Kirby Cosmology Upgrade Part 2

[Peptocoptr27]

A follow-up to this thread. I eventually allowed it to become inactive in order to get a better understanding of our confusing and seemingly self-contradictory tier 1 standards. In the process, I made a Q&A thread, started discussions with staff members, and edited my blog.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogeptocoptr027/Understanding_Kirby's_Messy_Cosmology:_Low_1-C_vs_2-C

The conclusion remains the same, the point of this thread is still to upgrade Kirby cosmology to Low 1-C. This time, I'll do my best to present the main argument in a clear and concise way to make sure no one ignores it or misinterprets it while reading the somewhat large wall of text that is my blog.


The Main Argument

According to our standards, a realm superior to the pre-existing dimensions of a cosmology is Low 1-C as long as the dimensions in question are physical dimensional axes rather than a synonym for "universe" or "world", and as long as the cosmology is 4D without it.

In this official Tweet, Another Dimension is referred to as another world which exceeds/surpasses (超えて) time and dimensions (次元).
"超えて" always refers to a superiority, unlike "越える" which can simply mean residing outside of something
"次元" always refers to mathematical dimensions (or dimensionality as a whole). Given how the statement is worded, it's already pretty hard to see it as relating to Another Dimension as anything other than a higher-dimensional place in relation to the other dimensions in the verse but this piece of info should seal the deal if what I learned on our Wiki's standards over the last few months is any indication. Also, keep in mind that this is just the main body of the argument. For more context and back-up evidence, you'll have to read the blog.

DISCLAIMER: Now that 2-C Kirby has been accepted, it's easy to jump to the conclusion that Kirby outright scales to his entire cosmology, making him Low 1-C. It's not that simple. though. High end Kirby feats are so ambiguous that it took YEARS and loads of context clues for Magolor's feat to become 2-C to begin with. If you want to upgrade it to Low 1-C, save it for another thread. Let's keep the cosmology as the main topic of discussion in this one.
Also, I'm keeping the votes of the last thread since the pro-Low 1-C arguments technically didn't change since then.


Agreement: 32 (Ultima, CloverDragon03, Justkillme42069, DaReaperMan, Arceus0x, azontr, AbaddonTheDissappointment, Lord_JJJ, Bernkastell, M1ntyIc3CreamXZ, Guardian_Doge, Starsprite53, ThatOneMofo, Apex_PredatorX, Greenshifter, sanicspood, Pokemonfan807, The_Pink_God, Livinmeme, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Ottavio_Merluzzo, Delta333, Meganova_Stella, Eseseso, Darkz, LeSupremeKing1, Kflare63, Kirbymovies, Mephistus, XXKINGXX69, Kirbonic_Pikmin, Bobsican)
Disagreement: 4 (Gohanblanco217, ShadowWarrior1999, Everything12, Efficiente)
Neutral: 8 (y3p_owo, Brak, ElexirBlue, HammerStrikes219, Tarang123, Sus, Elizhaa, Ned_the_outer_god)

 

[Urshani]

Agree

 

[The_Pink_God]

You are one persistent mf aren't you
I'll be following this

 

[Tarang123]

Truly persistent. Neutral, as I once was. I'll be looking through the thread in more detail a little later.

 

[Zencha9]

the use of kanji is irrelevant because the meaning changes with the context, the context here is just going beyond
so i'll disagree just like how i did in the last thread unless something new shows up that changes the context behind these statements

 

[Firestorm808]

@Peptocoptr27

Do you wish to close this thread?

 

[Urshani]

ask em

 

[Sus]

@Peptocoptr27

Do you wish to close this thread?

Why?

 

[Firestorm808]

Why?

This thread was previously closed without a reason in the thread or comment, and I wanted to make sure if the OP was aware of the closure or requested it.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Alright, I didn't respond to this in the past thread.

So extra dimension is quite different from Extra Dimensional. One deals with higher Dimensions while the other deals with travels and spiritual planes. So we should stop confusing the both. Based on what I have read, every context just points out that it deals travel so I disagree on low 1-C

 

[Lormac_CC]

Add me on disagree. Also things referred to as extra Dimensional shouldn't be taken as extra Dimension but inter Dimension

 

[Sus]

This thread was previously closed without a reason in the thread or comment, and I wanted to make sure if the OP was aware of the closure or requested it.

I eventually allowed it to become inactive in order to get a better understanding of our confusing and seemingly self-contradictory tier 1 standards. In the process, I made a Q&A thread, started discussions with staff members, and edited my blog.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

@Peptocoptr27

Do you wish to close this thread?

Of course not. I got forcefully silenced after 4 replies. I am grateful that you opened it back up, but my top priority was actually figuring out who did it and talk to them. I'm used to being ignored on this topic, or to be provided bare-bones "debunks" followed up by nothing after I respond to them, but this is the first time I witness first hand such an abuse of power on the Wiki. This is why I'm so persistent. I wasn't given any reason to believe this upgrade isn't legitimate and those who disagree keep resorting to more drastic means to force the debate to its unnatural conclusion. All hope isn't lost because Elexirblue, Elizhaa and (more recently) Ultima have been around to actually listen, but this incident still shows a major flaw in the Wiki's management. It sure isn't making its terrible reputation any better.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

the use of kanji is irrelevant because the meaning changes with the context, the context here is just going beyond
so i'll disagree just like how i did in the last thread unless something new shows up that changes the context behind these statements

Affirming a Disjunct Fallacy. While kanjis do have variable definitions depending on the context, they can also vary based on how they're written. I even provided links to prove it.

