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You wa shock!!
Ding da da ding da da ding ding
Kenshiro vs Vanilla Ice
Speed Equalised, may change to stats equalised if a stomp.
Fight takes place in The End from Minecraft. Fighters start on either side of the island.
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Kenshiro vs Vanilla Ice
- Thread starter Iapitus_The_Impaler
- Start date
You wa shock!!
Ding da da ding da da ding ding
Kenshiro vs Vanilla Ice
Speed Equalised, may change to stats equalised if a stomp.
Fight takes place in The End from Minecraft. Fighters start on either side of the island.
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- Thread starter
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Yes, Via Cream's VoidEficiente said:
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Eficiente said:
So Vanilla Ice then?
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Vanilla Ice: 1
Kenshiro: 0
Kenshiro: 0
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Kenshiro will use his intangibility once he realizes it's a huge problem, then he's pretty much in the clear.
Voting Ken.
Voting Ken.
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Once he realizes it's a problem? Cream would kill him in one hit if it makes contact with him at all.
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Wow...
Ice then
Ice then
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I mean both can ohko each other, Creams' void disintegrates matter on contact and dumps the remains in a dark dimension, Ken just has a huge AP advantage among other things. Ice tends to stay inside Cream and turn in a invisible sphere that eats everything in its path but problem is, Ice cant see where he's going. If Ken survives not being hit by something he can't see or sense long enough for Ice to pop out and check and land a blow on ice in that small timeframe he wins but Ice is likely, if he plays it smart, to get the first hit in with Cream so I'm either inconclusive or Ice more often then not but Ken still has a chance.
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Leaning more towards Ken on this one.
His precog should help with Ice's invisibility, what with flashes of the future showing him the effects of Cream's voids. That or he could read his aura, but for now I'm gonna assume he can't do that because of the void nature of the stand.
Muso Tensei can be unconsciously activated if the user is in danger, so if Ken gets a vison of a future where he is suddenly mutilated, he's gonna do the smart thing and use Muso Tensei to avoid getting one shotted by Cream. Muso Tensei gives him slight resistance to existence erasure, but at the cost of it bypassing his intangibility.
Ken's also got a bunch of other ways of keeping Ice away from him. Ki clones that can attack and mislead, can warp space around him to avoid getting hit, or distort space around his opponent to confuse and disorient them, can use another form of intangibility that shouldn't have the same repercussions of Muso Tensei (one of Souther's techniques), can use telekinesis to lift rubble from the surrounding area to attack and defend, or lift his opponent, and leap high into the air to avoid attacks.
Plus, worse comes to worse, he uses Soryu Tenra to create a pocket dimension that takes away both their powers so that they can duke it out.
All of this, combined with his precog and speed equalized should keep him out of Cream's void attacks and eventually gain an opportunity to land a blow on Ice.
His precog should help with Ice's invisibility, what with flashes of the future showing him the effects of Cream's voids. That or he could read his aura, but for now I'm gonna assume he can't do that because of the void nature of the stand.
Muso Tensei can be unconsciously activated if the user is in danger, so if Ken gets a vison of a future where he is suddenly mutilated, he's gonna do the smart thing and use Muso Tensei to avoid getting one shotted by Cream. Muso Tensei gives him slight resistance to existence erasure, but at the cost of it bypassing his intangibility.
Ken's also got a bunch of other ways of keeping Ice away from him. Ki clones that can attack and mislead, can warp space around him to avoid getting hit, or distort space around his opponent to confuse and disorient them, can use another form of intangibility that shouldn't have the same repercussions of Muso Tensei (one of Souther's techniques), can use telekinesis to lift rubble from the surrounding area to attack and defend, or lift his opponent, and leap high into the air to avoid attacks.
Plus, worse comes to worse, he uses Soryu Tenra to create a pocket dimension that takes away both their powers so that they can duke it out.
All of this, combined with his precog and speed equalized should keep him out of Cream's void attacks and eventually gain an opportunity to land a blow on Ice.
