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Still waiting for Efficiente to come here right? Someone really needs to ping Efi.
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Kirby Formatting CRT
- Thread starter Wokistan
- Start date
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- Tags
- kirby kirby (series) magolor
- Status
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@Eficiente I think this CRT is pretty relevant to you
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If Efi doesn't arrive, someone is gonna have to do his job for him, and he can't bitch because he was given plenty of chances to come.
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Let's see
Some of them are that simple, other items take far more space to write. It seemed completely sensical on the lack of an alternative and not knowing it was an issue.
Idk what "unrelated" quotes you talk about. "Tabbers that go three deep" should have something to show. Idk what you mean by the last bit.
Understood.
You mean things like Mixed Ability, Super Abilities, Limited Use Abilities being all covered at once with 1 of those, ok.
I would think it makes it shorter, are you sure?
I think it's perfectly understandable, his first key tells you his general intelligence and his intelligence in adventures & combat, so one looks at only those tabbers. His next key adds something new that's can't apply to the rest, so separates that. His intelligence in adventures & combat is the only one where he develops, so within it they are those " | " separations.
So, again, I think it was perfectly understandable, and I wouldn't have imagined how to do it w/o the tabbers. But if you're telling me to use collapsible boxes then ok.
I disagree.
One wouldn't know if not told what Kirby has seen and been unbothered by; Imagine someone puts Kirby up against a horror character, then another tries to look things up to evaluate how it would go down, it would be reasonable for any random person to still think "Kirby would get traumatized by [X], petrified/messing his decision-making", because he looks & acts like a small plushie. People need to first be told by someone, which I believe is us. Yes, that is a form of intelligence, it's experience & emotional intelligence.
If character A can beat up a giant monster with wings then good for them. If character B can do the same, + is purposely able to first destroy the wings to have an easier time beating up the monster, then that's even better. Again, how is this not intelligence and not something you need to be told if you're a random person? I mean separate from the fact that it's a small detail.
Definitely not the intent.
If I can move all that stuff into a blog like this and link that, I would have no issue making it of that size. I had it as explaining it properly, not conveying a message.
Yes, because it's both "one of many Copy Abilities he has", so it's mixed between them, and also "a transformation that triggers on its own when dying", so there is a purpose to quickly look into that and what it has going on, without needing to find it and have things around you don't need when talking about a dead Kirby who turned into it. Needless to say this makes perfect sense to me.
That doesn't seem proper, this is ( ...conservatively, unless one assumes everyone in the verse always has & had it via friendship) a different power that works on its own rules. "Feats" cover feats, not mechanics & new abilities, P&A does that.
That's true.
Define intuitive? For any regular person, a character like Kirby being that strong, let alone other characters w/o his combat record & connotations of power, is a massive pill to swallow. I'm talking about reasonable suspension of disbelief, not bad faith. I need to update the blogs in scaling, but that only covers "Boss 3 comes after boss 2. Boss 4 comes after boss 3 and was said to be stronger", the things every playable character would scale to, but not character-exclusive stuff happens in between that and connotations of power for playable characters, it's easier for the profiles to have all that. It's complicated, but I can see it shortened after the info can be accessed elsewhere.
Similar point to be made on "establish consistency" for how a regular person would react. But I can see it being shortened more easily, but also many characters did feats together, so "people who actually have distinct speed feats" would still be kinda long, like Star Allies reacting to chasing Jamba heart pieces on a Warp Star from planet to planet from 2 sides of the galaxy.
As said before, the idea is to explain why the characters are at those levels, while also putting their limits within it (using team work, things being in side content).
Same as said before. In general, I'm not a fan of deleting information if it isn't wrong, but to have it elsewhere. Talking about things with some use of course.
A bit outdated now, I could have removed it.
Isn't this only talking about hax potency? That's done like 2 times with for example, regular Ice Kirby scaling to that absolute zero being impossible to believe if not explained.
Understandable.
