Kid Goku vs Classic Sonic

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Stop comparing other threads, no one said Goku one shot kills Sonic, but one hit would break his bones leaving him unable to fight more seriously. Luffy is a rubber tank who's meant to endure blunt force trauma; he's actually way more durable than he is offensively strong as far as punches go. And Yang's also different because she has a hax ability where taking serious damage causes her to grow stronger. On top of the fact that Goku holds back against girls, those were the reasons for Goku's loses to both those fights.

Goku on the other hand has the tools to deal with characters like Sonic. Also, that "Bias" or "Voting without reading the thread" those are strong words. I've been on plenty of threads where I actually voted against some of my favorite characters, to that's not really a good argument to have. I just vote for whoever holds the stronger advantage and look at every detail.

 

[Blueblur24]

Stop comparing other threads, no one said Goku one shot kills Sonic, but one hit would break his bones leaving him unable to fight more seriously. Luffy is a rubber tank who's meant to endure blunt force trauma; he's actually way more durable than he is offensively strong as far as punches go. And Yang's also different because she has a hax ability where taking serious damage causes her to grow stronger. On top of the fact that Goku holds back against girls, those were the reasons for Goku's loses to both those fights.
Goku on the other hand has the tools to deal with characters like Sonic. Also, that "Bias" or "Voting without reading the thread" those are strong words. I've been on plenty of threads where I actually voted against some of my favorite characters, to that's not really a good argument to have. I just vote for whoever holds the stronger advantage and look at every detail.

And that's where you are wrong yes yang has an ability that allows here to take damage but she can't just go about tanking every attack or she would get beat. If that were true then people like the hulk should never lose in fights and should be able to fight characters way stronger than them.

And the luffy fight should have been inconclusive then not luffy wins.

So goku has tools to deal with transmutation, indigo asteroid, and cyan laser if so please show me. Also that's if goku can land a hit and he does bre as k Sonics arms what makes you thing sonic want to for his ring time. Also classic sonic should be even stronger then his 224 thanks to being able to one shot chaos in sonic forces. Also he has sheilds ti help absorb or take the damage for him to.

And voting against your favorite character doesn't mean that there isn't bais being shown here.

 

[Blueblur24]

O and goku losing because he is weak to girls wasn't even brought up in his fight against yang. So there goes that excuse. And if he breaks an arm because of his ap he should have beaten yang because she can heal from something's not broken limbs or fatal injuries. If what you said about him breaking sonic's arm is t wh que than y'all should've argued this point even more there.

Samething goes for luffy. He is resistant not immune to blunt force someone above him can still beat him or else he could fight people who are above his own tier. And sonic is stronger than him so ya.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You left out the part where Goku also holds back against girls, it was for that reason on top of lack the Reactive Power level. Also, it was Current Yang who fought Kid Goku, current Yang is actually a lot stronger than that 141 ton feat, just a heads up.

Luffy also has better range was another thing, but still, his resistance to blunt force trauma was still his trump card. And he had enough strength to repeatedly chip damage Goku. Also, wait, is Goku 300 and something tons, or 800 and something tons? You don't sound very consistent. I read the NF blog, but not sure which one was accepted. But if Goku's 800 tons, then some of his losses should be removed.

Goku's power pole and Nimbus cloud distance Goku away from Ring Dash, Indigo Asteroid what back fire and actually increase the power of Goku's strike with the Power Pole, and how does Cyan laser negate durability? There needs to be more specifics other than, "Because it's a laser".

Well if that's the case, people could say you're bias towards Sonic. Anyway, it's rude to call people biased so please drop that.

 

[Blueblur24]

Goku holding back against girls was never even brought up there so no that wasn't a reason for his lose.

And goku is 300 I was being generous and going with the high end feat but seeing as this goku is the same as the goku yang and luffy was fighting and weekly stated he is only a little bit above 300 I started going with the low end then.

Goku doesn't abuse his range already and stated this.power pole gets either suck in and rip apart by indigo asteroid or transmuted by ring time. O and also the ripping apart happens before the sucking in so no the power pole want be extending. I was ready the cyan laser description and it implies that it allows for sonic to destroy things that with out it he couldn't.