Alright, I didn't respond to this in the past thread.

So extra dimension is quite different from Extra Dimensional. One deals with higher Dimensions while the other deals with travels and spiritual planes. So we should stop confusing the both. Based on what I have read, every context just points out that it deals travel so I disagree on low 1-C

You're far behind on this one, dude. You're still using arguments from my extremely primitive first blog. This has nothing to do with anything argued in the current one or even the main argument presented in the OP. Hell, the "Extra Dimension" statement was a mistranslation, and you would have seen that if you actually read my blog.

Add me on disagree.

I can't, because the foundation of your counter-argument is outdated to the point that it's unrelated to the topic at hand.

 

[Zencha9]

Affirming a Disjunct Fallacy. While kanjis do have variable definitions depending on the context, they can also vary based on how they're written. I even provided links to prove it.

How they're written again does not matter unless it has no further context meanwhile in this case the context is very clear

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Prove it. I already did my part. It's gonna be a hard sell because it's objectively true that most Japanese words don't have 1 for 1 English translations of each other. In this case, "Koeru" doesn't literally translate to "beyond". It's just one of the many ways you could translate it if you wanted to. The most unambiguous way to translate it in the context of the Tweet would be how I did in the blog. You can also replace "which exceeds" with "which surpasses" or "which is superior to" if you want. They're all valid and they all state a superiority over something, which in this case is over time and physical dimensions (Jigen 次元). You could also call them spatial dimensions in this case. What matters is that they're mathematical in nature, which makes the statement pretty blatantly 5D by our standards.

 

[Sus]

Change my vote to neutral

 

[Tarang123]

I can't, because the foundation of your counter-argument is outdated to the point that it's unrelated to the topic at hand.

I mean, he can still disagree with the argument being made

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Change my vote to neutral

Not sure what caused the change, but ok, if you have any questions about the upgrade, ask away.

I mean, he can still disagree with the argument being made

That's the problem. The thing he disagrees with isn't the argument being made. By denying his vote right now, I'm giving it a chance to make it actually matter later on.

 

[Sus]

Not sure what caused the change, but ok, if you have any questions about the upgrade, ask away.

I want to see all arguments before i decide again

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Bump....

 

[Arceus0x]

worry not mate. The whole wiki is kinda dead rn so we gotta wait.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I guess that is a relief, but why is it dead?

 

[Arceus0x]

I guess that is a relief, but why is it dead?

Idk. Vs debating is dying in general (i mean compare the views for death battle from early 2020 and 2021) and there's been many who left including myself. I'm only here cause kirby.

 

[Eseseso]

I agree with the OP.

Btw, just curious, in a hypothetical situation where Kirby was a Low 1-C, would he be 5-dimensional or 6-dimensional?

 

[sanicspood]

5d

 

[Eseseso]

5d

Thank you.

Unfortunately, that means that he'd still lose to the Infinity Gauntlet. Just a mental fight scenario I'd been wondering.

 

[Tarang123]

Unfortunately, that means that he'd still lose to the Infinity Gauntlet. Just a mental fight scenario I'd been wondering.

Kinda unrelated, but this thread is pretty dead

 

[Eseseso]

Idk. Vs debating is dying in general (i mean compare the views for death battle from early 2020 and 2021) and there's been many who left including myself. I'm only here cause kirby.

Well this is so accurate but also so depressing.

 

[Arceus0x]

Generally i agree with everything and what we need is debate from the staff

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Well this is so accurate but also so depressing.

Exactly. It means that no VS related Wiki may ever really be alive again. I seriously considered quitting VS debating myself about a year back, but now it seems I'm one of the people who care the most about it... Feels bad man.

Generally i agree with everything and what we need is debate from the staff

Elizhaa should join in on monday. Ultima also said he'd show up

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, I basically quit it until Covid, not to mention a growing interest in Fairy Tail and One Piece got me back in.

 

[Arceus0x]

i came back cause kirby. i promised to come back for kirby.

 

[Eseseso]

i came back cause kirby. i promised to come back for kirby.

Respect.

Ngl, I remember the days where I was the biggest Kirby fanboy in the history of VS debating, back in 2015 and 2016.

Even then, I had no idea he could (hypothetically) be a low 1-C, I just thought he was a 2-B at best (and even that I didn't think was likely).


I miss the days of VS debating in 2015 and 2016.

 

[Eseseso]

I miss all the Death Battles on Deviantart, especially those with Kirby.

Like VS debating, the era of Deviantart DB's are gone.

Which is sad because ironically, Screwattack's Death Battles are actually better now than most of their early counterparts.

 

[Arceus0x]

I miss all the Death Battles on Deviantart, especially those with Kirby.

Like VS debating, the era of Deviantart DB's are gone.

Which is sad because ironically, Screwattack's Death Battles are actually better now than most of their early counterparts.

Aight lets stop reminiscing, we're derailing the thread. You can search up Kirby discussion thread fun edition to talk about kirby further

 

[Eseseso]

Aight lets stop reminiscing, we're derailing the thread. You can search up Kirby discussion thread fun edition to talk about kirby further

Sorry, got carried away there.

But I still agree with the Low 1-C stuff, since the explanations are pretty solid.

Pity no-one scales to it (for now), though.

 

[y3p_owo]

bump

 

[Darkz]

Agree.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

This is low-key depressing. Really no one cares anymore, huh? Even Effi's own Kirby thread is BARELY getting any attention even though 2-C has been anticipated for so many years. How did the VS community die so suddenly? The only staff member I've seen actively participating in threads recently is Ant.

In other words: Bump