Kengan revision

[ItalianGuy1234]

characters being scaled incorrectly is an issue that should be discussed right away but what are the isues anyway ?

 

[NikHelton]

Okay, you shouldn't expect any assistance from you. I will ignore your further messages.

Is there anyone else who can help with solving the problem (regarding the fact that the characters are able to damage and fight with those who are 15 times stronger

 

[Damage3245]

Is there anyone else who can help with solving the problem (regarding the fact that the characters are able to damage and fight with those who are 15 times stronger

Just scale him as being "15 times weaker, but possibly higher".

 

[NikHelton]

In that case, Ohma hurting 8-A Kuroki will be 8-B, likely higher?

 

[Antvasima]

Damage's solution is probably fine.

 

[NikHelton]

And what is it?
"Damage's solution"

 

[Damage3245]

And what is it?
"Damage's solution"

You saw me post up above didn't you? Why can't you go with that?

 

[NikHelton]

I go with that. It's just that my English is not very good and I thought that "Damage's solution" is some kind of term from this wiki and decided to clarify.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That solution is probably fine to apply then.

 

[NikHelton]

Perhaps I will be scolded, but by changing the scaling chain, I realized that the middle-high end of the end looks appropriate. Last time, I was terribly repelled by the idea that Gaolang, Muteba, Sekibayashi and Wakatsuki are on the same level, given that Wakatsuki's random punches could knock Muteba out.
However, now everything is more or less in place with the new scaling.

So - Wakatsuki strike = 75 tons of TNT.

1)Top tier (Wakatsuki, Julius, Toa Mudo, Lolong, Raian/Ohma (Omega) and other characters) = 75*3 (due to scaling kicks) = 225 tons - 8-A;
2)Mid tier - (Ohma (Asura), Rihito and the full list) = 75/5 (Ohma's strength ratio and Waka strikes) = 15 tons - 8-B;
3)High tier (Sekibayashi, Raian (Asura), Muteba, Okubo, Kanoh (Asura)) = 15*4 (Kiezan's Violent Rage is 4 times more powerful than a simple blow) = 60 tons - 8-B+.

Raian with Removal = 60*3,33 = 199,8 tons = 8-A;

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Are the rest of you fine with this solution?

 

[NikHelton]

bump

 

[LordGinSama]

Okay so I've essentially been called here from beyond the grave due to misinformation being spread. I'm not gonna drop any suggestions for scaling, you can figure that out for yourselves, I only want to cover a few issues that are abundantly incorrect. Don't expect another comment from me either after this one. I really didn't want to come back but I've been requested to comment here much to my displeasure.

Thank god some1 fixed the absolute mess Gin left this verse in.

First let me start with this shit. I don't ruin anything, you saying "he ruined it!" Is a failure of you not being able to understand calculations or real life responsibilities. Tier 7 scaling was legitimate until the calculations themselves were debunked. So yeah, keep my name out your mouth especially when it's tied to false accusations that's a result of you not understanding even the basics of how scaling nor calculations work. I don't want to see or hear you using my name ever again, let me be clear. Seriously the fact that your really out here talking smack about a user who's left rather than say it to them directly speaks volumes on your cowardice.


The scaling issues

---

First things first, Nik needs to get rid of the random 15x figure since that's a result of applying multipliers to one another whenever that's not allowed unless strictly stated like Fairy Tail's Dragon Force Multiplier scaling to Wendy's normal multipliers.


Wakatsuki's strength overall is 5x higher than Ohma's durability. This would apply to his kicks as well, as it's using "power." as a whole and not only Wakatsuki's punches. Ohma only ever endured one kick and it almost ruptured his liver if it weren't for his Adamantine Kata. This isn't a feat of Ohma's durability scaling, it's a feat of stamina and endurance. His bones were getting cracked, his muscles were getting destroyed and his organs almost got ruptured.



Ohma's durability absolutely shouldn't be scaling to Wakatsuki's durability as of the Semi Finals, first things first Ohma is in a state where he's already dying because of his heart + the accumulated damage of fighting comparable characters such as 100% Raian. He weakened severally at this point in time, and we can cleary see that.