Base towards sonic no trust me I am not ya I like him and all but I can admit when loses a fight.

And the reason I called y'all bias is because of the reasoning y'all tried to use to counter sonic's transmutation. Just because it wasn't in one game doesn't mean he can't do it especially when said game came before he got the ability and trying to say that sonic can only transmute robots but not weapons was another reason despite me showing this in a video I posted.

3. Saying just because an ability isn't on his page so he can't use it here. Amazing how when I got this to one of the staff it got accepted just like that. Then someone brought up is a transformation so he can't use it what sense does that even make.

4. O and saying sonic can't transmute sonic because it only works on fodder despite goku having no resistance to transmutation.

Saying goku abused range despite not doing so and yes he used the nimbus cloud in battle but how effectively did he use it and not only that but he used it to fight in close combat. And stood their and let tambourine destroy it with a slow attack at that and he wasn't caught of guard look right at him when he did it.

Using game mechanics to justify why an ability doesn't work.

 

[Blueblur24]

5 the many goku fra above who I know didn't take the time out to read the thread and just voted. And I say this because it happened in anri vs whis, yang vs goku, sun vs goku, and the only reason it didn't happen in the luffy one was because it ended so quickly.

But to save time if y'all want post all your reasons for why you believe goku wins and in return I will go back and try to debunk them and post why I believe sonic wins.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sonic can't transmute weapons; saying he does because he transmuted robots and their guns is game mechanics. And actually, Kid Goku leads with Power Pole, just like he did with the Pterodactyl and against Tamborine. Goku's also likely gotten stronger since his fights with Tien and Tambourine respectively, so he could be well above the 300 tons feat. Still, that's just Cyan Beam being stronger compared to his other attacks; that's like saying Kamehameha negates durability when it doesn't.

 

[Blueblur24]

Sonic can't transmute weapons; saying he does because he transmuted robots and their guns is game mechanics. And actually, Kid Goku leads with Power Pole, just like he did with the Pterodactyl and against Tamborine. Goku's also likely gotten stronger since his fights with Tien and Tambourine respectively, so he could be well above the 300 tons feat. Still, that's just Cyan Beam being stronger compared to his other attacks; that's like saying Kamehameha negates durability when it doesn't.

Are you serious right now can't transmute weapons but transmutes a gun. I guess guns aren't weapons anymore by that logic and saying it is game mechanics is obviously not true that's how the move works or every ability mario has is just game mechanics.

Good goku leads with power pole and sonic either

A. Spin dashes or runs on it to reach goku and transmutes him

B. Uses indigo asteroid to rip it to shreds and sucks it in and if goku is holding on to it he gets rip into shreds to.

C. He transmutes it, dude your arguments against transmutation are just ridiculous you couldn't have been serious with that whole sonic can't transmute weapons despite doing just that in the video.

I will give you the cyan laser one though I can agree on that once I looked and read over it a second time.

On and in both fights against tambourine and Pterodactyl you noticed how he used it to reach his opponent not fight them from a distance so once again he doesn't abuse range.

And he could always dodge the power pole especially if goku extends it meaning it will take longer to reach him.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Power Pole is not breakable; so Indigo Asteroid ain't ripping it to shreds. Sonic can't run on it, while Goku is swinging it, he'll just get hit and badly bruised by it. Goku could homerun Sonic all the way to the Moon with the Power Pole.

It's game mechanics because assuming he can transmute any animate object he sees is absurd and Classic NLF. Going to say he can transmute the Infinite Gauntlet next? Also, might as well say Link has transmutation because enemies turn into rupees or hearts when Link kills them; Or Donkey Kong has transmutation because enemies turn into bananas when they die. Sonic also does not use his transmutation against living lifeforms in character.

Sonic's going to have a hard time dodging the Power Pole while Sonic is homing and Goku swings it back a second time. Sonic also don't know that the Power Pole grows and shrinks and will most likely not notice it the first time around.

 

[Blueblur24]

The Power Pole is not breakable; so Indigo Asteroid ain't ripping it to shreds. Sonic can't run on it, while Goku is swinging it, he'll just get hit and badly bruised by it. Goku could homerun Sonic all the way to the Moon with the Power Pole.

