Kingdom Hearts Speed CRT

[Nehz_XZX]

While the details are mostly unknown regarding the place they ended up on, from the details we do know it requires less assumptions to consider it as outer space than something else.
And yes, I meant to link to the 10th Report.

Okay.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, after some talk off-site, another thing was found...

In Birth by Sleep, Aqua, Terra and Ventus travel across the Lanes Between using their Keyblade Glider.

Now, how is this relevant?

Yen Sid organizes the Guardians of Light to gather the next day at the Keyblade Graveyard for the final battle, and it appears that they didn't all just hop on board of the Gummi Ship, meaning that Aqua and Ventus must have used their Keyblade Glider for this, which is what they've used for travel across the Lanes Between (aka, space) in Birth by Sleep, and they must have fought Gummi Heartless across their way like how Sora and others had to, now what does this leads to?

Simple, Keyblade Gliders should be somewhat comparable to the Gummi Ship in speed given that they can get to the Keyblade Graveyard as well within a single day, and can fight in a manner that would scale to their reactions, and so we now have a series of consistent MFTL+ feats to use, such as Sora not being speed blitzed by Lingering Will using it and so on.

Overall, MFTL+ now seems pretty consistent given its portrayal and amount of feats.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Scaling to the Keyblade Gliders sounds fine to me.

 

[Bobsican]

So in summary we now have the following MFTL+ feats:

• Sora's Keyblade beam reaching multiple stars in seconds, and being able to react to the same kind of beam from others
• Roxas going from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard in seconds, and Xemnas being able to react to him
• Aqua, Terra and Ventus having interplanetary travel with their Keyblade Gliders, which they can use to fight others, even as they go across them, which should be comparable speed-wise to the Gummi Ship given that they (Aqua and Ventus, Terra was missing at the time out of being trapped in Terranort) managed to get to the Keyblade Graveyard in time within a day just like the rest.

Considering their portrayal, and how such feats are heavly emphatized in the setting, I think MFTL+ is the best rating to give the cast.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

There is also Vanitas flying past Ventus in the Lanes Between and luring him to the Keyblade Graveyard that way in Birth by Sleep.

 

[Bobsican]

There is also Vanitas flying past Ventus in the Lanes Between and luring him to the Keyblade Graveyard that way in Birth by Sleep.

I don't remember that one, can you show it?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I don't remember that one, can you show it?

Here.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, that definitely works.

So.. what does everyone else think over the speed to give to everyone? The issue was that the current MFTL+ feats as outlined in the OP were questionable at best for scaling purposes, and there's more than enought replacements for them now.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[SamanPatou]

I heard that piloting MFTL vehicles wouldn't give you reactions in the same ballpark, but way lower, always depending on the speed of said vehicle. Someone should ask a calc member about this.

Sora shooting and reacting to interstellar beams should be fine. Can I see it? I only know about him shooting to the moon in Halloween Town.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, here's the thing, they fight with their Keyblade Gliders even in the middle of traveling, and it's not in a Star Wars-like case with them just aiming MFTL+ ranged attacks at each other, but rather straight up physically fighting, Vanitas was also able to catch up to Ventus without crashing on him, showing that he was able to react to others while in this speed and it's not exclusively travel speed, I'd suggest pinging @DarkDragonMedeus if anything given that he's knowledgeable on this kind of stuff from what I recall.

Here's Sora doing the interstellar beam, now, Xehanort reacts to the same kind of beam from Sora's part, and Sora, Donald and Goofy fired their beam about as Xehanort fired his own, meaning that they must have had the reactions to do so or else the beam would have blitzed either.

 

[Antvasima]

The first post seems to make sense to me.

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Bobsican]

So in summary we now have the following MFTL+ feats:

• Sora's Keyblade beam reaching multiple stars in seconds, and being able to react to the same kind of beam from others
• Roxas going from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard in seconds, and Xemnas being able to react to him
• Aqua, Terra and Ventus having interplanetary travel with their Keyblade Gliders, which they can use to fight others, even as they go across them, which should be comparable speed-wise to the Gummi Ship given that they (Aqua and Ventus, Terra was missing at the time out of being trapped in Terranort) managed to get to the Keyblade Graveyard in time within a day just like the rest.

Considering their portrayal, and how such feats are heavly emphatized in the setting, I think MFTL+ is the best rating to give the cast.

There is also Vanitas flying past Ventus in the Lanes Between and luring him to the Keyblade Graveyard that way in Birth by Sleep.

Here.

Oh, that definitely works.

So.. what does everyone else think over the speed to give to everyone? The issue was that the current MFTL+ feats as outlined in the OP were questionable at best for scaling purposes, and there's more than enought replacements for them now.

This is a rough summary of the conclusions so far, the rest was mostly just gathering feats.

All that's left as said before is staff input to see if such conclusions are good and all to apply.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it seems fine to me aat least, but calculations for the feats would be preferable.

