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This went a lot smother than id expect from a JJK CRT
Dereks already given his acceptance of it. Duedate I think might be needed as a supporter.This went a lot smother than id expect from a JJK CRT
I hope everyone enjoyed my cooking
So characters who scales relative or above Hakari should be upgraded to this calculation.
Hakari was stated to be getting even faster later onwards so the what's in the calculation is not his top speed.Just saying.
Kashimo because he fought Hakari.
Hakari ~ Kashimo
Gojo is too much for Kenjaku and Kenjaku sees Yuta as just small threat. Also mentions Geto would have won instead of Yuta during their clash if it wasn't for Geto extending his Curses throughout Shinjuku. Additionally Kenjaku powers are implied to be same as Getos level without suffering any loss in Quality so they should scale to each other as Kenjaku is using Getos body itself. Yuki can keep up Kenjaku and beat him up.
Gojo > Kenjaku ~ Yuki >~ Yuta
Geto was able to keep with Bloodlusted Original Rika which later Yuta only has remnants. Culling Game Rika was able to keep up with Yuta and Ryu which should put JJK0 Rika as same tier as them in speed. Rika in Culling Game reached same Version as JJK0 Rika during her fight with Ryu and Uro.
Geto ~ Rika Culling game (Relative to yuta) ~ Rika in JJK0
Yuta because he's said to be only second to Gojo in unusual abilities/jujutsu. Additionally backed up by the fact when getting sealed Gojo brings up Yuta as his backup. Which should confirm Yuta is second only to Gojo in Modern Era. Which should put him above or atleast relative to Hakari. Uro and Ryu can keep up with Yuta.
Yuta > ~ Hakari
Yuta ~ Ryu ~ Uro
15F Sukuna Bliztes and One shot Ryu.
15F Sukuna > Ryu
Yorozu was stated to be wiped out a Squad which was EQ to Uros squad in the past.Also can Clutch with 15F Sukuna if that works
Yorozu > Uro
Gojo > Kenjaku ~ Yuki >~ Yuta
Which should confirm Yuta is second only to Gojo in Modern Era.
I never claimed in OP more CE = speed. So I don't know why you even brought that as an argument. Naobito Arguments are already addressed. Same goes for Hakari.The calc looks good [assuming Kashimo's attacks are Lightning speed] there is just direct evidence that you can't just scale characters' speed solely based on their cursed energy amount OR their special grade title which means even characters much weaker than Yuta and a lower ranking like Naobito can be faster.
I'll go into the reasoning below.
As mentioned, there was a Grade 1 Sorcerer named Naobito who was confirmed as the second-fastest sorcerer in the series prior to the loss of his arm.
This is despite the fact he was never special grade and is generally vastly inferior to special grades such as Yuta, Hakari, Kenjaku, all those characters in Cursed energy amount and strength. That is because more CE ≠ more speed. To underline that, Hakari had infinite CE coursing through him, stated multiple times during the fight, yet Kashimo who should have had less CE output during the 4 Min 11 seconds this power was active, was still able to react to Hakari's attacks and land attacks on his own, another reason proving more CE doesn't mean more speed. Maki has no CE but has enough base stats to be considered one of the heavy hitters by Kenjaku and relative to Hakari and Yuta, although she is kind of an outlier since some Jujutsu rules like Domain rules don't even apply to her due to her Heavenly restriction.
Yuta has stated to have more Cursed energy than Gojo, Gojo is still stated to be the fastest sorcerer ever, in fact he's slower than Naobito who has MUCH less CE than him yet is confirmed the second-fastest sorcerer.
So Yuta being a special grade is by no means a guarantee he can match a fellow special grade in speed when there was a Grade 1 Sorcerer faster than him and his special grade title is largely due to his massive amount of CE which isn't a speed related power otherwise he would have been the fastest sorcerer, not Gojo. Cursed technique and inherent physical speed/strength seems much more important for determining speed, as there are countless more examples of someone having less CE and still be similar speed/faster than a otherwise superior sorcerer (examples would be Gojo > Yuta, Maki > Curse-Naoya, Yuji being able to react to Higuruma with no CE whatsoever) meaning you can't scale anyone's speed to Hakari, using the evidence you presented at least.
Speaking of Kenjaku, he considers special grades to be people who can overthrow a country which seems more power-dependent. I say that because you directly use Special Grade title as a confirmation of Lightning speed by scaling people to Hakari's speed because they are Special Grades, but going by this definition, what sorcerers have to do to be special grade does not require being Lightning speed at all.