It's game mechanics because assuming he can transmute any animate object he sees is absurd and Classic NLF. Going to say he can transmute the Infinite Gauntlet next? Also, might as well say Link has transmutation because enemies turn into rupees or hearts when Link kills them; Or Donkey Kong has transmutation because enemies turn into bananas when they die.

Sonic's going to have a hard time dodging the Power Pole while Sonic is homing and Goku swings it back a second time. Sonic also don't know that the Power Pole grows and shrinks and will most likely not notice it the first time around.

Provide a reason as to why it isn't breakable. And yes sonic can run up it while goku is swinging it considering goku swings it pretty slowly. Homerun sonic to the moon no sonic can easily dodge that. But none is even a factor as goku doesn't abuse range. It's game mechanics despite it being explained as sonic turning his enemies into rings and then collecting them. And sonic doesn't transmute by just looking at them he actives ring time, a shield appears around sonic, anyhing that he gets close to or gets close to him gets turned into a ring. Clearly not game mechanics. The infinite gauntlet what does that have to do with anything here false equivalent man. Now you want to no why link isn't described as having transmutation for that reason because there is no where that says it is or to back up a claim saying it is. By that logic almost every character and their mom gets transmutation. Clearly that is game mechanics. Sonic will just move the second, third, and fourth time if that happens and he will notice it extending or shrinking he isn't blind.

 

[Blueblur24]

Is this is why i claimed you were being bias you are literally trying to discredit sonic transmutation with faulty agruments and game mechanics. O and provide evidence of the power pole not being breakable.

 

[Akreious]

The Power Pole is MAGIC. In the Manga, it changed its very composition so that its weight and durability so that Goku is able to wield it (As any other weapons used by Goku would be woefully inadequate and would break due to his sheer strength). So it's shown to at least be able to change its durability to fit the wielder's needs. And even if Sonic is able to break the Power Pole, its extension ability will literally just allow Goku to extend back the length that was broken but with an even deadlier "Spike" at the end.

This is completely disregarding the fact that a crap ton of supporting materials (Daizenshuu and crap; secondary sources) literally says that via magic, it's unbreakable. If we actually go by secondary canon, Movie Goku's Power Pole is strong enough to still be viable even after Saiyan Saga; way out of sonic's league here.


And Blueblur24, YOU have to prove that Transmutation works on anything but fodder or is canonically known to turn Eggman's boss machines into fodder themselves.

Anyways Goku FRA

 

[Blueblur24]

The Power Pole is MAGIC. In the Manga, it changed its very composition so that its weight and durability so that Goku is able to wield it (As any other weapons used by Goku would be woefully inadequate and would break due to his sheer strength). So it's shown to at least be able to change its durability to fit the wielder's needs. And even if Sonic is able to break the Power Pole, its extension ability will literally just allow Goku to extend back the length that was broken but with an even deadlier "Spike" at the end.

This is completely disregarding the fact that a crap ton of supporting materials (Daizenshuu and crap; secondary sources) literally says that via magic, it's unbreakable. If we actually go by secondary canon, Movie Goku's Power Pole is strong enough to still be viable even after Saiyan Saga; way out of sonic's league here.


And Blueblur24, YOU have to prove that Transmutation works on anything but fodder or is canonically known to turn Eggman's boss machines into fodder themselves.

Anyways Goku FRA

Indigo asteroid doesn't just destroy it piece by by piece, it destroys it all at once so him being able to extrnd it while it is being diminished isn't going to happen. And y'all keep saying he extends it and fights from a distance despite not doing so and tends to only fight close range. And even if it can't be broken transmutation stills screws him as it literally changes it into a ring.

Are you all seriously trying to use game mechanics once again to discredit sonic's transmutation. Let me tell you something has goku resisted transmutation NO so guess what HE STILL GETS TURNED INTO A RING. So once again i have debunked all of your arguments and all y'all can throw is sonic's " sonic's transmutation only works on fodder characters so it doesn't work here " please use a better arguement because this want get you anywhere. O and how does goku fight the indigo asteroid when even the surroundings of sonic are being ripped to part and add to his power making it grow even stronger. And it affects gravity so how does goku deal with that.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Can you please stop using the indigo asteroid that isn't on classic sonic's page, is not used here due to the brilliant fact that we use the pages here, not Hedgehog wiki

 

[Quantu]

This can be added. Literally only 1 person is arguing for Sonic, and I believe Grace Period is over.

