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Kaguya's Immortality

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@Reppuzan

I seriously proved this on your message wall, the proof you asked for.

Kaguya's Unstable Juubi Form is madevof pure chakra and we see her recreate her body from pure chakra. This denial is absurd.

You know, Naruto's BM is a chakra avatar portrayed the same as Kaguyas unstable firm yet neither are specifically stated to be chakra. They are portrayed as Kishi has portrayed chakra for nearly 400 chapters if not the entire Manga.
 
Except that, we see the chakra being absorbed by it, and we see it being restructured . Just admit that you're denying it ...

You are treating her feat, as if she had never regenerated her arm and her unstable body at the same time, by a transformation of a monster made of pure chakra. What they are saying, it is as if she regenerates only her arm and only him ... As said, if this is not a up in your Regenerationn, then it is a up in your immortality.
 
Madara clearly hasn't finished regenerating. When he launched the TSB at Guy he still had a noodle for an arm, and when Naruto kicks it back, we can only see the sleeve of that arm.

Backed by his very obvious implication that he wasn't healing yet.

I'm still not seeing a low godly regen / type 9 immortality argument, especially when Obito, the only person who's actually done what you're speculating Kaguya did, returned to his body as chakra from limbo, and he was still a pile of ashes. Kaguya never died, so why would her soul be in another realm?
 
MostPowerfull said:
Except that, we see the chakra being absorbed by it, and we see it being restructured . Just admit that you're denying it ...

You are treating her feat, as if she had never regenerated her arm and her unstable body, by a transformation of a monster made of pure chakra. What they are saying, it is as if she regenerates only her arm and only him ... As said, if this is not a up in your Regenerationn, then it is a up in your immortality.
Click to expand...
LOL absorbing Chakra doesn't mean she is made of charkra.
 
LOL absorbing Chakra doesn't mean she is made of charkra.

Except for the fact that, after that, she created a gigantic TSB and there it was creating it, its form to "destroyed" and was mixed to the chakra that was being absorbed and as far as I know, the TSB is made of chackra, and the chackra remnants were from where it returned.

This is also supported by the fact that, Bijuus are physical forms of chakra. So if that was not his "physical form" then it was his "bijuu" form.

Bijju = Chackra.
 
@Most

But Bijuu are physical forms that can be physically damaged. Even they're made of chakra, we don't say they have Low-Godly Regen.

It could be Kaguya simply reverting to her original form while separating herself from the chakra that was rampaging within her, there's no indication of Regenerationn since she was never damaged.
 
@Barry

But they are also informed, you are still alive, even if your soul is erased and this is not the case with a Kaguya.
 
@Most

Scans of this now. I don't recall a single instance of this and I've read the entire manga.
 
@Unite My Rice

  • In that last panel you can't see if Madara finished or not thus you're speculating.
0672-015


^Tell me where Madara is shown Still Regenerating or if you're speculating he is. Because when Naruto attacks him, he's pondering at first if he isn't then realizes that isn't the case and Naruto just got stronger. And even if he wasn't, its one movement my dude.

And the immortal argument is for if Kaguya where to reduced to ash like Obito.
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Barry

But they are also informed, you are still alive, even if your soul is erased and this is not the case with a Kaguya.
Click to expand...
Who in the history of Naruto regenerated from a destroyed soul?.
 
@Barry

For the umpteenth time, Obito did not regenerate. He was still dead, he just transported his soul back from the other side long enough to possess Kakashi.

Nor did Kaguya regenerate from anything because she wasn't injured in the first place.
 
@Reppuzan

But they were never destroyed or shown regenerating their body through the chakra, as Kaguya did. What is said is that even if they are dead, they can rise again after a time.

If she did, it would be like Naruto and Killer B, especially Naruto, who already had his physical form destabilized by his Bijju because your emotions and he never came back as Kaguya. So, no ... This has happened before ( A carrier having the Bijuus destabilized within itself ), and what happened with Kaguya, does not happen to anyone.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Barry
For the umpteenth time, Obito did not regenerate. He was still dead, he just transported his soul back from the other side long enough to possess Kakashi.

Nor did Kaguya regenerate from anything because she wasn't injured in the first place.
Click to expand...
@Rep

Likewise, for the umpteenth time, I never said obito regenerated.

And as far as Regenerationn goes, fine, on a technicality it wouldn't be considered Regen if she were to come back from the dead and recreate her body from chakra but what would that be considered? Just pure resurrection?

Or simply a type of immortality.
 
Type 9 is defined as this:

Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.


I.E. Kaguya's soul would exist independently from the physical plane where her body can be destroyed.
 
@Joseph

@Reppuzan and other

Pay attention to the context. Barry is saying that ...

