Kirby Cosmology Upgrade Part 2

[CloverDragon03]

You're not staff it just shows you in the list because Image Helpers and Calc Group Members are quite useful in some scenarios.

Who are the 2 in support of this then?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Who are the 2 in support of this then?

Idk I was just pointing that out.

 

[Eseseso]

Who are the 2 in support of this then?

My bad then.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members agree with what here.

Also, are James' and Eficiente's, respectively Pepto's sides of the argument here write single explanation posts for said arguments, so we can call more staff members here for evaluation help?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Which staff members agree with what here.

Also, are James' and Eficiente's, respectively Pepto's sides of the argument here write single explanation posts for said arguments, so we can call more staff members here for evaluation help?

You're asking me and others to summarize ours idea right? I'll summarize mine here in case that's right.

Another Dimension has statements about it transcending space and time, in the context of the dimensional complexity hierarchy. This thread proposes that this should signify that Another Dimension is 5D and tier Low 1-C, but I don't think that's a reliable conclusion. The statements don't have evidence of specifically referring to Another Dimension's size. The statements also don't clearly convey that Another Dimension is infinitely above 4D infinity, just that it "is 5D", and not as a direct quote, but as what's implied unless it's just misleading flowery language. If something is claimed to be 5D, it shouldn't be taken as definitely tier 1 with no questions asked unless there is better proof to support that idea. (This is the method used in many other circumstances when it comes to other statements and their relationship with other tiers.)

 

[Arceus0x]

You're asking me and others to summarize ours idea right? I'll summarize mine here in case that's right.

Another Dimension has statements about it transcending space and time, in the context of the dimensional complexity hierarchy. This thread proposes that this should signify that Another Dimension is 5D and tier Low 1-C, but I don't think that's a reliable conclusion. The statements don't have evidence of specifically referring to Another Dimension's size. The statements also don't clearly convey that Another Dimension is infinitely above 4D infinity, just that it "is 5D", and not as a direct quote, but as what's implied unless it's just misleading flowery language. If something is claimed to be 5D, it shouldn't be taken as definitely tier 1 with no questions asked unless there is better proof to support that idea. (This is the method used in many other circumstances when it comes to other statements and their relationship with other tiers.)

DMC just had their 5D tiering accepted by having a universe contain another universe and them being compared to be a ray of light (of unknown size btw) splitting endless darkness. Nobody had issues with that.

Arceus' realm was accepted as 5D for transcending space and time and being unreachable to those who can traverse a 2-A multiverse.

Now let's look at Kirby. Pretty much blatant extra-dimensional statement and statments that it transcends space and time. It seems to contain several universes, potentially located in bubbles. It can also connect different timelines throughout time, enabling time travel.

I don't care if you call these things whataboutisms or whatever but why is it that other verses have an easier time but Kirby needs every statement in existence to support an exact definition of 5D?

I say at the very least a possibly is very much possible in this specific case.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

DMC just had their 5D tiering accepted by having a universe contain another universe and them being compared to be a ray of light (of unknown size btw) splitting endless darkness. Nobody had issues with that.

Arceus' realm was accepted as 5D for transcending space and time and being unreachable to those who can traverse a 2-A multiverse.

Now let's look at Kirby. Pretty much blatant extra-dimensional statement and statments that it transcends space and time. It seems to contain several universes, potentially located in bubbles. It can also connect different timelines throughout time, enabling time travel.

I don't care if you call these things whataboutisms or whatever but why is it that other verses have an easier time but Kirby needs every statement in existence to support an exact definition of 5D?

I say at the very least a possibly is very much possible in this specific case.

I don't care about other fictional works when discussing this matter. I've seen multiple staff members accept a thread proposing that a fictional work should be upgraded to tier High 3-A based on a statement of infinite power that is very clearly a hyperbole.

Anyway, I don't know what "DMC" is, but the way it might treat its universes within a universe might be usable evidence for the biggest one being 5D, whereas Kirby's series has nothing (confirmed) like that. Arceus' realm being beyond space and time is useless information when proving that it's 5D without the added context that characters who can fully traverse a tier 2-A multiverse can't reach it. The bubbles seen in Another Dimension being universes is complete headcanon. With your two comparison examples, there are more clear comparisons, so you're doing the false analogy fallacy. I could headcanon that Kirby having "infinite power" means he is "possibly" tier 0 and I would be using your exact logic.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The bubbles seen in Another Dimension being universes is complete headcanon.

Gonna address this. This literally isn't headcanon. The dimensions within Another Dimension are accepted as being universes

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Gonna address this. This literally isn't headcanon. The dimensions within Another Dimension are accepted as being universes

Except it's not accepted and is literally headcanon. I've explained this already many posts ago.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Except it's not accepted and is literally headcanon. I've explained this already many posts ago.

My guy
That's literally the entire reason we have Kirby at 2-C
What are you talking about?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

My guy
That's literally the entire reason we have Kirby at 2-C
What are you talking about?

No it isn't. That's a misinterpretation of Eficiente's blog post. Read the posts from around when I started writing a lot in this thread to find more information about why. A good example is one of the points I made in post number 832. I'll even quote it...

In the Kirby Cosmology blog post by Eficiente, he refers to them as alternate version of planets as evidence for Another Dimension being a multiverse. "While going through space in the "Another Dimension" level in Return to Dream Land, it can be seen illusory places related to the planets Popstar and Halcandra in the background over and over again, in those places Kirby & co. just so happen to have previously traveled to Another Dimension via dimensional rifts. It could be that Kirby & co. are in fact passing by Popstar and Halcandra many times, those being alternative versions of those planets." I think what he means is that the heroes riding Landia were traveling through Another Dimension to different universes (probably as a subtle implication), and they saw parallel versions of planets they had previously been to in a previous universe, not that those visuals were the universes themselves. In this thread, I have seen those visuals be called timelines or universes, so it's not the same was what the blog post states. I think that even Eficiente's more grounded interpretation is a stretch, but at least it was among many other points that have better evidence.

