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Kazuya vs Abel
- Thread starter fandom_420Swagnemite
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Obviously Abel
Kazuya defeated the Archangels respectively but Abel's mere prescence scared the hell out of them along with the voice of god
Kazuya defeated the Archangels respectively but Abel's mere prescence scared the hell out of them along with the voice of god
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Wait, didn't Kazuya defeat Michael, who was able to fight against Lucifer?
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Abel fought Lucifer (although he wasn't entirely serious) before even becoming the King of Bel, so I'd say that's a bit of a moot point. So I agree with Magi Sinbad.
Also Abel can summon demons that are canonically as strong as Metatron iirc, so he's got numbers on his side as well.
Also Abel can summon demons that are canonically as strong as Metatron iirc, so he's got numbers on his side as well.
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In Shin Megami Tensei, Belzeebub himself mentioned that Lucifer feared the Protagonist of SMT I. And according to the japanese official fanbook of SMT I, Asura has power equal to that of Lucifer's. I would say that would make The Hero(Kazuya) have an edge on this battle.
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And according to the japanese official fanbook of SMT I, Asura has power equal to that of Lucifer's.
Can you provide the sources ? i think it would help alot
but keep in mind that the Word of God is considered as the "weakest" type of evidence as the author's words are sometime contradict with the actual infor in the game. In this case, i find it's hard to believe that Asura is equal to the supreme leader of Chaos fraction while Beelzulbub is Lucifer's right-hand ma
Can you provide the sources ? i think it would help alot
but keep in mind that the Word of God is considered as the "weakest" type of evidence as the author's words are sometime contradict with the actual infor in the game. In this case, i find it's hard to believe that Asura is equal to the supreme leader of Chaos fraction while Beelzulbub is Lucifer's right-hand ma
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Abel, easily. Kazuya has only fought Michael, Beelzebub, and Asura in terms of MegaTen Mid-Tiers. Abel was "able" to beat Metatron, who is above all of them. Abel's summons are just too strong for Kazuya to handle. Kazuya is the weakest MegaTen protagonist not counting Persona or canon Soul Hackers.
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Thank you for your kind response. This is my first time posting on a thread on a wiki, and I'm starting to understand how 'Word of God' could sometimes be contradicted. The source which I used to mention that Asura would be of equal power to Lucifer, is <CLUB Jakyō no Yakata - Shin Megami Tensei Fanbook (CLUBÚ鬵òÖÒü«Úñ¿―þ£ƒÒâ╗ÕÑ│þÑ×Þ╗óþöƒÒâòÒéíÒâ│ÒâûÒââÒé»)>. In this book, it says that Asura and Lucifer wouldn't have much difference in power.
However, this might be contradicted, as in the game <Devil Summoner 2 : Kuznoha Raidou vs. King Abaddo>, Asura mentions that himself is the same being as Virochana, and Ahura Mazuda.
I also checked the Asura (Shin Megami Tensei) article on this wiki, and this got me confused. If this should be in the Asura thread, I will erase this part and move it there.
It says that he would be weaker than Beelzebub, but Beelzebub himself in <Shin Megami Tensei>, contradicts with this statement as Beelzebub mentions that if The Hero would not be able to defeat Beelzebub, he would not be able to defeat Asura. Lucifer, before sending The Hero to the island, states very similar words to this, too (although it turns out to be Lucifer's assassination attempt in Law and Neutral alignments).
Moreover, the data also supports what Beelzebub said in the game. Beelzebub as a boss, is of level 108. While, Asura as a boss, is level 110. This puts him in a slightly stronger position than Beelzebub. As a summonable demon, this difference gets much bigger as Asura(PCE) is of level 116, and Beelzebub is of level 99.
However, this might be contradicted, as in the game <Devil Summoner 2 : Kuznoha Raidou vs. King Abaddo>, Asura mentions that himself is the same being as Virochana, and Ahura Mazuda.
I also checked the Asura (Shin Megami Tensei) article on this wiki, and this got me confused. If this should be in the Asura thread, I will erase this part and move it there.
It says that he would be weaker than Beelzebub, but Beelzebub himself in <Shin Megami Tensei>, contradicts with this statement as Beelzebub mentions that if The Hero would not be able to defeat Beelzebub, he would not be able to defeat Asura. Lucifer, before sending The Hero to the island, states very similar words to this, too (although it turns out to be Lucifer's assassination attempt in Law and Neutral alignments).
Moreover, the data also supports what Beelzebub said in the game. Beelzebub as a boss, is of level 108. While, Asura as a boss, is level 110. This puts him in a slightly stronger position than Beelzebub. As a summonable demon, this difference gets much bigger as Asura(PCE) is of level 116, and Beelzebub is of level 99.