Once Obito was able to leave the Pure World through his Kamui ... Kaguya would also be able to leave the Pure World if she were killed by her Hirasaka, correct? So far we're well ...

And since Obito was able to produce a form of chakra to possess Kakashi, then Kaguya could produce it too, right? So far we're well?

And as Kaguya regenerates from Chackra, she could simply regenerate her body, IF SHE CAN GET OUT OF THE PURE WORLD. That's what Barry is saying.
 
@Most

You guys are impossible.

Coming back from the Underworld is not Regenerationn.

Nothing in the story says that Kaguya's body was converted into pure chakra.

These are two things you cannot refute whatsoever.
 
@Most

NO for everything you said. You're pushing this headcanon WAY TOO FAR. Stick with the displayed feats ok?
 
@Reppuzan

I think you're just being misunderstood.

I never said that, in fact, I find this very speculative. I just explained what Barry meant.

Fact you're trying to deny. His form was destabilized, just as Naruto's was, and if this is not Regenerationn or immortality, the same should happen to Naruto. So any argument you could use to reject this no longer exists.

So ... As long as you do not show me the fact, that you really explain and deny the fact that Kaguya did not come back from Chackra, AS SCAN SHOW, you can not deny the fact that she has regenerated herself from chackra.
 
@Barry

Just because a chakra ghost is summoned and sustained by chakra doesn't mean that Kaguya suddenly gets regen for an event that didn't happen.
 
@Most

The scans do not show that. Find a single statement of Kaguya converting her entire body into chakra.
 
@Joseph

I never said I agree with what Barry said, in fact, I think Low-Godly is too much and I'm advocating Kaguya being Mid-High at least.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Most
The scans do not show that. Find a single statement of Kaguya converting her entire body into chakra.
Click to expand...
@Reppuzan

@Joseph

Better than a statement, I have a feat SHOWN and this is enough . It is not re-stabilization of his body, as I showed in the passage with Naruto. It is not Regenerationn. It is not immortality. What is it then?
 
MostPowerfull said:
@Joseph
Click to expand...
Okay and this is enough . It is not re-stabilization of his body, as I showed in the passage with Naruto. It is not Regenerationn. It is not immortality. What is it then?

Where is the statement? It's a transformation, not regen. She was not vaporized completely, nor blown to pieces
 
Where is the statement? It's a transformation, not regen. She was not vaporized completely, nor blown to pieces

Yes, that is, he needed to have his body stabilized again, by itself, correct? Now, explain to me why Naruto also had his body destabilized and transformed, and what happened to Kaguya did not occur to him.

If this was just a transformation, Kaguya would not have to "destroy" and come back from a mass of 'something', which was coming out, after its hybrid form was 'destroyed'...
 
@Reppuzan

The real undesputable facts:

  • Souls Exist as chakra on the physical planes (Shown by every instance in the manga, especially in 691).
  • Souls can return from the afterlife/Limbo with S/T techniques (Proven and Stated by Obito in certain terms, Hagoromo Via himself and Summoning).
  • Kaguya Reformed her body from pure chakra after going unstable (Proved this on your page).


You want to say Kaguya doing this wouldn't be regen, then what do you call someone who can get their body reduced to ash or erased completely and return to the physical realm from another plane of existence and recreate their body from the energy they exist as?


And note, saying Kaguya's Unstable Juubi form isn't chakra or dispersed into chakra and reformed back into her regular body is tantamount to saying Naruto Kyuubi avatar isn't Chakra at all due to never being stated as such despite being heavily portrayed as such.
 
BarryAllen2.0 said:
@Unite My Rice
  • In that last panel you can't see if Madara finished or not thus you're speculating.
Click to expand...
Madara clearly says "Is it because I haven't finished healing? No.." Implying that even though he is still healing, that shouldn't be the reason why he appears so weak to Naruto. It's simple context. Even the very next scan after Naruto kicks the TSB shows that Madara clearly didn't finish regenerating.

So that's debunked.

2. Nobody has ever come from the afterlife and reconstructed their body. Kaguya is literally the poster child of what doesn't qualify as type 9 immortality.

"Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed. For example, a conceptual being doesn't die even if its body, soul, etc will be erased from existence."


Kaguya's body and soul are both on Earth. Debunked. I don't even think anyone in the verse fits the bill for "their true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed." Their true selves are their bodies, or their chakra. If they die, their chakra simply goes to the next realm.

" Can come back from another realm existing as a chakra entity > Reform your physical body from pure chakra state which your soul exists as which you feat proves you can do."


This makes no sense. Like I said, the only person who has came back to their body was Obito, and he was in limbo, not the afterlife, and his body was still destroyed. Even the SoSP came back through the tailed beasts or however the hell he did it, with no body. Once again, Obito was the only person shown to come back from limbo (nobody was shown coming from the afterlife), and the rest come back from edo tensei.

