Junko Enoshima vs Lupin III

[Detective_Blizzard]

Ultimate Despair vs Ultimate Thief
Junko Enoshima vs Lupin III

A battle between two Extraordinary Geniuses
One wishes to destroy the world's hope
The other wishes to steal it all for himself

Battle Conditions:​

• Fight takes place in a unoccupied Hope's Peak Academy before the Tragedy
• Lupin starts outside the school by the front gate, knows the layout of the school, the list of Ultimate Talents that live in the school, and that Junko is the Ultimate Despair who intents to create the worst tragedy in human history
• Junko starts in the headmaster's office, knows someone called Lupin III claims to be the Ultimate Thief and is attempting to stop her plans, and that they are currently somewhere on school grounds.
• Neither know the others' exact location
• Win Condition is to defeat the other via any means
• Both are 9-A
• Speed Equalized

"Just how many lives are you planning to toy around with?": @Stillwinston @Detective_Blizzard

"Ugh, that again? You have any idea how many times people ask me that shit?":

Zenigata somehow arrests them both with Togami's funding (Inconclusive):

 

[Stillwinston]

I did this a long while ago iirc and Junko stomped via precog, though some changes to Lupin seem to make this interesting. Is Junko's despair stuff layered or not? If not Lupin might just say no to despair gg

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I did this a long while ago iirc and Junko stomped via precog, though some changes to Lupin seem to make this interesting. Is Junko's despair stuff layered or not? If not Lupin might just say no to despair gg

From what I'm aware Junko's isn't, but even if it was Lupin now also has Multiple Selves in order to add extra protection to it

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Also the fight is different since Junko doesn't have Monokumas and Lupin actually has equipment to use

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay so imma assume Jumko can't SI her way to a win here, what can Lupin do vs her precog?

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Okay so imma assume Jumko can't SI her way to a win here, what can Lupin do vs her precog?

While he doesn't have an outrite resistance to it, he has faced analytical precognition several times and has tactics for it. His most effective one is simply just predicting himself and then proceeding to do completely different things or feinting an action for something else such as ricocheting a bullet to hit a different target.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

le bump

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

bump

 

[Stillwinston]

While he doesn't have an outrite resistance to it, he has faced analytical precognition several times and has tactics for it. His most effective one is simply just predicting himself and then proceeding to do completely different things or feinting an action for something else such as ricocheting a bullet to hit a different target.

Hmmmm that does sound like a decent counter ngl. Junko does have that stonewall dura though which might be an issue.

Atm I'm gonna vote Incon, leaning to possibly Lupin if a convincing argument can be made. Skill wise I'd say they're probably even, Lupin can fight Goemon who is pretty much like something out of Sekiro skill wise. Whereas Junko should be comparable to Mukuro last I checked. Idk what the ap is but I assume they're comparable

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Hmmmm that does sound like a decent counter ngl. Junko does have that stonewall dura though which might be an issue.

The stonewall durability can be countered via Lupin's sleep bombs, his threads (better Lifting Strength goes brrrr), or via creating different types of durability negging tools via the various rooms in Hope's Peak that allows it. Hell he could even use his own mind control if the situation is planned well enough.

Atm I'm gonna vote Incon, leaning to possibly Lupin if a convincing argument can be made. Skill wise I'd say they're probably even, Lupin can fight Goemon who is pretty much like something out of Sekiro skill wise. Whereas Junko should be comparable to Mukuro last I checked. Idk what the ap is but I assume they're comparable

Skill wise Lupin is noticeably better, Mukuro can effortlessly block attacks from Junko and the only one-ups Junko has in that regard is Mukuro's own in-character weakness to her. Lupin meanwhile has a much longer track record in the fighting department and has fought fighting masters countless times. The main advantage Junko has is the analytical intelligence and adaptive nature of her own, since she is highly adaptive and can counter most of Lupin's stuff via sheer prediction.

Ap wise Junko is decently above Lupin, though unquantifiable. She upscales a fair bit above 0.039 tons vs Lupin's 0.033 Tons, though this is less of a concern since Lupin doesn't run in punching and prefers to dodge attacks. Which even with prediction is going to be hard for Junko to land a hit due to Lupin's better experience + senses.