 

[Bobsican]

I may be quite late, but it's better than never, here's a blog with three relevant calcs.

That was already done for the most part.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Since a calc group members evaluated it, it can probably be applied.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, so this can be applied accordingly then? Just to confirm and to avoid there being misunderstandings.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

There hasn't been much of a discussion about the MFTL+ feats yet as far as I can tell, so I would feel uneasy about applying them right now even if I do not necessarily disagree. Does anyone else share these misgivings?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that we can wait with applying the results until you have discussed that then.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, some more staff input would be nice I suppose.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

If MFTL+ gets accepted, does that mean that the calculation with the highest result which would be Sora firing a beam that reaches multiple stars would be used for the speed rating? That would put everyone at 221,033,963,945.47 times FTL which is quite a bit more than the Gummi Ship speed calculation or the Roxas calculation which is already quite a bit faster. What would you say if someone were to try to argue for that being an outlier?

 

[Bobsican]

If MFTL+ gets accepted, does that mean that the calculation with the highest result which would be Sora firing a beam that reaches multiple stars would be used for the speed rating? That would put everyone at 221,033,963,945.47 times FTL which is quite a bit more than the Gummi Ship speed calculation or the Roxas calculation which is already quite a bit faster. What would you say if someone were to try argue for that being an outlier?

Well, I've seen in other verses such as Pokémon just taking the other feats as supporting feats, such other feats also weren't portrayed as something that can't casually be done for the most part, and so it doesn't appear to be outlierish.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, I've seen in other verses such as Pokémon just taking the other feats as supporting feats, such other feats also weren't portrayed as something that can't casually be done for the most part, and so it doesn't appear to be outlierish.

Okay. How does the scaling work then? Does straight up everyone scale to the Keyblade beam from KHIII?

 

[Bobsican]

Okay. How does the scaling work then? Does straight up everyone scale to the Keyblade beam from KHIII?

Well, we do know that they can react to each other and all (The Guardians of Light even synchronized with each other against the Replica Xehanorts and all), so this is the most consistent outcome given that whenever they lose it's due to an AP stomp if anything, not out of a speed blitz.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, we do know that they can react to each other and all (The Guardians of Light even synchronized with each other against the Replica Xehanorts and all), so this is the most consistent outcome given that whenever they lose it's due to an AP stomp if anything, not out of a speed blitz.

Are you sure? Some characters do specialize in speed like Ventus and there have been instances of characters visually disappearing and reappearing.

 

[Bobsican]

Are you sure? Some characters do specialize in speed like Ventus and there have been instances of characters visually disappearing and reappearing.

Well, while some scaling can be up to say that some are just a bit faster than others and all, it still doesn't reach a gap so high they should scale to a lower feat for the most part.

However, the Keyblade beam stuff only would really apply to Sora and those comparable or above him on second thought, this comes out of everyone else not really displaying a capability of reacting to such kind of beam (Riku gets blitzed by Zexion's replication, for example), although such move would definitely scale given its consistent portrayal.

So for those that are below KHIII Sora:
"Massively FTL+ (Comparable to others that can travel across the worlds with a Keyblade Glider, which has been shown to also relate to direct physical movements and is comparable to the Gummi Ship based on Aqua and Ventus getting to the Keyblade Graveyard within a day just like it, Vanitas reacted to Ventus as he traveled, comparable to Roxas, who went from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard in seconds), higher with Keyblade beam (Has been displayed to outspeed others comparable at this level)"

KHIII Sora and those comparable and above (Yozora, Xehanort, Master of Masters, the Foretellers):

"Massively FTL+ (Comparable/Superior to Sora, who reacted to a Keyblade beam from Xehanort of a similar nature as this one)"

Protagonist is a sort of weird case given that he seems to be above most of the main cast (he could actually put up a fight against the Foretellers and one even commented that they would have to get serious to beat him), but got blitzed by the Keyblade beam of Ephemer, so I think it's best to just dismiss this case as him being caught off-guard, which makes sense given that he was busy threatening Skuld, and thus letting him scale above KHIII Sora or so.

 

[Abstractions]

Sora's Keyblade beam reaching multiple stars in seconds, and being able to react to the same kind of beam from others

Kind of disagree with this one because the feat is a chain reaction, not just the initial beam fired off. (Which would probably yield FTL results anyway but not that high)

There is also Vanitas flying past Ventus in the Lanes Between and luring him to the Keyblade Graveyard that way in Birth by Sleep.

This one and the Stitch one are a bit iffy for me because they are travelling at comparable speed already, but you wouldn't use that to say a fighter pilot gesturing to his wingman is a Supersonic reactions feat, I could be nitpicking but that's what this strikes me as.

I think the Drill Drive calculation is fine though.

I'd also inspect this thread as it is important and just to be sure it doesn't interfere with anything here.

