Kirby and the Forgotten CRT

[Eficiente]

Back when I discovered how Another Dimension was a multiverse and how imcomplete was the information we had available for the verse next to all the existing sources it had, I decided to push some organizacion into it, but that failed horribly. I even asked MeteorZ if he was willing to make himself a Patreon to buy and post those Jap. guides & books from tiny contributions from Kirby fans, but he didn't seem interested. So I guess only 1 or more of those will ultimately be bought by the Smash Bracket, Death Battle or other vs debaters for research, taking some of their time and money despite how Kirby fans may enjoy it the most.

So that sucks. As I will clearly never achieve anything by ignoring the verse I may as well change the approach and do CRTs again. Besides evidence that can prove the 2-C feat in Return to Dream Land was already found and I don't see anyone that has what it takes to do something about it.

This thread will go over Powers & Abilities and changes to other things listed, then it will follow another thread about changes in tiers, how we have keys, and + 1 ability more I'm omitting here. For practicality's sake, I'll apply everything accepted after both threads are done.

-----

Villains

• ✔[[Enhanced Senses]] for DDD via noticing Kirby in Popstar watching him while himself on space as shown in Kirby's Dream Course's removed Japanese intro. Needless to say this is toon force.
• ✔To DDD's Explosion Manip; he can create bombs and shoot missiles.
• ✔[[Social Influencing]] for Marx due to making the sun and moon fight somehow, and Hyness due to being a cult leader with an "intoxicating charisma".
• ✔[[Density Manipulation]] for Hyness for how he hardened the Mage-Sisters' bodies.
• ✔Possibly [[Incorporeality]] for Drawcia Soul as that much is stated in a Nintendo Power magazine,
• ✔"Sectonia’s clan leeches off, transfers hosts with, and comes to control all living things". So Taranza should too have Absorption, Possession, Fusionism, and up to type 1 Immor., but it will be noted that Sectonia dismissing her true, Taranza-like form was portrayed as kinda inhuman and so it's unlikely that Taranza may do the same. If we don't know if he has been leeching off life from other beings in his own life, he's a parasite after all.
• ✔Intergalactic range for Star Dream's super advanced technology as its defeat returned to normal the planets conquered by the Haltmann Works Company, which had been previously moving around various galaxies before finding Popstar, with a general business matter of mechanizing planets and moving on to keep on mechanizing other planets.
• ✔Jamba Heart: [[Telepathy]], [[Dimensional Travel]] and [[Creation]], as after they "possess" a target they can carry their thoughts (w/o stealing real thoughts) into Another Dimension to create an evil, more powerful version of the target. As proven in the images for Parallel MK and DDD in its gallery.
• ✔Waddle Dee: Food, explosive food and bombs in their OE, and Shapeshifting due to turning into Dedede and Meta Knight to combat Kirby & co.
• ✔Possibly Enhanced Senses for MK as he grabbed something thrown at him without looking, but he could have practiced that