Also let's be honest here, Muteba wasn't gonna get knocked out by Wakatsuki's strikes unless hit in the head. Dude took a blast Core, and only tapped out because he didn't wanna sustain more injuries due to his career. He damaged Wakatsuki several times without the aid of durability negation, and before anyone wants to bring up Seki, Muteba has a tendency to hold back against certain opponents, and is a master of deception. He pretended to be injured by Meguro's attacks but we all know how that fight ended for Meguro. Also worth noting that even Tiger Niko couldn't knock out Muteba with one blow, albeit he wasn't going for the kill either.


Also the argument that Kengan is "realistic." is utterly bullshi and only used as a tool to try to downplay the verse. I'm sorry but realism goes out the window whenever we have characters deflecting bullets, shaking arenas, cutting through steel like butter, and Martial Arts that are basically magic. (Literally anyone who practices any martial arts can tell you how unrealistic Kengan is in that regard, despite it being looking accurate. The only scene that's remotely realistic is Okubo's and Agito's grappling.), so let's please let this Reddit tier argument die already.



Also Fei's Divine Demon is stated to be 9x his base bare minimum due to scaling "several" times above Ohma's maximum output of Advance. As we know, the Advance from the fight with Raian is a bare minimum 3x multiplier. Raian states that Ohma's gotten 2x as fast, and that he gets even faster after increasing his output. As we know Ohma's Advance multiplier also scales to his AP, not just speed since it increases the amount of torque he can strike with. His speed increase is directly correlated to the amount of force he can strike with. Fei's Divine Demon output is several times stronger than Ohma's Maximum output.


Several can mean 3 or 4, so I suppose you can use either.


3x3= 9
3x4= 12 so now you have 2 options to pick from.


There's also the fact that Fei's Divine Demon is stated to be be "several tens of times above his base. (The source of his power is his heart, the more it beats the stronger he becomes.) several tens of times is a group of 30-40. There's a few stated multiplier you can choose from, I don't really care which one gets used but one out of the two will need to be used.


Do what you will with this information, see ya. kudos to Nik for the new calculations btw.



Also muscle mass has like, almost nothing to do with striking strength in Kengan unless there's a significant difference or unless it's a rare case like Julius, Waka and Toa. Misasa, Liu and other smaller fighters both show this.



Ohma's Demonsbane needs a 5x multiplier as well, since he's able to reflect attacks that are 5x stronger than his durability while in a near dying state.

 

[azontr]

Nice seeing you again, Gin. Sorry people were pestering you to return for this.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Base Fei should scale somewhat relative to Wakatsuki, as he can take his hits and even harm him. This places base Fei at 225 tons.


With the lowball of Divine Demon's multiplier of 9 and 12 these are our values respectively.


225 × 9 = 2.025 Kilotons, Low 7-C

225 × 12 = 2.7 Kilotons Low 7-C


With the high end of several tens of times we get these values for Divine Demon.


225x 30 = 6.75 Kilotons, 7-C.


225 x 40 = 9 Kilotons, 7-C.


And before you say outlier, nobody should really scale to him since Fei was stated several times to be overpowering Wakatsuki.

 

[NikHelton]

Fei absolutely couldn't withstand Wakatsuki's punches at base. He scattered them all with water kata and redirection. And the only time he took a hit, dispelling only half the damage, he took serious damage. Fei does not scale to Wakatsuki in any way, being in the base. Moreover, it does not scale to Wakatsuki before its full deployment, for it avoided absolutely all attacks of Takeshi, who in turn tanked all attacks of the Divine Demon. If you re-read, you will notice that all of Fei's attacks were applied to the back of the neck, jaw and the head in general. He tried to break Wakatsuki's brain because other attacks would have had no effect.


Even Julius' attacks in Asura inflicted a much greater impact on Wakatsuki, so he had to use tactics as he could not afford to miss many of the German's punches. In turn, in the battle with Fei DD, he adhered to the tactics of defense and waiting for the right moment, which already suggests that the attacks of the Tiger Vessel are not too dangerous for him.
Fei certainly surpasses Wakatsuki as a fighter, but this is all thanks to his techniques and speed, which did not leave pitching and a chance. But with the full release of power, we can already talk about some kind of equality, because Fei managed to escape from the grip.

Regarding the fact that advance Fei's is several times higher than Ohma's advance, this is either a misjudgment of words, or an outlier, because Ohma's advance is comparable to Raian, which in turn is comparable to Waka himself. Although, in fairness, I should note that I want to revise the scaling of Adnance in relation to Raian Removal.