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Would that work though? Slight resitance doesnt mean immunity, it could very well be nowhere near enough to matter. Ki clobes wont matter, he wont v Even realize theyre there for them to mess with him and theyd be destroyed on contact. Soace distorting around Ice wont do anything to disoriente him considering the way Cream is used. Lifting rubble wont do anything, its wrecked by Cream on contact, he cant lift Cream while he's in the void, which is his state 90% of the time. Cream should logically be able to harm intangibles considering Stands can harm other stands alongside ghosts and youkai. Abd the pocket dimension would only work if he wasnt in Cream considering hes no lobger in the same dimension at that point and i dont recall Ken gaving multidimensional range. Only precog matters and distorting space around himself really, and speed equal works both ways, as itd let Ice dodge and go back in Cream as easily as itd let Ken dodge. Plus in a battle of attrution Ice may win considering his vampire nature and stamina.
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Still, resistance still gives Ken an edge. When he was struck by a Muso Tensei infused fist by Raoh, instead of the part of his body being erased from existence like it had done to others, it had just left him slightly damaged.
Ki clones do help a lot. Cream and Ice won't be able to tell between the original and the clones. He can easily create dozens of clones while poisoned, so while he's completely healthy, he should be able to create many more. All of the clones can attack on their own, meaning that Ice is gonna have to go through them, meaning he's gonna be distracted.
Space distortion plays a big roll. It can help Ken play keep away, and being caught within the distorted space mean Cream is going to lose focus on his target.
The rubble will once again, distract and slow down Cream, meaning that Ken can use that to his advantage.
The intangibility part is debatable, though I'm unsure how to go about it due to the strange nature of Stands. But considering verse equalization is in effect, unless Ice has explicitly shown to negate intangibility, Ken still has that edge.
The pocket dimension takes away all special barriers and auras of those caught within it. So even if Ice is hiding in Cream, than that means that Ken just gonna end up fighting Cream. And if Ice pops out for even a second, that means he's gonna end up fighting Ken.
While being a vampire does give Ice great stamina, Ken himself also have some great vitality feats. He's walked throughout deserts after being stabbed repeatedly, for days on end. He's carried rocks that weigh hundred of tons across a few miles. He is stated to be able to go 30 days without eating and still be able to fight at tip top form. His healing factor should also keep him in the fight long enough to figure out a way to victory. He also knows a pressure point that will take away his need to breathe.
Ki clones do help a lot. Cream and Ice won't be able to tell between the original and the clones. He can easily create dozens of clones while poisoned, so while he's completely healthy, he should be able to create many more. All of the clones can attack on their own, meaning that Ice is gonna have to go through them, meaning he's gonna be distracted.
Space distortion plays a big roll. It can help Ken play keep away, and being caught within the distorted space mean Cream is going to lose focus on his target.
The rubble will once again, distract and slow down Cream, meaning that Ken can use that to his advantage.
The intangibility part is debatable, though I'm unsure how to go about it due to the strange nature of Stands. But considering verse equalization is in effect, unless Ice has explicitly shown to negate intangibility, Ken still has that edge.
The pocket dimension takes away all special barriers and auras of those caught within it. So even if Ice is hiding in Cream, than that means that Ken just gonna end up fighting Cream. And if Ice pops out for even a second, that means he's gonna end up fighting Ken.
While being a vampire does give Ice great stamina, Ken himself also have some great vitality feats. He's walked throughout deserts after being stabbed repeatedly, for days on end. He's carried rocks that weigh hundred of tons across a few miles. He is stated to be able to go 30 days without eating and still be able to fight at tip top form. His healing factor should also keep him in the fight long enough to figure out a way to victory. He also knows a pressure point that will take away his need to breathe.
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So...