I don't see it, and it says so 2 times;
Following that it says "Note that Kirby's ability to "transform himself with his copy ability", a power he's stated to have, is along the mysterious & unreasonable things he can do, meaning that it's possible that all, if not most of what he shows being able to do via Toon Force isn't Toon Force at all, and they're simply supernatural things he can do perfectly logically in-universe."
So, what in any other verse would 100% be Toon Force, here it's hesitant to claim so, because it portrayed that maybe it is or maybe it isn't. Idk how to word it better.
You mean the "Potential uses" part. For example when he bats a world-destroying meteor away and the meteor itself survives that for quite a while while destroying small moons over and over lined up in its trajectory, is this not Toon Force? Or is it not worth saying that his elastic properties are maybe 100% natural, or maybe helped by Toon Force, things like it could go either way.
For the former bit I went over above, things like his Copy Abilities and duplication, which one would think are natural powers, are portrayed in the same as powers that imply Toon Force, it's not clear what is what. There is "speculating" and then there is saying "this is presented in this 2 variable ways".
Uff, guilty as charged.
I see it as a special case due to not being straight forward. Anyone can just think "He only has that with that Copy Ability" and that would be super reasonable, at glance. I can see it shortened, if not as much as maybe you would like because of that.
It talks about the Kirby from the separated Smash continuity, why take issue with going over the context and in-universe consistency. I see your point in general, but in parts I don't take as much issue with needing to read like this, anyone who sees just "Kirby doesn't have bones, according to his creator (link to statement)" can reasonably think it's BS because it's Smash Kirby, not canon Kirby, and wonder what his actual series has about it. I believe cases like that are worth taking care of by writing what's needed to avoid it; by thinking of what reasonable reactions readers may have & account for them, which I put above having less to read or looking ugly. If again, you do have a point in many parts.
Right after it it says "Still, he's more consistently able to inhale & not swallow bombs & missiles in a way that they don't blow up inside his body.", the info presented being that he can get f*cked up by eating a bomb, or at least if he already has things inhaled, but most of the time he doesn't. Sometimes things work in variable ways depending of what situations they face, so I don't say "it works like this, believe me", but give the info & expect the conclusions to come somewhat on its own. I don't for example say "Kirby getting blown up by inhaling a bomb is an outlier", nor do I avoid saying it altogether because if someone knows of that situation & sees the profile not touch it, they will think that he can't inhale bombs and that the profile misses that or knew a clear anti-feat & didn't care.
True.
Very fair. I would think a mistake like it is isolated.
Well, again, my thought process isn't to talk for no reason but account for reasonable reactions to reading what we claim and keeping in mind all possible variable ways in which something may work & hold limits, when they're not straight forward. As long as there is some Vs Debates-related context to it, rather than pointlessly.
I will move it to a Note listing those claims to shorten space, and have the Pocket Reality Manip say "While often said to be a "bottomless" stomach[Note], there isn't enough evidence for it to be infinite in size."
Ok on the blue. Those 3 uses should be fine in a bulleted list? They're all different, the first one is pretty notable (not that Kirby uses this IC anyway), the second is mildly useful, and the last one redundant for something he does to his weapons when gaining elemental powers.
It says he splits up too, I put it there back when there was "less" evidence and someone could think it's just a noncanon game celebration. A recognition of the ability, on top of relating it with "Kirby being strange", built into the legitimacy of the power. "More than necessary", sure, ig I prefer that fault.
Ok, so, I believe I wanted to move all those images into an album back then and leave the profile with less, but I forgot. I will eventually do that. For ref of what I will say next.
Right next to it it says "(e.g. they can eat food sent by the original Kirby for the latter to take points from, or even replace the original should this one die, but that was only shown once)", which the gallery next to it shows. They can also use their own Copy Abilities as shown there.
Well, one would otherwise believe they're well above, if not absurdly above Kirby's own stats or what his Copy Abilities can do, it needs to be said that they became "only a bit better" in those regards. A collapsible box can be used.