Raian was still not serious and didn’t even hit with full force, which he confirmed by saying that he was going to kill Ohma with all his might while in his basic state.
He was able to weaken him with multiple attacks to the neck, but the single blows themselves did not significantly more damage to Kura than IronBreaker. But even so, "several times" is just a rough estimate from a fighter who has not personally encountered Adnance Ohma.

Also, 15 times the difference makes sense, as Waka's kicks are 5 times stronger than Ohma's, and kicks are 3 times stronger. Tokita couldn’t talk about general strength, because at that moment he only experienced a punch, and then there wasn’t a kick.


Muteba can still lose one hit to Waka, as it has been argued throughout the fight. The only blow he could tanked he escaped by dodging and not taking all of the impact.

And of course, we have no reason to believe that Fei's strength grows in proportion to an increase in heart rate.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here based on what Gin posted above?

 

[NikHelton]

I would call the previous members of the thread. It is obvious that key 7 is an outlier and is built on the wrong factors.

 

[Antvasima]

I would call the previous members of the thread. It is obvious that key 7 is an outlier and is built on the wrong factors.

@Sir_sun_man @NotoriouSoda @Solacis

What do you think about what Gin posted above? Tier 7 seems out of place to me as well.

 

[LordGinSama]

@Sir_sun_man @NotoriouSoda @Solacis

What do you think about what Gin posted above? Tier 7 seems out of pace to me as well.

This is false, nobody would scale to tier 7. It would scale to one character and one character only.

I would call the previous members of the thread. It is obvious that key 7 is an outlier and is built on the wrong factors.

Disagree 100% now I'll address your argument above.

Fei absolutely couldn't withstand Wakatsuki's punches at base. He scattered them all with water kata and redirection. And the only time he took a hit, dispelling only half the damage, he took serious damage.

First things first, that doesn't matter. Going limp in Kengan doesn't negate all the damage done unless it's something like Demonsbane. Secondly, for the Redirection Kata to even work you need to be able to control the flow of power of your opponent properly, essentially you need to be able to control the opponent's strength. Hence why Ohma couldn't even manage to use any of the Redirection Kata techniques on Wakatsuki because his strength was too great. Fei on the other hand only had his Redirection Kata overpowered by Wakatsuki trying with his full strength. Wakatsuki was completely helpless against Fei's Redirection Kata.


And I wouldn't call spitting up well, spit serious damage. Serious damage is broken bones and internal bleeding, neither of which happened to Fei despite Wakatsuki sealing the Niko Style and delivering point blank knees. He also took a direct blow without the Water Kata or the Redirection Kata and was fine.


You yourself were jusg arguing on Semi Finals Asura Ohma scaling to Wakatsuki despite his attacks doing significantly more damage to Ohma than it did Fei.

Fei does not scale to Wakatsuki in any way, being in the base.

And this just isn't true either, Fei in base was able to injure Wakatsuki several times with standard Niko Style attacks, and as I said for the Redirection Kata to even work you'd need to be at least somewhat comparable to the opponent. I'm sorry but this is yet again blatant misinformation and head canon.

Moreover, it does not scale to Wakatsuki before its full deployment, for it avoided absolutely all attacks of Takeshi, who in turn tanked all attacks of the Divine Demon.

....That's durability, not AP. Divine Demon absolutely scales above Wakatsuki in terms of AP and Striking Strength, he was getting rag dolled the entire fight by Divine Demon. Literally what fight did you read because Wakatsuki was getting his shit kicked in. And this is all before Fei used maximum output. Wakatsuki only got up because of his endurance. There are people who can get shot and still get back up, that doesn't mean that you scale to the bullet, it just means you have good stamina.


And no, Wakatsuki never tanked attacks from Divine Demon, they all caused serious damage. Wakatsuki just continued through sheer endurance, same dude who can get half his face shaved off and still fight for multiple rounds afterwards. Once again, misinformation.

If you re-read, you will notice that all of Fei's attacks were applied to the back of the neck, jaw and the head in general. He tried to break Wakatsuki's brain because other attacks would have had no effect.