Lastly and this is another big factor for why I'm disagreeing, Kashimo's charge technique which is the only technique afaik to be directly confirmed to be Lightning speed was stated to be a sure-hit technique that is guaranteed to land, nobody in the verse can dodge it. To prove that, not only did Kashimo land it twice on Hakari, he later also hit 20 finger Sukuna with the same technique who is much stronger than Hakari.
Disagree FRA
It's a can't miss technique because he transfers the positive charge to his enemy causing the lightning to be atracted to them. It's a homing attack, it's not a matter of speedLastly and this is another big factor for why I'm disagreeing, Kashimo's charge technique which is the only technique afaik to be directly confirmed to be Lightning speed was stated to be a sure-hit technique that is guaranteed to land, nobody in the verse can dodge it. To prove that, not only did Kashimo land it twice on Hakari,
Sukuna does actually somewhat react to the lighting since he begins trasmorming into his original body after the bolt has been firedhe later also hit 20 finger Sukuna with the same technique who is much stronger than Hakari.
I never claimed in OP more CE = speed.
Kashimo With CT > Kashimo who fought Hakari. Get your points correctly. Sukuna never got tagged by normal Kashimo attacks.
Your arguments shows you never bothered to read the thread instead jumped to your own conclusions. Try to read the full thread before you making another reply.
It's a can't miss technique because he transfers the positive charge to his enemy causing the lightning to be atracted to them. It's a homing attack, it's not a matter of speed
Sukuna does actually somewhat react to the lighting since he begins trasmorming into his original body after the bolt has been fired
that Sukuna just took Hollow purple and was barely able to stand, then Kashimo started to punch him and then launched his lightning, you can not use that Sukuna as a limiter to anyone because he scales to his own feats
The statement you are using as a basis for this argument of not scaling Yuta, wouldn’t include characters such as Toji who surpass Naobito in speed, with Maki being his equal.Conclusion:
I agree you can say Hakari is Lightning speed if we say that Kashimo in general is Lightning speed but not everyone stronger than Hakari or Kashimo (like Yuta) is necessarily Lightning speed since speed in JJK verse seems highly dependant on CT and physical fitness rather than the overall level as a sorcerer or their cursed energy. I listed the whole paragraph for why that is above, so so i wont go into it here. Even if Yuta was much slower than Kashimo, he would still stomp him because he'd basically always be in Jackpot mode +has Rika and a dozen CTs he can use AND a domain with a sure-hit effect, i dont see how Kashimo would fight that even if he was twice as fast as Yuta.
Disagree FRA
The first one is missing context, Hakari was soo close to Kashimo there and wasn't expecting Kashimo to have already accumulated enough charges, it's a different feat with different distance and different contexthe was also shown to be able to hit with just placing charges behind Hakari and then activating that technique, Hakari who can react to Kashimos other attacks doesnt even perceive that one.
Ig we have different interpretations on this, i thought he got hit and that caused him to take enough damage to then incarnate, using his one-time full heal. I mean why would he incarnate AS the attack is hitting him and use his only heal before the attack hits him?
Im not saying youre wrong i think its up to interpretation.
Sukuna's slashes are invisible, they are only shown in this fight against Kashimo because Kashimo is using X-rays visionYou make good points but that Sukuna had just been able to land a finishing blow on Gojo who is stated to be the fastest sorcerer. Is it not fair to say even a weakened Sukuna is still above just about everyone else?
I mean if so then forget that point.
Still that Arguments are irrelevant because I never claimed it. Having more CE = speed was never my argument.Im just saying that characters like Yuta can generally be superior/stronger to Hakari and Kashimo as sorcerers without being directly speed related.
Sukuna case already explained. Kashimo CT takes his abilities beyond what normally he can do. He can spams even electro magnetic waves (SOL) attacks. Saying Kashimo tagged Sukuna with his attacks(which used against Hakari) is just wrong beside same Sukuna was not having left eye and left hand. Having damage from Gojos battle.Ig we have different interpretations on this, i thought he got hit and that caused him to take enough damage to then incarnate, using his one-time full heal. I mean why would he incarnate AS the attack is hitting him and use his only heal before the attack hits him?
Im not saying youre wrong i think its up to interpretation.
Attack speed can vary depending on which type of attacks are used. Sukuna killing Gojo has nothing to do with he can react and dodge attacks when he was almost dead from Hollow purple. Beside as Yuka said Sukuna started transformation.You make good points but that Sukuna had just been able to land a finishing blow on Gojo who is stated to be the fastest sorcerer. Is it not fair to say even a weakened Sukuna is still above just about everyone else?
I mean if so then forget that point.
