Katsuki Bakugou Minor Downgrade

[Damage3245]

Fair enough, though I don't think the tsunami was intended as an attack... And nobody in Class A 'tanked it' since they were all sent flying down the cliff.

 

[Andytrenom]

I am going to properly discuss the tsunami feat when it gets animated till then i will hold off my opinion.

 

[Damage3245]

In relation to this thread about Bakugou, Tomura Shigaraki currently has a City Block rating (both for fighting Aizawa and taking an explosion from Bakugou), yet we can clearly see at the top of his thread that only Bakugou's most powerful explosions tend to be around High 8-C+ and the explosion he used on Shigaraki wasn't indicated to be his most powerful explosions.

If the Aizawa downgrade goes through as well, then Shigraki will have to be downgraded a tier or two.

EDIT: There is also no jusitifcation for Shigaraki having Class 5 lifting strength.

 

[Andytrenom]

We need to decide what level Bakugou's normal explosions are and scale Uraraka accordingly.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't get why Shigaraki has Class 5 Lifting Strength either.

I also don't agree with downgrading Bakugou past what's stated on his calc.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan The calc is for his strongest attack and should not apply to his normal attacks.

It's the same situation as how Todaroki's strongest attack is 8-A but does not apply to his normal attacks.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

Bull.

That was hardly his strongest attack. It wasn't even a named one.

You're all making ridiculous assumptions about Bakugou's maximum power.

 

[Andytrenom]

When Bakugou acknowledged that there is a limit to how much power he can use, he thought back to the explosion that he used in his match against Uraraka as can be seen here .

The explosion also damaged his hand and caused him tremors, which doesn't happen with his normal explosions.

I don't see how claiming the explosion to be his strongest is a 'ridiculous assumption'.

 

[Therefir]

I don't get why Shigaraki has Class 5 Lifting Strength either.

I also don't agree with downgrading Bakugou past what's stated on his calc.

Shigaraki scales from Aizawa, who can throw people several meters in the air with his Capturing Weapon.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

Still not his strongest attack.

He outright says that he needs to risk it all while fighting All Might and he ends up blasting him all the way down the street.

 

[Therefir]

I think his strongest attack is Howitzer Impact.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan Okay here is what your argument sounds like to me "Bakugou went all out when he fought All might therefore, the Blast he used in the Uraraka fight isn't his strongest attack." Am i misunderstanding something? I don't want to want to argue with a staff member if am not sure whether i am the understanding the argument properly.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andytrenom

Just because this explosion causes him discomfort doesn't mean it's his absolute upper limit when he has even better feats like actually hurting All Might and being able to blast him down the street.

That's my point. We shoudn't be looking at Wall level feats when he clearly has much higher feats.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan I just checked, the explosion he used against All Might was the same one he used in the Sports festival Sca. Now whether this refers to the Ochako or the Todoroki fight doesn't really matter all that much. I think this situation is similar to Kirishima vs Rappa , in that both Bakugou and Kirishima were simply using their strongest move multiple times at once.

When did I say we should look at wall levels feats? I only said that the calc for the Super sized explosion should not be assumed to apply for normal explosions

 

[Andytrenom]

About blasting Allmight, Allmight was wearing weights and holding his punches, but this should not make his durability lower than normal. How can we say that making allmight flinch is a high 8-C or 8-B feat and not an outllier 7-C feat?

 

[Damage3245]

@Reppuzan, if you acknowledge that Bakugou's explains can vary from Wall level to City Block level, then could you accept that the explosions Bakugou used on Uraraka were not as strong as the ones he used on All Might and that Uraraka's durability should be revised?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Damage All we know is that the explosions he used against Uraraka were not as strong as the one calced to be High 8-C. Before revising her durabilty we should decide what level Bakugou's regular explosions are. (I know you asked Reppuzan, but I thought I should give my opinion.)

 

[Damage3245]

Well, we know his explosions can destroy desks, blow off clothing and damage the floor so between Wall level and Room sounds fine to me. It's more consistent with the verse.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andytrenom

Still denying this.

His casual explosions can still one-shot fodder villains who have High 8-C feats.

 

[Damage3245]

There's only one fodder villain that has a High 8-C feat. Though we could make a complete guess and say that ones Bakugou defeated are equally strong/durable, that's still a major assumption.

And once again, Bakugou's most powerful explosion used in the fight against Uraraka was High 8-C but he didn't use it against her directly. The explosions that Uraraka 'tanked' are not that powerful.

You already acknowledge his explosions can vary in power. What's unbelievable that he wouldn't use his powerful explosions on her directly? (Even if your logic is that he was fighting seriously the whole time, Bakugou only declared that they should get serious right at the end of the fight when Uraraka passed out).

Saying 'Bakugou wasn't holding back' doesn't mean he was using High 8-C or 8-B explosions directly against Uraraka. It's ignoring the context of Bakugou's power and what it even means for him to be holding back in this case.

EDIT: Can we have a discussion over MHA over the chat or Discord or something? Because doing it in threads like these is taking forever to get any progress.

I don't get why Shigaraki has Class 5 Lifting Strength either.
I also don't agree with downgrading Bakugou past what's stated on his calc.

Isn't what is stated on his calc High 8-C+?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan I am not against Bakugou's normal explosions being high 8-C. I am against the calc of him vapourising the rocks being applied to his normal explosions.

If there is sufficient proof that his normal explosions are high 8-C then I will accept it being high 8-C.

 

[Damage3245]

There's also the issue of the calc being flawed since the rocks weren't vaporized. They were reduced to fragments as evidenced by the next page.