Sure, I will try.
Uff. I never did imagine one would conclude that.
Whichever you want. There are definitely things that on second view could have been shorter.
Let me evaluate that:
Some of them are that simple, other items take far more space to write. It seemed completely sensical on the lack of an alternative and not knowing it was an issue.
Idk what "unrelated" quotes you talk about. "Tabbers that go three deep" should have something to show. Idk what you mean by the last bit.
Understood.
You mean things like Mixed Ability, Super Abilities, Limited Use Abilities being all covered at once with 1 of those, ok.
I would think it makes it shorter, are you sure?
I think it's perfectly understandable, his first key tells you his general intelligence and his intelligence in adventures & combat, so one looks at only those tabbers. His next key adds something new that's can't apply to the rest, so separates that. His intelligence in adventures & combat is the only one where he develops, so within it they are those " | " separations.
So, again, I think it was perfectly understandable, and I wouldn't have imagined how to do it w/o the tabbers. But if you're telling me to use collapsible boxes then ok.
I disagree.
- 1 set intelligence by our standards would make him a Genius because he grabbed a wrench and built a spaceship he used to fly in space shoot some enemies. Our Intelligence page also animates to have separations like what Kirby has.
- As for "write an essay", rough topic, but I will defend it.
- His general general intelligence is below average, not elaborating on that will miss out "what does it mean to be Kirby", essentially, a dumb character like him can do 20 different actions, some being pretty competent & impressive, in a way that he's still a dumb character. Not to mention what type of things he would do based on what situations he's in, I believe that should be properly expressed.
- In combat, one would normally see a Combat Genius in profiles like that, but half of the time I don't think the feats given reach that & feel like it's exaggerated. It's hard to qualify, but I believe it should be judged by seeing what they can do, properly. So no issue with an essay there.
One wouldn't know if not told what Kirby has seen and been unbothered by; Imagine someone puts Kirby up against a horror character, then another tries to look things up to evaluate how it would go down, it would be reasonable for any random person to still think "Kirby would get traumatized by [X], petrified/messing his decision-making", because he looks & acts like a small plushie. People need to first be told by someone, which I believe is us. Yes, that is a form of intelligence, it's experience & emotional intelligence.
If character A can beat up a giant monster with wings then good for them. If character B can do the same, + is purposely able to first destroy the wings to have an easier time beating up the monster, then that's even better. Again, how is this not intelligence and not something you need to be told if you're a random person? I mean separate from the fact that it's a small detail.
Definitely not the intent.
If I can move all that stuff into a blog like this and link that, I would have no issue making it of that size. I had it as explaining it properly, not conveying a message.
Yes, because it's both "one of many Copy Abilities he has", so it's mixed between them, and also "a transformation that triggers on its own when dying", so there is a purpose to quickly look into that and what it has going on, without needing to find it and have things around you don't need when talking about a dead Kirby who turned into it. Needless to say this makes perfect sense to me.
That doesn't seem proper, this is ( ...conservatively, unless one assumes everyone in the verse always has & had it via friendship) a different power that works on its own rules. "Feats" cover feats, not mechanics & new abilities, P&A does that.
That's true.
Define intuitive? For any regular person, a character like Kirby being that strong, let alone other characters w/o his combat record & connotations of power, is a massive pill to swallow. I'm talking about reasonable suspension of disbelief, not bad faith. I need to update the blogs in scaling, but that only covers "Boss 3 comes after boss 2. Boss 4 comes after boss 3 and was said to be stronger", the things every playable character would scale to, but not character-exclusive stuff happens in between that and connotations of power for playable characters, it's easier for the profiles to have all that. It's complicated, but I can see it shortened after the info can be accessed elsewhere.
Similar point to be made on "establish consistency" for how a regular person would react. But I can see it being shortened more easily, but also many characters did feats together, so "people who actually have distinct speed feats" would still be kinda long, like Star Allies reacting to chasing Jamba heart pieces on a Warp Star from planet to planet from 2 sides of the galaxy.