I personally think Lupin wins this since while he's likely to fall for the precog early, it won't take long for him to catch onto it and then proceed to use his higher overall intelligence to figure out whatever flaws Junko currently has and exploit it for a win or trick Junko into a scenario where there's just a 0% chance of winning regardless of what she does. His odds of winning just start snowballing rapidly after first encounters in general

 

[Bruhtelho]

Okay so imma assume Jumko can't SI her way to a win here, what can Lupin do vs her precog?

Junko's SI is also Madness Manipulation (Type 1 and 2) something Lupin has no resistance towards, the only way to break out of despair is to be the Ultimate Hope, something Lupin is not.

While he doesn't have an outrite resistance to it, he has faced analytical precognition several times and has tactics for it. His most effective one is simply just predicting himself and then proceeding to do completely different things or feinting an action for something else such as ricocheting a bullet to hit a different target.

Junko analytical prediction is borderline precognition and we quite literally accept it as such on the wiki on top of giving her information analysis meaning that as soon as the fight beings, Junko is gonna know possibly everything about Lupin to his personality, abilities, thoughts, and history meaning Lupin can't do much that Junko isn't already expecting

From what I'm aware Junko's isn't, but even if it was Lupin now also has Multiple Selves in order to add extra protection to it

Multiple Selves doesn't grant any resistance to Madness Manipulation, well Lupin does resist her SI to some degree, he doesn't resist the byproduct of it and Junko sees Lupin once and well know about it meaning she'll easily plan for it.

Atm I'm gonna vote Incon, leaning to possibly Lupin if a convincing argument can be made. Skill wise I'd say they're probably even, Lupin can fight Goemon who is pretty much like something out of Sekiro skill wise. Whereas Junko should be comparable to Mukuro last I checked. Idk what the ap is but I assume they're comparable

Junko is no where near Mukuro in skill, shes a character who relies on her Ultimate Analyst and Fashionista to outsmart her opponents, shes perfectly able to predict how the killing games events and even the entire Tragedy as whole which began to bore her and given she can quickly learn the talents of other holders by simply watching, their is no doubt in my mind that she'd be able to replicate what Lupin can or would do to her advantage just like she did with Chihiro's technology or Ryota Mitarai work

I personally think Lupin wins this since while he's likely to fall for the precog early, it won't take long for him to catch onto it and then proceed to use his higher overall intelligence to figure out whatever flaws Junko currently has and exploit it for a win or trick Junko into a scenario where there's just a 0% chance of winning regardless of what she does. His odds of winning just start snowballing rapidly after first encounters in general

Junko leaves incredibly tiny holes in her plans to allow her to fail, it took the ultimate detective several days to even deduce who Junko was and the only way Junko ever gave up was "if she could fall into despair herself" something like an Incap wouldn't allow her to do so she isn't gonna allow that to happen. her influence alone caused people to kill others or even themselves without much effort from her.

Junko is gonna know about quite literally EVERYTHING Lupin can or will do towards her from the multiple selves to predicting himself, she'll plan for it and make him fall for despair and the fact that shse hidden from him at the start means she could likely find a way to make him even watch the despair video which is Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation and Morality Manipulation all in one simple video that'll end the fight immediately.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Junko's SI is also Madness Manipulation (Type 1 and 2) something Lupin has no resistance towards, the only way to break out of despair is to be the Ultimate Hope, something Lupin is not.

Lupin's SI resistance doubles as a resistance towards mind control and is extra protected with Multiple Selves. Also her SI only has type 2 since the type 1 comes from manual brain modification so yeah her normal despair stuff isn't going to work

Junko analytical prediction is borderline precognition and we quite literally accept it as such on the wiki on top of giving her information analysis meaning that as soon as the fight beings, Junko is gonna know possibly everything about Lupin to his personality, abilities, thoughts, and history meaning Lupin can't do much that Junko isn't already expecting

Funny story, when I said Lupin had counters to analytical prediction, I ment Junko's brand

Lupin was able to counter an AI known as PeopleLog, which has practically everything Junko does in terms of precognition. With a simple scan of someone's face it's capable of finding out everything about them, what their opinions and thoughts are, and unknown factors such as their future actions, possible whereabouts, and current disguises. Lupin was able to trick that type of precog when almost every human in the world had it (it was a phone app)

Multiple Selves doesn't grant any resistance to Madness Manipulation, well Lupin does resist her SI to some degree, he doesn't resist the byproduct of it and Junko sees Lupin once and well know about it meaning she'll easily plan for it.

