Kirito vs Demigra

[Supawa]

Speed equalized

4-A versions

Kirito: 2

Demigra: 2

 

[Akreious]

Mindhax GG?

 

[Supawa]

Kirito has the abilto freeze i believe

 

[Ionliosite]

Is Demigra's mindhax though based?

 

[SSBXeno573]

It's based on

1. Coming into contact with the Dark Ki around him

2. Can do it by just glowing his staff

 

[Ionliosite]

Then Kirito says freeze GG.

 

[DMUA]

4-A Demigra doesn't have it upon ki contact

However him mindhaxing is generally a valid option if it fires off in a way that stops freeze GG

Which I don't think he can go fast enough for

It would end something like

>Demigra Mindhaxes

>Then he gets frozen by the ice Kirito already used

>Now he's incaped and Kirito stops being mind controlled

 

[SSBXeno573]

Incon at worst for Demigra tbh. In this form, Demigra uses intangibility + invisibility in character before mindhaxing so he doesn't get oneshot by stronger opponents (An example would be against Beerus or against Piccolo). So that stops him from being insta-frozen

Furthermore, Dark energy/magic and coming into contact with it causes the opponent to be mind haxed (as shown when his energy alone acted by itself and mind controlled Baby Vegeta even after Demigra dies)

So even if Demigra is incapacitated by the ice, his dark energy can act by itself without Demigra.

So yeah, voting Demigra.

 

[DMUA]

Actually, Kirito has nonphysical interaction if you look

Gabriel had the same sort of schtick and Kirito just noped him put regardless.

Also, I don't think there's actual confirmation he mind controlled Baby after he died. All he did was have his spare, spiteful wormhole snatch them up and put them in a position to screw up history, along with giving them all a power up

Which makes a lot more sense then him manipulating someone with his ki after he's long since stopped thinking

 

[SSBXeno573]

Can his ice interact with intagibles?

And he did mind haxx Baby after his death tough. We clearly see Baby and the Evil Shenrons be induced by Villainous mode. Furthermore, there's further confirmation in DBH that Demigra's Dark Energy acts on its own and can so stuff.

 

[DMUA]

Yes

Villainous mode isn't mindhax. Piccolo can't talk and is forced to do something he wouldn't otherwise do while he's mindhaxed, Baby is entirely vocal about his plans for tuffle domination and acts perfectly characteristically

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait then does Demigra even have 4-D mindhax? Because Infinite Zamasu was put into villainous mode.

Edit: The DB wiki classifies VM as midnhax

 

[SSBXeno573]

No.

Villainous Mode is mind hax and is consistently treated as such. The only difference between Baby and Piccolo is that Piccolo was stated to lose his sanity while he was being mind controlled

Furthermore, every instance Villainous Mode is used, it has shownd some property of mind manipulation. The main point of Villainous is its properties to manipulate people.

 

[SSBXeno573]

Furthermore, FW2 has recently gained access to induce Villainous Mode and here is the description here. So VM is definitely Mind Manip

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But...that clearly says brainwash attack, not villainous mode.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't against ya (I ain't for ya either), but that's factual.

 

[DMUA]

The problem is that every instance that actually shows mind control, Demigra was alive for

Frieza, Cell and Buu were plenty mind controlled but Baby wasn't

In fact, what even is the proof Baby and co were in the same state at all? Couldn't they have only been amped by dark power, and that's that, no Villainous mode or mind control involved?

 

[ProudLearner]

There are two types Villainous mode:

1. Mind Control by Dark Energy from Makioshins

2. Eating the Fruit of Tree of Might that was infused by the Dark Energy.

 

[SSBXeno573]

The proof is the fact that it visually is Villainous Mode. Just like how a form like Super Saiyan is indicative by its yellow hair and blue/green eyes, Villainous Mode is indicative by its purple aura and red eyes. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well...

Villainous Mode in and of itself is mind control. If mind control isn't involved, then it isn't VM.

And in any case, it's confirmed that Demigra's energy still managed to hypnotise GT Trunk in the GT saga (which occurs after he's long gone). So Demigra's energy can definitely mindhax on its own.

 

[SSBXeno573]

Also, evidence that Kirito's ice can freeze intangibles?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Also, evidence that Kirito's ice can freeze intangibles?

He has Non-Physical Interaction

 

[SSBXeno573]

Being able to hit an intangible =/= necessarily mean you can freeze one. Plus, there are different varieties of intangibility, hence why I'm asking for feats.