Vanilla Ice: 3
Kenshiro: 1
Vanilla Ice: 3
Kenshiro: 1
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Well Cream is all about void and ken is resistent and precog will help him dodge and predict. Plus Ken would use muso tensei if he knows something is wrong and vanila can't see where he is going plus he ain't that smart...so I think Ken will win with muso tensei and being resistent to void also he can use shoryu tenra which makes everything null and must fight bare-handed (which ken will have a huge advantage over)
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Resistant isnt immunity and Cream can harm intangibles.
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this isn't regular intangibility muso tensei is all about nothingness basically ken is a void in a sense so its a different kind of intangible iirc
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Cream also happens to be a void, and Ice while in it is in another universe/dimension.
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Still, better than having none. And like I said, an existence erasing attack only slightly damaged him, and he healed from the injury in short time span.
But where is that specifically stated? I know that in the JoJo's verse that Stands are treated as ghosts, because they can only be seen by other Stand users and can only be affected by other Stands, but this is with verse equalization.
Here, Kenshiro can see and touch Cream. Stand rules aren't in effect here, meaning that unless Cream has attached a non-Stand intangible, then he can't negate intangibility.
But where is that specifically stated? I know that in the JoJo's verse that Stands are treated as ghosts, because they can only be seen by other Stand users and can only be affected by other Stands, but this is with verse equalization.
Here, Kenshiro can see and touch Cream. Stand rules aren't in effect here, meaning that unless Cream has attached a non-Stand intangible, then he can't negate intangibility.
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How good was said existence erasure, having resists means little if its not nearly enough. Rohan has effected ghosts among other things and KQ can effect ghosts. Ghosts are shown to be intangible.
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On a side note even if he has existence erasure resists Cream would still BFR as whatever it touches gets disintegrated and dumped into it's dimension which is constantly employing its touch and destroy effect.
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Existence erasure in the Hokuto no Ken verse is pretty good. It erases the whatever it touches, from physical matter to energy at some point.
From what I remember about Dead Man's Question, Kira never fought any stands, or showed signs of having KQ. Also, didn't the ghosts completely kill KQ when he tried to attack, meaning that KQ can't harm intangible ghosts, but can be harmed by intangibles? And also, that's Rohan and Kira. What has Cream done to intangible foes?
From what I remember about Dead Man's Question, Kira never fought any stands, or showed signs of having KQ. Also, didn't the ghosts completely kill KQ when he tried to attack, meaning that KQ can't harm intangible ghosts, but can be harmed by intangibles? And also, that's Rohan and Kira. What has Cream done to intangible foes?
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Not talking about Dead Mans Questions, I'm referring to his blowing up his father plus the hands don't really count, considering KQ made no attempt to fight back, it was ripped apart before it got a chance. Also Rohan blitzing and using Heaven's Door on Reimi also why would it matter? They're both Stands why would Cream be any different in fact the reason Rohan could do that was chalked up to being a Stand User, not because his Stand is special.
And yes ghosts are intangible, Kira was shown to be intangible after death when birds flew through him.
Edit:Cream does the same, it destroys all matter on contact, except it also BFRS it to its dimension.
And yes ghosts are intangible, Kira was shown to be intangible after death when birds flew through him.
Edit:Cream does the same, it destroys all matter on contact, except it also BFRS it to its dimension.
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But in the JoJo's verse they made a big point on there being different types of Stands (Part 4 makes this a bid deal, DIO states that he and Jotaro have the same type of Stand). What evidence is there that Cream can do any of that, or that they are the same type of Stand?
And yes Kira is intangible, as a ghost. And Killer Queen did try to attack the ghosts, only to be torn apart. And Rohan is a very strange and unclear Stand user with an even stranger Stand. Not very fair to compare Heaven's Door to Cream.
And yes Kira is intangible, as a ghost. And Killer Queen did try to attack the ghosts, only to be torn apart. And Rohan is a very strange and unclear Stand user with an even stranger Stand. Not very fair to compare Heaven's Door to Cream.
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Did KQ attack them and phase through them? Did he even get an attack in? The answer is no, he was restrained and killed befire he got a chance. And it was implied any stand user could punch ghosts, ya wpuld have a point if I was say Strength or something could but Cream is a humanoid Stand just like Heaven's door, Rohan's power isn't touching ghosts, it's manga.
