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Kamen Rider Saber Rewatch Revision (Conceptual Manipulation and High Godly Regeneration)

IxaSaga2

IxaSaga2

He/Him
1,958
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So I went back and watched saber and gathered a bunch of abilities for Saber and co.

Universal:

Non-Physical Interaction with Seiken (Holy Swords and Holy Elements are able to interact with intangible beings. For example, Saber couldn't touch Saikou Shadow but Rekka and it's holy fire was able to hit him. Furthermore, the seiken were able to block and redirect energy attacks. Xross Saber use Rekka, Nagare and Ikazuchi to push an energy slash to put more force behind it)

Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Saber Riders are seen to resist getting suctioned into things. They never got lifted by things such as tornados. Saber, Blades, and, Espada resist getting sucked into a blackhole/wormhole (?). Touma in episode 1 resisted a pitcher plant that was able to detach street signs and benches but Touma remained grounded)

Low-Mid Regeneration (Blades was stabbed through the chest with Kaiji but when he de-transformed his stab wound are gone. Same with Durendal when he was stabbed many times throughout the body. Same with Buster when Slash shot an amplified bullet through his stomach area)

Kamen Rider Saber:

- Transmutation (Xross Saber) (Saber was able to change stones into dog-like creatures)

- Resistance to Fate Manipulation should be moved to Resonated Rekka or Xross Saber (Saber deviated from the the timeline that was meant for him in Solomon Arc)

- Saber needs a new tabber called Wonder Guardian or Post-Wonder Almighty in the civilian tab now.

In this tab, he has these new abilities:

- Low Multiverse Teleportation (can teleport between Earth and Wonder World without a portal)

- Telepathy (Touma was able to telepathically tell everyone on Earth to share their stories so that he can create a new timeline based on those)

- High Godly Regeneration (Touma revived after the Wonder World and Earth merged, destroying both. The Almighty Book along with the entire timeline of Saber destroyed as a result)

- Creation and Resurrection (Saber was able to restore the entirety of Wonder World and Earth as well as revive everyone who was lost in the merging of the two dimensions)

- Conceptual Manipulation (In Saber, stories encapsulate everything in the universe. The pages of the Almighty Book holds every thing that has happened or will happen in the timeline. In the event where the pages were ripped from the Almighty Book, they have changed to Wonder Ride Books. Those books contained information/lore of various legend in textual form which allows Saber Riders to extract power from it. When it come to interpreting Wonder Ride Book nature it usually has double meaning related to each other. For Example, Ocean History holds the record of ocean life but also the flow of time. The user are able to erase time within a certain space, the event happened during time erasure are altered leaving with different result once it over. During the encroachment, the Almighty Book and Wonder Ride Books are destroyed. With Wonder Ride Books including things like Insect Encyclopedia and Ocean History, insects and ocean life have likely also disappeared because they are the books that embodied those beings. This is evident when the whales in Wonder World started to be erased. Alongside those, things like dates as a concept have been erased due to calendars disappearing. The concept of stories were erased by the disappearances of books. Saber once he had Wonder Almighty, which is the second Almighty book, has to make everything from scratch again as well as lay out the future)

- Resistance to Body Control -> Resistance to Body Puppetry

- Elasticity (Primitive Dragon's Talon can extend endlessly)

Saber and Saikou

- Black Hole Manipulation (By combining Kurayami and Saikou, Saber can make a black hole that also sends the target to another dimension)

Solomon and Storious

- Resistance to Black Hole Manipulation (Solomon did not get effected by Saikou's Black Hole stretching his body)
 
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Following, will give my opinion later.

However, most of these abilities lack of scan and explanation so you really need to add them quick, especially Conceptual Mapulation and High-Godly regen since they require concrete evidence.
 
I have most of the scans and stuff put up. However, the scene where Touma revives with all the stories got blocked when i uploaded it. Anyone got a video of that?
 
i have a bit confuss about Acausality 1 and time travel, isn't Kurayami just show Kento the future in the dark world, it said it predict the future and let the user experience the future so i wonder if Kento truly travel time
 
Omazio2019 said:
i have a bit confuss about Acausality 1 and time travel, isn't Kurayami just show Kento the future in the dark world, it said it predict the future and let the user experience the future so i wonder if Kento truly travel time
Click to expand...

Kurayami has both a premonition and a time travel aspect. The user gets a premonition and then the person does their best to change the world. Even Kento said that, he have gone through countless timelines to try to change it.
 
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IxaSaga2 said:
Kurayami has both a premonition and a time travel aspect. The user gets a premonition and then the person does his best to change the world. Even Kento said that, he have gone through countless timelines to try to change it.
Click to expand...
He gone through countless or endless timelines so that mean Saber cosmo is 2B possibily 2A?
 