For example, being able to affect someone with elemental intangibility or even immaterial intangibility may not translate to affecting intangibility dine through phasing as they are carried out by different means and have different characteristics.

 

[DMUA]

this

Even then, what does Demigra actually plan to do with Kirito mindhaxed and him in a ball of ice? Both would be incapacitated, and if Demigra like, tried to get Kirito to kill himself, it wouldn't do anything to his regen (which in turn is powered by incarnation, Kirito's sheer willpower), and if anything, would knock him out of mindhax via just taking severe amounts of damage

Actually, now that I think about it Demigra's mindhax is prone to being ineffective on people with a degree of willpower. Trunks was able to resist it, though his body was still under the effects, after the Future Warrior punched him a few times

With someone who can literally bend reality with his sheer willpower, I doubt mindhax would have the chance to do much of anything in the first place.

 

[Dragopentling]

How strong are we talking about Jesus-kun's Willpower here that could say resistance to mindhax?

 

[DMUA]

Incarnation is the ability to change reality with willpower, overcome impossible odds, cast spells, and in VR, even not die when your HP is 0, that sort of thing.

On his own, Kirito's willed through an absolute ton of pain, got up after Quinella was done murdering nearly all of his friends and fought her head on, going so far as to say "Resisting is the only reason I'm here", generally that kind of thing.

 

[SSBXeno573]

>Demigra's mindhax is ineffective against people with a degree of willpower

Blatantly false and it seems you're merely making stuff up to suit your argument at this point. Some of the most-willed people such as Gohan succumbed to it and people such as Vegeta who has escaped babidi's mindhax via his pride/will still succumbed to it. And Trunks merely has resistance to it, nothing more. Trunks has never even exhibited any significant willpower in neither canon DBZ nor Xenoverse. Hell, in DBZ, he gave up against the androids as soon as he saw them but apparently has a strong will :^)

Burden of proof is on you dude but since you lack the proof, you're argument falls flat. If you think willpower is a weakness of the mindhax, by all means, make a CRT.

Furthermore, freezing someone who is immune to nearly all forms of damage just proves that he can freeze invulnerables not intangibles. Big difference.

And if Kirito is mindhaxxed, Demigra could just BFR him (which is exactly what he did to Baby).

 

[DMUA]

It didn't take long for them to get loosened up just like trunks, so if anything you're only backing it up.

The description of his immunity is via the sheer fact that he's made of an untouchable substance

Baby was unconscious when he was BFRd, as the portal took a lengthy time to suck him in. With higher lifting strength and generally actually resisting it, it wouldn't be hard for Kirito to move out of the way.

 

[SSBXeno573]

You're right, they did get out the mind control... after getting the shit beat out of them to the point of incapacitation but, ok. FW beats the shit out of them until they are incapped and then the mind control is gone after they awake. The willpower point is pure conjecture on your end.

Phasing intangibility =/= immaterial intangibility, (the former of which Demigra has)

Hard for Kirito to move when he's under mind control.

You're entire argument assumes that Kirito can resist an ability he has never shown to be able to resist. I don't think I have to extrapolate on how nonsensical and incorrect that is but ok.

 

[RotofBots]

@DMUA If you think Kirito can resist mindhax, you should make a CRT to add that resistance to his profile or if you think Demigra and the rest of Time Breaker's have a noticeable weakness in their mindhax, you should also make a CRT addressing that. Both options would be preferable than clogging up this thread with the matter.

In any case, I think this match is inconclusive.

 

[Ionliosite]

Demigra's intangibility is only in his 2-Bs keys. Not in the 4-A iirc.

 

[SSBXeno573]

Demigra's intangibility is only in his 2-Bs keys. Not in the 4-A iirc.

That would be my fault. Demigra's Profile was without tabbers separating keys in his P&A at one point so I asked an admin to cleanup the profile by adding keys and put intangibility in the 2-B key instead of the 4-A one.

 

[SSBXeno573]

In any cas, no matter the outcome, this match will probably be null as Demigra's losing his 4-A key and either becoming 3-A, Low 2-C or 2-B.

 

[Ywlrvl]

Also, evidence that Kirito's ice can freeze intangibles?

Kirito flash-froze Gabriel, a being made out of amorphous darkness.

 

[HyperNepsy]

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