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So I have an issue with Kirby's tier. The tier he has is a full on 2-C when he used to have it as a possibly. I kinda want to bring it back to an extent. Why? Simple, I don't think there's enough evidence for a blatant scaling to 2-C because Magolor's feat is way too vague to be blatant, though it is good enough to stay.
2-C FEAT IS TOO VAGUE
Firstly, is the Magolor 2-C feat legitimate? It could be.
In here is an interview that Eficiente placed in his blog. Eficiente interprets the line "there are some elements that are revealed after clearing the story that challenge the continuity of time as a narrative" as almost definitive proof that the destruction we see in the dimensional rift areas are something that we see Magolor cause in the future.
Eficiente does say "Unfortunately, that's all the information we're given. It isn't stated in a bland way that the portals led to the future or something. This means that saying that the portals lead to the future when Magolor got defeated is technically an assumption, however, this is the only assumption that makes any sense." and does provide thoughts on why it is the only reasonable explanation here but I find some issues with this whole thing.
First off Eficiente says that "we can't say that Another Dimension does this on its own at random because other games don't portray it that way, and even then this is proven to be "something bad that needs to be fixed", because Kirby & co. fix it by defeating Sphere Doomers".
The issue with this counter is that one, he never provides evidence for why other games don't portray it that way when they mostly do, and just because it is something bad wouldn't mean it is natural. Earthquakes are natural, Supernovas are natural, the potential Big Crunch or Big Freeze are natural. For all we know this could be a natural event.
Second off, there is the issue of the fact that the spaces are confirmed to be "closing" with the only thing remaining being the area with the doomers. Additionally, the walls do no damage. This leads me to believe this is a natural thing like a big crunch, a space closing in a hole in it. Perhaps it pulsates and that's why it opens and closes. This is very different from outright destruction and sort of feels weird for a wave that was meant to destroy everything. Basically, it is like a bubble being closed in and there is not enough clear indication that magolor did it.
Now there's the next bit, why I think Magolor, perhaps, might have not caused it and it could still be a natural event.
Here is the ending sequence of KRtDLD. As we can see what Magolor caused is the shattering of the entire space they were in. THEN the wave comes in and starts swallowing everything up. It also comes from a different direction unlike the destruction caused by Magolor, it comes from behind while the epicenter of the shattering of the universe seems to be around the part where Magolor was. This is weird as it wouldn't make sense for the wave to come from behind.
So as a TL;DR, the whole 2-C feat thing is a theory. It is a solid theory, but it is too theoretical to be a tier that isn't "possibly"
HOW WOULD WE SCALE THIS NOW?
Well, my proposal is to scale post RTDL Kirby to 3-A, possibly 2-C.
Why 3-A and not anything else? Well, we know the different inner rifts and such are universe sized as they are referred to as "skies", something that Efi has done well to explain in the blog that I linked, not to mention the rifts inside AD that lead to several universes as explained in this cosmology blog. This means that the area where Kirby fought Magolor, the one that got obliterated in the end, only leaving a void behind, had to be a universe. This is consistent with the fact that in the original game Magolor could warp the entire area using his black hole and Magolor implies that a stronger version of his black hole (at that point Magolor was weaker than his Crowned self) could absorb a dimension. I believe this is a good tier to have as a certain point since at least it is relatively consistetn. The explanation would be "Shattered an entire dimension, leaving nothing but void. The different dimensions inside of Another Dimension are heavily implied to be universes due to being called "skies" similarly to how other universes are called in the series. Magolor's black hole could twist the area around him and it is implied that his black hole could absorb a universe".
UPGRADING THE 2-C RATING
Eficiente believes that the 4 dimensions in Magolor epilogue are not really separate universes and are interconnected. This is because they seem to be interconnected in the stage select screen and later in the credits.
I have an issue with this.
First off, stage select screens should mostly not be taken seriously in Kirby. If they are taken seriously, we will have funny things like Kirby sized planets, Castle-sized Kirby and worlds that need to be opened up with doors that seemingly lead into trees only to send you into a mountain range. There are cases where it is reasonable to take them seriously (like trying to figure out planet sizes by comparing the sizes of the planets in the pause screens which are generally close to each other in size) but here it is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Why?