Characters in general

• [[Resistance]] to [[Radiation Manipulation|cosmic radiation]] to every Star Ally and those who have been in space.
• Everyone who lived from Amazing Mirror to Triple Deluxe should have this age; "Around or over 1000 years old", while linking that blog, +[[Longevity]].
• ✔Friend Hearts are said in profiles to have a multi-galactic potency scaling to Dark Mind's feat, which seems legit at first except, what he did was corrupt the Dimensional Mirror so that it could only copy the bad things on others, when it otherwise copies others in general to reflect on that a Mirror World version of the being. Meaning
  • ✔Dark Mind loses his Mind Manip and Morality Manip, and his Reality Warping should be changed to limited Power Null.
  • ✔Every user of a Friend Heart loses the potency they got for it.
• ✔Every top-tier whose "able to keep up with Void Termina" is, while doing so, also maneuvering the Star Allies Sparkler, a vehicle above another one with the best speed feat in the verse. This should be added in the speed of the profiles too.
• ✔[[Purification]] for every Star Ally due to their Friend Hearts, they already had this before it was a power but now idk what type they would have.
• [[Acrobatics]] for every Star Ally, even those who don't make a useless flip when jumping as they can all make use of the Friend Train and Circle. Also Hyness.
• "[[Small Size]] (Comparable to Kirby, whose 20 cm tall. Added to his/her flexibility, he/she can dodge certain attacks by crouching if judged convenient)" mostly aimed at characters who can turn thier face or body smaller when crouching, crouching to dodge attacks is a common "Kirby thing" but idk if, say, DDD can do the same.
• ✔[[Elasticity]] for those who can do that, Star Allies already have it via getting crushed flat thingy, and they are also characters who sort of collide into something and miss half of the depth in their bodies due to moving away in the impact.
• ✔[[Dimensional Storage]] for Star Allies via collecting the Hear Spears on themselves somehow.
• ✔[[4th Wall Awareness]] for every Star Ally: When going into a door using the Friend Star the one in the last place always salutes the audience.
• ✔See here; Limited [[Spatial Manipulation]] for Kirby, DDD, MK and Bandana Dee.
• ✔"Resistance to [[Fire Manipulation]] and [[Ice Manipulation]] (Can survive harmed being hit by a Master Crown-controlled Magolor's own versions of Kirby's Super Abilities, when Kirby [[Media:Kirby's Monster Flame-K'sRtDL.gif|could quickly burn a car-sized creature into black goo that was reduced to]] nothing [[Media:Kirby's Snow Bowl-K'sRtDL.gif|and freeze & shatter a miniature active volcano]] with them" for Kirby, DDD, MK and Bandana Dee.
• ✔Resistance to [[Fire Manipulation]] and [[Ice Manipulation]] for the Star Allies (Can survive harmed fire attacks from King Dedede and Kirby and ice attacks from the latter, elements with which they can harm Pyribbit, who baths in molten lava, moistens his throat drinking lava, and fills his stomach eating lava rocks)
• ✔Resistance to [[Transmutation]] "(Any Star Ally can be cooked inside Chef Kawasaki or Cook Kirby's pot together with enemies as they're turned into food, safely coming out briefly dizzy)" replaving their resistance to transmutation
• ✔Resistance to "Limited Life-energy Absorption(By Guarding, can prevent characters in their Ghost forms from removing some of his health to revive themselves)" to Kirby, Bandana Dee, Gooey, Magolor, Meta Knight and Dedede (Post-Star Allies)
  • Maybe Kirby could do this since Triple Deluxe, I got no evidence of it
• ✔Resistance to "Telekinesis (Should genuinely be able to break free from Magolor's Grab by struggling, as fellow fighters do so against all of each others' grabs)" to Kirby, Bandana Dee, Gooey, Magolor, Meta Knight and Dedede (Post-Star Allies)

From my sandbox, the following changes:

• "[[Underwater Breathing]] ([ Type 2]<ref>Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards Strategy Guide. Otherwise it's always portrayed that he can spend large amounts of time underwater, without a time limit.</ref>)" Only for Kirby, and simply the power and a claim for everyone else with it.
• ✔"Extrasensory Perception (Can sense presences of others, the individuals' shape, location, their invisible aura of power, around how powerful they are, and know a simple depiction of their power's morality, like it being ominous)" for Kirby, Bandana Dee, Gooey, and Magolor, + ", Hundreds of kilometers via [[Extrasensory Perception]] ([[wikipedia:Low Earth orbit|Around 2000 kilometers]]; Sensed King Dedede and Meta Knight's presences with an ominous power somewhat different than what they had before from outside the Buddy Fighters Tower, which surpassed orbit and had the latter 2 on top of it)" in their Range with it.