The reason why Kirby's power has an accepted tier 2-C interpretation and why Another Dimension is regarded as a multiverse is because there is a likelihood that Kirby's Return to Dream Land treated its different sections within Another Dimension as different universes instead of different solar systems within a single universe. Kirby is powerscaled to the dimensional wall that spread across all of those sections, as well as the Energy Spheres that likely purified universes. The justification has nothing to do with the insignificant background elements within Another Dimension that look like previous locations that Kirby went to.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Why should these dimensions we see in AD be assumed to be any different from those that are accepted as universes? Occam's Razor dictates the opposite, really

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Why should these dimensions we see in AD be assumed to be any different from those that are accepted as universes? Occam's Razor dictates the opposite, really

There are no "dimensions we see". They are fading projections or bubbles depending on what version of the game you're using. If we're using Occam's Razor, then assume that they're literally just projections or bubbles, because that's what they look like. The idea of them being universes is headcanon. They are not the same entities as the accepted universes, so we have no reason to associate the two together when the fading projections or bubbles have no deep information about them.

 

[CloverDragon03]

There are no "dimensions we see". They are fading projections or bubbles depending on what version of the game you're using. If we're using Occam's Razor, then assume that they're literally just projections or bubbles, because that's what they look like. The idea of them being universes is headcanon. They are not the same entities as the accepted universes, so we have no reason to associate the two together when the fading projections or bubbles have no deep information about them.

You can continue to assert this as true, but it really isn't. What we see are fading projections with a spiraling path toward them, so how would those just be bubbles?

In addition, it contains what is accepted as universes within it to begin with, and also cannot be accessed from Dreamland or Halcandra without the opening of a rift in the dimension. That pretty much checks off the "naturally inaccessible" requirement

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

You can continue to assert this as true, but it really isn't. What we see are fading projections with a spiraling path toward them, so how would those just be bubbles?

In addition, it contains what is accepted as universes within it to begin with, and also cannot be accessed from Dreamland or Halcandra without the opening of a rift in the dimension. That pretty much checks off the "naturally inaccessible" requirement

They are either fading projections or bubbles, depending on what version of the game you're using. Pay more attention. Why would I be claiming that fading projections are bubbles? What difference would this even make? Whether they're fading projections of previous locations or spheres containing depictions of previous locations, it doesn't change the fact that those are all they are, rather than universes. You need evidence of them being universes to consider them so. Pretending that they're already regarded as universes isn't going to fool me. A few posts ago, I gave emphasis to what is truly accepted, in contrary to what you're telling me right now. Didn't you read it?

 

[CloverDragon03]

They are either fading projections or bubbles, depending on what version of the game you're using. Pay more attention. Why would I be claiming that fading projections are bubbles? What difference would this even make? Whether they're fading projections of previous locations or spheres containing depictions of previous locations, it doesn't change the fact that those are all they are, rather than universes. You need evidence of them being universes to consider them so. Pretending that they're already regarded as universes isn't going to fool me. A few posts ago, I gave emphasis to what is truly accepted, in contrary to what you're telling me right now. Didn't you read it?

Okay but regardless, do you have an answer to my second point.

They contain universes within them, as accepted in Eficiente's blog, and are naturally inaccessible from the likes of Dreamland and Halcandra. The only way they've been accessed is through the opening of rifts in Another Dimension

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Okay but regardless, do you have an answer to my second point.

They contain universes within them, as accepted in Eficiente's blog, and are naturally inaccessible from the likes of Dreamland and Halcandra. The only way they've been accessed is through the opening of rifts in Another Dimension

I did answer your second point, by explaining how it's a misinterpretation. The interpretation isn't accepted in Eficiente's blog, which I had explained. I hope you won't make it so that I'll have to repeat myself for a third time.

Characters only being able to go to the stage where the projections or spheres are located via traveling through a portal isn't an important detail. The characters need to be capable of easily traveling anywhere in a tier 2-A world for this to be an important detail. If a tier 10 character was shown to only access an enclosed room via traveling through a portal, that doesn't signify that the room is 4D, that just means the character can't break in or use a different method such as teleportation.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I did answer your second point, by explaining how it's a misinterpretation. The interpretation isn't accepted in Eficiente's blog, which I had explained. I hope you won't make it so that I'll have to repeat myself for a third time.

You're literally just wrong (taken from Eficiente's blog)

Characters only being able to go to the stage where the projections or spheres are located via traveling through a portal isn't an important detail. The characters need to be capable of easily traveling anywhere in a tier 2-A world for this to be an important detail. If a tier 10 character was shown to only access an enclosed room via traveling through a portal, that doesn't signify that the room is 4D, that just means the character can't break in or use a different method such as teleportation.

This is not what I mean. I mean Another Dimension in itself cannot be accessed without opening a dimensional rift. This is shown in-game, as the only times Kirby and co. have gone into Another Dimension are when such a rift was open up. These are not mere portals, either, as when opened up from within Another Dimension, we see the space of Kirby's dimension visible on the other side of the rift

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

You're literally just wrong (taken from Eficiente's blog)

I already read that. Nothing you've told me or shown me so far changes the arguments I already made. So, I'm going to have to post my explanation a third time aren't I? Keep in mind that I'm trying to prevent embarrassment towards the opposition, not myself. If people aren't paying attention to my points in the first place, then repeating them wouldn't be the argument from repetition fallacy. I'm only holding back because I'm trying to encourage you to focus more.

This is not what I mean. I mean Another Dimension in itself cannot be accessed without opening a dimensional rift. This is shown in-game, as the only times Kirby and co. have gone into Another Dimension are when such a rift was open up. These are not mere portals, either, as when opened up from within Another Dimension, we see the space of Kirby's dimension visible on the other side of the rift

This is just how portals work. If a fictional work makes it so that portals are the only way to travel to a certain world, that doesn't make the world 5D, it just means the other characters can't use dimensional travel in other ways. Plus, Kirby can use a Warp Star to travel to Another Dimension, so what you're writing is false anyway.

The portal was a route towards Planet Popstar, so that's why the planet was depicted within the portal.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I already read that. Nothing you've told me or shown me so far changes the arguments I already made. So, I'm going to have to post my explanation a third time aren't I? Keep in mind that I'm trying to prevent embarrassment towards the opposition, not myself. If people aren't paying attention to my points in the first place, then repeating them wouldn't be the argument from repetition fallacy. I'm only holding back because I'm trying to encourage you to focus more.

Given that you cite Eficiente's blog as a primary source of evidence, it's only natural I'd use that. If they're accepted as universes, then they're universes. It's as simple as that.