Well let's start with the fact that this place has conviniently placed portals that lead everywhere.
Then let's look at the fact that the stage doors are...what's that? Interdimensional portals? Portals that have 100% of the time lead to a different universe and not to just another part of the same universe?
Then there's the fact that the fragments he collects are in different skies, aka, in different universes and are quite literally called interdimensional stages.
Finally, the final nail in the coffin, is the fact that the credits contradict the stage select screen.
Yes, the credits show that there are different portals or black holes or whatever in the different universes, while in the stage select screen there is one of those portals that transitions colors every time you go into a different area.
So to sum it all up, the evidence about them sharing the same space is based on a stage select screen, which is notoriously inaccurate, and credits, that aren't meant to be taken literally as there's literally paintings of later events flying around n shit. Meanwhile we have direct confirmation that the stages are interdimensional, different skies, and are accessed by interdimensional rifts that have ALWAYS lead to other dimensions consistently.
Additionally there is even MORE evidence against them sharing a space.
1. This would be weirdly inconsistent not only with the general portrayal of every other dimension in the game, but also with the official concept diagrams of Another Dimension which generally show separate inter-dimensional rift areas.
2. There are dimension walls in the areas. Yes, the same ones that are presumed to be caused by Magolor's crown explosion. If these universes are sharing spaces, why don't we see anything happen in the stage select screen, which is a hub between these dimensions. This would either mean that they are a very local event and thus ruining the 2-C argument or they are happening within different dimensions and the stage select screen is just a hub used to travel to these disconnected universes.
What does this mean? Since there are dimensional walls there it means Magolor's attack, assuming it is his attack, did happen and affected the 4 dimensions we see. This would ugrade the 2-C feat from 15-16 universes as currently assumed and make it 19-20 universes.
CONCLUSION
Everyone post-RTDL should scale to 3-A, possibly 2-C with the latter tier scaling to 19-20 universes.
There should also be a multiplier for 3-A since Kirby could fight VT who could create 4 Master Crowns.
2-C FEAT IS TOO VAGUE
Firstly, is the Magolor 2-C feat legitimate? It could be.
In here is an interview that Eficiente placed in his blog. Eficiente interprets the line "there are some elements that are revealed after clearing the story that challenge the continuity of time as a narrative" as almost definitive proof that the destruction we see in the dimensional rift areas are something that we see Magolor cause in the future.
Eficiente does say "Unfortunately, that's all the information we're given. It isn't stated in a bland way that the portals led to the future or something. This means that saying that the portals lead to the future when Magolor got defeated is technically an assumption, however, this is the only assumption that makes any sense." and does provide thoughts on why it is the only reasonable explanation here but I find some issues with this whole thing.
First off Eficiente says that "we can't say that Another Dimension does this on its own at random because other games don't portray it that way, and even then this is proven to be "something bad that needs to be fixed", because Kirby & co. fix it by defeating Sphere Doomers".
The issue with this counter is that one, he never provides evidence for why other games don't portray it that way when they mostly do, and just because it is something bad wouldn't mean it is natural. Earthquakes are natural, Supernovas are natural, the potential Big Crunch or Big Freeze are natural. For all we know this could be a natural event.
Second off, there is the issue of the fact that the spaces are confirmed to be "closing" with the only thing remaining being the area with the doomers. Additionally, the walls do no damage. This leads me to believe this is a natural thing like a big crunch, a space closing in a hole in it. Perhaps it pulsates and that's why it opens and closes. This is very different from outright destruction and sort of feels weird for a wave that was meant to destroy everything. Basically, it is like a bubble being closed in and there is not enough clear indication that magolor did it.
Now there's the next bit, why I think Magolor, perhaps, might have not caused it and it could still be a natural event.