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It is possible that Asura could be at that level for the first entry in the series, but I find it near impossible to believe this is the case for later games. In SMT II, Lucifer was very powerful, not quite Satan's II incarnation(Law) or Aleph level, but he was present in the fight against YHVH in the chaos route. YHVH is one of the strongest characters in the entire series, and I would say simply being present at that fight gives you serious credibility strength-wise.
For a different example, Lucifer is stronger than Base-Form Demiurge(I wouldn't say the same about Fused-Demiurge, Tadano, or Mem Aleph AT ALL.). In Strange Journey and SMT IV, Asura isn't even in the same ballpark as Base Demiurge.
In terms of SMT I, I feel that using it as a source for stats on characters is confusing in general. One second, you have the protagonist beating Thor, and 60 seconds later, they need to be saved from ICBM's. I would say that Lucifer's strength heavily fluctuates throughout the series, with SMT II being its high point, and SMT I being its low point. If Asura is at the strength of Lucifer in SMT I, why are the Trimurti above Asura in every other entry? In SMT I, Shiva only made an appearance as a summonable demon, while Vishnu made a story appearance. Even then, how do we know that Kazuya could beat Metatron, who is stronger than Michael(Asura's Equal) and Beelzebub?
For a different example, Lucifer is stronger than Base-Form Demiurge(I wouldn't say the same about Fused-Demiurge, Tadano, or Mem Aleph AT ALL.). In Strange Journey and SMT IV, Asura isn't even in the same ballpark as Base Demiurge.
In terms of SMT I, I feel that using it as a source for stats on characters is confusing in general. One second, you have the protagonist beating Thor, and 60 seconds later, they need to be saved from ICBM's. I would say that Lucifer's strength heavily fluctuates throughout the series, with SMT II being its high point, and SMT I being its low point. If Asura is at the strength of Lucifer in SMT I, why are the Trimurti above Asura in every other entry? In SMT I, Shiva only made an appearance as a summonable demon, while Vishnu made a story appearance. Even then, how do we know that Kazuya could beat Metatron, who is stronger than Michael(Asura's Equal) and Beelzebub?
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Thank you for your kind response. This is my first time posting on a thread on a wiki
No problem. But...it's kinda long since the time i replied to your comment >.>
'I also checked the Asura (Shin Megami Tensei) article on this wiki, and this got me confused. If this 'should be in the Asura thread, I will erase this part and move it there.
yeah... this is actually belong to Content Revision Board, but since this is important to the match, i will let it pass.
It says that he would be weaker than Beelzebub, but Beelzebub himself in <Shin Megami Tensei>, contradicts with this statement as Beelzebub mentions that if The Hero would not be able to defeat Beelzebub, he would not be able to defeat Asura.
It could also mean that Beelzebub want to test his power, if he can defeat Beelzebub, then Beelzebub can be sure that The Hero can defeats Asura (And obviously, he can)
Moreover, the data also supports what Beelzebub said in the game. Beelzebub as a boss, is of level 108. While, Asura as a boss, is level 110. This puts him in a slightly stronger position than Beelzebub. As a summonable demon, this difference gets much bigger as Asura(PCE) is of level 116, and Beelzebub is of level 99.
I actually had a long and long and long conversation with another member about Asura's rating, that was also included his in-game stats . The stats in SMT arent really mean anything, REALLY ! Stats like that can change from game to game overtime.
SMT 4 : Asura level is 30 while Beelzebub's level is 90
Devil Survivor : Asura level is 71, Beelzebub (Day 7) is 62, Beelzebub (Bel Rush) is 65 and Beelzebub (Yuzu route) is 73
Devil Survivor 2 : Asura level is 77, Beelzebub level is 91
Raidou 2 : Asura level is 80, Beelzebub level is 62
As you can see, the stats of these two are just jump from this to there. So we cant rely on the stats to talk about this. Heh, the same reason why we concluded that although Asura hold a really high positition in Chaos Fraction, he dont come close to Beelzebub in power, not as long as Lucifer still refer Beelzebub as Lucifer's right-hand man
No problem. But...it's kinda long since the time i replied to your comment >.>
'I also checked the Asura (Shin Megami Tensei) article on this wiki, and this got me confused. If this 'should be in the Asura thread, I will erase this part and move it there.
yeah... this is actually belong to Content Revision Board, but since this is important to the match, i will let it pass.
