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Kirby characters upgrades
- Thread starter Fastsword88
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- kirby (universe)
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- #42
@Unchlechairman : We won't scale Kirby's speed to Magolor, but to Lor Starcutter and Marx, who both established MFTL+ feats. FTL is too low for Kirby characters by this point.
Here's the planet in Pop Star's stratosphere that the creators talked about.
5-A is B.Waddle Dee level by this point, and Kirby's least impressive feat. 4-A via defeating the Seventopia creator and a stronger being is something most people found as legit, so it should be fine for Kirby and MK to be upgraded to that.
Here's the planet in Pop Star's stratosphere that the creators talked about.
5-A is B.Waddle Dee level by this point, and Kirby's least impressive feat. 4-A via defeating the Seventopia creator and a stronger being is something most people found as legit, so it should be fine for Kirby and MK to be upgraded to that.
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No, we have no idea how powerful these versions of Master and Crazy Hand were. They were merely shout-outs to Smash Bros and it is not remotely implied they hold a similar level of power.
I am also still incredibly dubious of the Claycia thing, as those don't look like real stars, but the stereotypical ones you give to children. Yes, Kirby is a kid's series, but that doesn't change the fact that they in no way resemble actual stars.
I am also still incredibly dubious of the Claycia thing, as those don't look like real stars, but the stereotypical ones you give to children. Yes, Kirby is a kid's series, but that doesn't change the fact that they in no way resemble actual stars.
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- #46
@The Everlasting : Nintendo might have done silly stuff before in physics, but they acknowledge what true stars actually are. Read here (You'll have to understand french, but hey, Google Traduction is a thing). In that link HAL laboratory also explains that the 100s of solar gems you collect through the game were actually suns that were transformed into gems to stop light from reaching Floralia (by the main villain of course... spoilers, it's Sectonia). That's another 4-A feat.
Either way, via mass-energy, creating around 7 planets is star level (in the high end hundreds of tenatons range). Even excluding the stars in the background, the other 100s of planetary systems should still be in the hundreds of KiloFoe range. Already very high stellar level, add the creation of stars, and it's still in that same tier.
@ Eseseco : Dark Mind have already been discussed before. He's not 3-A, no need to touch his profile for now.
Either way, via mass-energy, creating around 7 planets is star level (in the high end hundreds of tenatons range). Even excluding the stars in the background, the other 100s of planetary systems should still be in the hundreds of KiloFoe range. Already very high stellar level, add the creation of stars, and it's still in that same tier.
@ Eseseco : Dark Mind have already been discussed before. He's not 3-A, no need to touch his profile for now.
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- #50
You mean his profile ? Nah, that's actually his home universe, not a pocket dimension.
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Fastsword if Magolor in base form survived the destruction of Another Dimension, would Kirby have Universal striking power w/Ultra Sword?
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@Davy0 : I believe that stuff have already been discussed and proven to you several times in the past in a separate thread by a handful of people, it's finished business (The expression "Pocket Dimension" never existed in a Kirby game anyways). This right here thread is about another matter, so no need to derail from the subject please.
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So, can this be accepted?
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@TheMightyRegulator : You mean Kirby's new feats ? Well, most folks here seem to accept them.
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- #61
@Antvasima : I see. So more admins have to check it out then ?
@ Eseseco : I know, but please, don't bring up 3-A Dark Mind anymore. This thread is only for the feats I mentionned above.
@ Eseseco : I know, but please, don't bring up 3-A Dark Mind anymore. This thread is only for the feats I mentionned above.
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- #63
I see, but I don't know how can this thread get their attention. By the way, I just made this calculation. It's related to the Claycia feat, of course.
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Scaling Kirby to Claycia brings up the question of how to scale characters in series that don't have a clear and linear scale of power. Kirby plots work on the Monster of the Week trope, and no matter how high the current monster's showings are, Kirby always defeats them in a similar fashion. As a result, you could have him flipping from defeating Galactic and Universal level villains to struggling with Planetary level characters (ala Sonic the Hedgehog) with no explanation for the disparity. Thus, we are left with several options on how to scale Kirby and co:
1. Scale them to the most frequent showings in their series (Planet/Large Planet, in this case). This seems to be what we are currently doing with other series like American comics and Sonic the Hedgehog.
2. Scale them to the highest showing that they can be scaled to (the Universal Magolor, in this case). This avoids having to constantly reevaluate what the "most common showings" are whenever a new game or two comes out, but as this is not the current standard we apply to other series (or we would have Universal Super forms in Sonic), we would have to give a good explanation for the differences in standards or face accusations of bias.
3. Rate them by their own feats only. This circumvents all scaling issues, perhaps making them much easier to evaluate, but, again, this is different from the standards we apply to other series, and so we would probably have to give a good explanation for that.
1. Scale them to the most frequent showings in their series (Planet/Large Planet, in this case). This seems to be what we are currently doing with other series like American comics and Sonic the Hedgehog.
2. Scale them to the highest showing that they can be scaled to (the Universal Magolor, in this case). This avoids having to constantly reevaluate what the "most common showings" are whenever a new game or two comes out, but as this is not the current standard we apply to other series (or we would have Universal Super forms in Sonic), we would have to give a good explanation for the differences in standards or face accusations of bias.
3. Rate them by their own feats only. This circumvents all scaling issues, perhaps making them much easier to evaluate, but, again, this is different from the standards we apply to other series, and so we would probably have to give a good explanation for that.
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^For #3, if we did that, Goku wouldn't even be ftl, as he's scaled to Beerus. As a matter of fact, Kirby demonstrated better speed feats.
