you have any evidence of space actually is cold like real-life space Problemexe, or functioning like real-life space. We know that the world of Underworld is just a simulation not actual world, so just assume it working like real-life space because it is space seem like Association Fallacy

 

[RitsuØ1]

Look like the thread turn into a psuedo CRT thread lol. But again as Kaantantr point out, do you have any evidence of space actually is cold like real-life space Problemexe, or functioning like real-life space. We know that the world of Underworld is just a simulation not actual world, so just assume it working like real-life space because it is space seem like Association Fallacy

To avoid future conflict, I decided to use both translations.
Yen Press:

“Release Recollection!!”
A bright light flashed, covering her main vision board. When she could see again a moment later, there were many beams of light shooting from the swordsman’s blade toward the monster.
They looked as tiny as threads compared to the huge spacebeast, but as they pierced through and tangled around its shadowy form, the creature clearly began to lose speed. The twelve appendages writhing on their own stiffened—as though they were freezing solid.
But that wasn’t possible. The Abyssal Horror was designed to thrive in the ultra-cold region of outer space. There couldn’t possibly be any chill colder than that.

Fan Translation:

“Release recollection!!”

Blinding light burned the imagepanel stark white.

When the image immediately returned, at its center it was
possible to see several streaks of bluish-white light shooting from
the blade raised by the swordsman and rocketing towards the
Abyssal Horror.

Those lights were as thin as fibers compared to the space beast’s
gargantuan form, but when they struck and wrapped around it,
the beast’s speed of assault became visibly attenuated. The frantic
motions of its freely wriggling 12 tentacles became stiff. Almost as
if they had frozen.

But that was impossible. The Abyssal Horror was a creature
acclimated to the extremely cold environment of space. It was
impossible to create a chill colder than the temperature of space.

Wow. Won't you look at that? Both translations basically said the same thing. Now we just add Reality Equalization here to this equation. Problem solved. I seriously need to get some more sleep now so it doesn't mess up my sleeping schedule. I will probably be back in a couple of hours tho. Jaa Ne.

 

[Vietthai96]

Alright seem good to me

 

[Kaantantr]

Again, the Space is cold. I mentioned as much in my previous posts. The problem is going full science where none exists, making calculations based on the 2 degrees Kelvin value, as well as the false assumption that Kirito freezes things from the inside, rather than trapping them in ice. I have so far provided 5 separate excerpts where ice literally travels and forms around the enemies. I have no idea how you are still claiming he created "ice colder than space to freeze the beast".

The argument falls apart at its source. Everything else, like how heat works, how anatomy works, those were all stuff I had to reply with, because people kept trying to move the goalpost elsewhere. And then I am the one who gets berated for providing citations to prove my point against someone who says "Humans are made of water so Kirito freezes that water", not knowing the most basic things about the series...

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Given the reasons above, Kratos FRA.