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Where was it implied that all Stands can punch ghosts?
There are dozens of humanoid Stands in JoJo's. And almost all of them have different abilities and properties (Wearable stands, sentient stands, elemental stands, it's also a gun stands, etc). Having similar physical appearances means nothing. Again, what makes Cream even remotely comparable to Heavens Door?
And you're acting like intangibility is Ken's only ace in the hole. He still has precog, resistance to existence erasure, duplication, special manipulation, telekinesis and an energy aura that will attack and defend for him. Ice still has to get through all of that to get to Ken.
There are dozens of humanoid Stands in JoJo's. And almost all of them have different abilities and properties (Wearable stands, sentient stands, elemental stands, it's also a gun stands, etc). Having similar physical appearances means nothing. Again, what makes Cream even remotely comparable to Heavens Door?
And you're acting like intangibility is Ken's only ace in the hole. He still has precog, resistance to existence erasure, duplication, special manipulation, telekinesis and an energy aura that will attack and defend for him. Ice still has to get through all of that to get to Ken.
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When Rohan says that stands users can interact ghosts and the like due to their inherent nature. And humanpid Stand is a type of Stand and Rohan has never once implued his power ket him touch intangibles but rather it was stated be because he was a stand user rather than a special property of his stand.
Also it's not that im acting like Ken has only one ace and that's muso, rather i think it wont matter, i think his precog is his big gun. Plus i addressed the other stuff already.
But on a semirelated note, how does Ken get past BFR?
Also it's not that im acting like Ken has only one ace and that's muso, rather i think it wont matter, i think his precog is his big gun. Plus i addressed the other stuff already.
But on a semirelated note, how does Ken get past BFR?
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I'm sorry, can you elaborate a bit more? I didn't really understand that last bit.
Precog, Spacial Manipulation and good ok super jumps. Cream still has to touch him to take him to the other dimension.
You didn't really disprove that other stuff. Clones, telekinesis, and everything else is something that will get in Creams way. And Soryu Tenra is still something that Ice has to counter.
And on the other hand, does Ice/Cream have resistance to existence erasure? Cause Muso Tensei cover Ken in an aura of energy that erases whatever it touches. It has been shown to work against other energies, and it certainly works on physical objects, whats stopping Muso Tensei from eating Cream?
Precog, Spacial Manipulation and good ok super jumps. Cream still has to touch him to take him to the other dimension.
You didn't really disprove that other stuff. Clones, telekinesis, and everything else is something that will get in Creams way. And Soryu Tenra is still something that Ice has to counter.
And on the other hand, does Ice/Cream have resistance to existence erasure? Cause Muso Tensei cover Ken in an aura of energy that erases whatever it touches. It has been shown to work against other energies, and it certainly works on physical objects, whats stopping Muso Tensei from eating Cream?
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Because what will telekinesis Do? He can't tk a void. Clones while good coukd backfire, they won't disoriente him since He wont be looking at him anyway and if he peeks out, sees at least one of them he's going right back without hesitation which won't give Ken a chance to land a hit.
I doubt Soryu would work while he's using Cream considering Ice isn't even in the same dimension, unless Ken has multidimensional range with it.
Cream itself is a void while in effect, unless muso can erase voids it won't matter a whole lot.
And if it comes down to who woukd outlast the other to get a chance in to attack, Ice is a vampire, he could go for an indefinite amount of time without tiring.
BFR, how does Ken get around BFR? Even if he resists existence erasure he'd still get thrown into his dark dimension. How does he get out?
I doubt Soryu would work while he's using Cream considering Ice isn't even in the same dimension, unless Ken has multidimensional range with it.
Cream itself is a void while in effect, unless muso can erase voids it won't matter a whole lot.
And if it comes down to who woukd outlast the other to get a chance in to attack, Ice is a vampire, he could go for an indefinite amount of time without tiring.