Kirby alone

• ✔To Kirby's Elasticity: "Can stretch his body to enlarge it a bit"
• ✔"[[Acrobatics]] ([ Can easily mobilize around in ground & air while doing pirouettes, spinnig at numerous angles and having their body contracted. While in the air, they can will their body to quickly descend, to bounce into greater heights, or move at an opposite side, regardless of their prior momentum]. Doesn't lose perception while performing multiple abrupt maneuvers in vehicles with omnidirectional control or in adventures where they're used as a ball)"
• ✔To his [[Vehicular Mastery]]; "([ Skilled while navigating & fighting with] [[Warp Star]]s, [[w:c:kirby:Kirby Air Ride#Air Ride Machines|multiple similar machines]] and land vehicles)"
• ✔"[[Weapon Mastery]] ([ Skilled with long, medium and low range weapons, and many other creative and arbitrary ones])"
• ✔[[Stealth Mastery]] ([ Could hide in the clouds while climbing] [[w:c:kirby:Revenge of Meta Knight/Transcript#Chapter 6|around the outside of the Halberd to later reappear underneath the ship]], potentially having done so to mobilize undetected. [ Portrayed as being able to use sneak attacks].
• ✔Flight & Spaceflight being changed to "Can hover to navigate in the air and in space, can swim in space. Can use vehicles to fly better in those areas"
• ✔Limited [[Subjective Reality]]: (Some mini version of what it says in his NA&T)
• ✔To his Transmutation: "Can turn ability items in his body into Helpers, [ and Helpers back into ability items via Normal Beam]. [ Can cartoonishly turn a fake gun into many things], [ a Warp Star into a ship] [ & a sword into other many things]. [ Can turn energies such as star power or Sparkling Stars into their Starship and back]"
• ✔To his [[Deconstruction]]: "[ Everything that enters his stomach is digested]"
• ✔"[[Energy Manipulation]] & [[Energy Projection|Projection]] ([ Can manipulate energies such as Sparkling Stars & star power], [ can shoot tiny stars as short-range projectiles])"
  • ✔[[Magic]]
• ✔"[[Absorption]], [[BFR]], [[Pocket Reality Manipulation]] & [[Power Mimicry]] (Can swallow foes and/or objects alike, trapping them in their stomach, a bottomless [ pocket reality that digests everything that enters in it], allowing Kirby to copy their powers as Copy Abilities. [ Can also gain Copy Abilities from targets upon contact]. [ Can absorb energies into his body])" replacing his [[Absorption]], [[BFR]], [[Pocket Reality Manipulation]] & [[Power Mimicry]]
• ✔"Self-[[Cloth Manipulation]] & [[Transformation]] (Using Copy Abilities makes him to have a slight transformation, usually having different hats with each one and occasionally transforming him whole body. Can use Copy Abilities without requiring to swallow enemies. Can instantly wear different clothes fitting to the activities he's doing)" replacing his Transformation and [[Cloth Manipulation]].
• ✔To his [[Dimensional Storage]]: "Can store many things in his stomach for later use [ or inhale things without swallowing them]"
• ✔To his [[Creation]]: "([ Can create sets of blocks], [ a Warp Star by himself, and similar vehicles with help])
• ✔", [ has an innocent, pure heart]"

Others

✔"Absorption (Learned through Ability Scrolls [Pre-Return to Dream Land key onwards] how to have some of his Copy Abilities [Tornado & Wheel] enfused with the elemental terrains where they're using their attacks, gaining Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation or Electricity Manipulation in grounds with some fiery, icy or electric properties. It's unclear if this comes from Kirby's own powers in base, the powers copied from foes, or new abilities Kirby can manifest when using Copy Abilities that the original owners of those powers didn't have), Size Manipulation (Learned through Ability Scrolls [Pre-Return to Dream Land key onwards] how to enlarge his hammer with that Copy Ability. Can enlarge his Ultra Sword at will, [ and more so if he wants to], despite the source from which he copied it not seeming to have that power. May thus be able to enlarge weapons by his own power). Formerly Summoning (In Amazing Mirror, Kirby could call other 3 Kirbys with their phone for help. This likely doesn't apply after that game)"

"[[Resistance]]s

• ✔" to [[Poison Manipulation]] (Later shown being able to eat poison and poisonous foes, gaining a Copy Ability from them, which is presumably something natural for Kirby. Scales to [[Team Kirby]])"
• ✔", [[Transmutation]] ([ Constantly able to quickly recover from being spat as a mini star by King Dedede]'s [ Star Spit, same technique Kirby uses to permanently do the same on targets]. As of ''Squeak Squad'' Kirby's only harmed by Bubble Head's attacks, which turn enemies into bubble items when he's possessed by Kirby [[Media:Bubble-Kirby Squeak Squad Instruction Booklet page16.png|and give the latter that power through his Copy Ability]])"
• ✔", [[Ice Manipulation]] & [[Radiation Manipulation|cosmic radiations]] (Can survive in space, . [ Can quickly break free from being instantly frozen in space])"
• ✔"[[Mind Manipulation|Mind]], [[Morality Manipulation|Morality]] & [[Madness Manipulation]] (Unaffected in places where [[Dark Matter]] has their mind-controlling dark clouds, having entered inside large accumulations dark clouds many times)" replacing his Resistance to [[Morality Manipulation|Morality]] & [[Madness Manipulation]]
• ✔", Heat (Unaffected by the temperatures of Hotbeat, a flaming planet. Can survive the lava of said place)"
• ✔Remove the resistance to magic and EE.

