Katekyo Hitman Reborn Upscaling via Black Holes

[Majinere566]

And another aspect is consistency which I think I have it covered due to this not being his only showings of creating A or Numerous black holes

He's done it 3 times in one arc alone and probably more in the next ones


I don't know if that would solve the consistency problem but it's just a thought

 

[YukaSama4]

I'm almost 100% sure that the mftl calc will get rejected, but calc members might know another way of calculating the speed

 

[Qawsedf234]

Object	Mass	Schwarzschild radius	Actual Radius	Schwarzschild density
Sun	1.99×10^30 kg	2.95×10^3 m	7.0×10^8 m	1.84×10^19 kg/m3
Jupiter	1.90×10^27 kg	2.82 m	7.0×10^7 m	2.02×10^25 kg/m3
Saturn	5.683×10^26 kg	8.42×10^−1 m	6.03×10^7 m	2.27×10^26 kg/m3
Neptune	1.024×10^26 kg	1.52×10^−1 m	2.47×10^7 m	6.97×10^27 kg/m3
Uranus	8.681×10^25 kg	1.29×10^−1 m	2.56×10^7 m	9.68×10^27 kg/m3
Earth	5.97×10^24 kg	8.87×10^−3 m	6.37×10^6 m	2.04×10^30 kg/m3
Venus	4.867×10^24 kg	7.21×10^−3 m	6.05×10^6 m	3.10×10^30 kg/m3
Mars	6.39×10^23 kg	9.47×10^−4 m	3.39×10^6 m	1.80×10^32 kg/m3
Mercury	3.285×1023 kg^	4.87×10^−4 m	2.44×10^6 m	6.79×10^32 kg/m3
Moon	7.35×10^22 kg	1.09×10^−4 m	1.74×10^6 m	1.35×10^34 kg/m3
Human	70 kg	1.04×10^−25 m	~5×10^−1 m	1.49×10^76 kg/m3
Planck mass	2.18×10^−8 kg	3.23×10^−35 m (2 lP)		1.54×10^95 kg/m3

I was wrong. A blackhole with the sun's mass would be 3 kilometers in radius.

 

[YukaSama4]

And another aspect is consistency which I think I have it covered due to this not being his only showings of creating A or Numerous black holes

He's done it 3 times in one arc alone and probably more in the next ones


I don't know if that would solve the consistency problem but it's just a thought

I can see the outlier argument against the AP upgrade, but for speed, anything rel/rel+ or even FTL are reasonable, levi who isn't even an impressive character was dodging lightning in the 2nd arc, Tsuna dodged lightning in a filler episode.
And he got many speed amps after that, I mean using the multipliers alone would give rel or sub rel+ result which adds to the consistency of this feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Qawsedf234.

Can somebody link to the calculation or calculations that you need to get evaluated, please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

levi who isn't even an impressive character was dodging lightning in the 2nd arc, Tsuna dodged lightning in a filler episode.

Dodging lightning and being FTL are drastically different things. Even our rather high end accepted lightning speed is still 681 times slower than the speed of light.

 

[YukaSama4]

Thank you for helping out, Qawsedf234.

Can somebody link to the calculation or calculations that you need to get evaluated, please?

Majinere's calc was evaluated and accepted week ago or sth like that, Tetsuya's calc is in the thread but he said he don't know how to make a blog

 

[Majinere566]

Thank you for helping out, Qawsedf234.

Can somebody link to the calculation or calculations that you need to get evaluated, please?

Enma Black Hole Frenzy

vsbattles.fandom.com

So far only one calculation has been made, I'm planning on putting more in a blog but I'm quite busy and don't have access to my laptop currently

 

[YukaSama4]

Dodging lightning and being FTL are drastically different things. Even our rather high end accepted lightning speed is still 681 times slower than the speed of light.

I know, I'm saying that was 200 chapters before and they got many speed amps after that, using the stated and accepted multipliers alone that Tsuna would be sub rel+ or rel iirc which should add to the consistency of this feat right?

 

[Antvasima]

Majinere's calc was evaluated and accepted week ago or sth like that, Tetsuya's calc is in the thread but he said he don't know how to make a blog

Can somebody link to both of them anyway please? Since it is about black holes, it may be safest to ask DontTalk.

 

[Qawsedf234]

iirc which should add to the consistency of this feat right?

It would make it less of an outlier/weird to use.

 

[Antvasima]

Enma Black Hole Frenzy

vsbattles.fandom.com

So far only one calculation has been made, I'm planning on putting more in a blog but I'm quite busy and don't have access to my laptop currently

Thank you.

@DontTalkDT

Can you check if this black hole calculation seems valid please?

 

[Majinere566]

Can somebody link to both of them anyway please? Since it is about black holes, it may be safest to ask DontTalk.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Since I have to be that guy, an Instagram calc link is not considered as a valid piece of evidence to be included on a profile.

It would need to be moved on site first.

Though the speed aspect is still wrong for the site since we don't factor in time dilatation for speed calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, and it only shows a white space to me for some reason.