Her madness manipulation is a form of mind manipulation, so it can. And Junko planning for it would be extremely difficult since even a character who's social influence is so good that they can completely rewrite a person's entire personality and life needed like 60 years to counter it. Which included getting 9 completely separate women each whom appeal to Lupin is a different way, all of whom spoke different languages. Junko isn't bypassing that aspect of Lupin in any form of combat scenario especially since I don't even know if she speaks anything other than Japanese.

Junko is no where near Mukuro in skill, shes a character who relies on her Ultimate Analyst and Fashionista to outsmart her opponents, shes perfectly able to predict how the killing games events and even the entire Tragedy as whole which began to bore her and given she can quickly learn the talents of other holders by simply watching, their is no doubt in my mind that she'd be able to replicate what Lupin can or would do to her advantage just like she did with Chihiro's technology or Ryota Mitarai work

Replicating Lupin's skills is possible, but Junko needs to see it in action in order for her to learn from it. So Lupin would have to use his tricks first in order for Junko to replicate it, which means if he uses one of his anti-precog tactics he would just knock her out before she could replicate it. It also doesn't help that Junko can't copy everything Lupin has (she isn't copying any of his physical traits nor his toon force nonsense) and even if she copies them, Lupin has far more experience fighting against people with his type of equipment before so it's not even a big advantage for when she does get it.

Junko leaves incredibly tiny holes in her plans to allow her to fail, it took the ultimate detective several days to even deduce who Junko was and the only way Junko ever gave up was "if she could fall into despair herself" something like an Incap wouldn't allow her to do so she isn't gonna allow that to happen. her influence alone caused people to kill others or even themselves without much effort from her.

Lupin effortlessly stands above Kiyoko's detective work, he's capable of solving mysteries that advanced alien civilizations couldn't solve in thousands of years. Dude is smart enough that he could quite literally steal several ultimate titles away from various other characters. Also Junko would still intentionally leave an opening for her to lose since her defeat would cause herself despair. And again Tomoe does similar stuff with her influence with similar effort, her rewriting a maid's personality and life caused the maid to effectively commit suicide

Junko is gonna know about quite literally EVERYTHING Lupin can or will do towards her from the multiple selves to predicting himself, she'll plan for it and make him fall for despair and the fact that shse hidden from him at the start means she could likely find a way to make him even watch the despair video which is Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation and Morality Manipulation all in one simple video that'll end the fight immediately.

Lupin was capable of tricking an AI that could do that exact same thing. Also again the despair video is practically a lesser form of what Tomoe does, Tomoe after 60 years quite literally bypassed all of Lupin's mental defenses, turned him into a cold hearted killing machine with no remorse for his friends or allies, and he just broke out of it. The despair influence has nothing on him.


The ultimates of Danganronpa in general aren't that impressive to Lupin outside of the combat related ones for specifically combat skill. He faces smarter characters countless times and Junko is the only one who is even on a smart enough level to even compare to Lupin's top dogs

 

[Bruhtelho]

Her madness manipulation is a form of mind manipulation, so it can. And Junko planning for it would be extremely difficult since even a character who's social influence is so good that they can completely rewrite a person's entire personality and life needed like 60 years to counter it. Which included getting 9 completely separate women each whom appeal to Lupin is a different way, all of whom spoke different languages. Junko isn't bypassing that aspect of Lupin in any form of combat scenario especially since I don't even know if she speaks anything other than Japanese.

so she has no win-condition then. she doesn't rely on cqc to win and Lupin resist all of her abilities that could net her a win, shes just a sitting duck in this matchup.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

so she has no win-condition then. she doesn't rely on cqc to win and Lupin resist all of her abilities that could net her a win, shes just a sitting duck in this matchup.

No, she has win conditions. Lupin is prone to being caught off guard and while Junko doesn't always rely on CQC, her prediction skills would be able to tell her that she's more than capable of just decimating him in a physical fight and it's not unheard of for her to just grab a weapon and start attacking with it or just use her own hands to kill someone.