As said before, the idea is to explain why the characters are at those levels, while also putting their limits within it (using team work, things being in side content).
Same as said before. In general, I'm not a fan of deleting information if it isn't wrong, but to have it elsewhere. Talking about things with some use of course.
A bit outdated now, I could have removed it.
Isn't this only talking about hax potency? That's done like 2 times with for example, regular Ice Kirby scaling to that absolute zero being impossible to believe if not explained.
Understandable.
I don't see it, and it says so 2 times;
- "contracting his limbs to become a ball": Remove his hands and feet and he becoems a ball of like 20 cm.
- "or contract into a smaller ball": While a ball, he contracts to be a ball of like 4 cm. It's not the same.
- "He's naturally a bit bounceable, exponentially so as a ball": It doesn't say he turns into one, but the properties along the way it talks about his own natural properties.
Following that it says "Note that Kirby's ability to "transform himself with his copy ability", a power he's stated to have, is along the mysterious & unreasonable things he can do, meaning that it's possible that all, if not most of what he shows being able to do via Toon Force isn't Toon Force at all, and they're simply supernatural things he can do perfectly logically in-universe."
So, what in any other verse would 100% be Toon Force, here it's hesitant to claim so, because it portrayed that maybe it is or maybe it isn't. Idk how to word it better.
You mean the "Potential uses" part. For example when he bats a world-destroying meteor away and the meteor itself survives that for quite a while while destroying small moons over and over lined up in its trajectory, is this not Toon Force? Or is it not worth saying that his elastic properties are maybe 100% natural, or maybe helped by Toon Force, things like it could go either way.
For the former bit I went over above, things like his Copy Abilities and duplication, which one would think are natural powers, are portrayed in the same as powers that imply Toon Force, it's not clear what is what. There is "speculating" and then there is saying "this is presented in this 2 variable ways".
Uff, guilty as charged.
I see it as a special case due to not being straight forward. Anyone can just think "He only has that with that Copy Ability" and that would be super reasonable, at glance. I can see it shortened, if not as much as maybe you would like because of that.
It talks about the Kirby from the separated Smash continuity, why take issue with going over the context and in-universe consistency. I see your point in general, but in parts I don't take as much issue with needing to read like this, anyone who sees just "Kirby doesn't have bones, according to his creator (link to statement)" can reasonably think it's BS because it's Smash Kirby, not canon Kirby, and wonder what his actual series has about it. I believe cases like that are worth taking care of by writing what's needed to avoid it; by thinking of what reasonable reactions readers may have & account for them, which I put above having less to read or looking ugly. If again, you do have a point in many parts.
Right after it it says "Still, he's more consistently able to inhale & not swallow bombs & missiles in a way that they don't blow up inside his body.", the info presented being that he can get f*cked up by eating a bomb, or at least if he already has things inhaled, but most of the time he doesn't. Sometimes things work in variable ways depending of what situations they face, so I don't say "it works like this, believe me", but give the info & expect the conclusions to come somewhat on its own. I don't for example say "Kirby getting blown up by inhaling a bomb is an outlier", nor do I avoid saying it altogether because if someone knows of that situation & sees the profile not touch it, they will think that he can't inhale bombs and that the profile misses that or knew a clear anti-feat & didn't care.
True.
Very fair. I would think a mistake like it is isolated.
Well, again, my thought process isn't to talk for no reason but account for reasonable reactions to reading what we claim and keeping in mind all possible variable ways in which something may work & hold limits, when they're not straight forward. As long as there is some Vs Debates-related context to it, rather than pointlessly.
I will move it to a Note listing those claims to shorten space, and have the Pocket Reality Manip say "While often said to be a "bottomless" stomach[Note], there isn't enough evidence for it to be infinite in size."