And what embarrassment, exactly? You're getting really condescending and I'm not a fan of it.

This is just how portals work. If a fictional work makes it so that portals are the only way to travel to a certain world, that doesn't make the world 5D, it just means the other characters can't use dimensional travel in other ways. Plus, Kirby can use a Warp Star to travel to Another Dimension, so what you're writing is false anyway.

The portal was a route towards Planet Popstar, so that's why the planet was depicted within the portal.

Portals in Kirby have not shown what's on the other side of the portal, as shown in Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

These were answered in the opposite order for the sake of visual convenience.

Portals in Kirby have not shown what's on the other side of the portal, as shown in Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot

Why does that matter? Aside from that, the same applies to portals during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, except when Magolor said that he was going to conquer Planet Popstar then created a portal leading to it.

Given that you cite Eficiente's blog as a primary source of evidence, it's only natural I'd use that. If they're accepted as universes, then they're universes. It's as simple as that.

And what embarrassment, exactly? You're getting really condescending and I'm not a fan of it.

It's not condescending; it's that I'm encouraging you to notice what I have already written. This way of me trying to make the discussion more human seems to be failing miserably somehow, so I'll skip to the point. Below are quotes of what I have already written to explain what the VS Battles Wiki acknowledges about Another Dimension.

In the Kirby Cosmology blog post by Eficiente, he refers to them as alternate version of planets as evidence for Another Dimension being a multiverse. "While going through space in the "Another Dimension" level in Return to Dream Land, it can be seen illusory places related to the planets Popstar and Halcandra in the background over and over again, in those places Kirby & co. just so happen to have previously traveled to Another Dimension via dimensional rifts. It could be that Kirby & co. are in fact passing by Popstar and Halcandra many times, those being alternative versions of those planets." I think what he means is that the heroes riding Landia were traveling through Another Dimension to different universes (probably as a subtle implication), and they saw parallel versions of planets they had previously been to in a previous universe, not that those visuals were the universes themselves. In this thread, I have seen those visuals be called timelines or universes, so it's not the same was what the blog post states. I think that even Eficiente's more grounded interpretation is a stretch, but at least it was among many other points that have better evidence.

The reason why Kirby's power has an accepted tier 2-C interpretation and why Another Dimension is regarded as a multiverse is because there is a likelihood that Kirby's Return to Dream Land treated its different sections within Another Dimension as different universes instead of different solar systems within a single universe. Kirby is powerscaled to the dimensional wall that spread across all of those sections, as well as the Energy Spheres that likely purified universes. The justification has nothing to do with the insignificant background elements within Another Dimension that look like previous locations that Kirby went to.

 

[CloverDragon03]

These were answered in the opposite order for the sake of visual convenience.

Why does that matter? Aside from that, the same applies to portals during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, except when Magolor said that he was going to conquer Planet Popstar then created a portal leading to it.

This isn't exactly the case. The background is a starry sky, which it also is in Another Dimension

It's not condescending; it's that I'm encouraging you to notice what I have already written. This way of me trying to make the discussion more human seems to be failing miserably somehow, so I'll skip to the point. Below are quotes of what I have already written to explain what the VS Battles Wiki acknowledges about Another Dimension.

Well when you start saying things like "I don't want to embarrass you," it comes off in a way that you might not have intended. Well... at least to me.

Now, having read this, I think you've gotta recognize one thing: I'm not talking about the projections anymore. Right now, I'm talking about how Another Dimension contains the different sections that are likely universes within it. Let's drop the background elements for now, because those are not relevant to what I'm talking about at the moment. The legitimacy of said background elements can be discussed later if need be.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This isn't exactly the case. The background is a starry sky, which it also is in Another Dimension

I thought you were conveying that the significance was that Planet Popstar was depicted in a portal. There isn't consistency with what portals look like in Kirby's series in general. What you wrote here is also the case when Star Dream summoned Galacta Knight at the end of Meta Knightmare Returns from Kirby: Planet Robobot, and isn't the case with portals explicitly leading towards Another Dimension in the context of it being a multiverse during Heroes in Another Dimension from Kirby Star Allies.

Well when you start saying things like "I don't want to embarrass you," it comes off in a way that you might not have intended. Well... at least to me.

Never mind. The problem was just a difference in perspective, which I don't want to explain in detail because it's only going to be a distraction from the main topic. What you wrote after this solved the confusion, so let's move on.

Now, having read this, I think you've gotta recognize one thing: I'm not talking about the projections anymore. Right now, I'm talking about how Another Dimension contains the different sections that are likely universes within it. Let's drop the background elements for now, because those are not relevant to what I'm talking about at the moment. The legitimacy of said background elements can be discussed later if need be.

Eficiente's blog post describes Another Dimension as a multiverse. That's what Another Dimension is currently acknowledged to be, and that's what Eficiente has described Another Dimension as in this very thread. (I've seen it in post number 897.) This only makes Another Dimension tier 2-C, hence why the characters have tier 2-C ranks. This is what's accepted. It's a mysterious world misleadingly named Another Dimension that contains multiple universes, making it a multiverse.

 

[Arceus0x]

I don't care about other fictional works when discussing this matter. I've seen multiple staff members accept a thread proposing that a fictional work should be upgraded to tier High 3-A based on a statement of infinite power that is very clearly a hyperbole.

Anyway, I don't know what "DMC" is, but the way it might treat its universes within a universe might be usable evidence for the biggest one being 5D, whereas Kirby's series has nothing (confirmed) like that. Arceus' realm being beyond space and time is useless information when proving that it's 5D without the added context that characters who can fully traverse a tier 2-A multiverse can't reach it. The bubbles seen in Another Dimension being universes is complete headcanon. With your two comparison examples, there are more clear comparisons, so you're doing the false analogy fallacy. I could headcanon that Kirby having "infinite power" means he is "possibly" tier 0 and I would be using your exact logic.

If you don't care about that then why should i care about what you are spouting?
What I'm saying is not headcanon and as stated by clover, accepted in efi's blog. There's more than enough evidence and you are just ignoring it for the sake of overcomplicating 5D and making sure Kirby doesn't get it.