 

[CursedGentleman]

We need to close this thread before, I don't want anyone trying to argue after the thing is already added or necroing this thread

 

[Blueblur24]

Can you please stop using the indigo asteroid that isn't on classic sonic's page, is not used here due to the brilliant fact that we use the pages here, not Hedgehog wiki

Could you please wait into dark649 adds them like he said he would give the man time. So your going to try and discredit my arguments with that after said abilities were accepted come on now. And the ability is used here as it is move he has so that argument is not at all valid. And even without it goku has no answer or way to deal with transmutation.

 

[Blueblur24]

This can be added. Literally only 1 person is arguing for Sonic, and I believe Grace Period is over.

Nope can't be added i have debunked every last one of you guy's arguments. Its gotten to the point that y'all are using game mechanics to try in justify why sonic can't use transmutation.

 

[Blueblur24]

We need to close this thread before, I don't want anyone trying to argue after the thing is already added or necroing this thread

If it's closed i will have it reopened due to the reasons already being debunked. No one has given any answer to why or how goku counters transmutation.

 

[CursedGentleman]

The transmutation needs feats tho.

Is the same reason why we need to know how abilities like existence erasure works because that would be a fallacy to say that Zeno can erase characters tier 0 simply because.

Feats would help to know if he would be able to transmute Goku or not.

And there is the reactive evolution of his that always give an up against the others.

 

[Blueblur24]

The transmutation needs feats tho.

Is the same reason why we need to know how abilities like existence erasure works because that would be a fallacy to say that Zeno can erase characters tier 0 simply because.

Feats would help to know if he would be able to transmute Goku or not.

And there is the reactive evolution of his that always give an up against the others.

Dude what you just said is a no limits fallacy look up what a tier 0 character is and to be frank zeno only has been shown to erase universes and beings weaker then him so that means he can't erase a character in the same teir as him then. And to tell you the truth if the character has shown no resistance to an attack that attack still works because it bypasses durability. And zeno could possibly erase a being above his tier if said being has no resistance to it. Same reason a star level character could beat a universe level character if they have the neccessary hax to defeat them with despite the difference in ap. Transmutation bypasses durability unless goku has shown resistance to it he gets turned into a ring.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Cue my facepalm please,

The Zeno thing is an example of NFL, of WHY we can't just state things like that JEEZ.

Exactly the same thing with the transmutation thing (BTW, in his page is not saying that it bypasses transmutation)

We need feats of better showing of said transmutation or it will be a NFL thing to say that it can transmutate Goku.

 

[Blueblur24]

Cue my facepalm please,

The Zeno thing is an example of NFL, of WHY we can't just state things like that JEEZ.

Exactly the same thing with the transmutation thing (BTW, in his page is not saying that it bypasses transmutation)

We need feats of better showing of said transmutation or it will be a NFL thing to say that it can transmutate Goku.

Are you serious what are these arguments. It is not an nfl. Read what transmutation is it bypasses durability regardless unless he has shown resistance to it he isn't tanking it and gets turned into a ring.

 

[Blueblur24]

O and goku's reactive power level, not evolution two very different things, isn't combat applicable that's his super version.

 

[DMB_1]

O and goku's reactive power level, not evolution two very different things, isn't combat applicable that's his super version.

Wrong: Sayians grow stronger ALSO during a fight, it has always been the case, and it's even written in Goku's profile.

 

[Blueblur24]

A no you are wrong it has been stated in previous battles that goku's reactive power level isn't combat applicable. Need I remind this was discussed in the yang verse goku fight. It doesn't become combat applicable into dragonball super.

 

[CursedGentleman]

How come is only combat applicable on Super if that is a Saiyan trait?

 

[Blueblur24]

How come is only combat applicable on Super if that is a Saiyan trait?

Because it is in the dragonball series he only uses it after a fight and y'all agreed on that above and in the other fights with him in it . And this version of him and super are vastly different.