 

[YukaSama4]

If the speed calc got rejected, I'm pretty sure it would, we should ask DontTalk to suggest another way to calc this feat

Since I have to be that guy, an Instagram calc link is not considered as a valid piece of evidence to be included on a profile.

It would need to be moved on site first.

Yeah he said he don't know how to make a blog lol, I will tell him to copy it and post it here instead.

 

[Majinere566]

I was able to copy it via Google lens

 

[YukaSama4]

I was able to copy it via Google lens

I already sent him a message on discord to post it here

 

[Antvasima]

I was able to copy it via Google lens

Please elaborate.

 

[Antvasima]

I already sent him a message on discord to post it here

Well, somebody could just copy the contents to a blog post in our wiki, and give credit to the original author, if Majinere did not do so already.

 

[Majinere566]

Please elaborate.

Google lens has a feature that let's you copy words off an image but it's not 100% efficient but it's something

I also doubt testyua has the original calc written down because I know the person who made the post and never sent the written part to anyone

 

[YukaSama4]

I also doubt testyua has the original calc written down because I know the person who made the post and never sent the written part to anyone

Tetsuya told me that he made the calc and gave it to him.

 

[Majinere566]

Oh good for him then lmao

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Since I have to be that guy, an Instagram calc link is not considered as a valid piece of evidence to be included on a profile.

It would need to be moved on site first.

Though the speed aspect is still wrong for the site since we don't factor in time dilatation for speed calcs.

Is the size important?

Could it not just be highly dense instead?

Also is size accuracy really that important regarding black holes in fiction if all other properties are correct?

As for your previous remark;

The weird kid in the top hat said "Even getting pulled in once would be the end". So he wasn't past the event horizon yet going by that line.

Isn't it erroneous to say something like this? Wouldn't the fact he did go past the Event Horizon mean he is FTL? That statement doesn't make sense in logical grounding because you're stating "It is impossible to go through the event horizon unless he is FTL, which means he isn't FLT because he is not FTL." But, it seems to be the other way around, there is a lot of evidence to state he is in the event horizon, and that line of logic of this counter-argument doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Thank you.

@DontTalkDT

Can you check if this black hole calculation seems valid please?

Mathematically it's valid. Whether it is valid in terms of black hole standards depends on context.

What happens to the black holes? How strong is their gravity? Things like that.
If they just disappear on their own after some time it might be artificial gravity wells rather than black holes with actual mass (which would be somewhat supported by it being gravity manipulation that creates them).

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is the size important?

For a black hole? Yes. Bigger black holes have more mass.

Could it not just be highly dense instead?

All black holes are dense due to their volume. I posted a large chart of examples.

Also is size accuracy

That's how you get a tier. You need to know their size to get a amount for creation energy.

Isn't it erroneous to say something like this?

I have no idea how you got that.

The event horizon for every black hole is the dark spot within it. Its at that point that light can no longer escape its gravity, which is why its black. The only way to escape the event horizon without a statement is if they physically entered the dark portion of the black hole first. He's not FTL because he was never forced in a situation that would require him to be FTL.

 

[YukaSama4]

What happens to the black holes?

Hmm, I don't remember but one of them was destroyed by Tsuna in that fight.

How strong is their gravity? Things like that.

They were born from spheres, each one has the gravity of a star. and after they collapsed by their gravity, they became black holes.
Both Reborn (famous mathematician in the series) and Gokudera (smart character) said that light can't escape.

The character who created those spheres has the ability to manipulate gravity.

Thanks for responding, we have a question, should escaping these black holes be considered FTL? Because some are arguing that its not because Tsuna wasn't inside event horizon, is it possible to calculate his speed?

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Thanks for the clarification, I'm nowhere near an expert in this.

For a black hole? Yes. Bigger black holes have more mass.

All black holes are dense due to their volume. I posted a large chart of examples.

That's how you get a tier. You need to know their size to get a amount for creation energy.

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying, I was just wondering because I wasn't too sure how it worked.

I have no idea how you got that.

Well, to be fair your statement was extremely vague, and its line of logic did not seem to make any sense,

The weird kid in the top hat said "Even getting pulled in once would be the end". So he wasn't past the event horizon yet going by that line.

You stated this... which is kinda iffy logic-wise. I mean, getting pulled in once into the black hole's center of mass would be the end seems to be the context of this.

Going by the lines that other characters stated and the visuals demonstrated there is more evidence to state Tsuna is in the Event Horizon rather than outside it, at least according to the different qualifications that had to be met for it to be seen as the Event Horizon.

According to all previous sources in this thread an Event Horizon needs to:

1) Bend Space

2) Be invisible

3) Pull the light so it can't come back out in straight lines toward the Black Hole.

All three of these seem to be met where Tsuna is.

The event horizon for every black hole is the dark spot within it. Its at that point that light can no longer escape its gravity, which is why its black. The only way to escape the event horizon without a statement is if they physically entered the dark portion of the black hole first. He's not FTL because he was never forced in a situation that would require him to be FTL.