BFR, how does Ken get around BFR? Even if he resists existence erasure he'd still get thrown into his dark dimension. How does he get out?
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Fun fact, those dozens of clones can also use muso tensei. And how is Cream gonna keep track of the real Ken while going through the fakes? It's not like Ken is just gonna stand still and let himself be targeted. He's gonna run amongst the fray to observe his opponent.
Soryu tenra negates the abilities of whoever is caught in the AOE. So if it's not Ice, it's gonna be Cream. Meaning no void powers. Meaning that while Ice is in the void, Cream is gonna be fighting Ken, meaning all the damage from Cream is gonna be translating to Ice. And Ken's got a major AP advantage.
Well, it worked well in his fight with a Muso Tensei boosted Raoh, Muso tensei is energy made up of nothingness (aka void), so it should work here.
The sphere still has to touch Ken, which is gonna be hard due to speed equalized, precog, ability to create clones to take hits, mislead Cream, utilize Muso tensei, ability to use telekinesis to use nearby objects to act as a shield, and can utilize Soryu tenra to bring Cream to a void where it's powers are gone, leaving it to fight Ken by itself, meaning that any blow to Cream will reflect back onto Ice, killing him instantly,
Soryu tenra negates the abilities of whoever is caught in the AOE. So if it's not Ice, it's gonna be Cream. Meaning no void powers. Meaning that while Ice is in the void, Cream is gonna be fighting Ken, meaning all the damage from Cream is gonna be translating to Ice. And Ken's got a major AP advantage.
Well, it worked well in his fight with a Muso Tensei boosted Raoh, Muso tensei is energy made up of nothingness (aka void), so it should work here.
The sphere still has to touch Ken, which is gonna be hard due to speed equalized, precog, ability to create clones to take hits, mislead Cream, utilize Muso tensei, ability to use telekinesis to use nearby objects to act as a shield, and can utilize Soryu tenra to bring Cream to a void where it's powers are gone, leaving it to fight Ken by itself, meaning that any blow to Cream will reflect back onto Ice, killing him instantly,
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I'm aware but hundreds of Clones? That will likely backfire, Ice pops out, sees lots of Kens, he'll be far more careful and would likely refrain from checking untill he's safe or further away. Cream is in the void too, clones arent misleading him due to that and Soryu too as it literally eats itself and is put in outside its dimension. Also Ice has regen, reflected damage, even if it kills Cream won't kill Ice, considering he's a vampire and even Dio survived his Stand geting dusted. And the same goes for Ken, its gonna be a challenge to hit Ice when to avoid any technique requires something as simple as ducking his head down and going back inside the void and with speed equal that's gonna happen faster than most of Ken's stuff.
Edit: also using tk to use objects as a shield us useless, and they aren't shields, itd be like using oxygen as a sheild plus if they both avoid each other's attacks, Ice is gonna outlast Ken in the long run.
Edit: also using tk to use objects as a shield us useless, and they aren't shields, itd be like using oxygen as a sheild plus if they both avoid each other's attacks, Ice is gonna outlast Ken in the long run.
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Really, now that I think about, all Ken needs to win is precog and soryu tenra.
With precog he'll be able to dodge and react to all of Cream' attacks, especially with speed equalized. Since he will get flashes of the effects of Creams attack, after seeing numerous futures of him getting apple cored, he'll eventually resort to soryu tenra. Cream will get pulled into he pocket dimension, since that ball IS Cream. He is the void ball.
If Cream is pulled in, then it's just Ken and Cream fighting hand to hand. Cream has no chance of harming Ken, so it will just be Ken wailing on Cream, the damage reflecting onto Ice, who'll be blown to bits by each of Ken's blows. He'll heal, but it's not like he can do anything to Ken. Eventually Ken will destroy Cream, and since it was killed in the pocket dimension of Soryu tenra, that means that it will be erased from existence, as per the rules of the technique. Those killed in the pocket dimension are erased from existence. Meaning that Ice will be erased.