 

[Bobsican]

Kind of disagree with this one because the feat is a chain reaction, not just the initial beam fired off. (Which would probably yield FTL results anyway but not that high)

This one and the Stitch one are a bit iffy for me because they are travelling at comparable speed already, but you wouldn't use that to say a fighter pilot gesturing to his wingman is a Supersonic reactions feat, I could be nitpicking but that's what this strikes me as.

I think the Drill Drive calculation is fine though.

I'd also inspect this thread as it is important and just to be sure it doesn't interfere with anything here.

1: That appears to be fine if that's how such sort of feats are handled, a recalculation should be done over it in that case before we move forward, however.

2: The Vanitas feat probably is stretchy, yes, but the Deep Space stuff (Assuming that's what you mean by the Stitch stuff) should be fine given how they do physically fight them at such speeds.

3: Well, we didn't really have planned to just give them MFTL+ speeds in general based on only going at such speeds, but also reacting to them in some significant way, like how Xemnas reacts to Roxas as he drops from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This one and the Stitch one are a bit iffy for me because they are travelling at comparable speed already, but you wouldn't use that to say a fighter pilot gesturing to his wingman is a Supersonic reactions feat, I could be nitpicking but that's what this strikes me as.

I think the Drill Drive calculation is fine though.

I'd also inspect this thread as it is important and just to be sure it doesn't interfere with anything here.

The Stitch calculation calculates both the speed of Stitch's space cruiser and the minimal movements Ventus made as it went into hyperdrive. The result of the former doesn't scale to Ventus and the latter result isn't quite relevant since we have a number of calculations with higher results.

Vanitas' feat is relevant since there are instances of Vanitas flying in combat. Not sure how relevant that exactly is but there is also Vanitas Remnant launching clones of itself.

Also, thanks for linking that thread here.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Abstractions.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, so let's reword the planned justifications accordingly, if everyone is fine with them:

So for those that are below KHIII Sora:
"Massively FTL+ (Comparable to others that can travel across the worlds with a Keyblade Glider, which has been shown to also relate to direct physical movements and is comparable to the Gummi Ship based on Aqua and Ventus getting to the Keyblade Graveyard within a day just like it, comparable to Roxas, who went from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard in seconds), higher with Keyblade beam (Has been displayed to outspeed others comparable at this level)"

KHIII Sora and those comparable and above (Yozora, Xehanort, Master of Masters, the Foretellers):

"Massively FTL+ (Comparable/Superior to Sora, who reacted to a Keyblade beam from Xehanort of a similar nature as this one)"

We do need a recalculation on the Keyblade beam by only including up to when it touches the first star out of the rest being simply chain reactions.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay, so let's reword the planned justifications accordingly, if everyone is fine with them:

So for those that are below KHIII Sora:
"Massively FTL+ (Comparable to others that can travel across the worlds with a Keyblade Glider, which has been shown to also relate to direct physical movements and is comparable to the Gummi Ship based on Aqua and Ventus getting to the Keyblade Graveyard within a day just like it, comparable to Roxas, who went from Radiant Garden to the Keyblade Graveyard in seconds), higher with Keyblade beam (Has been displayed to outspeed others comparable at this level)"

KHIII Sora and those comparable and above (Yozora, Xehanort, Master of Masters, the Foretellers):

"Massively FTL+ (Comparable/Superior to Sora, who reacted to a Keyblade beam from Xehanort of a similar nature as this one)"

We do need a recalculation on the Keyblade beam by only including up to when it touches the first star out of the rest being simply chain reactions.

If I understand the calculation right, all you would need for that would be to divide the result by 12000 (the number that is used for the stars in the calculation) since that is the number with which the distance to the closest star system to Earth was multiplied with for the calculation. That should put the result between the results of Roxas' feat and the Gummi Ship calculation if I'm not wrong.

Edit: I just noticed that you would probably need to find a new timeframe which would be shorter than the current one since only the initial beam is taken into account.

Second edit: Is the current calculation even taking the initial beam into account? I think it's only calculating the speed at which all of the stars are getting connected with each other since the initial beam itself is already taking up a timeframe of 7 or 8 seconds.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Bobsican]

It seems that a recalculation is needed for one of the feats, then we can discuss what to do with it depending on the result.
I've asked @Cyberblader90 off-site over this, and it seems he's covering that part, so waiting a bit is best.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to me.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, I finally got the recalc
The result appears to be a bit lower than the Roxas feat, but it does support the consistency overall, and because of this I think everyone can just have a solid MFTL+ rating without changes on who scales to who as there's no extremely significant speed gaps to separate some from others.

 

[Cyberblader90]

roxas is straight travel speed, prob unusable per new standard. However xemnas reacts to and dodges roxas' descent

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Why are 5 light years being used for the calculation?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, I finally got the recalc
The result appears to be a bit lower than the Roxas feat, but it does support the consistency overall, and because of this I think everyone can just have a solid MFTL+ rating without changes on who scales to who as there's no extremely significant speed gaps to separate some from others.

Okay. That is probably fine, but you should finish talking with Nehz first.