Here is the ending sequence of KRtDLD. As we can see what Magolor caused is the shattering of the entire space they were in. THEN the wave comes in and starts swallowing everything up. It also comes from a different direction unlike the destruction caused by Magolor, it comes from behind while the epicenter of the shattering of the universe seems to be around the part where Magolor was. This is weird as it wouldn't make sense for the wave to come from behind.
So as a TL;DR, the whole 2-C feat thing is a theory. It is a solid theory, but it is too theoretical to be a tier that isn't "possibly"
HOW WOULD WE SCALE THIS NOW?
Well, my proposal is to scale post RTDL Kirby to 3-A, possibly 2-C.
Why 3-A and not anything else? Well, we know the different inner rifts and such are universe sized as they are referred to as "skies", something that Efi has done well to explain in the blog that I linked, not to mention the rifts inside AD that lead to several universes as explained in this cosmology blog. This means that the area where Kirby fought Magolor, the one that got obliterated in the end, only leaving a void behind, had to be a universe. This is consistent with the fact that in the original game Magolor could warp the entire area using his black hole and Magolor implies that a stronger version of his black hole (at that point Magolor was weaker than his Crowned self) could absorb a dimension. I believe this is a good tier to have as a certain point since at least it is relatively consistetn. The explanation would be "Shattered an entire dimension, leaving nothing but void. The different dimensions inside of Another Dimension are heavily implied to be universes due to being called "skies" similarly to how other universes are called in the series. Magolor's black hole could twist the area around him and it is implied that his black hole could absorb a universe".
UPGRADING THE 2-C RATING
Eficiente believes that the 4 dimensions in Magolor epilogue are not really separate universes and are interconnected. This is because they seem to be interconnected in the stage select screen and later in the credits.
I have an issue with this.
First off, stage select screens should mostly not be taken seriously in Kirby. If they are taken seriously, we will have funny things like Kirby sized planets, Castle-sized Kirby and worlds that need to be opened up with doors that seemingly lead into trees only to send you into a mountain range. There are cases where it is reasonable to take them seriously (like trying to figure out planet sizes by comparing the sizes of the planets in the pause screens which are generally close to each other in size) but here it is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Why?
Well let's start with the fact that this place has conviniently placed portals that lead everywhere.
Then let's look at the fact that the stage doors are...what's that? Interdimensional portals? Portals that have 100% of the time lead to a different universe and not to just another part of the same universe?
Then there's the fact that the fragments he collects are in different skies, aka, in different universes and are quite literally called interdimensional stages.
Finally, the final nail in the coffin, is the fact that the credits contradict the stage select screen.
Yes, the credits show that there are different portals or black holes or whatever in the different universes, while in the stage select screen there is one of those portals that transitions colors every time you go into a different area.
So to sum it all up, the evidence about them sharing the same space is based on a stage select screen, which is notoriously inaccurate, and credits, that aren't meant to be taken literally as there's literally paintings of later events flying around n shit. Meanwhile we have direct confirmation that the stages are interdimensional, different skies, and are accessed by interdimensional rifts that have ALWAYS lead to other dimensions consistently.
Additionally there is even MORE evidence against them sharing a space.
1. This would be weirdly inconsistent not only with the general portrayal of every other dimension in the game, but also with the official concept diagrams of Another Dimension which generally show separate inter-dimensional rift areas.
2. There are dimension walls in the areas. Yes, the same ones that are presumed to be caused by Magolor's crown explosion. If these universes are sharing spaces, why don't we see anything happen in the stage select screen, which is a hub between these dimensions. This would either mean that they are a very local event and thus ruining the 2-C argument or they are happening within different dimensions and the stage select screen is just a hub used to travel to these disconnected universes.
What does this mean? Since there are dimensional walls there it means Magolor's attack, assuming it is his attack, did happen and affected the 4 dimensions we see. This would ugrade the 2-C feat from 15-16 universes as currently assumed and make it 19-20 universes.
CONCLUSION
Everyone post-RTDL should scale to 3-A, possibly 2-C with the latter tier scaling to 19-20 universes.
There should also be a multiplier for 3-A since Kirby could fight VT who could create 4 Master Crowns.