Her main win conditions are catching Lupin off guard and using her stat advantages for a win, or alternatively adapting to Lupin enough that she's able to use one of the many things in Hope's Peak to catch him lacking (she would learn new win cons by seeing Lupin's gear). Basically Junko has advantages short term, Lupin has advantages long term

Plus, you know, she legit stonewalls most of Lupin's moveset

 

[Bruhtelho]

Her main win conditions are catching Lupin off guard and using her stat advantages for a win, or alternatively adapting to Lupin enough that she's able to use one of the many things in Hope's Peak to catch him lacking (she would learn new win cons by seeing Lupin's gear). Basically Junko has advantages short term, Lupin has advantages long term

something Junko quite literally never does in-character. fighting is not her thing at all its why she hides behind the monokuma for the entire game, Junko never engages in CQC and uses her mind and despair to win which is something she can't do her, "stat advantage" is cool and all but Lupin dances circles around her in h2h combat its not even funny. Lupin quite literally has a resistance to most of his own gear so Junko using it against him is pointless and he could quite literally just hack into the camera system Junko would use to watch him and prevent her from seeing what hes doing

No, she has win conditions. Lupin is prone to being caught off guard and while Junko doesn't always rely on CQC, her prediction skills would be able to tell her that she's more than capable of just decimating him in a physical fight and it's not unheard of for her to just grab a weapon and start attacking with it or just use her own hands to kill someone.

her prediction skills also tell her that fighting head on against someone who is way more skilled than her isn't gonna work, we've seen more skilled opponents predict her moves quite easily like you literally showed here:

Mukuro can effortlessly block attacks from Junko

Lupin is more than skilled enough to just dance circles around on top of being way too Acrobatic for her to properly hit, realize "hey, shes really tanky", and pull out one of his instant win cards or literally just use pressure points on her which she doesn't resist.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Ap wise Junko is decently above Lupin, though unquantifiable. She upscales a fair bit above 0.039 tons vs Lupin's 0.033 Tons, though this is less of a concern since Lupin doesn't run in punching and prefers to dodge attacks. Which even with prediction is going to be hard for Junko to land a hit due to Lupin's better experience + senses.

also like no? where are you getting 0.039 tons for her? shes 0.0297 Tons or 124.26 Megatons through scaling to Makoto well Lupin is 0.033 tons or 138.07Megatons, Junko doesn't upscale in any sorta way from it since shes never shown to me physically stronger than most of the other students. but Lupin has an advantage of 1.12x in AP if i'm correct

edit: nvm I found the feat, for some odd reason it isn't listed on the verse page but anyway 0.039 tons is 163.18 Megajoules so Junko has an advantage of like 1.18x in AP if i'm doing it correctly but my last point still stands, she doesn't upscale in anyway from the feat so it is in no way enough for her to "decimate" Lupin in CQC.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

something Junko quite literally never does in-character. fighting is not her thing at all its why she hides behind the monokuma for the entire game, Junko never engages in CQC and uses her mind and despair to win which is something she can't do her, "stat advantage" is cool and all but Lupin dances circles around her in h2h combat its not even funny. Lupin quite literally has a resistance to most of his own gear so Junko using it against him is pointless and he could quite literally just hack into the camera system Junko would use to watch him and prevent her from seeing what hes doing

Uh, you realize she has more than the games right? In the anime she's more than willing to attack with anything she gets her hands on, from an ice pick to a baseball bat she's fine with anything. And in danganronpa Zero she's done stuff like snape people's necks and thrown entire bedframes, outside of the killing game she's fine with fighting more directly. As for Lupin dancing circles around her, while I do agree he's far more skilled than her in that regard, her precog does leave possibilities of her hitting him though various means. Also the school is pre-tragedy so there's no cameras installed into it to hack, so Lupin isn't going to have as consistent tabs on Junko as vice versa.

her prediction skills also tell her that fighting head on against someone who is way more skilled than her isn't gonna work, we've seen more skilled opponents predict her moves quite easily like you literally showed here

Yes, I did say that, but I also said that physical Ultimate Talents outclass Lupin in terms of combat skill, Mukuro would also be clowning on Lupin in terms of CQC. Most of Lupin's CQC is just normal real world fighting as opposed to Mukuro 'Never Been Wounded' Ikusaba.