Also, Ice can't see what he is attacking while in the void. Meaning that clones are extremely helpful here. All Ice will see is a missing Kenshiro, meaning that he'll let his guard down and hop out the void, leaving him open to attack.
With precog he'll be able to dodge and react to all of Cream' attacks, especially with speed equalized. Since he will get flashes of the effects of Creams attack, after seeing numerous futures of him getting apple cored, he'll eventually resort to soryu tenra. Cream will get pulled into he pocket dimension, since that ball IS Cream. He is the void ball.
If Cream is pulled in, then it's just Ken and Cream fighting hand to hand. Cream has no chance of harming Ken, so it will just be Ken wailing on Cream, the damage reflecting onto Ice, who'll be blown to bits by each of Ken's blows. He'll heal, but it's not like he can do anything to Ken. Eventually Ken will destroy Cream, and since it was killed in the pocket dimension of Soryu tenra, that means that it will be erased from existence, as per the rules of the technique. Those killed in the pocket dimension are erased from existence. Meaning that Ice will be erased.
Also, Ice can't see what he is attacking while in the void. Meaning that clones are extremely helpful here. All Ice will see is a missing Kenshiro, meaning that he'll let his guard down and hop out the void, leaving him open to attack.
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And even if you want to argue that Cream/Ice can't be pulled into the Soryu Tenra because of his void (which doesn't make sense, cause he is the void ball, meaning that once he's in the technique, he'll lose his powers) then Ken will be pulled into the pocket dimension, meaning that Ice can't get to him. Meaning he can't be killed.
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That's not exactly true, if there is plenty of duplicates like you say he will see a Ken and he definitely won't come out for cqc, he'll go right back in and if he does come out he'll have enough time to go back in before Ken attacks considering Ken eould need to be out of sight and thus far enough away for Ice to react in time, considering speed is equal and if it comes down to just going back and forth between Ice and Jen spamming, Ice is gonna outlast Ken, considering he could go and fight for months if not years (at keast weeks to months) considering his fighting style requires him to exert no effort.
Plus saying Cream getting erased would erase ice is iffy, considering Dio had his Stand annihilated and lived.
And last but not least the void is Cream but Cream is also inside the void in a different dimension, saying itd work is highly debatable.
Plus saying Cream getting erased would erase ice is iffy, considering Dio had his Stand annihilated and lived.
And last but not least the void is Cream but Cream is also inside the void in a different dimension, saying itd work is highly debatable.
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And on a side nite, his precog only works when opponents enter his aura, technically speaking, cream nor Ice are in his aura so why would his precog work?
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But it's literally just Cream turning into a void ball and running around. He IS the void ball. Meaning that he will get pulled into Soryu Tenra, where he will lose his void powers.
And we all know that whatever happens to a Stand is reflected onto the User. Meaning that when Cream is erased, Ice is erased as well. We saw with DIO that when Za Warudo's leg was cracked and was bisected, the same thing happened to DIO's body.
Ken has no problem playing keep away. His clones can seemingly use all the powers he has. So while Ice is running around blind trying to kill Ken's clones, who can use flight and can warp space around others and around themselves to avoid attacks, Ken is gonna use that to observe his opponent. He won't fight Ice directly, meaning that he'll save his stamina enough to use Soryu Tenra to pull Cream into the pocket dimension, you know the rest.
And we all know that whatever happens to a Stand is reflected onto the User. Meaning that when Cream is erased, Ice is erased as well. We saw with DIO that when Za Warudo's leg was cracked and was bisected, the same thing happened to DIO's body.
Ken has no problem playing keep away. His clones can seemingly use all the powers he has. So while Ice is running around blind trying to kill Ken's clones, who can use flight and can warp space around others and around themselves to avoid attacks, Ken is gonna use that to observe his opponent. He won't fight Ice directly, meaning that he'll save his stamina enough to use Soryu Tenra to pull Cream into the pocket dimension, you know the rest.
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And no, Ken has two different forms of precog. He can read auras or he gets flashes of the future.