IxaSaga2 said:
So I went back and watched saber and gathered a bunch of abilities for Saber and co.

Universal:

Non-Physical Interaction with Seiken (Holy Swords and Holy Elements are able to interact with intangible beings. For example, Saber couldn't touch Saikou Shadow but Rekka and it's holy fire was able to hit him. Furthermore, the seiken were able to block and redirect energy attacks. Xross Saber use Rekka, Nagare and Ikazuchi to push an energy slash to put more force behind it)

Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Saber Riders are seen to resist getting suctioned into things. They never got lifted by things such as tornados. Saber, Blades, and, Espada resist getting sucked into a blackhole/wormhole (?). Touma in episode 1 resisted a pitcher plant that was able to detach street signs and benches but Touma remained grounded)

Low-Mid Regeneration (Blades was stabbed through the chest with Kaiji but when he de-transformed his stab wound are gone. Same with Durendal when he was stabbed many times throughout the body. Same with Buster with Slash shot an amplified bullet through his stomach area)

Kamen Rider Saber:

- Transmutation (Xross Saber) (Saber was able to change stones into dog-like creatures)

- Resistance to Fate Manipulation should be moved to Resonated Rekka or Xross Saber (Saber deviated from the the timeline that was meant for him in Solomon Arc)

- Saber needs a new tabber called Wonder Guardian or Post-Wonder Almighty in the civilian tab now.

In this tab, he has these new abilities:

- Low Multiverse Teleportation (can teleport between Earth and Wonder World without a portal)

- Telekinesis (Touma was able to telepathically tell everyone on Earth to share their stories so that he can create a new timeline based on those)

- High Godly Regeneration (Touma revived after the Wonder World and Earth merged, destroying both. The Almighty Book, which has the entire timeline of Saber destroyed as a result)

- Creation and Resurrection (Saber was able to restore the entirety of Wonder World and Earth as well as revive everyone who was lost in the merging of the two dimensions)

- Conceptual Manipulation (In Saber, stories encapsulate everything in the universe. The pages of the Almighty Book holds every thing that has happened or will happen in the timeline. In the event where the pages were ripped from the Almighty Book, they have changed to Wonder Ride Books. Wonder Ride Books like Ocean History includes the history of all of marine life. During the encroachment, the Almighty Book and Wonder Ride Books disappeared. Wonder Ride Books included things like Insect Encyclopedia and Ocean History. With them being gone, insects and ocean life have likely also disappeared because they are the books that embodied those beings. Alongside those, things like dates as a concept have been erased due to calendars disappearing. The concept of stories were erased by the disappearances of books. Saber once he had Wonder Almighty, which is the second Almighty book, remade all those from scratch)

Kamen Rider Calibur and Kamen Rider Espada (Calibur):

- Acausality Type 1 and Time Travel (Kurayami's curse is that if the world ends, the user is reset back to a certain time after they gained Kurayami. Kurayami users retains their memories when the timelines reset after each Earth's destruction)

- Low-Godly Regeneration (Kento was shown to completely disappear alongside the rest of the cast but revived due to Kurayami)

Click to expand...

Agreed as of right now
 
For Concept manipulation i suggest to add: be capable of destroying Orihime wald which is conceptual system itself
 
I think it’s good, we know that everything derived from the Almighty WB and any altercations to the book would directly affect what it altered. Like erasing dates and books itself. So Touma being able to create his own Almighty WB after the original was destroyed should allow his to get conceptual manip imo
 
IxaSaga2 said:
So I went back and watched saber and gathered a bunch of abilities for Saber and co.

Universal:

Non-Physical Interaction with Seiken (Holy Swords and Holy Elements are able to interact with intangible beings. For example, Saber couldn't touch Saikou Shadow but Rekka and it's holy fire was able to hit him. Furthermore, the seiken were able to block and redirect energy attacks. Xross Saber use Rekka, Nagare and Ikazuchi to push an energy slash to put more force behind it)

Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Saber Riders are seen to resist getting suctioned into things. They never got lifted by things such as tornados. Saber, Blades, and, Espada resist getting sucked into a blackhole/wormhole (?). Touma in episode 1 resisted a pitcher plant that was able to detach street signs and benches but Touma remained grounded)

Low-Mid Regeneration (Blades was stabbed through the chest with Kaiji but when he de-transformed his stab wound are gone. Same with Durendal when he was stabbed many times throughout the body. Same with Buster when Slash shot an amplified bullet through his stomach area)

Kamen Rider Saber:

- Transmutation (Xross Saber) (Saber was able to change stones into dog-like creatures)

- Resistance to Fate Manipulation should be moved to Resonated Rekka or Xross Saber (Saber deviated from the the timeline that was meant for him in Solomon Arc)

- Saber needs a new tabber called Wonder Guardian or Post-Wonder Almighty in the civilian tab now.