Eficiente's blog post describes Another Dimension as a multiverse. That's what Another Dimension is currently acknowledged to be, and that's what Eficiente has described Another Dimension as in this very thread. (I've seen it in post number 897.) This only makes Another Dimension tier 2-C, hence why the characters have tier 2-C ranks. This is what's accepted. It's a mysterious world misleadingly named Another Dimension that contains multiple universes, making it a multiverse.

Yes it's a multiverse, changes nothing. Did you forget that Low 1-C is called "Low complex multiverse level"? It containing universes, connecting them throughout their timelines and surpassing time and space as well as being called extra-dimensional is damning evidence.
To add more to it, it also seems as though the only characters who can actually access and traverse AD are those who can open a portal to it, something that Kirby hasn't shown to be capable of as his warp star has only gone into actual universes and never into AD despite everything, suggesting a potential difference in accessibility as well.

Either way in my eyes this is more than enough to get a possibly 5D AD

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

If you don't care about that then why should i care about what you are spouting?
What I'm saying is not headcanon and as stated by clover, accepted in efi's blog. There's more than enough evidence and you are just ignoring it for the sake of overcomplicating 5D and making sure Kirby doesn't get it.

I proved why I don't care directly after based on what you wrote, so right now you're just avoiding answering me.

I also already explained how the headcanon isn't accepted in Eficiente's blog post. It's difficult to deal with people being so careless while they project that onto me by falsely claiming that I'm "just ignoring" stuff. I've ignored absolutely nothing and have given in-depth explanations for all the claims people have been making, which, when understood, are revealed to be the way that the VS Battles Wiki works that is easy to understand (at least to me). What you're writing about me has reached a degree of character assassination. Also, if Kirby's power were really 5D, then I wouldn't have a problem with it, so stop it with this "making sure Kirby doesn't get it" lying appeal to motive fallacy. This thread isn't even about Kirby's power.

Yes it's a multiverse, changes nothing. Did you forget that Low 1-C is called "Low complex multiverse level"? It containing universes, connecting them throughout their timelines and surpassing time and space as well as being called extra-dimensional is damning evidence.
To add more to it, it also seems as though the only characters who can actually access and traverse AD are those who can open a portal to it, something that Kirby hasn't shown to be capable of as his warp star has only gone into actual universes and never into AD despite everything, suggesting a potential difference in accessibility as well.

Either way in my eyes this is more than enough to get a possibly 5D AD

Another Dimension is a multiverse that's not 5D for the reasons I've written. The name of the tier doesn't completely signify what needs to be achieved to reach it. I've seen characters get lower ranks many times by producing enough energy rather than by destroying what the tier is named after. I can imagine that characters can be tiers named after celestial bodies by destroying enough space, or destroying a huge structure or character of those sizes. The rest of what you wrote are points I have already answered.

I'll show you how sensical I'm being though, using one of your points as an example...

To add more to it, it also seems as though the only characters who can actually access and traverse AD are those who can open a portal to it, something that Kirby hasn't shown to be capable of as his warp star has only gone into actual universes and never into AD despite everything, suggesting a potential difference in accessibility as well.

As I showed in post number 940, this is outright misinformation, since Kirby can reach Another Dimension via a Warp Star during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and I also explained that "if a fictional work makes it so that portals are the only way to travel to a certain world, that doesn't make the world 5D, it just means the other characters can't use dimensional travel in other ways", which went unanswered. This was only five posts before the one by you that I'm quoting right now, so you have no excuse of that you couldn't find it. Y'know what the person I was messaging did? They skipped over that point, which isn't totally bad, but now you're bringing it up again in a message that claims "there's more than enough evidence and you are just ignoring it for the sake of overcomplicating 5D and making sure Kirby doesn't get it", which means my point didn't fade away because I proved it to be correct, it faded away so it can surface again for me to have to continue to be like "this is wrong for the reasons I've already explained" because people are taking me for a fool. Now do you see the annoying underhanded methods I'm dealing with, that you're contributing to?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I thought you were conveying that the significance was that Planet Popstar was depicted in a portal. There isn't consistency with what portals look like in Kirby's series in general. What you wrote here is also the case when Star Dream summoned Galacta Knight at the end of Meta Knightmare Returns from Kirby: Planet Robobot, and isn't the case with portals explicitly leading towards Another Dimension in the context of it being a multiverse during Heroes in Another Dimension from Kirby Star Allies.

Both of these example rifts open up in the exact same way as in Return to Dream Land, displaying a level of consistency, especially in the former's case given the presence of the same starry sky.

Also, Galacta Knight in Planet Robobot has an attack where he literally tears open a rift into Another Dimension to attack you. You can even see the Lor Starcutter there.

Eficiente's blog post describes Another Dimension as a multiverse. That's what Another Dimension is currently acknowledged to be, and that's what Eficiente has described Another Dimension as in this very thread. (I've seen it in post number 897.) This only makes Another Dimension tier 2-C, hence why the characters have tier 2-C ranks. This is what's accepted. It's a mysterious world misleadingly named Another Dimension that contains multiple universes, making it a multiverse.

The reason I bring up the fact that these sections are accepted as universes is because Another Dimension is because the fact that Another Dimension contains these within it. The fact that Eficiente has described Another Dimension as a multiverse neither helps nor hurts either of our arguments, as it's all a matter of what kind of multiverse.

This is just how portals work. If a fictional work makes it so that portals are the only way to travel to a certain world, that doesn't make the world 5D, it just means the other characters can't use dimensional travel in other ways. Plus, Kirby can use a Warp Star to travel to Another Dimension, so what you're writing is false anyway.

I wanna address this too, it'd be one thing if they're portals, but they're evidently rifts. They open up through small dimensional tears that expand into ones you can enter into, which lead directly into the dimension itself rather than some portal-esque subspace between the location you left from and the location you're going to, unlike in the likes of Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot (which are evidently portals).

As for Kirby being able to go on the Warp Star, I have my doubts because in that case, why didn't he just go on it when the four went to Another Dimension to stop Magolor? Also, you're still considered as being on Nutty Noon (which is on Popstar) when you fight Grand Doomer, and are on the same kind of building you're on when you first go on the Warp Star to reach said boss. Plus, regardless, it would also mean that Kirby is incapable of reaching Another Dimension on his own

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Both of these example rifts open up in the exact same way as in Return to Dream Land, displaying a level of consistency, especially in the former's case given the presence of the same starry sky.