[Pre-Star Allies]

• ✔Multiple Selves Type 2 via Heroic Heart+"Heroic Heart (勇者の心): A star-shaped thing that once came out of Kirby's body to help them, despite the latter being divided into 10 and with 9 of them having been erased, the Heroic Heart was the same when the other Kirbys were revived. The Heroic Heart is sentient and is presumably spiritual in nature (Unlike the name may imply, it's not Kirby's literal heart, it came out of their body and its name can be interpreted as it being a spirit; 勇者 = Hero/the Brave, 心 = Heart/Spirit/Mind. It's also not Kirby's literal soul as killing one of the divided 10 Kirbys turns any of them into a soul version of Kirby). The Heroic Heart can wrap Kirbys in energy to throw them like projectiles." in his NA&T
• ✔[[Size Manipulation]] ([gallery_in_Imgur_here Can reduce the size of things bigger than his body about to be inhaled, and return them to normal if spat])
• ✔"[[Attack Reflection]] & [[Homing Attack]] ([ Can hit projectiles to send them homing back at the aggressors])" replacing his [[Attack Reflection]]

Post-Star Allies

• ✔"good at making targets drop what they carry with his attacks (Has items to improve his ability to do so, implying the skill to be natural)"
• ✔"[ Once had an item being heavenly delivered from above to him & an ally] (Given the extraordinary nature of the event, it can likely reoccur under unclear or similar circumstances)"

This replacing everything in Ghost Kirby:

✔"Loses an interpretable amount of powers from base, and a Copy Ability if he was using one, has [[Incorporeality]] (Is a soul), [[Non-Physical Interaction]] (Can affect ghosts), [[Immortality]] (Types 6 & 7. When possessing a target/s, the damage taken is received by the latter. Has no health and can't be destroyed or defeated by others who can affect ghosts, unlike them), [[Self-Sustenance]] (Types 2 & 3), [[Flight]], [[Possession]] ([[w:c:kirby:Ghost#Moveset|Can possess a target or]]
[ a group of combined beings, such as] [[w:c:kirby:Uja|dozens of smart insects]], as well as [[w:c:kirby:Laser Ball|presumable]] [[Wheelie|robots]] [[w:c:kirby:Tedhaun|and other ghosts]]), Can destroy possessed targets and beings in contact with them, Limited [[Life Manipulation|Life-energy]] [[Absorption]] (Triggers the aforementioned regeneration of his physical body, going back to his base state and still being transformed if he was using a Copy Ability when dying), [[Invisibility]] and [[Intangibility]] (Can actively become invisible and intangible, even to other Kirbys), [[Resistance]] to [[Death Manipulation]] and [[Life Manipulation]] (Only a soul. Given his lack of health, he can't be hit by other characters in Ghost form for them to revive, unlike living fighters and bosses. Can't recover health via healing items)"

Copy Abilities

• ✔"[[Statistics Amplification]] (At least some give them knowledge & experience over what the abilities are related to. Certain ones let him fly better. Speed augmentation via Jet & Wheel. [[Invulnerability]] via Stone, Metal, [ Hi-Jump], etc.)"
• ✔To his Ice and Fire Manipulation: "[ Can harm Pyribbit with it, who baths in molten lava, moistens his throat drinking lava, and fills his stomach eating lava rocks)"
• ✔[ Plasma] to Homing Attack
• ✔"[[Water Walking]] (Ninja [[ Can stand, walk] and attack above water], Wheel)"
• ✔Remove EE from Ghost

(Post-Star Allies)

• ✔To [[Subjective Reality]]: "(Artist; Allows him to paint things into reality like [ keys] or [ Maxim Tomatoes items])"

Optional Items (Post Star Allies)

• ✔"Limited automatic mobility (Deflector Boost Orb and Auto-Guard, the latter let's Kirby Guard automatically every so often), [[Berserk Mode]] (Berserk Boost Orb), [[Statistics Amplification]] (Cheer Pom-Poms, many Story Items), [[Curse Manipulation]], [[Power Nullification]] & [[Soul Manipulation]] (Cursed Anti-Ghost Ring; [[Media:Cursed Anti-Ghost Ring-Kirby Fighters 2.png|Stops enemies, Kirby and an ally from becoming ghosts]], which they otherwise do after getting knocked out/dying to keep fighting and try to revive themselves), [[Resistance]] to [[Explosion Manipulation]] (Anti-Explosion Charm), [[Sound Manipulation]] (Anti-Mike Charm)" The Story Items are already in Kirby's OE, we just didn't add the powers they give. Also Bandana Dee, Gooey and Magolor get the same.

 

[Chianli]

following this.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Looks good enough

 

[Chariot190]

I even asked MeteorZ if he was willing to make himself a Patreon to buy and post those Jap. guides & books from tiny contributions from Kirby fans, but he didn't seem interested.

What books in particular?

 

[Eficiente]

For vs debates, I have an old blog linking a list of those guides in the Kirby Jap. wiki, and me listing from which games matter the most in order and for what potential reasons. Each game can have more than 1 guides, but I assume their last one or longest one should be better. Having a guide from Kirby's Return to Dream Land/Kirby Wii is definitely the priority.