It says that he would be weaker than Beelzebub, but Beelzebub himself in <Shin Megami Tensei>, contradicts with this statement as Beelzebub mentions that if The Hero would not be able to defeat Beelzebub, he would not be able to defeat Asura.
It could also mean that Beelzebub want to test his power, if he can defeat Beelzebub, then Beelzebub can be sure that The Hero can defeats Asura (And obviously, he can)
Moreover, the data also supports what Beelzebub said in the game. Beelzebub as a boss, is of level 108. While, Asura as a boss, is level 110. This puts him in a slightly stronger position than Beelzebub. As a summonable demon, this difference gets much bigger as Asura(PCE) is of level 116, and Beelzebub is of level 99.
I actually had a long and long and long conversation with another member about Asura's rating, that was also included his in-game stats . The stats in SMT arent really mean anything, REALLY ! Stats like that can change from game to game overtime.
SMT 4 : Asura level is 30 while Beelzebub's level is 90
Devil Survivor : Asura level is 71, Beelzebub (Day 7) is 62, Beelzebub (Bel Rush) is 65 and Beelzebub (Yuzu route) is 73
Devil Survivor 2 : Asura level is 77, Beelzebub level is 91
Raidou 2 : Asura level is 80, Beelzebub level is 62
As you can see, the stats of these two are just jump from this to there. So we cant rely on the stats to talk about this. Heh, the same reason why we concluded that although Asura hold a really high positition in Chaos Fraction, he dont come close to Beelzebub in power, not as long as Lucifer still refer Beelzebub as Lucifer's right-hand man
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It is possible that Asura could be at that level for the first entry in the series, but I find it near impossible to believe this is the case for later games. (...) In terms of SMT I, I feel that using it as a source for stats on characters is confusing in general.
I actually had a long and long and long conversation with another member about Asura's rating, that was also included his in-game stats . The stats in SMT arent really mean anything, REALLY ! Stats like that can change from game to game overtime. (...) As you can see, the stats of these two are just jump from this to there. So we cant rely on the stats to talk about this.
Thank you both for explaining in detail. I've forgot that the level of demons could vary largely from game title to title. Now, I can see why in-game stats would be an unstable factor to talk about in this case. I have made a big mistake on this. Again, thank you very much for pointing this out.
Oh, and the part about that long and long conversation seems interesting. I'll try to check out that thread and read through it.
One second, you have the protagonist beating Thor, and 60 seconds later, they need to be saved from ICBM's.
That part also surprised me. When playing the game first, I thought there were no particular problems with the protagonist at that point, Gotou and Thor having their lives at risk by the ICBM. The articles about Shin Megami Tensei characters surprised me very much. I never thought that the characters would be very powerful.
Even then, how do we know that Kazuya could beat Metatron, who is stronger than Michael(Asura's Equal) and Beelzebub?
Yes, that is a very good thing to point out. I agree that there is no certain source that would determine if The Hero could defeat Metatron. Since fan remakes such as <Shin Megami Tensei VX> of course, cannot be included here, I see that in <Shin Megami Tensei> and every of its official remakes, there were no encounters with Metatron. Since this is an important part of whether The Hero or Abel would have an edge on this battle, I understand that makes Abel have an advantage.
It could also mean that Beelzebub want to test his power, if he can defeat Beelzebub, then Beelzebub can be sure that The Hero can defeats Asura (And obviously, he can)
I understand that Beelzebub's words could also be interpreted this way. What Beelzebub meant in that case would be 'Let's see how powerful you are. If you beat me, then I can be sure that you would be able to defeat Asura.' What I think on the otherhand, is 'Try to beat me. if you can't, you won't even stand a chance against Asura.' Since what Beelzebub means is vague, I guess only Atlus would know what he meant.
But...it's kinda long since the time i replied to your comment >.>
I am very sorry about this, I was busy for a while.
Speaking of later games, this makes me curious. Would the DLC from <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse> be valid for a character's feat? If so, would Stephen and the four protagonists (The Hero, Aleph, Demi-fiend, Flynn) might have a change in article? Since, Stephen was tanking all kind of attacks from Nanashi(+3 high-level demons), and those four protagonists. And, vice versa.
I actually had a long and long and long conversation with another member about Asura's rating, that was also included his in-game stats . The stats in SMT arent really mean anything, REALLY ! Stats like that can change from game to game overtime. (...) As you can see, the stats of these two are just jump from this to there. So we cant rely on the stats to talk about this.
Thank you both for explaining in detail. I've forgot that the level of demons could vary largely from game title to title. Now, I can see why in-game stats would be an unstable factor to talk about in this case. I have made a big mistake on this. Again, thank you very much for pointing this out.