You still haven't told me why this matters and why this supports your idea of "these are not mere portals, either, as when opened up from within Another Dimension, we see the space of Kirby's dimension visible on the other side of the rift".

The reason I bring up the fact that these sections are accepted as universes is because Another Dimension is because the fact that Another Dimension contains these within it. The fact that Eficiente has described Another Dimension as a multiverse neither helps nor hurts either of our arguments, as it's all a matter of what kind of multiverse.

This doesn't disprove what I wrote. The "kind" of multiverse it's accepted as is a tier 2-C one. This isn't a "universes within a universe" situation, where the universes within are insignificant compared to a single higher-dimensional universe. The dimensions are portrayed as their own universes, and the name of the multiverse is "Another Dimension". This is what's accepted.

I wanna address this too, it'd be one thing if they're portals, but they're evidently rifts. They open up through small dimensional tears that expand into ones you can enter into, which lead directly into the dimension itself rather than some portal-esque subspace between the location you left from and the location you're going to, unlike in the likes of Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot (which are evidently portals).

I mean them in the same way. Technically portals and rifts aren't the same, since portals are an entry hole while rifts are a crack in something, but the concepts are similar in this context, being a place in space that connects two separate locations and that can be traveled through. Now with that clarified; how is this significant to supporting the idea of Another Dimension being 5D? This is just how rifts work. They're a tear in space, which in this fictional work can form by themselves, or by a character with the ability to cause them. Character who don't have the ability to create rifts relying on those two methods means nothing in relation to Another Dimension's state of existence. It just means that some characters have limitations.

As for Kirby being able to go on the Warp Star, I have my doubts because in that case, why didn't he just go on it when the four went to Another Dimension to stop Magolor? Also, you're still considered as being on Nutty Noon (which is on Popstar) when you fight Grand Doomer, and are on the same kind of building you're on when you first go on the Warp Star to reach said boss. Plus, regardless, it would also mean that Kirby is incapable of reaching Another Dimension on his own

Kirby usually doesn't use his Warp Star to teleport. If Kirby always did this, then many stories would have nothing in-between the beginning and the final battle, because Kirby could just use a Warp Star to teleport past anything that blocks his way from his final destination. During Kirby: Triple Deluxe, Kirby could've created a Warp Star and easily caught up with Taranza, following him to Queen Sectionia without worrying about making the Dream Stalk grow, skipping the need to collect Sun Stones and fight enemies except the final one. During Kirby: Planet Robobot, Kirby could've created a Warp Star and teleported inside the Access Ark, completely skipping the need to destroy its five legs to get it closer to the ground. I like the explanation that Kirby doesn't know his way around places he's never been to before, but even if that's not the case, him teleporting via a Warp Star happens way too rarely for it not happening to be used a counter-argument. Besides, in the scenario you mentioned, Magolor already opened a portal and Landia offered to ride Kirby and his friends, so Kirby didn't have a need to use a Warp Star anyway.

Another Dimension has many places in it that look similar to Kirby's home world. This is especially the case during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, where the locations look mostly the exact same aside from the background, which is made clear upon purifying the visuals by defeating the enemy at the end. The background using the otherworldly outer space is very recognizably used for Another Dimension during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and the Nutty Noon final enemy was of a species home to Another Dimension, so it's quite a stretch to regard the location as not Another Dimension. Kirby got back to Nutty Noon off-screen so we can presume that he found a portal back to his home world like all the other times. During Heroes in Another Dimension from Kirby Star Allies, the characters are established to be in Another Dimension, and they find a portal off-screen after defeating the final enemy of a dimension, so this idea is consistent.

 

[Darkz]

Except it's not accepted and is literally headcanon. I've explained this already many posts ago.

It is literally said in the cosmology blog.
"Size of its dimensions"
"They're universes."

Isn't it a bit odd how right after discussing the size of the dimensions, the blog lists the known dimensions below? Like, perhaps it's referring to them. Nowhere in the blog does it specify that only those are universal in size, you can read it yourself. The only reason why only the doomer dimensions are included in the 2-C scaling whilst other dimensions aren't, is because we aren't shown that those dimensions were affected by Magolor's wall; if they were, the scaling would go higher. Heck, even Eficiente thought Kirby's current AP of 16 Universes wasn't large enough, and that Magolor's feat likely extended farther than it was shown on screen, but there was insufficient material to confirm this.

Why would the "They're universes" only include the doomer dimensions in KRTDL? What about Halcandra? What about Dimensions I, II, III, IV, Final Dimension and the dimensions it leads to? What about the upcoming dimensions in the remaster? Also, if we're this caught up in the cosmology blog that he made, wouldn't it be the best if we asked him what it actually means?

Honestly, those bubbles in Level 8 are most likely the doomer dimensions (seeing how those share the same appearance to the main levels, aka cookie country, raisin ruins, etc, and how the planetoids in the bubbles resemble those worlds of Popstar and Halcandra). Also, Halcandra is listed as a dimension. It also looks planet-like similar to the bubbles in Level 8. Yes, sure, this whole part is speculation/headcanon, but thought I'd point this out. Visual cues were always important in Kirby.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

It is literally said in the cosmology blog.
"Size of its dimensions"
"They're universes."

Isn't it a bit odd how right after discussing the size of the dimensions, the blog lists the known dimensions below? Like, perhaps it's referring to them. Nowhere in the blog does it specify that only those are universal in size, you can read it yourself. The only reason why only the doomer dimensions are included in the 2-C scaling whilst other dimensions aren't, is because we aren't shown that those dimensions were affected by Magolor's wall; if they were, the scaling would go higher. Heck, even Eficiente thought Kirby's current AP of 16 Universes wasn't large enough, and that Magolor's feat likely extended farther than it was shown on screen, but there was insufficient material to confirm this.

Why would the "They're universes" only include the doomer dimensions in KRTDL? What about Halcandra? What about Dimensions I, II, III, IV, Final Dimension and the dimensions it leads to? What about the upcoming dimensions in the remaster? Also, if we're this caught up in the cosmology blog that he made, wouldn't it be the best if we asked him what it actually means?

Honestly, those bubbles in Level 8 are most likely the doomer dimensions (seeing how those share the same appearance to the main levels, aka cookie country, raisin ruins, etc, and how the planetoids in the bubbles resemble those worlds of Popstar and Halcandra). Also, Halcandra is listed as a dimension. It also looks planet-like similar to the bubbles in Level 8. Yes, sure, this whole part is speculation/headcanon, but thought I'd point this out. Visual cues were always important in Kirby.