In this tab, he has these new abilities:

- Low Multiverse Teleportation (can teleport between Earth and Wonder World without a portal)

- Telepathy (Touma was able to telepathically tell everyone on Earth to share their stories so that he can create a new timeline based on those)

- High Godly Regeneration (Touma revived after the Wonder World and Earth merged, destroying both. The Almighty Book along with the entire timeline of Saber destroyed as a result)

- Creation and Resurrection (Saber was able to restore the entirety of Wonder World and Earth as well as revive everyone who was lost in the merging of the two dimensions)

- Conceptual Manipulation (In Saber, stories encapsulate everything in the universe. The pages of the Almighty Book holds every thing that has happened or will happen in the timeline. In the event where the pages were ripped from the Almighty Book, they have changed to Wonder Ride Books. Wonder Ride Books like Ocean History includes the history of all of marine life. During the encroachment, the Almighty Book and Wonder Ride Books disappeared. Wonder Ride Books included things like Insect Encyclopedia and Ocean History. With them being gone, insects and ocean life have likely also disappeared because they are the books that embodied those beings. Alongside those, things like dates as a concept have been erased due to calendars disappearing. The concept of stories were erased by the disappearances of books. Saber once he had Wonder Almighty, which is the second Almighty book, remade all those from scratch)

Kamen Rider Calibur and Kamen Rider Espada (Calibur):

- Acausality Type 1 and Time Travel (Kurayami's curse is that if the world ends, the user is reset back to a certain time after they gained Kurayami. Kurayami users retains their memories when the timelines reset after each Earth's destruction)

- Low-Godly Regeneration (Kento was shown to completely disappear alongside the rest of the cast but revived due to Kurayami)

Click to expand...


Some of the changes are fine for me but i would to point out something:

Do we give Resistance to Gravity Manipulation to every person who can withstand suction force in general, or is there an restraint? I'm pretty sure that resisting being sucked by blackhole are done by LS rather than inherent resistance.

Neutral on Conceptual Manipulation and High-Godly regen because those two things are very controversial, and i feel like you can word CM better.

Kurayami's curse, according to your claims, let the person experiencing the future, right? Then i feel like Low-Godly regen might be little bit of stretch since Kento might just seeing those possible futures rather than outright regen from them.

It's probably because i have yet to watched Saber so i might have taken prejudice against you so i wanna hear your argument on this.
 
Jamesthetaker said:
Some of the changes are fine for me but i would to point out something:

Do we give Resistance to Gravity Manipulation to every person who can withstand suction force in general, or is there an restraint? I'm pretty sure that resisting being sucked by blackhole are done by LS rather than inherent resistance.
Click to expand...
Resisting being sucked into something via LS has to have been holding on to something to actually use it but the riders didn't hold on to anything. Looking at the scene with Touma and Mei, Mei was already off her feet while Touma was grounded. Since it doesn't work on him un-transformed, I suspect its another power of the Wonder Ride Book. (Wonder Ride Book has telekinesis)

Jamesthetaker said:
Neutral on Conceptual Manipulation and High-Godly regen because those two things are very controversial, and i feel like you can word CM better.
Click to expand...
We are going to need mods first.

Jamesthetaker said:
Kurayami's curse, according to your claims, let the person experiencing the future, right? Then i feel like Low-Godly regen might be little bit of stretch since Kento might just seeing those possible futures rather than outright regen from them.
Click to expand...
The person experiences the future and then has to play it out. It was shown in the show pretty clearly. Like kento's life changed because of it. It wouldn't take his life down this road if he knew these were only visions.
 
I've watched back the parts where you guys questioned Calibur's changes. From what I saw, it never clarifies if he actually gone through the timelines. I think one of the translations said, "know matter what I do, the future won't change" which led me to think that he actually went through these visions. In another, it said that he saw countless timelines.

Based on this, I think you guys are right here so I will change it. Kento's int may need to change because of this too.
 
IxaSaga2 said:
Resisting being sucked into something via LS has to have been holding on to something to actually use it but the riders didn't hold on to anything. Looking at the scene with Touma and Mei, Mei was already off her feet while Touma was grounded. Since it doesn't work on him un-transformed, I suspect its another power of the Wonder Ride Book. (Wonder Ride Book has telekinesis)
Click to expand...
I guess that's fair.
IxaSaga2 said:
We are going to need mods first.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and i'm gonna see if there is anything more to Almighty Book.
 
IxaSaga2 said:
Can get this Black Hole Manip?

Click to expand...
Yeah it's also confirmed here
273954223_336746198460279_5138035049120980209_n.jpg
 
Perfect, Solomon would get Res to Black Hole because once he was sucked in, he was fine right after.
 