Oh, and the part about that long and long conversation seems interesting. I'll try to check out that thread and read through it.
One second, you have the protagonist beating Thor, and 60 seconds later, they need to be saved from ICBM's.
That part also surprised me. When playing the game first, I thought there were no particular problems with the protagonist at that point, Gotou and Thor having their lives at risk by the ICBM. The articles about Shin Megami Tensei characters surprised me very much. I never thought that the characters would be very powerful.
Even then, how do we know that Kazuya could beat Metatron, who is stronger than Michael(Asura's Equal) and Beelzebub?
Yes, that is a very good thing to point out. I agree that there is no certain source that would determine if The Hero could defeat Metatron. Since fan remakes such as <Shin Megami Tensei VX> of course, cannot be included here, I see that in <Shin Megami Tensei> and every of its official remakes, there were no encounters with Metatron. Since this is an important part of whether The Hero or Abel would have an edge on this battle, I understand that makes Abel have an advantage.
It could also mean that Beelzebub want to test his power, if he can defeat Beelzebub, then Beelzebub can be sure that The Hero can defeats Asura (And obviously, he can)
I understand that Beelzebub's words could also be interpreted this way. What Beelzebub meant in that case would be 'Let's see how powerful you are. If you beat me, then I can be sure that you would be able to defeat Asura.' What I think on the otherhand, is 'Try to beat me. if you can't, you won't even stand a chance against Asura.' Since what Beelzebub means is vague, I guess only Atlus would know what he meant.
But...it's kinda long since the time i replied to your comment >.>
I am very sorry about this, I was busy for a while.
Speaking of later games, this makes me curious. Would the DLC from <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse> be valid for a character's feat? If so, would Stephen and the four protagonists (The Hero, Aleph, Demi-fiend, Flynn) might have a change in article? Since, Stephen was tanking all kind of attacks from Nanashi(+3 high-level demons), and those four protagonists. And, vice versa.
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I have made a big mistake on this. Again, thank you very much for pointing this out.
It's okay, everyone alway makes mistakes in their life ^__^ In fact, i kinda suprised because you forgive my bad english so easily. But anyway, you can ask for advice anytime in this wiki. Just dont go out and editing profiles before making an revision thread, that would causes alot of trouble for us
Oh, and the part about that long and long conversation seems interesting. I'll try to check out that thread and read through it.
Sorry for saying this but the conversation was actually happened in Facebook chat box, and the guy whom i were talked to got his account banned from there, so i cant get any thing from the conversation for you to read
The articles about Shin Megami Tensei characters surprised me very much. I never thought that the characters would be very powerful.
The reason why SMT so powerful is because of this Disco Ball . His role in SMT gave entire verse a bunch of massive power level boost as his existence encompass entire Amala multiverse, not to mention that he's also the one that hold the concept of time. Once Kagutsuchi is dead, the concept of time will gone along with him. and Hitoshura with Lucifer were able to moving freely in the void that time is dead so yeah, they got an immesurable speed feat. Heh, there are alot more impressive feats but i think i should stop here
I guess only Atlus would know what he meant.
Until Kaneko give us a prober power ranking, Asura will stay at where he is. Then again, he lack of feats for me to accept that he is stronger than Beel
Speaking of later games, this makes me curious. Would the DLC from <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse> be valid for a character's feat? If so, would Stephen and the four protagonists (The Hero, Aleph, Demi-fiend, Flynn) might have a change in article? Since, Stephen was tanking all kind of attacks from Nanashi(+3 high-level demons), and those four protagonists. And, vice versa.
I think it's look legit enough, infact, after reading the recent interview, it's hard to believe that the protagonists can take the attacks from Stephen. Arcoding to the the interview (in the Professor Matsuda and Stephen section ) Stephen, along with Mido and Saint Germain were transended the circle of transmigration and became Buddhas (This explained why Mido and Stephen were able to appear in most mainline game in SMT ). They were able to met the Great Reason and even catch up with The Great Reason's movement. Not even YHVH was able to percieve The Great Reason. In other word. They have became the higher dimension Being, which, acording to our Higher Dimension system , would give Stephen, Mido and Saint Germaint higher ranking than YHVH. So yeah, currently, we have 4 God Tier
>The Great Reason ( the biggest one )
>Stephe
>Mido
>Saint Germaint
The only problem left is should we scail the protagonists to Stephen or not
It's okay, everyone alway makes mistakes in their life ^__^ In fact, i kinda suprised because you forgive my bad english so easily. But anyway, you can ask for advice anytime in this wiki. Just dont go out and editing profiles before making an revision thread, that would causes alot of trouble for us
Oh, and the part about that long and long conversation seems interesting. I'll try to check out that thread and read through it.