I already read the blog post. I'm tired of repeating myself for every individual person who doesn't understand. I'm currently finding a different solution.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You still haven't told me why this matters and why this supports your idea of "these are not mere portals, either, as when opened up from within Another Dimension, we see the space of Kirby's dimension visible on the other side of the rift".

I believe it's important because it shows that Another Dimension is unable to be accessed normally. It cannot even be accessed normally from Kirby's dimension or any other dimension that in themselves are 4-D.

This doesn't disprove what I wrote. The "kind" of multiverse it's accepted as is a tier 2-C one. This isn't a "universes within a universe" situation, where the universes within are insignificant compared to a single higher-dimensional universe. The dimensions are portrayed as their own universes, and the name of the multiverse is "Another Dimension". This is what's accepted.

I know it's currently a 2-C multiverse, that's what we're trying to change. That's what CRTs are for. And this is in fact a "universe within a universe" situation, as Another Dimension contains these dimensions that are accepted as universes as a small part of itself.

I mean them in the same way. Technically portals and rifts aren't the same, since portals are an entry hole while rifts are a crack in something, but the concepts are similar in this context, being a place in space that connects two separate locations and that can be traveled through. Now with that clarified; how is this significant to supporting the idea of Another Dimension being 5D? This is just how rifts work. They're a tear in space, which in this fictional work can form by themselves, or by a character with the ability to cause them. Character who don't have the ability to create rifts relying on those two methods means nothing in relation to Another Dimension's state of existence. It just means that some characters have limitations.

Again, it's relevant because it means Another Dimension cannot be naturally accessed from 4-D spaces such as Kirby's universe

Kirby usually doesn't use his Warp Star to teleport. If Kirby always did this, then many stories would have nothing in-between the beginning and the final battle, because Kirby could just use a Warp Star to teleport past anything that blocks his way from his final destination. During Kirby: Triple Deluxe, Kirby could've created a Warp Star and easily caught up with Taranza, following him to Queen Sectionia without worrying about making the Dream Stalk grow, skipping the need to collect Sun Stones and fight enemies except the final one. During Kirby: Planet Robobot, Kirby could've created a Warp Star and teleported inside the Access Ark, completely skipping the need to destroy its five legs to get it closer to the ground. I like the explanation that Kirby doesn't know his way around places he's never been to before, but even if that's not the case, him teleporting via a Warp Star happens way too rarely for it not happening to be used a counter-argument. Besides, in the scenario you mentioned, Magolor already opened a portal and Landia offered to ride Kirby and his friends, so Kirby didn't have a need to use a Warp Star anyway.

I'm not even suggesting the Warp Star can teleport, just that Kirby seems unable to access Another Dimension on his own.

Another Dimension has many places in it that look similar to Kirby's home world. This is especially the case during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, where the locations look mostly the exact same aside from the background, which is made clear upon purifying the visuals by defeating the enemy at the end. The background using the otherworldly outer space is very recognizably used for Another Dimension during Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and the Nutty Noon final enemy was of a species home to Another Dimension, so it's quite a stretch to regard the location as not Another Dimension. Kirby got back to Nutty Noon off-screen so we can presume that he found a portal back to his home world like all the other times. During Heroes in Another Dimension from Kirby Star Allies, the characters are established to be in Another Dimension, and they find a portal off-screen after defeating the final enemy of a dimension, so this idea is consistent.

I mean that's fair enough, it's just that throughout the entire fight, it's considered as still being Nutty Noon and Grand Doomer is considered Nutty Noon's boss. The background is pretty much the same though, so I can see this.

The whole thing is just weird ngl...

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I plan to make my own blog post compiling the most notable and updated arguments I have made against Another Dimension being 5D, so no one can make the lame incorrect excuse that I'm ignoring information.

I believe it's important because it shows that Another Dimension is unable to be accessed normally. It cannot even be accessed normally from Kirby's dimension or any other dimension that in themselves are 4-D.

A character creating a dimensional rift to Another Dimension is them being able to access it normally. Characters who can't dimensional travel alone don't count, because that's a limitation about the characters.

I know it's currently a 2-C multiverse, that's what we're trying to change. That's what CRTs are for. And this is in fact a "universe within a universe" situation, as Another Dimension contains these dimensions that are accepted as universes as a small part of itself.

This isn't a "universe within a universe" situation because that's not how tier 2-C works. What's accepted is that Another Dimension is a multiverse, not a giant universe with mini universes inside of it. Its name is misleading. You're going against the blog post yet claiming that the revision is based on accepted information. If you were correct, then this revision would've been done a long time ago, with Eficiente in agreement.

Again, it's relevant because it means Another Dimension cannot be naturally accessed from 4-D spaces such as Kirby's universe

My answer would be similar to the first paragraph of this message so see that for an answer.

I'm not even suggesting the Warp Star can teleport, just that Kirby seems unable to access Another Dimension on his own.

The Warp Star is already acknowledged to be capable of teleportation and Kirby can't do so on his own. However, when he does have a Warp Star, he usually doesn't use its teleportation ability anyway. This has nothing to do with Another Dimension's state of existence; it has to do with Kirby not using an ability.

I mean that's fair enough, it's just that throughout the entire fight, it's considered as still being Nutty Noon and Grand Doomer is considered Nutty Noon's boss. The background is pretty much the same though, so I can see this.

The whole thing is just weird ngl...

It's the final battle of Nutty Noon because that's where the entrance is and that's the theme of the stage even when Kirby travels to Another Dimension. The same applies to the Another Dimension sections found using Super Abilities. The game counts the Energy Spheres as being found in the stage that isn't associated with Another Dimension aside from there being a dimensional rift leading to it.

 

[Chianli]

Man am just waiting for rtdlDX, this is just going back and fourth

 

[CloverDragon03]

A character creating a dimensional rift to Another Dimension is them being able to access it normally. Characters who can't dimensional travel alone don't count, because that's a limitation about the characters.

