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kamen rider discussion thread 4

Well, KR and Tokusatsu in general tend to have things get blow up without any pieces left (Vaporisation) and i thought that if that were applied to the feat above then it would give Faiz a higher tier.
 
Yeah well, I'm just telling ya what I last read on the blogs. You're free to give it your take. If possible, try the one against the Elasmotherium Orphnoch as well aye? I've asked about that years ago and it hasn't been done yet.
 
Yeah, i will. Though, i don't think that will change anything since vaporising train yeld a better result.
 
Won't really say it vaporized the entire cargo, considering there were a few rubbles left and those weren't exactly come from the ground due to the explosion. Though you can argue that the Exceed Charge's molecular structure part still apply in that scenario since all Exceed Charge finisher and all its variants still work under the same principle
 
So i have been watching Build lately, an amazing show btw. Then i noticed something: Nearly every fights, the Hazard Level was bring up as Build official scaling system and i think it was true to some degree. Occasionally, weaker characters was able to damage stronger opponents via raising their Hazard Level temporarily through strong emotions.

For examples, Gentoku in the final battle can slightly damage True Evolto enough to forcefully eject Pandora Box panel from him.

So i think that every Build characters should had a "likely higher" via raising their Hazard Level.

Since every Riders in Build can resist the Nebula Gas with higher Hazard Level they should had: Resistance to Gas Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Biological Manipulation (Exposed with Nebulas Gas would immediately be converted into a Smash) and minor Memory Manipulation (Transformed into a Smash will caused the victims to suffer with short-term memory loss)
 
Also, should the 6-A/Continent level rating be scale to every Build Riders? I mean, it shouldn't be scale to him physically and should had it own rating, like:

At least 8-A, 6-A to High 4-C via Black Hole Creation.

Something like that, please tell me your thought on this.
 
I see, Build's Rider profile need some rework, quick.

There is also Evolto absorbing planet and the moon too. Should it scale to his AP?
 
Absorbin the moon is somewhat undwrwhelming compare to his 2 other feats. Beside, we already has him absorbing the Mar (in the scan above), so you could it's size to measure how big Evolt's black hole is
 
Evolt's non black hole finisher doesn't really scale to whatever his black hole level is, which in itself is pretty damn weird in the first place but that's another matter entirely. It's pretty plainly said in his Catasthrope Reactor material that it differentiates between his actual black hole finisher (in which he actually made one) and non-black hole finisher, which is just a plain 50 times stat boost at the time of his finisher initiation

Really the only thing both finishers share in common is that both are called Black Hole Finish and the show can't be arsed to use a different CGI particles to differentiate both. You're going to literally rate something purely from its naming convention and fancy visual if you were to treat them as one and the same
 
Thank for your reply. But i didnt say they are around the same level because the they are having Black Hole in their names tho ^__^" I means, the finishers are Evolt's serious attacks, so they could be comparable to each other in AP.

Also, thank for the Castasophe Reactor's infor. I got curious, when it said "Increase the combat ability by 50 times" does it means the combat ability of the Black Holes or Evolt himself ? Either way, if it's 50 times stronger, can we divide the result of the calc by 50 to measure how strong Evolt normaly is ?
 
Wait, i just re-read the CR description and got myself thinking. Werent the descrition say it's power up Evolt during the finisher ? Means it's 50 times stronger than when he's casually creates the black holes ? And since this Evolt is stronger than the time when he was on Mar for having understanding the human's emotion, wouldnt this make Sento's tanking Evolt's finisher feat even more impressive ??

Really need everyone's opinion on this because maybe i'm just overhyping Evolt at this point (probally because of the coffee this morning)
 
And what is it that you're using as the basis for your statement? Just because it's both a finisher doesn't immediately equate both in power, especially if the material themselves treat them as something different stemming from 2 different type of special attacks. One is a multiplier by a factor of 50 while the other is creating black hole

If his normal attack is 100, then his finisher would be 5000. His black hole would be something that sits around 8000 to 10000 or 20000 or any other higher number. What you're doing right now is literally circular scaling on a backward logic.