Lupin is more than skilled enough to just dance circles around on top of being way too Acrobatic for her to properly hit, realize "hey, shes really tanky", and pull out one of his instant win cards or literally just use pressure points on her which she doesn't resist.

Lupin's acrobatics doesn't help much in a CQC sense, it's mostly used to dodge projectiles or just to be mobile in general. This is how the average Lupin melee fight looks, and this is how the average gun/fist fight looks, Lupin doesn't usually do crazy BS with it unless he's in a big open area with plenty of stuff to grappling hook around. Also I doubt pressure points would work since Lupin can't even harm her physically, from what I know Lupin's pressure points don't bypass durability like that, he'd just hurt his own hand doing that.

also like no? where are you getting 0.039 tons for her? shes 0.0297 Tons or 124.26 Megatons through scaling to Makoto well Lupin is 0.033 tons or 138.07Megatons, Junko doesn't upscale in any sorta way from it since shes never shown to me physically stronger than most of the other students. but Lupin has an advantage of 1.12x in AP if i'm correct

edit: nvm I found the feat, for some odd reason it isn't listed on the verse page but anyway 0.039 tons is 163.18 Megajoules so Junko has an advantage of like 1.18x in AP if i'm doing it correctly but my last point still stands, she doesn't upscale in anyway from the feat so it is in no way enough for her to "decimate" Lupin in CQC.

The feat that's used for it is from a very injured character no-selling an explosion without any sign of new injury, so the literal character who the explosion feat is for is upscaling well above it due to how casual it is. Lupin on the other hand shows far more damage to lesser explosions, so yeah Junko has a very solid advantage in AP

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Also something I want to note personally, I put Junko in the headmaster's office because it is easily the best starting position in the entire school. Even if there was cameras then Junko would be a few feet away from just destroying the entire system before Lupin had a chance of getting in, she's nearby the chemistry lab which house some of the best on-demand win con equipment possible, and on the 5th floor she can go to the Dojo for melee and ranged weapons to help fight + would be near the Biolab which would similarly be useful for win cons

 

[Bruhtelho]

Uh, you realize she has more than the games right? In the anime she's more than willing to attack with anything she gets her hands on, from an ice pick to a baseball bat she's fine with anything. And in danganronpa Zero she's done stuff like snape people's necks and thrown entire bedframes, outside of the killing game she's fine with fighting more directly. As for Lupin dancing circles around her, while I do agree he's far more skilled than her in that regard, her precog does leave possibilities of her hitting him though various means. Also the school is pre-tragedy so there's no cameras installed into it to hack, so Lupin isn't going to have as consistent tabs on Junko as vice versa

those aren't thing she has on her person, its situation based and more times than not she'll opt to outsmart her opponent something she can't do here nor does she usually carry weapons on her. her hitting him isn't massive enough, yes she does upscale since Makoto is stated as "superior to the person who survived that explosion" but its already only a 1.18x advantage, she isn't one shotting him and Lupin has Extrasensory Perception meaning he'll sense Junko bloodlust as soon as he's in CQC with her and Junko is never getting the jump on him either thanks to it and his stealth is far better and he'd be smart enough to make use of the Camera's blindspots.

Yes, I did say that, but I also said that physical Ultimate Talents outclass Lupin in terms of combat skill, Mukuro would also be clowning on Lupin in terms of CQC. Most of Lupin's CQC is just normal real world fighting as opposed to Mukuro 'Never Been Wounded' Ikusaba.

well yah he isn't Mukuro levels but neither is Junko, Lupin is still way more skilled than Junko has ever shown

Lupin's acrobatics doesn't help much in a CQC sense, it's mostly used to dodge projectiles or just to be mobile in general. This is how the average Lupin melee fight looks, and this is how the average gun/fist fight looks, Lupin doesn't usually do crazy BS with it unless he's in a big open area with plenty of stuff to grappling hook around. Also I doubt pressure points would work since Lupin can't even harm her physically, from what I know Lupin's pressure points don't bypass durability like that, he'd just hurt his own hand doing that.