Personally, I feel number 2 would work out well for Kirby, as he only demonstrated star+ feats since Magolor (Hypernova and Soul of Sectonia and defeating Claycia/Dark Crafter). 1 works fine too, but it makes Kirby weaker, which makes me sad lol.
Personally, I feel number 2 would work out well for Kirby, as he only demonstrated star+ feats since Magolor (Hypernova and Soul of Sectonia and defeating Claycia/Dark Crafter). 1 works fine too, but it makes Kirby weaker, which makes me sad lol.
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Speaking of Hypernova, that may have to be revised, as since we put Hypernova Kirby at Large Star level, our standards regarding feats featuring black holes have been revised, and Hypernova Kirby may no longer fit our standards of what constitutes a legitimate black hole.
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...crud. Um... word of god? ...i-is that a good enough excuse?
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Technically it only generates suction comparable to a black hole, but a old comment (Which I can't pull up) says that the Japanese version of whatever describes Hypernova does not mention black holes.Unclechairman said:
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Probably not. For a black hole, Hypernova Kirby looks awfully silly (on top of just looking silly in general).
Also, black holes do not operate on suction. Gravity is not a form of suction, but a curvature of space-time. However, most fictional series treat gravity, and consequentally, black holes, as akin to a sucking force for purposes of simplicity.
Also, black holes do not operate on suction. Gravity is not a form of suction, but a curvature of space-time. However, most fictional series treat gravity, and consequentally, black holes, as akin to a sucking force for purposes of simplicity.
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The thing is, the word hypernova itself has a lot to do with spacial explosions greater than stars and wikipedia mentions black holes for hypernovas. And it is still in the english version. It doesn't contradict the original. Which is why Buu is 4-A, as Kai doesn't contradict with the manga. Speaking of which, if Kirby winds up getting a DOWNGRADE instead of an upgrade while Buu gets an upgrade, I'm not gonna be a happy camper. I won't show it like an angry Youtube commenter, but I'll be a little miffed lol.The Everlasting said:
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I did said comment yes. The japenese version only mention that it can sucks up many enemies, no mention of black holes or anything.The Everlasting said:
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We can't upgrade him based on a name tho. If we did he would be universal because the japenese version of Hypernova calls it Big Bang. And I would like to mention that this is not only english only, but pretty baseless and statement only.The real cal howard said:
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Actually, the Japanese version mentions a big bang in the original Japanese description.
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=33343
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=33343
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Not that I'd argue for Universal Kirby, that's just insane.
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Again, that's just a name. We can't bump every character who has Big Bang in one of their attack's name to Universal.
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Fair point, but Cell's was a statement. And I'm pretty sure Alf Loyola... Erazor Djinn's was too. But they got a crazy buff, Cell after some Toriyama interview or databook or something.SaikouTouhou said:
Also, for another point, Hypernova is supposed to be stronger than base. If Hyper Sonic can become star or solar from an upgrade, why can't Kirby?
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And Sephiroth's supernova is a name of an attack. He's now Solar System.
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Because IIRC there was a stateted amount for the boost of Sonic, with Kirby, it's just "he is stronger now".
Sephiroth was actually caclced at that level with his attack.
About Cell, it was based on the fact that Buu's 4-A was now canon, and Cell blowing up the Solar System wouldn't be that much of an outlier, since it fills the gap between Large Planet/Star and Multi Solar System nicely.
Sephiroth was actually caclced at that level with his attack.
About Cell, it was based on the fact that Buu's 4-A was now canon, and Cell blowing up the Solar System wouldn't be that much of an outlier, since it fills the gap between Large Planet/Star and Multi Solar System nicely.
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But large planet and star isn't as crazy of a gap. I mean, 4B to 4A is a much bigger gap. And to the Sonic thing, got this from the wiki.
Since Hyper Sonic is generally an upgraded version of Super Sonic, it can be assumed that all of Hyper Sonic's physical abilities surpass that of Super Sonic, meaning he possesses greater strength and speed.
It's purely assumption.
BTW, this debate is probably going to go in your favor, as this is my first time. Mainly, I'm just trying to get you on my side before you find something to end my debate lol.
Since Hyper Sonic is generally an upgraded version of Super Sonic, it can be assumed that all of Hyper Sonic's physical abilities surpass that of Super Sonic, meaning he possesses greater strength and speed.
It's purely assumption.
BTW, this debate is probably going to go in your favor, as this is my first time. Mainly, I'm just trying to get you on my side before you find something to end my debate lol.
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To back up Solar System level Cell here, the guidebooks that talk about the power of his Kamehameha do it from a third-person perspective (i.e., not "He said his Kamehameha could destroy the solar system", but "His Kamehameha had enough power to destroy the solar system"). And Alf-Layla-Wa-Layla had possession of the World Rings, which hold the entire Arabian Nights universe together, and was a massive-scale reality warper.
Furthermore, that's an entirely different scenario. When I said Hypernova Kirby should be reevaluated, I did so based not on the fact that it was merely a statement, but the fact that it probably doesn't fit our standards for what constitutes a real black hole, which are hammered down in that article I linked you to. The fact that it is based entirely on an expostion statement and apparently is only compared to a black hole in localized versions is merely another nail in the coffin.
Furthermore, that's an entirely different scenario. When I said Hypernova Kirby should be reevaluated, I did so based not on the fact that it was merely a statement, but the fact that it probably doesn't fit our standards for what constitutes a real black hole, which are hammered down in that article I linked you to. The fact that it is based entirely on an expostion statement and apparently is only compared to a black hole in localized versions is merely another nail in the coffin.
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