Sorry for saying this but the conversation was actually happened in Facebook chat box, and the guy whom i were talked to got his account banned from there, so i cant get any thing from the conversation for you to read
The articles about Shin Megami Tensei characters surprised me very much. I never thought that the characters would be very powerful.
The reason why SMT so powerful is because of this Disco Ball . His role in SMT gave entire verse a bunch of massive power level boost as his existence encompass entire Amala multiverse, not to mention that he's also the one that hold the concept of time. Once Kagutsuchi is dead, the concept of time will gone along with him. and Hitoshura with Lucifer were able to moving freely in the void that time is dead so yeah, they got an immesurable speed feat. Heh, there are alot more impressive feats but i think i should stop here
I guess only Atlus would know what he meant.
Until Kaneko give us a prober power ranking, Asura will stay at where he is. Then again, he lack of feats for me to accept that he is stronger than Beel
Speaking of later games, this makes me curious. Would the DLC from <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse> be valid for a character's feat? If so, would Stephen and the four protagonists (The Hero, Aleph, Demi-fiend, Flynn) might have a change in article? Since, Stephen was tanking all kind of attacks from Nanashi(+3 high-level demons), and those four protagonists. And, vice versa.
I think it's look legit enough, infact, after reading the recent interview, it's hard to believe that the protagonists can take the attacks from Stephen. Arcoding to the the interview (in the Professor Matsuda and Stephen section ) Stephen, along with Mido and Saint Germain were transended the circle of transmigration and became Buddhas (This explained why Mido and Stephen were able to appear in most mainline game in SMT ). They were able to met the Great Reason and even catch up with The Great Reason's movement. Not even YHVH was able to percieve The Great Reason. In other word. They have became the higher dimension Being, which, acording to our Higher Dimension system , would give Stephen, Mido and Saint Germaint higher ranking than YHVH. So yeah, currently, we have 4 God Tier
>The Great Reason ( the biggest one )
>Stephe
>Mido
>Saint Germaint
The only problem left is should we scail the protagonists to Stephen or not
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It's okay, everyone alway makes mistakes in their life ^__^ In fact, i kinda suprised because you forgive my bad english so easily. But anyway, you can ask for advice anytime in this wiki. Just dont go out and editing profiles before making an revision thread, that would causes alot of trouble for us
Yes, of course. Editing around profiles without a single conversation would be rude.
The reason why SMT so powerful is because of this Disco Ball .
Ah, that explains. I knew that even most of the low-level demons are powerful than beasts in the wild, and high-level demons ignoring ICBM showers as if they were nothing by playing through Megami Tensei games and reading Megami Tensei TRPG rule books. But, the Shin Megami Tensei characters much more powerful than I thought. This is interesting.
I think it's look legit enough, infact, after reading the recent interview, it's hard to believe that the protagonists can take the attacks from Stephen. (...) The only problem left is should we scail the protagonists to Stephen or not
Thank you for the link! I enjoyed my time reading the interview. This is very interesting. So, Stephen really did transcend circle of transmigration, huh? I knew that Stephen was an extraordinary being, surviving ICBM showers and the horrible flood, and still appearing unaged and well in the quite far future (Shin Megami Tensei II), and parallel worlds (Shin Megami Tensei IV). And well, it seems Stephen also transcended my imagination. There was a rumor between japanese fans that Stephen might be the reincarnation of Akemi Nakajima. But, it seems that Stephen was far more than that.
Yes, I'm wondering if the five protagonists of the main Shin Megami Tensei series would be scaled up to Stephen. Stephen did state that he will go all out on them, but I guess waiting for the revision thread might be wiser. If it does scale, I think this might affect the outcome of the battle between The Hero and Abel considerably.
Yes, of course. Editing around profiles without a single conversation would be rude.
The reason why SMT so powerful is because of this Disco Ball .
Ah, that explains. I knew that even most of the low-level demons are powerful than beasts in the wild, and high-level demons ignoring ICBM showers as if they were nothing by playing through Megami Tensei games and reading Megami Tensei TRPG rule books. But, the Shin Megami Tensei characters much more powerful than I thought. This is interesting.