Ok on the blue. Those 3 uses should be fine in a bulleted list? They're all different, the first one is pretty notable (not that Kirby uses this IC anyway), the second is mildly useful, and the last one redundant for something he does to his weapons when gaining elemental powers.
It says he splits up too, I put it there back when there was "less" evidence and someone could think it's just a noncanon game celebration. A recognition of the ability, on top of relating it with "Kirby being strange", built into the legitimacy of the power. "More than necessary", sure, ig I prefer that fault.
Ok, so, I believe I wanted to move all those images into an album back then and leave the profile with less, but I forgot. I will eventually do that. For ref of what I will say next.
Right next to it it says "(e.g. they can eat food sent by the original Kirby for the latter to take points from, or even replace the original should this one die, but that was only shown once)", which the gallery next to it shows. They can also use their own Copy Abilities as shown there.
Well, one would otherwise believe they're well above, if not absurdly above Kirby's own stats or what his Copy Abilities can do, it needs to be said that they became "only a bit better" in those regards. A collapsible box can be used.
Sure, I will try.
Uff. I never did imagine one would conclude that.
Whichever you want. There are definitely things that on second view could have been shorter.
Let me evaluate that:
- Alien of unknown species (Possibly the same species as Meta Knight, which is left as a mystery up to one's imagination[1][2]): It's portrayed that maybe they're of the same race, but not confirmed on purpose. That's something that should be said, it has value. + removing that could make one think they are, in fact, of the same race, when the portrayal is not that straight forward.
- Pink Puffball (Often referred to as such. Has also received several other descriptions based on his color, size & shape): That last part is unnecessary.
- Pink Demon (Sometimes untranslated title regarding his skill and power in consecutive combat): Remove that and one may think he's an actual demon. It should have been just "Title regarding his skill & power" tho.
- Hero of the lower world (By the beings in Floralia): Floralia is some place above Dreamland. Remove that and it looks like Popstar is this "lower world".
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Well, for that case, sure.
In general, honestly official Kirby translations are the bane of my existence, they always miss out tiny bits that build into something larger and mislead into implying something that one thinks it's consistent with other things when that's all wrong. And obviously one sees the mistranslations over and over when looking at scaling & abilities in gameplay & cutscenes, having less time to understand "wait, so this meant this" than if they were always seeing the fan translations.
On the Magolor quote for example,
- I would guess "he seeks to reclaim them" refers to "Magolor's powers", not the crown's, but the Jap. version makes it more clear. So someone reading the page would read that quote, and then the correct version when needed to for scaling, needing to only keep in mind the one that matters.
- The series has this worldbuilding thing where they refer to universes as "skies", either at random or when it otherwise makes 0 sense for real skies to be talked about. So that's something originally intended to see & say "Hey, they did that thing again" that gets missed out for a more logically-sounding sentence, which one could argue has more weight.
Honestly, I'm checking Kirby on other wikis, and this is much more readable, no offense.
@The_Pink_God did it if you wonder.
Kirby
Kirby is the titular pink puff and main protagonist of Nintendo's Kirby series of video games. He made his debut appearance in 1992, starring in Kirby's Dream Land. The series has been running for over two decades, and over thirty titles have been released under Kirby's name, most of which are...all-fiction-battles.fandom.com
Ah.
You said that at day 2 tho.
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For an important Kirby thing you seem to be very slow to respond, 3 day mark, was it?
Ped2018
He/Him- 5,003
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I mean, this is a long ass post that he just posted.
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My plan was to add all the stuff from the CRT due to how big it was & how many profiles it went over, and then look at all the notifications I had and see to them as to not divide attention, so that's why it took me so long. Sorry for the inconveniences. Though I was looking at the CRT related to what I was doing, if a comment was made there about not liking the profiles I would have stopped sooner. In any case, it doesn't matter now.
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Can't you just work on sandboxes for simplified profiles?
