Kamijou Touma quick speed revision

[XDragnoir]

Touma has been constantly reacting to Misaka Mikoto's lightning attacks without any effort and he also avoid most of Othinus attacks, here for example:

…The eighth shot overcame the restrictions of the third dimension.

Kamijou felt a static electricity-like spark on his spine and immediately swung his head to the side as hard as he could. An instant later, space suddenly split open and an arrow assaulted the world.

He focused on his trajectory.

The several meter path to Othinus appeared clearly in his head.

…The ninth shot ignored the concept of numbers.

The arrows that fell from above colored the night sky like fireworks and glittered like stars covering the heavens. Every single one of them was fatal, but Kamijou did not freeze up. No matter how torrentially they rained down, there was always a safe space left to step in.

Mikoto's lightning are accepted as real lightning (so a MHS+ feat) and Othinus' arrows scale to her speed so that's a Sub-rel feat.

All that said the only thing his profile says is:

"though he can defend himself from much faster supernatural ranged attacks via Precognition (His Precognition works by unconsciously reacting to the opponent's involuntary movements prior to an attack, so it doesn't work against people like Saints who move too fast for him to react to"

Which is good enough to explain the mechanics of his reaction but not it's limits so it should be changed to "Sub-relativistic reactions against supernatural ranged attacks (reacted to Misaka Mikoto's lightning and Othinus's arrows)" so that those who aren't knowledgeable about Touma's feats and scaling may know from where he gets it and how fast it actually is.

His precog is already explained on detail further down his profile in his notable attacks section so nothing is being lost here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Thing is, reacting via moving before your opponent attacks due to precog doesn't meet the definition of our reaction speed stats.
He essentially aim dodges and, as the speed page says:

For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat.

It also doesn't really make sense as a limiting stats. Fairly sure Touma could dodge an instantaneous attack if he can successfully pseudo-precog it.

 

[XDragnoir]

Thing is, reacting via moving before your opponent attacks due to precog doesn't meet the definition of our reaction speed stats.
He essentially aim dodges and, as the speed page says:

Touma can react to them after they are used, like he did against L6S Mikoto together with Gunha, Touma's precog is literally Instinctive Reaction not Future Sight like most precognition users (for real, precognition isn't even the original name) so it's best feats being given to him in his profile makes sense.

Also, i think Aim dodging would be something like "i see where you point the gun and evade it" but that's not even how Touma does his thing given he doesn't dodge the attacks in the first place, he moves his hand towards them to block them and again, he has moved it after they were fired on a few occasions, including the ones i gave in the OP.

It also doesn't really make sense as a limiting stats. Fairly sure Touma could dodge an instantaneous attack if he can successfully pseudo-precog it.

First, that's literally what indexing is for, we use the accepted limits of each of the character's stats and powers to create their profile, second, what that has to do with anything? Did Touma ever actually do that in-verse? And if he did, what were the circumstances for him to do it? Cause the closest thing i remember to that is the 8th shot from Othinus which was moving but not in normal space so it's not instantaneous, you're saying Touma's blatant feats aren't valid cause he may one day have another feat? Reacting to an instantaneous attack may not even be related to speed, it could be an actual Aim dodge feat or an infinite speed feat, if it never happened in verse how should we know? Or why should we even bother to try to figure out?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Touma can react to them after they are used, like he did against L6S Mikoto together with Gunha, Touma's precog is literally Instinctive Reaction not Future Sight like most precognition users (for real, precognition isn't even the original name) so it's best feats being given to him in his profile makes sense.

Touma's ability is to sense the signs of the attacks before it is happening and react based on those before the attacks happen. That's how he is canonically explained to be able to react to lightning. It does not enable him to move his arm so fast that he can block things after they are fired. The novel is pretty clear about that and him, in general, not being some extremely superhuman guy.

What you bring up regarding blocking L6S lightning is the artist screwing up in a secondary canon depiction and inconsistent with his general placing in the verse. I.e. it's an outlier. He can't move at MHS speed.

