Kenshiro vs Lucius

[Robo432343]

Kenshiro (Hokuto no Ken)

Kenshiro is the protagonist of the Hokuto no Ken franchise, the 64th successor of the Hokuto Shinken style of martial arts, and the greatest of all of them in its 1,800 years. Originally an orphan from Taiseiden, Asura, and a descendant of the Hokuto Sōke bloodline, he was sent to the mainland...

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vs

Lucius Zogratis

Lucius Zogratis is the hidden 4th and eldest sibling of the Zogratis family and the devil host of the supreme devil Astaroth, wielder of Time Magic. He is the current and main antagonist of the final act of Black Clover, acting as the final bastion for Asta and Yuno to reach the rank of Wizard...

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Battle for strongest 5-C dude

SBA
Speed Equal

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Unless Kenshiro auto Muso tensei just to SURVIVE, he will be time stopped at the beginning of the fight

Even then, it seems he just becomes "intangible" and Lucius can affect his soul which bypass a layer of resistance, stomp, but because Kenshiro is completely ****** by range and no resistance to Lucius hax at all

If Kenshiro is able to use Soryu tenra, his power null is not as good as Asta, Lucius still can use his powers, maybe it can work for being a different power null but I am not sure

 

[Robo432343]

Unless Kenshiro auto Muso tensei just to SURVIVE, he will be time stopped at the beginning of the fight

Even then, it seems he just becomes "intangible" and Lucius can affect his soul which bypass a layer of resistance, stomp, but because Kenshiro is completely ****** by range and no resistance to Lucius hax at all

If Kenshiro is able to use Soryu tenra, his power null is not as good as Asta, Lucius still can use his powers, maybe it can work for being a different power null but I am not sure

I agree with you but Lucius can't affect Ken's soul because he doesn't have a soul in the first place

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Weird that he has no soul inmunity in his page

 

[Robo432343]

so is this incon??

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

so is this incon??

Lucius can easily time hax him for one day straight if soul manipulation does not work

Or he can crush Kenshiro to the ground with class Z gravity while Kenshiro is time stopped

The only problem is if Kenshiro automatically use intangibility even when he is out of range of his opponent, Lucius would instantly time stop him the moment the fight starts and Kenshiro has precog, but he is not in range to do anything so he has no knowledge of what he has to do

 

[Robo432343]

Lucius can easily time hax him for one day straight if soul manipulation does not work

Lucius can time hax but i don't think that will be very helpful when it comes to incapping because of MT

Or he can crush Kenshiro to the ground with class Z gravity while Kenshiro is time stopped

He can't do that because of MT

The only problem is if Kenshiro automatically use intangibility even when he is out of range of his opponent, Lucius would instantly time stop him the moment the fight starts and Kenshiro has precog,

yeah i'm not sure if Kenshiro automatically MT's even when he is out of range, we'll have to wait and see

but he is not in range to do anything so he has no knowledge of what he has to do

no knowledge?
"The characters know the direction their opponent(s) start in. Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent). It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge. Negative effects of the observation, such as those caused by Madness Manipulation Type 3, are assumed to not apply for this knowledge either. Aside from this, the characters have no knowledge of each other."

Also i saw this interesting thing on Ken's profile
"Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength)"
This might take care of the range issue

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Hokuto Shinken's very nature is of one adaptability and it has infinite fighting variations in order to overcome every obstacle and opponent, no matter the difference in strength

NLF, no one in his anime is using gravity powers, time powers and etc, if it were a martial art I would buy it, but is magic, something completely different

Lucius can time hax but i don't think that will be very helpful because of MT

Why? If he gets time stopped, he can't move nor think, without thinking, MT can't be activated

He can't do that because of MT

Read above

It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s)

Yes, to identify, but Lucius then just mana zone 4 KM away time magic, intantly without moving and Kenshiro is time stopped, Kenshiro sees him being stand still and then gg

 

[Robo432343]

NLF, no one in his anime is using gravity powers, time powers and etc

gravity stuff exist in the verse

• Spatial Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation and Pocket Reality Manipulation (Hokuto Ryuken fighters can bend space around themselves to avoid being hit. With Anryu Tenha the use can trap the opponent in a non-gravitational dimension where the space is extremely distorted)
• Spatial Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation (The Matōki Aura can control the arena and is also capable of creating an instant anti-gravity effect that completely disorients its victims)

, if it were a martial art I would buy it, but is magic, something completely different

Hokuto Ryuken is both martial art and magic though

Why? If he gets time stopped, he can't move nor think, without thinking, MT can't be activated

But MT is automatic
it can be activated even without thinking
(Musō Tensei is made of the nothingness which predates life, and allows the user to achieve a state of said nothingness. It’s also stated to be able to erase the user’s body from existence. MT activates automatically to protect the user from danger, even when the user is completely unconscious
Furthermore, an attack thrown while in MT is considered to be "impossible to predict" since it comes from a "blank mind" despite the fact that things like subconscious reflex is considered to be a fodder technique

Read above

Yes, to identify, but Lucius then just mana zone 4 KM away time magic, intantly without moving and Kenshiro is time stopped, Kenshiro sees him being stand still and then gg

If range really is an issue, Kenshiro has perception blitz
Kenshiro not having to think to use MT>Lucius using thought based time hax? not sure

thats why i think its incon
no one can do anything to each other

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Then Inconclusive or Lucius just time hax which should stop him for 24 hours

I did not know MT was automatic nor the gravity staff, I am sorry

How is Hokuto Ryuken magic? Because then Lucius can power null

 

[Robo432343]

I did not know MT was automatic nor the gravity staff, I am sorry

tbh im not sure if MT is automatic or not anymore
it says on his profile that it is automatic but then someone told me MT just activates unconsciously which is just super duper fast

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Lucius' gravity should still work on Kenshiro, Lucifero managed to destroy Dorothy's world of glamor which is made up of dreams that fit the description of non-existent physiology type 1 according to the subje reality page

 

[Epsilon_R]

If it's for the strongest for every tier, then Lucius takes this due to ken not having strong resistance to soul manip. Nothing in his profile seems to imply he lacks a soul too

Ken can only hope to win is in a speed equal scenario where MT ends activates before Timestop.

Problem with that is:
1/ That mean Ken can only at best beat in when speed is equal
2/ MT automatically activating =/= MT activating instantaneously. I don't see what implies that the whole body shift to nothingness would be faster than thought based time stop

 

[Robo432343]

If it's for the strongest for every tier, then Lucius takes this due to ken not having strong resistance to soul manip. Nothing in his profile seems to imply he lacks a soul too

Kenshiro has NEP type 1 aspect 1
"These are characters whose soul and/or astral body is nonexistent. They are hence immune to regular Soul Manipulation."

2/ MT automatically activating =/= MT activating instantaneously. I don't see what implies that the whole body shift to nothingness would be faster than thought based time stop

Because MT activates without thinking

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]