So i have try to give better explanation to Conceptual Manipulation and here it is:

Wonder Ride Books is collectible device in Kamen Rider Saber. It is the fragment of Almighty Book that created everything in existence.

Those books contained information/lore of various legend in textual form which allow our heroes to extract power from it. When it come to interpreting Wonder Ride Book nature it usually has double meaning related to each other. For example:

Ocean History hold the record of ocean life but also the flow of time and causality. The user are able to erase time within a certain space, the event happened during time erasure are altered leaving with different result once it over.

All of these stories participate in creation of the world. They are what has been written, will be written, or won't. In the case where Almighty Book are destroyed, the concept that those stories embodied are erased as well.
 
Last edited:
IxaSaga2 said:
Universal:
Click to expand...
question, why does it scale to everyone?

IxaSaga2 said:
- Resistance to Fate Manipulation should be moved to Resonated Rekka or Xross Saber (Saber deviated from the the timeline that was meant for him in Solomon Arc)
Click to expand...
can you explain what you mean by this one?

IxaSaga2 said:
- High Godly Regeneration (Touma revived after the Wonder World and Earth merged, destroying both. The Almighty Book along with the entire timeline of Saber destroyed as a result)
Click to expand...
maybe I am missing some verse context, but that doesn't seem like high godly to me at all?

IxaSaga2 said:
- Conceptual Manipulation (In Saber, stories encapsulate everything in the universe. The pages of the Almighty Book holds every thing that has happened or will happen in the timeline. In the event where the pages were ripped from the Almighty Book, they have changed to Wonder Ride Books. Those books contained information/lore of various legend in textual form which allows Saber Riders to extract power from it. When it come to interpreting Wonder Ride Book nature it usually has double meaning related to each other. For Example, Ocean History holds the record of ocean life but also the flow of time. The user are able to erase time within a certain space, the event happened during time erasure are altered leaving with different result once it over. During the encroachment, the Almighty Book and Wonder Ride Books are destroyed. With Wonder Ride Books including things like Insect Encyclopedia and Ocean History, insects and ocean life have likely also disappeared because they are the books that embodied those beings. This is evident when the whales in Wonder World started to be erased. Alongside those, things like dates as a concept have been erased due to calendars disappearing. The concept of stories were erased by the disappearances of books. Saber once he had Wonder Almighty, which is the second Almighty book, has to make everything from scratch again as well as lay out the future)
Click to expand...
I need some elaboration for this too please.

IxaSaga2 said:
- Black Hole Manipulation (By combining Kurayami and Saikou, Saber can make a black hole that also sends the target to another dimension)
Click to expand...
Scans?
 
Confluctor said:
question, why does it scale to everyone?
Click to expand...
Saber Riders scale to each other because where they get their power sources come from the same things which is the Holy Elements, Holy Swords, and Wonder Ride Books.
For Non-Physical, those are done by Holy elements and Holy swords which everyone has.
Res to Gravity Comes from Wonder Ride Book which everyone has.
Regen comes from armor that Holy Swords + Wonder Ride Books make.

Confluctor said:
can you explain what you mean by this one?
Click to expand...
Saber already had Res to Fate Manip but it needed to be moved to fit the story better. He was starting to deviate from his timeline before he got Wonder Almighty. Touma detached his predetermined fate in Almighty Book (which will be explained below) is the reason why he has that resistance.

Confluctor said:
maybe I am missing some verse context, but that doesn't seem like high godly to me at all?
I need some elaboration for this too please.
Click to expand...
Storious in the series killed Tassel who was the Wonder Guardian. Because of Tassel's death, the Wonder World became unstable and started to break apart. Storious's Charybdis Megid ate the barrier that separated Earth and Wonder World which made the unstable Wonder World bleed into Earth. This started to destroy everything in both worlds.

During the encroachment of Wonder World, the Almighty Book was destroyed. Almighty Book basically wrote the whole timeline for the series. It has everything that has happened or will ever happen. Everything was set in stone. So for example: Someone in 2013 wrote a book. Even before the person was born, let's say in 1792, that event is already recorded in the Almighty Book. It was already set in stone that specific person is going to write that specific book. (Which is what happened to Storious)

With that being destroyed, the whole timeline and history was destroyed. Saber was shown to die alongside the rest of history. This is what dying from the encroachment looks like. Saber with Wonder Almighty Book (Which is the successor of Almighty Book) made the whole thing over again the same as the Almighty Book, but one made in his own way.

Confluctor said:
Scans?
Click to expand...
Came from a previous comments
IxaSaga2 said:
Can get this Black Hole Manip?

Click to expand...
Omazio2019 said:
Yeah it's also confirmed here
273954223_336746198460279_5138035049120980209_n.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
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