Which doesn't mean anything in the long run, those areas have been attacked before by much weaker characters and not much has happened. Wakatsuki has Superman Syndrome, which increases the muscle fibers of them over 52x that of a normal human. What is a weak spot on a normal human is not a weak spot for Wakatsuki.


And he never tried to break Wakatsuki's neck either, he only went in for the kill after unleashing Divine Demon.

Even Julius' attacks in Asura inflicted a much greater impact on Wakatsuki, so he had to use tactics as he could not afford to miss many of the German's punches.

Julius didn't cause more damage with his blows, with a full onslaughts of flurry's from Reinhold wasn't enough to drop the Wild Tiger for long, even when the former shaved off the latter's face he was still able to retaliate just fine.

Divine Demon was inherently doing more damage to Wakatsuki than Julius was doing. Waka didn't pass out after his fight with Julius, Fei knocked Wakatsuki out cold.

In turn, in the battle with Fei DD, he adhered to the tactics of defense and waiting for the right moment, which already suggests that the attacks of the Tiger Vessel are not too dangerous for him.

Because of the mechanics of Divine Demon. He knows the source of that tremendous power is the heart, hence why he was waiting to Blast Core Fei in the chest to force Fei to deactivate Divine Demon. This is explained very clearly in the manga, and surprise Blast Core's have been Wakatsuki's tactic since Asura.

Fei certainly surpasses Wakatsuki as a fighter, but this is all thanks to his techniques and speed, which did not leave pitching and a chance.

This isn't true either, there's literally several statements of Wakatsuki blatantly stating that he's getting overpowered. More than once as well.

And as I said, speed and Striking Strength literally go hand in hand in Kengan. This has been a rule in the verse since chapter 16 of Asura. Why your ignoring this I really don't know why.

But with the full release of power, we can already talk about some kind of equality, because Fei managed to escape from the grip.

That's lifting strength, not AP. Wakatsuki has higher lifting strength, Fei with Divine Demon has higher attack potency.

Regarding the fact that advance Fei's is several times higher than Ohma's advance, this is either a misjudgment of words, or an outlier, because Ohma's advance is comparable to Raian, which in turn is comparable to Waka himself.

That's not how multiplier's work. I'm not using the AP of Ohma's Advance, just the figure that we're given for it's amp. It has a stated multiplier, which Fei's Divine Demon is stated to be above. You can't say it's a misuse of words, that's going against author intent.

Although, in fairness, I should note that I want to revise the scaling of Adnance in relation to Raian Removal.

Meh.

Raian was still not serious and didn’t even hit with full force, which he confirmed by saying that he was going to kill Ohma with all his might while in his basic stMe.

"All his might" is in reference to him busting out Removal. We saw that Base Raian was getting handled by Advance Ohma, then he needed to go Removal to keep up.

He was able to weaken him with multiple attacks to the neck, but the single blows themselves did not significantly more damage to Kura than IronBreaker.

Okay I'm gonna ask what you specify on what characters your talking about, since your going back and forth about more than Fei and Wakatsuki at this point.

But even so, "several times" is just a rough estimate from a fighter who has not personally encountered Adnance Ohma.

Wakatsuki has seen Advance Ohma fight several times in the tournament up close, and even then he knows all about Ohma's Advance hence why he was aiming for the heart and brought up Ohma's Advance. Also the "several times" statement is made by the author, not Wakatsuki.

Also, 15 times the difference makes sense, as Waka's kicks are 5 times stronger than Ohma's, and kicks are 3 times stronger. Tokita couldn’t talk about general strength, because at that moment he only experienced a punch, and then there wasn’t a kick.

15 times absolutely makes no sense, your attempting to scale multipliers to one another to either inflate or deflate statistics. Tokita has powerful information analysis and can see the opponent's flow of power as clear as day, if he only meant his punches then he would have said "His punches." and not power or strength.

That's in reference to his tremendous strength as a whole.

Muteba can still lose one hit to Waka, as it has been argued throughout the fight.

Muteba took a blast-core and wasn't knocked out, albeit he had a broken arm as a result. And even that didn't phase him much. A direct attack from Tiger Niko couldn't knock out him in one blow either.

unless your suggesting that Wakatsuki is >>>> Tiger Niko whenever Fei was rocking Wakatsuki's shit.

The only blow he could tanked he escaped by dodging and not taking all of the impact.