I think it's look legit enough, infact, after reading the recent interview, it's hard to believe that the protagonists can take the attacks from Stephen. (...) The only problem left is should we scail the protagonists to Stephen or not
Thank you for the link! I enjoyed my time reading the interview. This is very interesting. So, Stephen really did transcend circle of transmigration, huh? I knew that Stephen was an extraordinary being, surviving ICBM showers and the horrible flood, and still appearing unaged and well in the quite far future (Shin Megami Tensei II), and parallel worlds (Shin Megami Tensei IV). And well, it seems Stephen also transcended my imagination. There was a rumor between japanese fans that Stephen might be the reincarnation of Akemi Nakajima. But, it seems that Stephen was far more than that.
Yes, I'm wondering if the five protagonists of the main Shin Megami Tensei series would be scaled up to Stephen. Stephen did state that he will go all out on them, but I guess waiting for the revision thread might be wiser. If it does scale, I think this might affect the outcome of the battle between The Hero and Abel considerably.
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Stephen is the coolest character in all of MegaTen man! This might seem insane, but I can't stop watching the DLC fight against him over and over! When enough people have played IV Apocalypse(Picked up my copy today!!) and the Downloadable Missions, I think we should give all of the SMT protagonists(except Tadano :[ ) a separate rating on the key(I don't know how to explain it, basically, give them a form that scales to Stephen somewhat). Sadly, if we were to include that form of Kazuya, this would be a ridiculous stomp, as he would at the least be five-dimensional, while Abel(and a large majority of MegaTen) is only 4-D.
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There was a rumor between japanese fans that Stephen might be the reincarnation of Akemi Nakajima.
I suprised.... nobody says Stephen is Yu from the future (i mean, look at their character design not to mention that his Persona is Izanagi, which is Akemi's previous life, lol )
Yes, I'm wondering if the five protagonists of the main Shin Megami Tensei series would be scaled up to Stephe
Not really sure about that, Matthew (an admin of this wiki) told me that the DLC was non-canon ( heh, it look canon enough to me ) Anyway. If we argree that the DLC is canon then yes, like Zian said, this would turn out to be a stomp , REALLY big stomp
Also, i really interesting on the Megami Tensei TRPG rule book, do you have the link to the rulebook ?
I suprised.... nobody says Stephen is Yu from the future (i mean, look at their character design
not to mention that his Persona is Izanagi, which is Akemi's previous life, lol )Yes, I'm wondering if the five protagonists of the main Shin Megami Tensei series would be scaled up to Stephe
Not really sure about that, Matthew (an admin of this wiki) told me that the DLC was non-canon ( heh, it look canon enough to me ) Anyway. If we argree that the DLC is canon then yes, like Zian said, this would turn out to be a stomp , REALLY big stomp
Also, i really interesting on the Megami Tensei TRPG rule book, do you have the link to the rulebook ?
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Stephen is the coolest character in all of MegaTen man!
Well, yes. Stephen is a very interesting character. Appearing out of different places, and yet giving mysterious advices and words. Plus, I like this guy since he gives memory expanision on your COMP.
I suprised.... nobody says Stephen is Yu from the future (i mean, look at their character design not to mention that his Persona is Izanagi, which is Akemi's previous life, lol )
Reading your post, I just found out that the Protagonist of Persona 4 is somewhat similar to Stephen. Yes, he does have silver hair and glasses, and his persona, Izanagi is Akemi Nakajima's previous life as you said. I think the rumor that Stephen is the reincarnation of Akemi Nakajima is quite interesting, as they also kind of share some similarites too. Such as their hairstyle, and the fact that they both created the Demon Summoning Program.
Sadly, if we were to include that form of Kazuya, this would be a ridiculous stomp, as he would at the least be five-dimensional, while Abel(and a large majority of MegaTen) is only 4-D.
Not really sure about that, Matthew (an admin of this wiki) told me that the DLC was non-canon ( heh, it look canon enough to me ) Anyway. If we argree that the DLC is canon then yes, like Zian said, this would turn out to be a stomp , REALLY big stomp
Oh, this is a twist. I suppose if the five protagonists get the scaling, then The Hero would have a solid, definite advantage over Abel on this battle. Since The Hero did tank and damage Stephen in that DLC, I guess Abel wouldn't have such a great time. And, maybe the thing that The Hero has access to skills unlike <Shin Megami Tensei> doesn't help this either. (Although it is not sure if he got this permanently, or just temporarily due to the events of the DLC.)
If I remember right, the Pierce skill and skills with piercing effects will now penetrate through Reflect in <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse>. And one of The Hero's skills has a piercing effect, and also lowers down enemy's resistances, just like what Flynn can do in the final battle. And another one allows him to attack, and then get a grin advantage.
Also, i really interesting on the Megami Tensei TRPG rule book, do you have the link to the rulebook ?