Even if you use that reforming from chakra argument, she's only done so while she was missing an arm. You have no evidence that she would be able to regen her entire body, or her head, so at best, it's a showing of low-mid regen.
 
@Barry

Posting a completely different and irrelevant page is not helping your case.

Just because it looks like chakra doesn't mean she is chakra. She could just as easily be giving off chakra rather than becoming chakra.

It's never explained how Hagoromo returned, and you are once again making assumptions on how he did so.

Calling your arguments facts when they have no basis within the story itself is just making me more and more willing to just take this to a Staff thread because this is going in circles and I'm becoming less and less tolerant of your needless grasping at straws.
 
To assume that he was giving off chackra out, besides not being seen up on manga is impossible, as we see him return from it. She has returned from what appears to be chakra.

In case, really this time, I agree with Barry. If it looks like chackra is not the same as being chackra, show us since chackra really did not look like chackra. The scan shown by Barry really implies that you are saying that, that in Naruto's hand is not chackra, because it is not stated.

About Hagoromo... You need to this panel?
 
@UMR

  • Madara's statement does say what you're pushing. He doesn't STATE he's healing. When he states "No?!" At the end of that sentence, it makes the line ambiguous. Sure he could have meant it the way you're pushing but he also have mean "No, I'm healed, he's just gotten stronger!". Thus it's ambiguous and speculative. The "No?!" Again makes it so you can't say in certain terms which way.
We see he's already regened his entire Side/Arm that Gai blasted off when he blocks and makes that statement.


  • I'll concede my argument on Type 9 Immortality, that's not a big problem. But as far as coming back from the "afterlife/Limbo" it's the same shit. And no, read 691 again a few times. Hags summoned the past Kages from the afterlife, Non-Edo which proves what Obito said, Chakra connects the two or three realms. And yes, while Obito is the 2nd to do so, his statement is backed by his feat which proves, S/T Jutsu allows for travel between the two.


  • Your final point is pure nonsense, not worth even dignifying with a proper response.
 
Reppuzan said:
As Prom said, she's simply reverting from her Tailed Beast form back to her original form.

There's no indication that's she's regenerating or that she was converted into pure chakra in the first place.

I won't deny that she has Regenerationn, but the idea that she was broken down into pure chakra is nothing but a headcanon.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.
 
It's obvious that he didn't finish healing, there's no ambiguity or speculation about it. He's simply saying the fact that he didn't finish healing is not the cause of their apparent difference in power.

And I do think I said that last part oddly so let me rephrase. Kaguya hasn't suffered half as much damage as the Juubi Jinchuurikis did. Whatever turned her into her unstable Juubi form made her stronger, faster, and gave her a new arm. There's no evidence that she could survive the bodily harm that Madara and Obito received, therefore it's speculation to assume if she was beheaded or bisected, she'd just turn into that and get a brand new body. We don't know the extent of her immortality, but from what's shown, she only has type 1.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Barry
Posting a completely different and irrelevant page is not helping your case.

Just because it looks like chakra doesn't mean she is chakra. She could just as easily be giving off chakra rather than becoming chakra.

It's never explained how Hagoromo returned, and you are once again making assumptions on how he did so.

Calling your arguments facts when they have no basis within the story itself is just making me more and more willing to just take this to a Staff thread because this is going in circles and I'm becoming less and less tolerant of your needless grasping at straws.
Click to expand...
  • Its not irrelevant because that's what your argument amounts to. "It's not stated to be chakra thus it's not even if it looks like chakra". <Basically your argument in a nutshell...oh, and you're blatantly disregarding factual proof straight from the manga, so there's that.
  • Nah, bruh. That's never been the case, especially when we see Kakashi Kamui her arms, it's flat out pure chakra dude, no different than Kyuubi avatar. You're just reaching at this point. How about you show me proof now of something similar as to what you're claiming and i'll concede.
  • Is it, and am I?
0686-001


0688-003


^Self explanatory.


  • You have done NOTHING but deny this and deny that and fail to furnish A SHRED OF PROOF on your behalf. Even upon acknowledging that Kaguya is in a chakra state, oh wait..."She may be giving off chakra and is not chakra herself". You set the bar at one location and now you're moving the goal post higher and higher still without furnishing proof yet....I'm doing it? Laughable, Rep. How about you pony up proof and stop denying what is on the scans.
 
Unite My Rice said:
There's no evidence that she could survive the bodily harm that Madara and Obito received, therefore it's speculation to assume if she was beheaded or bisected, she'd just turn into that and get a brand new body.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact, of her to be able to regenerate all its body through the chackra.
 
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