That's the first one, and he didn't dodge either. The attack still hit him, Muteba just managed to reduce the force by stepping back with the punch. He took a direct Blast-Core and wasn't rendered unconscious.

And of course, we have no reason to believe that Fei's strength grows in proportion to an increase in heart rate.

I literally just gave you the scans and statements that proof such. Please stop ignoring scans just because it helps you with your argument.

 

[Antvasima]

This is false, nobody would scale to tier 7. It would scale to one character and one character only.

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, Gin seems to make sense to me. What do you think that we should do here?

 

[NikHelton]

You actively say that I am misinforming, but over and over again you interpret the words of the manga as you like.

By the way, Murabuchi also bled Wakatsuki. In your opinion, it should also be 8-A?

Also scaling the Fei to 7-C doesn't make any sense, since with a 40x power difference, Wakatsuki would just be smeared like a slap of mayonnaise. And even more so, he would not have been waiting for the right moment, enduring all the attacks in order to strike.

I'll tell you more. Now you are saying that Waka only possesses superior LS, not AP, and that is why he was able to capture Fei then. In the Kaneki vs Kanoh thread, you told me that LS is not the determining factor in grappling.

Actually I was hoping you could help explain that Medel's punches could never be stronger than Toa Mudo, but here I only got vague multipliers of 30-40 times, which again try to return the verse to 7-C.



Sometimes it seems to me that the Kengang community on this wiki does not care whether the calculations and scaling are logical and they only want to bring the verse closer to the level of power of Bucky’s verse, where everything is built on exactly the same points.

Last time, the only people who showed a bit of common sense and supported the rebuttal of the 7-C calculations were Ant and Ugarik. I don't want to go through this nonsense again, where, in response to pure logic, I received only that my messages were simply not read and people repeated their words a hundred times.

I put this verse in order, but it looks like now everything will again turn into an incomprehensible mess. If this situation repeats itself, then I just throw the verse, because all this is a big sur.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Anyway, Gin seems to make sense to me. What do you think that we should do here?

I completely true Gin judgement for the Kengan verse as in the last he’s always has been consistent with the verse and it’s scaling

 

[LordGinSama]

You actively say that I am misinforming, but over and over again you interpret the words of the manga as you like.

Ironic considering you've been picking and choosing what statements to use only if they benefit your own interpretation. You are indeed spreading misinformation such as the Advance not having AP.

By the way, Murabuchi also bled Wakatsuki. In your opinion, it should also be 8-A?

Making someone bleed isn't valid form of scaling, but Murobochi did endure a few strikes from Waka and lasted longer than most would have. So this is a false comparison at best.

Also scaling the Fei to 7-C doesn't make any sense, since with a 40x power difference, Wakatsuki would just be smeared like a slap of mayonnaise.

Waka was literally panting, bleeding and had dents placed into his body, the amount of damage that he sustained was immense. And a strike worth a few Kilotons isn't gonna vaporize a causal 8-A with God tier endurance. His Superman Syndrome makes his muscles fibers much thicker, essentially acting as a shock absorber.

And even more so, he would not have been waiting for the right moment, enduring all the attacks in order to strike.

Once again, he was waiting for the right time to strike Fei in the heart with a Blast Core. And he didn't tank those attacks either, all of them ****** him up and sent him flying literally meters away from Fei.


Again, Wakatsuki has a quick recovery rate and eats injuries like it's nothing. Let me repeat, Wakatsuki is the same guy who can have half his face shaved off and still take the W.

I'll tell you more. Now you are saying that Waka only possesses superior LS, not AP, and that is why he was able to capture Fei then.

Because Fei unleashed the full output for Divine Demon, he was blasted off him since maximum output of the Advance has been shown to create explosive gusts of wind.

In the Kaneki vs Kanoh thread, you told me that LS is not the determining factor in grappling.

Really? You wanna use a Vs Battles thread for citation for a CRT? okay. First of all, it doesn't depending on the circumstances. Placing someone in a headlock doesn't require higher lifting strength, locks aren't designed to utilize to overpower your opponent with your own strength. It's about soft submission.

When it comes to holds such as headlock, wether it's a blood choke or an air choke has nothing to do with LS. Hence why you can see much smaller, and weaker people in real life place bigger and stronger people in submission. Brazilian Jujutsu exists for this sole reason.