That was a sneak attack, Hakari had no way of seeing that coming
That's fair i guess. For some reason i always assumed he transofmed mid attack maybe to tank it better?Ig we have different interpretations on this, i thought he got hit and that caused him to take enough damage to then incarnate, using his one-time full heal. I mean why would he incarnate AS the attack is hitting him and use his only heal before the attack hits him?
Im not saying youre wrong i think its up to interpretation.
The statement you are using as a basis for this argument of not scaling Yuta, wouldn’t include characters such as Toji who surpass Naobito in speed, with Maki being his equal.
Yuta can from then scale from Maki since he’s both been compared to and stated superior to her, and Yuta has shown to have some of the best reactions with him noticing the less than .01 difference between Gojo and Sukuna activating their domain expansions. So he should scale to this value if it is accepted.
Alright got itStill that Arguments are irrelevant because I never claimed it. Having more CE = speed was never my argument.
Yuta is second only Gojo because Yuki information was known to no one. That's why I put Yuki above Yuta and Yuki can keep up with Kenjaku without an issue. We already have established Kenjaku > Yuta.
Yuki >~ Yuta.
Sukuna case already explained. Kashimo CT takes his abilities beyond what normally he can do. He can spams even electro magnetic waves (SOL) attacks. Saying Kashimo tagged Sukuna with his attacks(which used against Hakari) is just wrong beside same Sukuna was not having left eye and left hand. Having damage from Gojos battle.
Attack speed can vary depending on which type of attacks are used. Sukuna killing Gojo has nothing to do with he can react and dodge attacks when he was almost dead from Hollow purple. Beside as Yuka said Sukuna started transformation.
That was a sneak attack, Hakari had no way of seeing that coming
That's fair i guess. For some reason i always assumed he transofmed mid attack maybe to tank it better?
Regarding that Yuta > Yuji you agree with this right?Alright got it
I agree with Kenjaku > Yuta idk if we can say Yuki > Yuta but im not gonna fight it, you definitely put a lot of thought into your scaling.
Yep i went over that with 2 other people already, i personally think Sukuna who just hit and killed Gojo > Kashimo BUT you are correct theres no evidence for it at all given that hes very weakened. So i retract that point
I wish we knew. I have no idea why that scene got Off-screened
Like i said,i concede Sukuna was not in peak form and Kashimo was stronger than when he fought Hakari i wont bring that up again.
Since it seems like there was a misunderstanding with the CE argument: the main point of my reply is that sorcerers overall inferior to special grades can still be faster than special grades, so why can we scale people based on who they fought. Ill give you an example.
Lets say Kenjaku fights Yuki, and Yuki can keep up with Kenjaku. Good now we know they are relative even tho Yuki is weaker.
But the issue is how do we scale anyone else off that? You brought Yuta into your scaling, saying he has better overall abilities than anyone else but his rank/CE/CT all of that isnt a speed feat or ability. All we have for him is fighting characters like Ryu who themselves only scale to Yuta. We cant say they have relative speed because they are special grade because theres Grade 1s and people with little and no CE (Yuji/Maki) who are faster than some special grade sorcerers. How can we assume if they are equal sorcerers they are also equally fast. thats my question.
Still MHS speed.9397.4123836 m/s
I think it's fine to remove Yuta and others for now, they can wait with Uraume for the next chapters
Regarding that Yuta > Yuji you agree with this right?
Near 10% of Sukuna was getting tagged by Maki and Yuji.
I done a quick calc with lowest end with only 5% of Speed for Sukuna which would put them at this level.
9397.4123836 m/s
Still MHS speed.
LMAO I should have added them to this posts
Can you reply to everyone in one post, we don't wanna get alot of pages for the thread
Calculation is already in OP. Just do a quick calculation for how much value comes for that when you consider only 5% you will get that. Also I didn't say he is superior to everyone.Yes in overall abilities absolutely.
Problem is if a character says Yuta > everyone but Gojo that doesnt mean hes faster than everyone but Gojo. Because Naobito/Yuji/Toji are all similar to Yutas speed despite having not even 5% of Yutas ability as a sorcerer (with Yuji you can say he held back but Yuta specifically said "this was never going to be easy"). I dont think any of those statements referred to speed only. So Yuta > Yuji agree Yuta speed > Yuji we dont know
Ok that sounds good thats exactly what i was looking for, more calcs to back up the speed scaling. I havent seen your calc yet but assuming its accepted your arguments would gain more foundation imo.