Well, there is several rulebooks for Shin Megami Tensei. There are three rulebooks that I know. Here is the link to the wikipedia page about that, first. [1]
*If this is not to be in this thread, then I would appreciate to hear that. I'll erase this quickly in that case.
First one would be <Shin Megami Tensei : Kakusei He>, which allows the players to play through the dark and serious Shin Megami Tensei, or something like the Devil Summoner series. What interested me about this edition, was that it told several interesting stories related to the Shin Megami Tensei series. Two of the things would be the COMP, and the Great Destruction.
According to the <Shin Megami Tensei : Kakusei He>, the first person ever to invent the COMP and the Demon Summoning Program is Akemi Nakajima, but he disappeared and no one was able to understand how COMP works. After some time, the Demon Summoning Program once again appeared out to the world by Stephen, and there are two legends about whether who received the handheld COMP.
The first legend is that a student of Karukozaka School received the handheld COMP first. The Karukozaka School fell in to the Expanse, but this student fought against the ruler of the expanse (who is highly likely to be Hazama), and returned to the reality. This person is likely to be the protagonist of <Shin Megami Tensei if...>
The other legend is that a boy who was computer enthusiast, got the handheld COMP first. Before the Japanese self-defense forces made a barricade between Tokyo, a strange mist surrounded the Kichijoji. And this boy, by summoning demons by his COMP, stopped the Demon God(Deity, in the english verison) summoning ritual that was going on in the Inokashira Park, saving the world. This person is highly likely to be The Hero. No one knows who this boy is, and what happened to him as the Japanese self-defense forces blocked the way to Kichijoji. (This means The Hero already saved the world before the events of <Shin Megami Tensei>, huh? Impressive.)
Since players can see that the COMP in the <Shin Megami Tensei if...> is the copy that a teacher made, after he saw and was impressed by The Hero's COMP, it is highly likely that the latter is true.
Now, about the Great Destruction. Well, it's a very, very important event. According to the rulebook, if the ICBM is not stopped from being falled, than all other hopes are denied, lost forever. This forces the player characters to go into the Shin Megami Tensei route, forcing them to struggle to survive, and fight through the events during the <Shin Megami Tensei> and <Shin Megami Tensei II>. Since it is explained the apocalypse draws near as Gate Points(GP) get higher, it could be said that the ICBM event and the apocalypse happens as few people like the player characters get stronger. As, as they get stronger, the Gate Points get higher and higher.
The next rulebook that I know a little bit is <Shin Megami Tensei III -NOCTURNE- TRPG Tokyo Conceptio>, I didn't see how it is played out by myself, but I guess it allows the players to play through the events after the Tokyo Conception in <Shin Megami Tensei III : Nocturne>.
Third rulebook that I know, is <Shin Megami Tensei TRPG : Mato Tokyo 200X>, this is the most recent TRPG rulebook of Shin Megami Tensei. There are several classes that the player characters can take to divide roles. There are several supplement books for this rulebook, such as <Kongo Shinkai (Diamond Realm)>, and the <Tokyo Millenium>. You can see several replay books for this, which is a record of what happened during the game, and what the player characters have said and acted.
Well, yes. Stephen is a very interesting character. Appearing out of different places, and yet giving mysterious advices and words. Plus, I like this guy since he gives memory expanision on your COMP.
I suprised.... nobody says Stephen is Yu from the future (i mean, look at their character design
not to mention that his Persona is Izanagi, which is Akemi's previous life, lol )Reading your post, I just found out that the Protagonist of Persona 4 is somewhat similar to Stephen. Yes, he does have silver hair and glasses, and his persona, Izanagi is Akemi Nakajima's previous life as you said. I think the rumor that Stephen is the reincarnation of Akemi Nakajima is quite interesting, as they also kind of share some similarites too. Such as their hairstyle, and the fact that they both created the Demon Summoning Program.
Sadly, if we were to include that form of Kazuya, this would be a ridiculous stomp, as he would at the least be five-dimensional, while Abel(and a large majority of MegaTen) is only 4-D.
Not really sure about that, Matthew (an admin of this wiki) told me that the DLC was non-canon ( heh, it look canon enough to me ) Anyway. If we argree that the DLC is canon then yes, like Zian said, this would turn out to be a stomp , REALLY big stomp
Oh, this is a twist. I suppose if the five protagonists get the scaling, then The Hero would have a solid, definite advantage over Abel on this battle. Since The Hero did tank and damage Stephen in that DLC, I guess Abel wouldn't have such a great time. And, maybe the thing that The Hero has access to skills unlike <Shin Megami Tensei> doesn't help this either. (Although it is not sure if he got this permanently, or just temporarily due to the events of the DLC.)