Either you are incorrect or everyone else in this thread is. Because everyone else in this thread stated the event horizon is an area, not in the center of the black hole -- thus not truly within it -- where light begins to bend toward the black hole and thus cannot go out. The qualifications above being needed to be checked so that it can qualify as one, which as I stated previously, seem to be met.

Sorry if I sounded rude in any way, it was not my intention.

 

[Qawsedf234]

All three of these seem to be met where Tsuna is.

Things are rushing towards it, but he was not based the invisible bubble/the dark zone the signifies the event horizon. Another character mentions that he also cannot escape if he gets caught in it, meaning he hasn't been caught in it yet.

. Because everyone else in this thread stated the event horizon is an area, not in the center of the black hole

I didn't say it was the center of the hole. I said it was the black portion of a black hole and the character was clearly not in there yet.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Things are rushing towards it, but he was not based the invisible bubble/the dark zone the signifies the event horizon. Another character mentions that he also cannot escape if he gets caught in it, meaning he hasn't been caught in it yet.

Well, I'd argue that light does get caught and he is in darkness, after all, the entirety of the area they are fighting in gets suddenly replaced with rays of light rushing toward the black hole. As for the black hole, warm-hole-like structure not swallowing him hole, I'd say that it's more likely that that itself serves as the black hole mass, rather than the event horizon, which would make sense given the rays of light and statement.

I didn't say it was the center of the hole.

My bad, I misinterpreted when you said it was in it then, my bad.

I said it was the black portion of a black hole and the character was clearly not in there yet.

There seems to be some evidence to state he is in the event horizon, not to mention the rays of light that rush toward the black hole, and the space being bent, all of which seem to check the boxes of the Event Horizon requirements.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There seems to be some evidence to state he is in the event horizon,

You have a character directly state otherwise.

 

[Tired_Author_21]

You have a character directly state otherwise.

Statement < What is being displayed

Also, the statement itself is vague and makes a lot more sense if we assume the warm-hole-like entity is the black hole's center of mass. According to previous sources in the thread, the mass in the center of a black hole is so dense, that an infinite amount of speed would be needed to escape, which would make it quite literally the end if he gets hit by it.


I gtg sleep now, have a good day.

 

[Majinere566]

Okay I'm in the position where i can send a message

So the Evidence for it being a black hole is this

• Prior to the black hole Reborn states that Enma's gravity spheres has as much gravity as a star
• He's able to then collapse the aforementioned gravity sphere's turning them into black holes. The author goes out of her way to explain how black holes are formed through reborn. He states that when a star is crushed by it's own gravity it forms a black hole which we see in the panel above
• Light is stated to be unable to escape a black hole

I don't know if this would do any good but it also stated to have it's own magnetism

Is there anyway to calculate the speed to escape a black holes suction?

Mathematically it's valid. Whether it is valid in terms of black hole standards depends on context.

What happens to the black holes? How strong is their gravity? Things like that.
If they just disappear on their own after some time it might be artificial gravity wells rather than black holes with actual mass (which would be somewhat supported by it being gravity manipulation that creates them).

What do you think?

 

[Majinere566]

Also done with more calcs

More Enma Black hole stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Tired_Author_21]

Bump?

 

[Majinere566]

Has it been a day?

 

[YukaSama4]

Has it been a day?

yeah

 

[Majinere566]

Damn that fast?

So for a recap Qawsedf234 thinks the black holes are usable

And Don't talk gave a neutral statement, just waiting for him to explain more

 

[Tetsuya1029]

Mathematically it's valid. Whether it is valid in terms of black hole standards depends on context.

What happens to the black holes? How strong is their gravity? Things like that.
If they just disappear on their own after some time it might be artificial gravity wells rather than black holes with actual mass (which would be somewhat supported by it being gravity manipulation that creates them).

hey there! sorry im late but I am the one who made the calc. If you direct me to where to get the link properly assessed, I'll be glad to submit it there for further inspection. And I have the actual calculation with me copied and pasted in my notes on my laptop now.

 

[Tetsuya1029]

Things are rushing towards it, but he was not based the invisible bubble/the dark zone the signifies the event horizon. Another character mentions that he also cannot escape if he gets caught in it, meaning he hasn't been caught in it yet.

I didn't say it was the center of the hole. I said it was the black portion of a black hole and the character was clearly not in there yet.

hey there! would you like to hop in vc and debate this? I also responded to him and explained to him why his line of logic with "depicting the event horizon" is a moot point when trying to draw said black hole. He hasn't responded to me yet to my knowledge but if you want to read that first and see if that changes your mind. But basically, to sum it up, you can't really draw a black hole (including the event horizon) so I just went ahead and assumed that Tsuna's tip of his toe was the only thing touching the event horizon. You could also logically assume that the edge of the black ring is the event horizon given that that is where enma started to spaghettify in one of the later chapters. Also, we can just ignore the time dilation things. That Instagram post was not posted by me.

But yeah, ultimately, I'd love to have a discussion with you about this topic as my post was not meant to be an all-encompassing guide to the upscale but rather an introduction. The more in-depth stuff I planned to push forward in an actual debate because the number of things to address would make this post comically long.

Tetsuya#4495