To Meteor I proposed that with no priority, as you quoted that. Chronological order would have been more fair in general.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

The friend heart downgrade is a real bummer, but I always found the 3-B potency pretty questionable myself. Everything else seems uncontroversial enough. The only debatable thing is the dimensional storage since there's a fine line between game mechanics, toon force, and dimensional storage. That being said, it's so minor that I can take it or leave it without it making much of a difference.

Since we're adding new descriptions to powers and abilities, I would add the following to "Attack Reflection & Homing Attack":
"Can hit back a world threatening meteor thousands of light years in seconds without damaging it in the process."

 

[Chariot190]

For vs debates, I have an old blog linking a list of those guides in the Kirby Jap. wiki, and me listing from which games matter the most in order and for what potential reasons. Each game can have more than 1 guides, but I assume their last one or longest one should be better. Having a guide from Kirby's Return to Dream Land/Kirby Wii is definitely the priority.

To Meteor I proposed that with no priority, as you quoted that. Chronological order would have been more fair in general.

I'll look into it, but obviously no promises.

 

[Eficiente]

Well, if a staff or 2 evaluate this I can move to what comes next.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

What about my suggestion?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

"Extrasensory Perception (Can sense presences of others, the individuals' shape, location, their invisible aura of power, around how powerful they are, and know a simple depiction of their power's morality, like it being ominous)" for Kirby, Bandana Dee, Gooey, and Magolor, + ", Hundreds of kilometers via [[Extrasensory Perception]] ([ A little more than 100 kilometers]; Sensed King Dedede and Meta Knight's presences with an ominous power somewhat different than what they had before from outside the Buddy Fighters Tower, which surpassed orbit and had the latter 2 on top of it)"

I'm a bit confused about what makes orbit 100 kilometers here. Even with what you linked, wikipedia lists a Low Earth Orbit as just "below 2000 kilometers".

Friend Hearts

Hm. I had thought the potency was scaled to the Dark Hearts converting much of the universe, but I suppose this makes sense.

Remove EE from Ghost

Any reason why?

Remove the resistance to magic and EE.

Again, any reason why?

Agree with the rest.

 

[Eficiente]

I'm a bit confused about what makes orbit 100 kilometers here. Even with what you linked, wikipedia lists a Low Earth Orbit as just "below 2000 kilometers".

I must have written it wrong, I put 100 kilometers and yet Hundreds of kilometers, I'll change the former.

Any reason why?

The Kirby wiki called one of his moves "Erase", but that was a fanname. Kirby just destroys the target he's possessing in a way that has no evidence to be EE.

Again, any reason why?

Idk from where the resistance to magic comes but I assume it's just "he's fought many foes that use magic before", which he did, but he never took their magic in a lesser way than how he would if he was someone else. The EE comes from some wave destroying things being called by us EE based on looks, and it does look just like one would imagine something that erases/deconstructs things would look like but has no evidence to be real EE (that we know of).

Thanks for helping out.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I see. That's okay with me then.

 

[Eficiente]

From the incoming thread I'm making

• Likely Dimensional Travel for the Sphere Doomer and Grand Doomer scaling from Greater Doomer

 

[Lou_change]

(In Amazing Mirror, Kirby could call other 3 Kirbys with their phone for help. This likely doesn't apply after that game)

I think I understand the logic here which is they never used that phone again but the clones still exist and they never use it again but nothing ever outright says that everything else seems fine but that feels iffy

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Yeah, i agree with the thread

 

[Eficiente]

I think I understand the logic here which is they never used that phone again but the clones still exist and they never use it again but nothing ever outright says that everything else seems fine but that feels iffy

Well, thinking it twice, the portal door the "clones" use to reunite are game mechanics as they really just naturally ran to assemble, using the same doors and means as our Kirby. Meaning that they should really be able to do the same in the main universe. So screw it, it should be on the powers he still has but I'm writing on the NA&T how he never used it after that game.

 

[Eficiente]

I would add the following to "Attack Reflection & Homing Attack":
"Can hit back a world threatening meteor thousands of light years in seconds without damaging it in the process."

Something like that, yes.

 

[Eficiente]

Here it is, I had to make it a staff thread tho.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

3-B and 2-C, let's gooo!
Is there also gonna be a speed upgrade for outrunning dimensional walls that can cross entire universes? (Obviously, the distance between those universes can't really be accounted for at the moment, but still)

 

[Eficiente]

No as we don't know how fast they moved and when would those universes be destroyed. As we have in profiles, the dimensional walls do at least scale to Landia and the Lor Starcutter as the latter 2 could barely escape them, and they in turn have MFTL+ feats. People often miss that showing for the cast's running speed, flight speed and reactions, it's not like the dimensional walls were slower when they just started.