If I remember right, the Pierce skill and skills with piercing effects will now penetrate through Reflect in <Shin Megami Tensei IV : Apocalypse>. And one of The Hero's skills has a piercing effect, and also lowers down enemy's resistances, just like what Flynn can do in the final battle. And another one allows him to attack, and then get a grin advantage.
Also, i really interesting on the Megami Tensei TRPG rule book, do you have the link to the rulebook ?
Well, there is several rulebooks for Shin Megami Tensei. There are three rulebooks that I know. Here is the link to the wikipedia page about that, first. [1]
*If this is not to be in this thread, then I would appreciate to hear that. I'll erase this quickly in that case.
First one would be <Shin Megami Tensei : Kakusei He>, which allows the players to play through the dark and serious Shin Megami Tensei, or something like the Devil Summoner series. What interested me about this edition, was that it told several interesting stories related to the Shin Megami Tensei series. Two of the things would be the COMP, and the Great Destruction.
According to the <Shin Megami Tensei : Kakusei He>, the first person ever to invent the COMP and the Demon Summoning Program is Akemi Nakajima, but he disappeared and no one was able to understand how COMP works. After some time, the Demon Summoning Program once again appeared out to the world by Stephen, and there are two legends about whether who received the handheld COMP.
The first legend is that a student of Karukozaka School received the handheld COMP first. The Karukozaka School fell in to the Expanse, but this student fought against the ruler of the expanse (who is highly likely to be Hazama), and returned to the reality. This person is likely to be the protagonist of <Shin Megami Tensei if...>
The other legend is that a boy who was computer enthusiast, got the handheld COMP first. Before the Japanese self-defense forces made a barricade between Tokyo, a strange mist surrounded the Kichijoji. And this boy, by summoning demons by his COMP, stopped the Demon God(Deity, in the english verison) summoning ritual that was going on in the Inokashira Park, saving the world. This person is highly likely to be The Hero. No one knows who this boy is, and what happened to him as the Japanese self-defense forces blocked the way to Kichijoji. (This means The Hero already saved the world before the events of <Shin Megami Tensei>, huh? Impressive.)
Since players can see that the COMP in the <Shin Megami Tensei if...> is the copy that a teacher made, after he saw and was impressed by The Hero's COMP, it is highly likely that the latter is true.
Now, about the Great Destruction. Well, it's a very, very important event. According to the rulebook, if the ICBM is not stopped from being falled, than all other hopes are denied, lost forever. This forces the player characters to go into the Shin Megami Tensei route, forcing them to struggle to survive, and fight through the events during the <Shin Megami Tensei> and <Shin Megami Tensei II>. Since it is explained the apocalypse draws near as Gate Points(GP) get higher, it could be said that the ICBM event and the apocalypse happens as few people like the player characters get stronger. As, as they get stronger, the Gate Points get higher and higher.
The next rulebook that I know a little bit is <Shin Megami Tensei III -NOCTURNE- TRPG Tokyo Conceptio>, I didn't see how it is played out by myself, but I guess it allows the players to play through the events after the Tokyo Conception in <Shin Megami Tensei III : Nocturne>.
Third rulebook that I know, is <Shin Megami Tensei TRPG : Mato Tokyo 200X>, this is the most recent TRPG rulebook of Shin Megami Tensei. There are several classes that the player characters can take to divide roles. There are several supplement books for this rulebook, such as <Kongo Shinkai (Diamond Realm)>, and the <Tokyo Millenium>. You can see several replay books for this, which is a record of what happened during the game, and what the player characters have said and acted.
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The information of the rulebooks are really interesting. If all of them are canon then perhap we can use the "all powerful demons has a universe surronding them" as a feat.
Also, you can read japanese ? that's cool :3
anyway, we kinda have gone off-topic now. maybe it's best to close this until i got some infor about the Diamond Realm DLC in Apocalypse. For now, i think Abel has better feat for fighting with Lucifer when he was still a human and Metatron when he became King of Bel
Stephen is the coolest character in all of MegaTen man!
Nah, Mara already took that place :3
Also, you can read japanese ? that's cool :3
anyway, we kinda have gone off-topic now. maybe it's best to close this until i got some infor about the Diamond Realm DLC in Apocalypse. For now, i think Abel has better feat for fighting with Lucifer when he was still a human and Metatron when he became King of Bel
Stephen is the coolest character in all of MegaTen man!
Nah, Mara already took that place :3