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Yeah that'd be preferable so people can view the formatting and stuff before its fully applied
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******* glorious
Ped2018
He/Him- 5,003
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Why were you torturing yourself
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I think it's for all of them, not just Magolor. I would honestly prefer having no quotes over the poorly fan-translated ones, they're just not pleasant to read in a casual setting. But I would seriously doubt that the official quotes would really do that much harm to add in for flavor.
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I would actually say that there should be some form of separation between those types and normal abilities.
I think you could just do "At least Below Average, Above Average in combat, Genius regarding technology" or something. I feel like you could argue those feats don't really work for Genius but I'm not going to here.
I guess that's somewhat notable? But I would honestly list it in standard tactics over intelligence.
I would list it as Enhanced AD then.
I think laying out the scaling in a blog is better, especially given that I don't think the logic is super unquestionable. If you're afraid of people questioning Kirby's strength, I would list maybe one or two secondary feats like the meteor baseball minigame or megaton punch.
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Uh, no they don't lol
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I mean that those are elaborated in detail there.
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Honestly in their regards, given that they're primarily (at least i guess so for the latter given that I haven't played V3) intelligence-based characters, I wouldn't mind a super fat intelligence section. But that's neither here nor there ig.
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Well, for me, I would more so take accuracy over being not being pleasant to read, and a lack of any quote or changing it for another quote over an inaccurate one if needed to. Tell me which ones you don't like and I will see.
Well, if it's minor and situational "standard tactics" would not cover it, intelligence would. I'm moving most of it to a blog tho.
We will see the rest once it's on the sandbox.
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Monaca is not from V3 but UDG, which is between 2 and 3.
But besides that, I just think that for Kirby we should simply put the most important stuff in his primary sections (like its most impressive feats/scalings, for the P&A the most straightfoward showings of it, etc.) and then put all the rest in a feats section.
You don't need to list every single final boss in the AP section if they all scale to the same feat.
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All of the translated ones, genuinely, I think they're just not well written. Which is fine, they're not meant to be, but I don't think they work at all in context. I still think the English ones are fine, a tiny smidge of inaccuracy for the sake of being much more effective is a fine trade when it comes to page quotes. But, I dunno, depends how others feel
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,585
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As long as the translations aren't so incredibly different that the official one may as well be fanfiction I think it's fine to use the official translations for the quotes since they flow better than a more direct translation.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,185
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To kinda parrot what Armorchompy is saying, the directly translated quotes are best for when they're needed for scaling purposes and the like. But, if they're just for quotes on the page, it's best to go with what's more legible
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Copy Abilities are done. If each Friend Abilities will one day in the far future get their own subsections in their box, as they have their own moves with different properties.
Many translations are incredibly different than the official ones, not because they "may as well be fanfiction", but because the official translations are infamously terrible. Like Hypernova saying that Kirby's stomach becomes a black hole.
I'm aware, my personal view on the matter is the same.
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I would like to add what's done so far (P&A and Notable Attacks/Techniques), anyone willing to evaluate it?
vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Eficiente/SandboxSK
vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Eficiente/SandboxSK
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Why… isn’t this just Immunity to Bone Manipulation?
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That would imply he's immune to getting smacked with bones too, I guess
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I'd just go with Limited Immunity to Bone Manipulation
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Exactly.
Well, I believe "Limited Immunity" sounds counterintuitive, while "having his bones manipulated" says things as they are.
I can respond any question, everyone feel free to ask.
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Not necessarily. Because it is an immunity, just not to every kind of Bone Manipulation
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Sure but "having his bones manipulated" says it all at once, whereas "Limited" stands for meaning that, which the reader needs to get, which will be quickly, but could be seen as pretentious with how uncommon "Limited Immunity" is and needing to stand for something rather than simply saying it.
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Surely you could just specify in the justification that he’s immune to having his bones manipulated because he doesn’t have any.
Technically, Bone Manipulation is; “the ability to manipulate one's own bones or that of others“, so you wouldn’t have to be immune to being hit by bones to have an Immunity to Bone Manipulation.
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