Maki specifically is super hard to scale to others, Kenjaku puts her relative to Yuta/Hakari but that doesnt mean shes as fast, because hes obviously ignoring capacity as cursed sorcerer, she has unique strengths like just being able to walk out of Domains or having a sixth sense allowing her to dodge Curse-Naoyas attacks even though she should be slower than him.
I did gave two choices. Yutas Perception speed is already shown to be above Hakari. So I don't really see a point in scaling Yuta below him. As I suggested we should scale him above or atleast relative to him.Yuta is second only to Gojo in Modern Era. Which should put him above or atleast relative to Hakari.
I don't think we can scale speed linearly like thatNear 10% of Sukuna was getting tagged by Maki and Yuji.
I done a quick calc with lowest end with only 5% of Speed for Sukuna which would put them at this level.
Still MHS speed.
LMAO I should have added them to this posts
Calculation is already in OP.
Just do a quick calculation for how much value comes for that when you consider only 5% you will get that.
Also I didn't say he is superior to everyone.
I did gave two choices. Yutas Perception speed is already shown to be above Hakari. So I don't really see a point in scaling Yuta below him. As I suggested we should scale him above or atleast relative to him.
Which should put him above or atleast relative to Hakari.
So that's your last reply and you didn't added anything new I will just stop.
Why do we need a seperate key for gojo? I don't remember him getting stronger after prison realm?15F Sukuna and Pre Prison Realm Gojo still scales a way level above Others in the verse. Needs seperate key. I guess.
Same goes for Kenjaku Before the time skip. If he has Relativistic calculation then Yuki scales to it at best.
JJK 0 needs a seperate key. If Possible.
Kashimo Speed can replace it. Post Prison Realm Gojo and 20F Sukuna will have FTL speed.
First Calculation needs to gets accepted though.
Current Yuta (after 35 time skip) Most Probably scales to Weakend Sukuna looking at his confidence in handling Mahoraga and Agito. But let's wait for more chapters before going to any conclusions.
Irrelevant I never made a claim for any CE based Arguments. Also Naobito being faster than Yuta already addressed it in this CRT. I did suggested you to read the full CRT. You are just ignoring at this point.Well i'd have liked you to respond, so im going to sum up my main points:
- Sorcerers with less ability than Yuta are confirmed to be faster than him or relative to him (Naobito/Yuji/Gojo) (Yuta has more CE than Gojo)
This also already addressed in this thread.
- Hes stated to be the second-best overall sorcerer below Gojo despite Naobito having the title of second-fastest sorcerer: So that statement doesn't include speed.
Bypassing hax means nothing when characters doesn't have speed Hakari can literally blitz and out live yuta because of his jackpot and speed if your saying is true. So stop bringing of yuta has bypassing hax thing. Cursed speed can be Resisted and Yuta gets depleted meanwhile using that. Hanami example only shows what would happen if he gets using it too much-Yuta has a ton of speed-bypassing hax: Cursed speech that can stop movement (seen with Inumaki stopping Hanami), Domains with sure-hit guarantee, having more CE than Gojo so he can obviously beat faster opponents (like Naobito) just with brute force. His abilities dont rely on speed
Already addressed this as an Outlier. Dude atleast fully read the thread .-Has a lot of anti-feats if you use the "second-strongest sorcerer behind Gojo" as a speed statement: getting his katana broken by Yuji, getting hit by comparatively weak Sendai colony sorcerers (Ryu got no-diffed by 15F Meguna, yet he could fight Yuta) confirmed slower than Naobito who is slower than Toji.
Yutas reaction speed was 0.01 seconds faster than Hakaris. Hakari already has lightning speed reaction feat.- Why is Yuta reacting to 0.01 second difference Lightning feat? Its just a small Anti-feat for Hakari whos' supposed to be a Lightning timer.
Again read the full CRT and don't come back asking same thing again and again.-Agree with most of ur scaling but not that the scaling can be used for speed because as mentioned statements like "second-strongest behind Gojo" dont apply to speed.
Ok now im done. Pls reply to these points, i'll read it at least
Questions regarding Kashimo lightining is explained in this thread. Check power reply at the end.I came late to this but we do not assume supernatural lightning/electricity are lightning speed without evidence.
So far there is none that has been provided
that is a QnA thread, make a CRT for it, things do not get accepted in QnA.Questions regarding Kashimo lightining is explained in this thread. Check power reply at the end.
Jujutsu kaisen speed (Hajime kashimo)
Well i think i Will explaining this feats first. the speed of electric current can actually be seen from how fast electrons "hit" other electrons in sequence until they reach their target. For example, imagine a domino effect. Between the ends of A to Z, there must be another card that...vsbattles.com
Being called electricity is not one of themLightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.