Actually I was hoping you could help explain that Medel's punches could never be stronger than Toa Mudo,

I think there's an easy solution for that. I'd say that statement holds true, but only for heavy weight Medel. Current Medel stated that he's lost his heavy weight power. But you could scale him to Gao's durability since he did manage to injure Gao's arms while he was guarding against Medel's kicks.

but here I only got vague multipliers of 30-40 times, which again try to return the verse to 7-C.

I also suggested the 9-12 one via scaling above Ohma's Advance, which i think is a safer end. That makes Fei like baseline Low 7-C, which isn't far off from where the verse is now. And like i said, it would scale to Divine Demon and Divine Demon only.


Even Wakatsuki got overpowered, as stated several times.

Sometimes it seems to me that the Kengang community on this wiki does not care whether the calculations and scaling are logical and they only want to bring the verse closer to the level of power of Bucky’s verse, where everything is built on exactly the same points.

Needless and irrelevant. I could give less of a **** about how Kengan compares to Baki, I wouldn't increase the verses AP to match Baki's. Don't bring other verses in her, it only ceases to entice drama.

Last time, the only people who showed a bit of common sense and supported the rebuttal of the 7-C calculations were Ant and Ugarik.

Ant wasn't against the 7-C calculations, and the 7-C calcs were inherently wrong. Although I still think scaling to the mountain is legitimate along with several other calc members.

I don't want to go through this nonsense again, where, in response to pure logic, I received only that my messages were simply not read and people repeated their words a hundred times.

Calm yourself lad. Again, 7-C scales to one character.

I put this verse in order, but it looks like now everything will again turn into an incomprehensible mess. If this situation repeats itself, then I just throw the verse, because all this is a big sur.

If you wanna leave the verse be my guest, but I wouldn't suggest doing so over a mere temper tantrum from you misunderstanding what I'm saying.


Wakatsuki does not scale to Divine Demon, he was getting rag dolled and manhandled. Nobody scales to Divine Demon, as per feats and several statements. So I'm gonna ask that you clear your head and take a breather before you comment here again.


Literally your scaling stays the same, outside of one character who nobody scales to.

 

[NikHelton]

Moreover, Jin, in your last thread, before using the 7-C calculations that were refuted, you used the same scaling chain that you now call stretched.

I don't remember the exact figure Ohma got with the IronBreaker, but round up to 1 tonnes. It does not matter.
I am literally quoting. "Ohma are scaled to 1 tons, while Wakatsuki's kicks are claimed to be 5 times as strong, so they scale to 5 tons. At the same time, kicks are claimed to be 3 times as strong, which gives us 15 tons. ". You literally scaled Waka down to 8-B using a cross-factor, and now you say it's bullshit.

 

[LordGinSama]

Moreover, Jin, in your last thread, before using the 7-C calculations that were refuted, you used the same scaling chain that you now call stretched.

When did I call this current scaling stretched? Yet again your working on baseless assumptions.


The only thing I disagree with your scaling is Ohma being 15x weaker than Waka, and how Divine Demon is handled. Outside of that I'm fine with your scaling, hell I even complimented you on it above.

I don't remember the exact figure Ohma got with the IronBreaker, but round up to 1 tonnes. It does not matter.
I am literally quoting. "Ohma are scaled to 1 tons, while Wakatsuki's kicks are claimed to be 5 times as strong, so they scale to 5 tons. At the same time, kicks are claimed to be 3 times as strong, which gives us 15 tons. ". You literally scaled Waka down to 8-B using a cross-factor, and now you say it's bullshit.

First of all, once I updated the profiles the last time i removed Wakatsuki's 3 times multiplier for his kicks. I'm not sure who added it back, but I just added a "higher" with kicks. Rather than assigning a tier based on that multiplier.


And I only used the 5x multiplier to find Wakatsuki's AP from Ohma's durability. You can use the 5x value, but using that from Ohma's durability to essentially calc stack with multipliers is strictly not allowed here.


Basically the only way for the 15x figure to work is if this statement were made "Wakatsuki's kicks are 3x stronger than his punches, which are 5x above Ohma's durability!" The multipliers would need to be stated to overlap with one another in order for that to work.