Really the only alien you can argue to have that power through sheer strength is Killbus (and probably Genius Evolt) and that's merely a conclusion that can be drawn by applying Occam's Razor simply because we don't know his arsenal in full other than he can punch ***** hard and shoot bigass boom blast, and Cross-ZEvolt by extension since he beat Killbus in earnest
 
That's a pretty weird thing to do, especially since the show and its material never treat them as one and the same. And as i've said, if you're fine with an overinflated gaugement of something based on circular scaling that mostly work off of a backward logic then go ahead
 
Where are you guys getting Evolto's concentrated planetary Black Holes equalling his dark matter kicks from?
 
Anyhow we know his black hole when harnessing pandora tower can either totally wipe out the entire civilization on a planet or devour the entire planet straight up, and we know it'll work on at least Mars and Earth so that's a pretty solid general gauging of his black hole power without going into other tangent like whether the nature of his black hole counts as a legitimate one or not or some other *****
 
Which will only gave him an "at least planet level, possibly higher" tag as we still don't know how much boost he'd get from absorbing one in relation to direct quantifiable powerlevel. His boost from absorbing a celestial body wouldn't warrant a hard, higher tiering all on its own
 
@EMS sorry for the late reply, has been busy on my side. And i argreed that i was kinda exaggerate Evolt's power amp, sorry. But the thing is, if Evolt can casually give enough output energy to creates a black hole, then it's make no sense that he cant use that much output energy in a fist fight, that's why alot of profile has been treating the amount of energy from the calc as their AP. Hell, if the black hole moves are so powerful then it's make zero sense why Evolt doesnt used it in Kibus fight.

And yeah...come to think about it, his black hole on Mar probally just Evolt harnessing Pandora's box power, but we can still use the black hole Evolt used to devour Touto's Goverment's headquarter to calculate, i suppose.

And i still believe his Black Hole Finish punch should be scaled to the Black Hole Finish black hole summon. Both of them come from the Black Hole Finish series while one is wide area attack, the other is concentrated into a single punch, it doesnt make any sense if one is stronger than the other while they are both finisher from a same series and both of them are used pretty casually by Evolt without any hint of seriousness.

@Jag i'm pretty sure the attack is not Dark-matter concentrated since the source material said it's a black hole

"Evol delivers a punch covered in purple energy that creates a small black hole upon impac"

Yes and the actual ones he does spam are the ones that the Build team has NEVER been able to stop or do anything about.

i dont think they could do anything to a black hole that continuing absorb everything around it other than punching the source that creates the said black hole (Evolt).


You know what, this is just me speaking up my mind. I will gladly drop all of this if we can come to an argreement.
 
Since when can Phase 1 Evolto do Black Holes? He was only in Phase 1 during the Killbus battle.
 
Jag50 said:
Since when can Phase 1 Evolto do Black Holes? He was only in Phase 1 during the Killbus battle.
Click to expand...
Sento said their experiment to save Banjou would fully restore Evolt back to full power, and the end of the movie show he can choose any form he want to appear (he turned into his strongest form in the end)
 
Well, i'm gonna be away from wiki for a while because the final exam reasons. So cant stay discuss about this. But if you guy dont feel like applies Evolt's black hole creation feats as his AP, feel free to seperate them into physical AP and black hole creation AP. O3O/
 
Whomever is applying unevaluated calcs to Kamen Rider profiles, I'm going to have to ask you to stop. Get those calcs evaluated before applying them.
 
So, a few days ago i was doing my analysis on Build scaling and here how it goes:

Level 3-4 : 8-A scaling to most Riders.

Level 4.4, 4+: 8-A, likely higher at this level they can matches or injure stronger characters.

Level 5: 8-A, possibly 6-A via scaling to Evolto, implying that this level they can somewhat matches against Evol Cobra form at most.

Level 7: 6-A via scaling to Evol Black Hole, at this level they can go all out against him.
 
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