"be mobile in general" is plenty in this kinda fight, he'd dodge her attacks a lot easier thanks to it and the examples you showed are already a lot better than anything we've ever seen Junko do, yes shes grabs weapons but more skilled opponents have had no problem dodging or simply blocking them. once Lupin realizes shes a lot tankier than he is which he will soon given its CQC, he'll likely retreat and Junko isn't one to chase after people giving him more than enough time to whip out one of his instant wincons.

The feat that's used for it is from a very injured character no-selling an explosion without any sign of new injury, so the literal character who the explosion feat is for is upscaling well above it due to how casual it is. Lupin on the other hand shows far more damage to lesser explosions, so yeah Junko has a very solid advantage in AP

acknowledged already, didn't see that it said Makoto was superior to her he upscales in durability more than ap but i'm not really here to argue if his ap does or not its not substantial enough to make a massive difference given its already so small of only 1.18x and Lupins degree of pain resistance means he could likely survive a few good hits from her if it actually happens.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Also something I want to note personally, I put Junko in the headmaster's office because it is easily the best starting position in the entire school. Even if there was cameras then Junko would be a few feet away from just destroying the entire system before Lupin had a chance of getting in, she's nearby the chemistry lab which house some of the best on-demand win con equipment possible, and on the 5th floor she can go to the Dojo for melee and ranged weapons to help fight + would be near the Biolab which would similarly be useful for win cons

but that's an assumption we can't safely make, we've only ever seen Junko make use of the skill of technology based characters, we have no idea what she could do with the lab also the fact this is pre-tragedy means Junko is gonna have less eyes within the building which gives Lupin more means to avoid her. the dojo stuff is cool and all but Lupin already has greater equipment if the fight really comes to that, the Walther P38 and modified Fiat 500 already give him a range advantage and well he doesn't like killing, he could just incap her by shooting her in the leg, watch with the grappling hook means he could escape by grappling onto something around the room or even likely restrain junko with it, smoke pellets completely shut off Junko since she has no way of seeing through them well Lupin would be unfazed, and the pocket knife could pierce Junko thanks to piercing dmg

I really don't believe Junko stands much of a chance, Lupin either has her matched or beaten in most categories.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

those aren't thing she has on her person, its situation based and more times than not she'll opt to outsmart her opponent something she can't do here nor does she usually carry weapons on her. her hitting him isn't massive enough, yes she does upscale since Makoto is stated as "superior to the person who survived that explosion" but its already only a 1.18x advantage, she isn't one shotting him and Lupin has Extrasensory Perception meaning he'll sense Junko bloodlust as soon as he's in CQC with her and Junko is never getting the jump on him either thanks to it and his stealth is far better and he'd be smart enough to make use of the Camera's blindspots.

As I mentioned the Dojo has equipment for her to grab in order to fight and she is capable of outsmarting Lupin a few times in this due to him not knowing about the precog and being forced to figure it out on his own.

As for the 'superior to the person who survived that explosion', it's not just that. Makoto is superior to the a fully healed person who, while heavily injured, no sold an explosion that would leave Lupin decently injured. I don't recall the specifics for no-selling things but Junko should be a few times stronger than Lupin in that department at least.

As for the stealth, it's been mentioned before but Junko counters it with her precog. Until Lupin catches on Junko is going to be predicting where she's going to be sneak attacked (also again, there are no cameras, Junko is going to keep tabs via her intelligence) and while Lupin's senses are going to prevent him from getting sneak attacked....... nothing about his character is capable of discerning that a high school girl is capable of molly-whopping him in a physical fight so that is going to catch him off-guard.

well yah he isn't Mukuro levels but neither is Junko, Lupin is still way more skilled than Junko has ever shown

Yes, but with what I've showed, it's not to a point where he could effortlessly beat someone who is predicting his every move. Especially not someone he isn't expecting to be as strong as Junko is.

"be mobile in general" is plenty in this kinda fight, he'd dodge her attacks a lot easier thanks to it and the examples you showed are already a lot better than anything we've ever seen Junko do, yes shes grabs weapons but more skilled opponents have had no problem dodging or simply blocking them. once Lupin realizes shes a lot tankier than he is which he will soon given its CQC, he'll likely retreat and Junko isn't one to chase after people giving him more than enough time to whip out one of his instant wincons.