This would serves to overly complicated the scaling. Just use the 5x figure.

 

[NikHelton]

Even though you later chose a separate AP key for kicks, you scaled Wakatsuki to 16 tons, scaling it 15 times stronger than Ohma.
All top tiers were 8-B, likely Low 7-C, and the 8-B rating came from this cross-scaling.

 

[LordGinSama]

Even though you later chose a separate AP key for kicks, you scaled Wakatsuki to 16 tons, scaling it 15 times stronger than Ohma.
All top tiers were 8-B, likely Low 7-C, and the 8-B rating came from this cross-scaling.

That's not a multiplier that I used for Waka scaling. I left it as 5x, found that rating and then used the 3x figure attaching it to that value. 15 is sheer multiplier stacking.

 

[NikHelton]

And how is this different from what I do? You got 15x the strength of Waka, starting from Ohma's feat, and based on that, you got a top-tier power rating.
I go the same way, but from the other end.

 

[Antvasima]

@LordGinSama @NikHelton

Can each of you write a post that explains your arguments in an easy to understand manner, so I can ask some staff members to evaluate them afterwards, please?

 

[LordGinSama]

Gimme about an hour or so to respond.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[LordGinSama]

And how is this different from what I do? You got 15x the strength of Waka, starting from Ohma's feat, and based on that, you got a top-tier power rating.
I go the same way, but from the other end.

Because your using them to stack multipliers. What I did was use a 5x multiplier, and from where we can find a value for Wakatsuki's AP. Then after finding the value, that gives us Takeshi's AP.


Basically 5×= Wakatsuki's standard AP value scaling off of Ohma's own durability. We use the value, not the multiplier because the multiplier is how we found the value to begin with. Once finding the value, we use a 3x multiplier. This isn't 15x, it's 5x, finding the value from that then adding a 3x multiplier onto said value.


Basically like I've been saying, the 15x times multiplier doesn't work properly.

@LordGinSama @NikHelton

Can each of you write a post that explains your arguments in an easy to understand manner, so I can ask some staff members to evaluate them afterwards, please?

Yes I'll post again soon.

 

[NikHelton]

Because your using them to stack multipliers. What I did was use a 5x multiplier, and from where we can find a value for Wakatsuki's AP. Then after finding the value, that gives us Takeshi's AP.


Basically 5×= Wakatsuki's standard AP value scaling off of Ohma's own durability. We use the value, not the multiplier because the multiplier is how we found the value to begin with. Once finding the value, we use a 3x multiplier. This isn't 15x, it's 5x, finding the value from that then adding a 3x multiplier onto said value.


Basically like I've been saying, the 15x times multiplier doesn't work properly.

Yes I'll post again soon.

What are you talking about? You scaled Wakatsuki's longevity to 8-B through these multipliers. You scaled to 8-B Kanoh and Kuroki.
It would make sense, scaled only AP and only in a separate key for an individual character, but all characteristics were scaled.

You literally gained 16 tons by first multiplying Tokita's strength by 5 and then by 3 more.

It makes no difference whether you write 5x3 or just 15. The essence is the same. Your Waka, Kanoh and Gensai scaled to 8-B from 8-C + Ohma's. This is a 15-fold multiplier.

 

[NikHelton]

I'm starting to write a post

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

@LordGinSama

Can you do the same please?

 

[LordGinSama]

Thank you.

@LordGinSama

Can you do the same please?

Yes I'll wait for Nik's post as the closing argument.

 

[NikHelton]

Write your answer based on my answers above. This is not a continuation of our argument with you. We both write all our arguments so that the responsible people read both posts and express their opinion.
I believe that our posts should be a simple defense of their arguments supported by evidence, and not attempts to challenge each other.

 

[LordGinSama]

Write your answer based on my answers above. This is not a continuation of our argument with you. We both write all our arguments so that the responsible people read both posts and express their opinion.
I believe that our posts should be a simple defense of their arguments supported by evidence, and not attempts to challenge each other.

That's the plan, not really sure why you continue to confuse yourself. It wouldn't make sense for both of us to present our arguments at the same time, as that would in turn be the textbook definition of "continuing the argument."


I'll take my time with my reply, and I suggest you do the same. I'm also in the middle of writing a separate and frankly more important CRT so it's best that you present your argument first while I wrap things up there.