No it isn't. If your only way of accessing a dimension is by opening a rift in it, that's far from normal

This isn't a "universe within a universe" situation because that's not how tier 2-C works. What's accepted is that Another Dimension is a multiverse, not a giant universe with mini universes inside of it. Its name is misleading. You're going against the blog post yet claiming that the revision is based on accepted information. If you were correct, then this revision would've been done a long time ago, with Eficiente in agreement.

With all due respect, this argument is bad. Please stop making it.

The whole idea is that I'm suggesting it's Low 1-C, not 2-C, so please stop focusing on the fact that it's 2-C right now. That is quite literally irrelevant, as I am arguing against its 2-C status. The dimensions within Another Dimension are universes. That is accepted in the blog. Another Dimension contains such dimensions within itself. That is accepted. It's getting very tiring having to repeat this over and over again.

The Warp Star is already acknowledged to be capable of teleportation and Kirby can't do so on his own. However, when he does have a Warp Star, he usually doesn't use its teleportation ability anyway. This has nothing to do with Another Dimension's state of existence; it has to do with Kirby not using an ability.

Well actually, none of this really matters to be honest. This ability is mentioned on the Warp Star's profile as Dimensional Travel, so... there's that

It's the final battle of Nutty Noon because that's where the entrance is and that's the theme of the stage even when Kirby travels to Another Dimension. The same applies to the Another Dimension sections found using Super Abilities. The game counts the Energy Spheres as being found in the stage that isn't associated with Another Dimension aside from there being a dimensional rift leading to it.

Fair enough

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

No it isn't. If your only way of accessing a dimension is by opening a rift in it, that's far from normal

It's normal for characters who can create dimensional rifts. Kirby doesn't have dimensional travel alone so it doesn't matter what methods he uses to get to Another Dimension. He would need to be capable of easily traveling anywhere in an infinite multiverse by himself for this to be evidence of Another Dimension being 5D. Otherwise, the case is that a character lacks an ability. It's not normal for Kirby, but it's normal for Magolor.

With all due respect, this argument is bad. Please stop making it.

The whole idea is that I'm suggesting it's Low 1-C, not 2-C, so please stop focusing on the fact that it's 2-C right now. That is quite literally irrelevant. The dimensions within Another Dimension are universes. That is accepted in the blog. Another Dimension contains such dimensions within itself. That is accepted. It's getting very tiring having to repeat this over and over again.

I keep making the argument because no one disproved it. Another Dimension is described as a tier 2-C multiverse on Eficiente's blog post, which is based on Eficiente's explanation for why Another Dimension is tier 2-C, which is why the official pages have tier 2-C. Nothing about Eficiente's blog post describes Another Dimension as having universes within a universe in a way that makes it tier Low 1-C. The blog post describes it as being a multiverse, as in being a collection of universes, which makes it tier 2-C, because that's how multiverses work. This is just what a multiverse is. It's getting very tiring having to repeat this over and over again. I shouldn't even need to be writing it to begin with. If something is a multiverse, that doesn't make it 5D just because it has universes within it. That doesn't make sense.

Well actually, none of this really matters to be honest. This ability is mentioned on the Warp Star's profile as Dimensional Travel, so... there's that

I suppose this also falls under what we're discussing in the first paragraph.

Fair enough

Lovely.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's normal for characters who can create dimensional rifts. Kirby doesn't have dimensional travel alone so it doesn't matter what methods he uses to get to Another Dimension. He would need to be capable of easily traveling anywhere in an infinite multiverse by himself for this to be evidence of Another Dimension being 5D. Otherwise, the case is that a character lacks an ability. It's not normal for Kirby, but it's normal for Magolor.

I will mainly correct you on one thing: it doesn't have to be an infinite multiverse, just anywhere in a 4-D structure.

I keep making the argument because no one disproved it. Another Dimension is described as a tier 2-C multiverse on Eficiente's blog post, which is based on Eficiente's explanation for why Another Dimension is tier 2-C, which is why the official pages have tier 2-C. Nothing about Eficiente's blog post describes Another Dimension as having universes within a universe in a way that makes it tier Low 1-C. The blog post describes it as being a multiverse, as in being a collection of universes, which makes it tier 2-C, because that's how multiverses work. This is just what a multiverse is. It's getting very tiring having to repeat this over and over again. I shouldn't even need to be writing it to begin with. If something is a multiverse, that doesn't make it 5D just because it has universes within it. That doesn't make sense.

I'm using information from Eficiente's blog to supplement arguments I myself am making, that doesn't mean I accept the conclusion of Eficiente's blog (2-C Another Dimension) as the truth. Arguing exclusively based on the idea of "this is accepted, therefore it's correct" is an argument from tradition fallacy. I'm only using stuff that is accepted because I myself also agree with it.

The model for Another Dimension, based on what we know, looks like this amazing drawing right here.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I will mainly correct you on one thing: it doesn't have to be an infinite multiverse, just anywhere in a 4-D structure.

If a character who can travel anywhere in any 4D structure can't access a world, that just means it's an infinite 4D distance away. Meanwhile, if a character can't dimensional travel to begin with, like Kirby without a Warp Star, then there is no comparison that should be made, since there's nothing to compare. Kirby can travel from his home world to Another Dimension via a Warp Star, the Lor Starcutter, Magolor and Star Dream have the ability to open dimensional rifts, by extension the ancients could travel there, Galacta Knight can rip space to reveal Another Dimension, and dimensional rifts can open by themselves, so it really isn't portrayed as inaccessible if a character has any sort of method of dimensional travel. Even if none of that were the case, you're doing the circular reasoning fallacy anyway. Another Dimension isn't inaccessible because it's 5D, it's inaccessible because the characters don't have dimensional travel. You need to actually prove that Another Dimension is 5D for this idea to work, not have this be the proof.

I'm using information from Eficiente's blog to supplement arguments I myself am making, that doesn't mean I accept the conclusion of Eficiente's blog (2-C Another Dimension) as the truth. Arguing exclusively based on the idea of "this is accepted, therefore it's correct" is an argument from tradition fallacy. I'm only using stuff that is accepted because I myself also agree with it.

The information you claim is on Eficiente's blog is not actually there though. It's a misinterpretation of his words, which is evident by how tier Low 1-C isn't already in place as a result of Eficiente's words. If you were correct, it would be obvious that Another Dimension is tier 1-C.

The model for Another Dimension, based on what we know, looks like this amazing drawing right here.