Also, i think Aim dodging would be something like "i see where you point the gun and evade it" but that's not even how Touma does his thing given he doesn't dodge the attacks in the first place, he moves his hand towards them to block them and again, he has moved it after they were fired on a few occasions, including the ones i gave in the OP.

That's a technicality. The spirit of the explanation the page gives is clear.

First, that's literally what indexing is for, we use the accepted limits of each of the character's stats and powers to create their profile, second, what that has to do with anything? Did Touma ever actually do that in-verse? And if he did, what were the circumstances for him to do it? Cause the closest thing i remember to that is the 8th shot from Othinus which was moving but not in normal space so it's not instantaneous, you're saying Touma's blatant feats aren't valid cause he may one day have another feat? Reacting to an instantaneous attack may not even be related to speed, it could be an actual Aim dodge feat or an infinite speed feat, if it never happened in verse how should we know? Or why should we even bother to try to figure out?

My point is that, since Touma sees the sign of the attack before it happens and moves before the attack starts in accordance with those signs, the speed of the actual attack is entirely irrelevant for his "reaction". If you give signs where you fire your attack 3 seconds before you do so, Touma will start acting 3 seconds before you fire that attack. Since he will already have moved in position by the time the attack comes, it would be irrelevant how fast the actual attack is at that point. He has already done the movement he needs in those three seconds.

In other words: Touma doesn't keep up with the speed of the attacks as he doesn't react to the attacks. He reacts to the signs that the attack is coming.

 

[XDragnoir]

What you bring up regarding blocking L6S lightning is the artist screwing up in a secondary canon depiction and inconsistent with his general placing in the verse. I.e. it's an outlier. He can't move at MHS speed.

I think it's not? I am sure Touma has fought Mikoto and blocked her lightning in the LN too, and all the feats against Othinus are still above that one against L6S so i can't see how that's an outlier? The fifth shot for example has Touma explicitly moving after the arrow was fired:

…The fifth shot came from directly in front of him.

His movements to the left and right were already sealed off and now Othinus had thrown a straight pitch. For the first time, Kamijou swung his right hand. But not in a straight impact meant to destroy. He scooped his hand up from below, traced his hand along the surface of the arrow, and diverted its trajectory upwards.

 

[XDragnoir]

bump

 

[JBennett]

the example against Othinus is an outlier and can not be used as evidence for an upgrade to his speed, since that battle stated multiple times his specs weren't at Othinus's level but rather him dodging is a form of Pattern memorization, he has died thousands of times to Othinus's attack and that gave him the knowledge to react to her attacks.

The example of Misaka's lightning was explained as him reading AIM ( an involuntary movement), small unconscious actions people make or do that relate to their attacks. Misaka's lightning Spear
"
For example, when the Railgun used her ability, she would give off weak magnetic fields
and electromagnetic waves that would make the metal items around her resonate.
Because of the eventual large explosion, the Railgun herself probably wouldn’t notice
these tiny vibrations like an earthquake’s precursor. ‘To see the invisible magnetic force,
spread iron sand onto it to make it visible to the naked eye’, just like an elementary
school experiment. So, because of these “An Involuntary Movements”, there would be
hints to when the Railgun would attack."
"
For example, the lightning strike.
If it was only high voltage electricity flow, by extending his right hand the lightning
would be attracted onto it, with the right hand acting like a lightning rod.
Also, the iron-sand sword.
Apart from the sword in her hand, the iron sand around her would also change shape
due to the magnetic force. In other words, a ‘visible magnetic path’ would be formed that
could be used to predict where the strike would end up. Depending on the situation, he
could even negate the sword without coming in contact with it just by touching the iron
sand around him.
Sometimes the path to victory would."

So while he is capable of reacting to attacks that reach MHS it is not a matter of perceiving the attack and then reacting to it but rather perceiving the sings of the attack coming and then reacting to it during or before the attack launched.