 

[Reppuzan]

Students > Nameless Fodder Villains

Bakugou > Most Students

I don't understand what's so hard about scaling here.

 

[Damage3245]

> Students > Nameless Fodder Villains

That's bad scaling. I don't know if that feat was purely from physical strength or from a Quirk, but that's no reason to scale most students to that feat.

The power of a character doesn't just come from the amount of physical training they do, but their unique ability. Someone like Bakugou, Todoroki of Deku naturally have much more powerful and destructive Quirks so they stand a league above most other students of course.

But just because a random villain was nameless and unimportant doesn't mean he's weak. You can't compare two completely random characters that have nothing to do with each other and say "Well, this guy should totally be weaker than than this guy because he's important while the other guy isn't."

EDIT: The scaling example you gave is almost completely arbitrary. It should certainly not be used on profiles unless there is an actual reason for it.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Also, why keep saying "his strongest attack is just High 8-C?

I don't remember the exact character know, but it had a supposedly "all out attack" at 7-B that harmed a 6-C characters. Sometimes feats of powerscaling > calced feats

 

[Damage3245]

Also, why keep saying "his strongest attack is just High 8-C?
I don't remember the exact character know, but it had a supposedly "all out attack" at 7-B that harmed a 6-C characters. Sometimes feats of powerscaling > calced feats

It's important because if he used a more powerful attack at the end of the fight that was High 8-C, and it's specifically commented on being more powerful, then that means the earlier attacks he used were weaker.

Don't you think that's something important to take into context?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And?

Read the last line. Powerscaling feats > Calced feats (sometimes)

Not because his "strongest attack" was calcd at High 8-C it means it can have feats that gave higher results

 

[Damage3245]

It means that while Bakugou's overall power can be powerscaled later on to be a higher level than his calced feat, that doesn't retroactively change his weaker blasts into being stronger blasts.

Bakugou can be scaled all you like to raise his maximum level, but we know that Bakugou can control the strength of his explosion. Therefore context has to be looked at when evaluating a feat such as Uraraka's durability.

In other words I guess; although Bakugou's maximum AP may be scaled to be much higher, that doesn't affect the AP displayed in the fight against Uraraka.

EDIT: @Reppuzan, should we change Shigraki's Lifting Strength to Unknown or something else?

EDIT2: Also which thread can calcs be requested to be recalced? Because the end result of that calc assumes evaporation (which I assume means all of the rubble was reduced to dust? But this is a false assumption since there was still many fragments left behind from the explosions).

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So.... What's even the problem here? That Uraraka shouldn't 8-B or what?

2) Shigaraki should be At least Peak Human scaling from Deku

3) The calc include pulverization, but it is only 9-A. And Bakugou and Uraraka have higher feats than that just via scaling from fodders

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, Uraraka shouldn't be 8-B.

At least Peak Human for Shigraki sounds fine.

Uraraka doesn't have many durability feats (and seriously, scaling doesn't just mean comparing random characters right? There has to be some basis for scaling and it can't just be "This villain is nameless and unimportant, therefore Uraraka as a student should be much higher.")

 

[Therefir]

Why Shigaraki can't scale from Aizawa's lifting strength?

 

[Damage3245]

Because when has Sharaki been portrayed as equally strong as Aizawa? Their brief fight with each other didn't indicate Shigraki's was comparable in terms of strength; he only inflicted damage on Aizawa by using his Quirk briefly.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Well, they are fodders that were defeated by a 1st year class. Like, any basic hero-students should scale then

 

[Damage3245]

Well, they are fodders that were defeated by a 1st year class. Like, any basic hero-students should scale the

The assumptions here being that:

1) All of the nameless villains were equally strong as each other.

2) Because a student can take down 1 nameless villain, they can therefore take down any of them.

I disagree on the simple basis that a look at the students will quickly show you that they are not all comparable to each other. There is a huge range in strength. Why therefore wouldn't the villains be any different?

EDIT: If one of the students directly took out the High 8-C fodder villain, then you'd have a solid point. But otherwise there is a little basis for scaling.

 

[Therefir]

They scale from Deku and Shinso anyway...

 

[Damage3245]

They scale from Deku and Shinso anyway...

Which I'll get to eventually since that's also based on incredibly bad scaling. One thing at a time of course.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

They were all wall level. But several users and staff agreed that that was too low. So they were upgraded to High 8-C

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, and I think that some, if not most, of the profiles need to be reverted back.

If you need some evidence that most members of the class should not scaled to that High 8-C feat, let's take a look at Tsuyu's reaction to that feat.

Now, could Deku, or Todorki or Bakugou easily replicate this feat and scale to this villain? Yeah, I definitely think so. No doubt about it; their Quirks have been shown to be comparable or superior in attack potency.

Does a student like Mina, Ojira, or Mineta scale to this? Absolutely not.

That's why profiles need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis and not all upgraded just for the sake of it.

EDIT: The logic of all these students being High 8-C physically for one fodder villains feat is flawed because the fodder villain didn't even perform the feat using physical strength. It was a result of his Quirk. They just shouldn't scale without a reason.

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't get why Bakugou being stronger than a high 8-C fooder villain is being used as an argument when the point of this thread was to prove that Bakugou isn't 8-B.

Just to make my stance clear, I would be fine if Bakugou's ratings be revised to 'Large building level normally, Large building level+ with stronger explosions' all i want is for a distinction to be made between regular attacks and all out attacks.

 

[Therefir]

You have to consider a couple of things, Howitzer Impact is already City Block level scaling from his strongest explosions, and people like Todoroki can withstand that attack without dying.