Again, the acrobatics isn't like that. By 'be more mobile' I mean being Spiderman and swinging around buildings or running down a hallway to dodge danmaku, the most he does in CQC that counts as acrobatics typically is just jumping over his opponent to get into a blind spot. While Lupin is capable of dodging her attacks he absolutely isn't capable of blocking them well due to her solid advantage. Also she isn't just going to sit around and let Lupin do whatever, if her precog says he's going to do something that's going to result in a instant loss, she's going to do something to either stop it or counter it

There is good reason why he has 'Sometimes, if he does not have any information on an opponent or is not fully prepared for a fight, he can be caught off guard.' in his weakness section. Junko doesn't match what he'd expect from her which would result in more sloppy opening moves compared to what I showed since Lupin is fighting people he thinks are highly skilled combatants that he had plenty of info on.

acknowledged already, didn't see that it said Makoto was superior to her he upscales in durability more than ap but i'm not really here to argue if his ap does or not its not substantial enough to make a massive difference given its already so small of only 1.18x and Lupins degree of pain resistance means he could likely survive a few good hits from her if it actually happens.

It's only 1.18 times if you assume that the severely injured Misaki is just as strong as her fully healed self and that her no-selling the 0.039 ton explosion is comparable to Lupin getting noticeably hurt from lesser explosions. The two feats are wildly different and the context behind them result in Junko upscaling several times over Lupin

but that's an assumption we can't safely make, we've only ever seen Junko make use of the skill of technology based characters, we have no idea what she could do with the lab also the fact this is pre-tragedy means Junko is gonna have less eyes within the building which gives Lupin more means to avoid her.

Again, Junko could just use her prediction to figure out where Lupin is. She doesn't need extra eyes for that and no she doesn't only make use of her ability for technological means. She has also used it for things like Neurology, I'm not saying she can suddenly become a master swordswoman from picking up a kendo stick but her intelligence is more than good enough to user her analytical prediction for bow and arrows. Also she can literally learn new things by watching Lupin in action.

The Walther P38 and modified Fiat 500 already give him a range advantage and well he doesn't like killing, he could just incap her by shooting her in the leg, watch with the grappling hook means he could escape by grappling onto something around the room or even likely restrain junko with it, smoke pellets completely shut off Junko since she has no way of seeing through them well Lupin would be unfazed, and the pocket knife could pierce Junko thanks to piercing dmg

I really don't believe Junko stands much of a chance, Lupin either has her matched or beaten in most categories.

Walter P38 can't do anything due to the sheer stat gap, the modified Fiat 500 isn't going to help because Lupin isn't likely to just drive it into the school (definitely not as a first resort), her leg has far more durability to tank the shot, while the grappling hook can help escape Junko's prediction is more than enough to figure out how it works by looking at it (Lupin doesn't even hide it) and would be capable of just sidestepping it, smoke pellets don't help since again her precog is negating Lupin's stealth to begin with, and the pocket knife doesn't work because again durability gap.

Junko's durability is legit over 500,000 times above the best Lupin has to offer, and that's me underestimating.

I do agree Lupin has Junko beat in several areas, but to act like she has no win conditions is just inaccurate due to Lupin's own character and the fact that Junko has means of tricking Lupin early on.

 

[Stillwinston]

Hmmm yeah chalk me down for Lupin atm it seems decisive but Junko can rig smth up to counter, stick Lupin up against The Courier or Sole Survivor next lol

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

stick Lupin up against The Courier or Sole Survivor next lol

I'll wait until I revise Lupin for a matchup like that lol. Supernatural Luck + that loong equipment list would be better suited for a more fully realized Lupin. (As an offhand example, a revised Lupin would have a Zangantetsu shard as optional equipment to allow him to reflect lasers)

 

[Stillwinston]

Fair enough I reckon Lupin can actually handle Courier's SI lol, Arkham Batman could be an interesting opponent too I reckon

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Fair enough I reckon Lupin can actually handle Courier's SI lol, Arkham Batman could be an interesting opponent too I reckon

He definitely can, hard to outdo Tomoe rewriting people's personalities and life yet still needing 60 years of prep to effect Lupin. Will say Arkham Batman would be interesting but I feel like I want my next Lupin fight to have a more.... old fashioned and western feel for it