That drawing doesn't clarify the scale of the entities. It's not official, so I'm dubious about how true the comparison between the entities are anyway.

 

[CloverDragon03]

If a character who can travel anywhere in any 4D structure can't access a world, that just means it's an infinite 4D distance away.

You assert this as the truth but don't substantiate this claim at all

Meanwhile, if a character can't dimensional travel to begin with, like Kirby without a Warp Star, then there is no comparison that should be made, since there's nothing to compare. Kirby can travel from his home world to Another Dimension via a Warp Star, the Lor Starcutter, Magolor and Star Dream have the ability to open dimensional rifts, by extension the ancients could travel there, Galacta Knight can rip space to reveal Another Dimension, and dimensional rifts can open by themselves, so it really isn't portrayed as inaccessible if a character has any sort of method of dimensional travel. Even if none of that were the case, you're doing the circular reasoning fallacy anyway. Another Dimension isn't inaccessible because it's 5D, it's inaccessible because the characters don't have dimensional travel. You need to actually prove that Another Dimension is 5D for this idea to work, not have this be the proof.

This whole "inaccessible" thing is meant to supplement the 5-D argument rather than be the 5-D argument anyway

The information you claim is on Eficiente's blog is not actually there though. It's a misinterpretation of his words, which is evident by how tier Low 1-C isn't already in place as a result of Eficiente's words. If you were correct, it would be obvious that Another Dimension is tier 1-C.

I don't know why you keep saying this when you are just objectively wrong. If the blog clearly states that the dimensions in Another Dimension are universes, that's all there is to it. I'm literally making use of what's in the blog here. I'm not sure why this hasn't qualified for Low 1-C given that it seems pretty blatant to me, but this is what it is.

How does one misinterpret "the dimensions in Another Dimension are universes" exactly? You're kinda stonewalling me on this point, and it's getting really tiring

That drawing doesn't clarify the scale of the entities. It's not official, so I'm dubious about how true the comparison between the entities are anyway.

The entities are universes, as explained in the blog, whether you choose to see that or not. It's not official, no, but it's an accurate representation on what the dimensions in Another Dimension are based on what has been established

 

[Eseseso]

I support Low 1-C Kirby for Pepto's and Clover's reasons, but maybe the RTDL deluxe game will help clarify some of the issues with Another Dimension?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

You assert this as the truth but don't substantiate this claim at all

I'm writing it as true because it is. If you think it's not true then you need to check out how the Tiering System works.

This whole "inaccessible" thing is meant to supplement the 5-D argument rather than be the 5-D argument anyway

When it doesn't supplement the 5D argument, because of what I wrote in the quote.

I don't know why you keep saying this when you are just objectively wrong. If the blog clearly states that the dimensions in Another Dimension are universes, that's all there is to it. I'm literally making use of what's in the blog here. I'm not sure why this hasn't qualified for Low 1-C given that it seems pretty blatant to me, but this is what it is.

How does one misinterpret "the dimensions in Another Dimension are universes" exactly? You're kinda stonewalling me on this point, and it's getting really tiring

This means your argument can alternatively be described as "Another Dimension is a multiverse, therefore it's tier Low 1-C", which doesn't make any sense. There needs to be actual evidence that the multiverse is tier Low 1-C, or else it's only tier 2-C, since that's the minimum for being a multiverse on the VS Battles Wiki, which is why it is currently tier 2-C.

The entities are universes, as explained in the blog, whether you choose to see that or not. It's not official, no, but it's an accurate representation on what the dimensions in Another Dimension are based on what has been established

Whether it's accurate or not, it still doesn't tell me what scale the image is on. About its accuracy; it's only accurate to the perception of whoever agrees with it. We've never seen an official cosmology map of Another Dimension, so that drawing is based on what someone imagines, which may or may not conflict with what is accepted. There's not much of a point in showing the drawing.

 

[Eficiente]

I have a hard time keeping up with this due to lack of time, I see the discussions but not always the point as to why they're arguing what they're arguing. Also, let's make sure to not grab too hard into things that are likely to be inconsequential as if they were fact.

As for Kirby being able to go on the Warp Star, I have my doubts because in that case, why didn't he just go on it when the four went to Another Dimension to stop Magolor? Also, you're still considered as being on Nutty Noon (which is on Popstar) when you fight Grand Doomer, and are on the same kind of building you're on when you first go on the Warp Star to reach said boss. Plus, regardless, it would also mean that Kirby is incapable of reaching Another Dimension on his own

Kirby being able to go to Another Dimension via a Warp Star for example got no explanation and it's one of those things one could fail to see when playing, if that's not to say that it didn't happen. With clear evidence that sets AD as outside his universe, it follows that his Warp Star has Dimensional Travel. In the remake he can now use it to travel to another world (sekai, so a dimension/reality) where Mag made a theme park, putting since before in the minds of players that he can do that. Who knows if this park is even in Another Dimension, they're likely not going to tell us.

You really can't expect Kirby to make 3 Warp Stars for himsef, DDD & Bandana Dee so the 8 could fly in AD to defeat Mag, it's an argument that relies on the main characters using his powers smarter, and remembering he has powers he didn't use in a long time. It made perfect sense to team up with the dragon that was just the enemy before and have a team of 4 go, "it's more cool", and only 4 players can play the game too, nothing at all can be taken from that in terms of abilities.

The lore has it that the Energy Spheres were all in Popstar first, then opened dimensional rifts, Doomers came & took the Energy Spheres, and went back to AD in alt. versions of the same places. It fits the Grand Doomer doing the same due to being a Doomer too, minus the fact that he's in the present of Another Dimension, rather than the past (Dimensional Travel that Warp Stars may have, they can't time travel). We don't know when the Grand Doomer took the last part of the Lor, but in context he likely did so at the last second, hence it was shown just floating there. It being "on the same kind of building you're on when you first go on the Warp Star to reach said boss" is not a point at all as every area of AD in the game is an alt. version of the area you were before going into the dimensional rift, you have an image in Imgur of me saying that. + one resent trailer sets the area of the fight to be Another Dimension, though still the main evidence is that it looks the same & is where Doomers live whereas the evidence against it ican be explained away pretty easily as misinterpreted things. Yes Kirby can't reach AD by floating, it's an ability (Dimensional Travel) his Warp Star has.