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JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.

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LIFE_OF_KING said:
Option 1: Supersonic to hypersonic feats

Option 2: Gege makes JJK into 9-C
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I'm betting Gege does both and washes away our efforts

But then again, Gege used bullets for Curses of about Grade 2-3 and Tanks almost useless for Curses of Grade 1.

Gege isn't really one to forget but let's see how it plays out
 
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Shey said:
I'm betting Gege does both and washes away our efforts

But then again, Gege used bullets for Curses of about Grade 2-3 and Tanks almost useless for Curses of Grade 1.

Gege isn't really one to forget but let's see how it plays out
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It find it funny that Gege sets up a whole tier for Curses only for the cast to fight and defeat special grades in their second mission.

Also say that a shotgun could beat a second Grade, but the first second grade we see at the school is performing small building to building level feats.

Or Mach 3 being fast speed despite characters reacting and dodging bullets cm from their faces or dodging the same with attacks fatser than sound.

I've long accepted that Gege just talks out their ass.
 
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PowerToScale said:
It find it funny that Gege sets up a whole tier for Curses only for the cast to fight and defeat special grades in their second mission.

Also say that a shotgun could be a second Grade, but the first second grade qe see at the school is performing small building to building level feats.

Or Mach 3 being fast speed despite characters reacting and dodging bullets cm from their faces or dodging the same with attacks fatser than sound.

I've long accepted that Gege just talks out their ass.
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Nuke Mach 3 scaling fra
 
PowerToScale said:
Or Mach 3 being fast speed despite characters reacting and dodging bullets cm from their faces or dodging the same with attacks fatser than sound.
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I think he just did that for hype, not that he wanted us to take that as her literal speed.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
3 Finger Sukuna isn't an inconsistency. He scales above most of the verse, up to around Mahoraga by his own words.
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3F Sukuna is also verbatim stated on multiple occasions to be below Jogo, who in turn is slower than Naobito. Which reiterates that Speed scaling and AP scaling remain completely different.

Jo-Smooth said:
Jogo is a special case as Gege said that Jogo and Hanami are basically relative in overall strength, but Jogo has a type advantage. Hanami is more durable while Jogo is faster. He's an exception.
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This only serves to underline the point further of being superior in X stat not automatically meaning you're superior in Y aswell. There's also little insinuating that events like these are exceptions as there's no presedence set in JJK that being stronger someone also means you're faster aswell.

Jo-Smooth said:
Projection Sorcerers are the literal definition of exceptions since their technique is literally a speed based technique, and even then Naoya's AP is high enough to smack Maki around and potentially break her ribs while at the same time being inferior in AP and speed to Yuta
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And even amongst the Projection Sorcerers, we have Naobito being the faster of the two, despite Naoya having outright superior AP scaling, again intersecting with the AP scaling = Speed scaling.

Jo-Smooth said:
It's like Yoruichi and Soi Fon in Bleach who have some of the highest tier speed scaling depending on the arc but aren't the strongest, while almost everyone else scales all around. Or like the Raikage's and Minato in Naruto.
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This would be valid if the ones in question have displayed any form of relativity in Speed, but that isn't the case.
None of the Yuta-level characters have displayed anything worthy of putting them amongst the Mach 3 speedsters.

Jo-Smooth said:
It's like trying to use the outlier characters and applying those rules to the rest. Specifically in JJK, everyone mentioned there either has in verse explanations, techniques, or special extra notes by Gege.
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They're not outliers in the first place.
Not only do they have discernable reasons explaing how they're so abnormally fast (I.E cursed techniques, Heavenly Restriction, etc), we also know that scaling within one facet does not translate 1-for-1 into another facet (I.E Jogo being stronger and Hanami being more durable).

Scaling the others to the speedsters by default, despite them not displaying anything insinuating that they would be that fast, not only goes against the entire premise of speed-types in the first place, but it would also be extremely inconsistent.
 
Was about to make a questions thread about this lol. So is the consensus that they'll be getting Downgraded??? cause that Mach 3 statment seemed pretty explicit
 
AdNiBN002 said:
.
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I dunno how to quote specific parts of a post but

1.) Kenjaku was lying when he said Jogo was 8-9 Fingers strong. First, he said that was being generous. And second he was just straight up lying to get Jogo to be humbled by Gojo. Jogo was acting out of line, so he hopes him up so that he’d take on Gojo and get humbled. We know this is his plan because A.) He shows up to save Jogo at the perfect timing while also stating later on in Shibuya that he planned in taking Jogo for himself and B.) After getting humbled by Gojo, Jogo never acted out of line again

Then there’s the fact that 15 Finger Sukuna basically no diffed Jogo without getting hurt, but when he fights Mahoraga who’s far stronger than Jogo, he says Mahoraga might’ve had a chance or might’ve won if it was 3 Finger Sukuna he was fighting which was a comment he never made for Jogo.

When Gojo fought him for the first time, he said that Jogo was stronger than the 1 Finger Sukuna he fought, or potentially the 2 Finger Sukuna he saw that almost took over Yuji, but he never saw 3 Finger Sukuna so he wasn’t comparing him to that

3 Finger Sukuna

2.) It’s basic power scaling. Grade 3 Sorcerers curses are faster than Grade 4 Sorcerers and curses, Grade 2 are faster than Grade 3’s, Grade 1s are faster than Grade 2s, and Special Grades are immensely faster than Grade 1s.

We literally see this through the entire story. Even between Base Yuta and Naoya who is a speedster. You’re taking the few exceptions in the story and applying it to everyone.

Base Yuta is above human Naoya in terms of speed to the point where the prideful and arrogant Naoya who was faster than or at the worst relative in speed to Maki who was approaching Toji level was scared and cucking down to him.

And Hakari and Kashimo are literally lightning timers with Kashimo’s attack fulfilling the qualifications to be an actual lightning speed technique.

3.) Naoya and Naobito aren’t actually different speeds. It’s specifically said what makes Naobito the fastest is his grasp on timing and strategic movement. Not straight up raw speed. In terms of raw speed, Human Naoya actually has better feats as he stacks up speed while Naobito used it in short bursts rather than stacking. And it’s not even fact, it’s just commonly known that Naobito is the fastest. People like Hakari and Yuta have relatively unknown power in compass to a famous head of a clan. And that clan being notoriously classist

4.) That’s the exact reason why they’re outliers. They have specific reasons as to why they don’t scale in the same way normal characters do, and if they don’t have specified reasons, Gege at the very least points them out specifically.

Jogo was never said to have more AP than Hanami. He has better AP feats with Domain Expansion and Maximum Techniques which Hanami hasn’t shown, but Gege specifically said Hanami is more durable while Jogo self proclaimed himself to be faster. And Gege said Jogo only is ‘stronger’ due to elemental advantages. Again, one of the only times in the series where AP and Speed don’t scale, it’s highlighted by Gege, showing it’s a special case and not the norm.

Again, like Burter in Dragon Ball or Soi Fon in Bleach. They’re specifically noted for being faster than others in their tier or stronger than them as a special trait. But that doesn’t inherently make them the fastest in their verse for the time they’re relevant.

I don’t see why this suddenly has to apply for JJK, especially when there’s statements, scaling, in story narrative implications, and a feat in the form of Hakari for the current top tiers being faster than the speedsters of the high tiers

Even more so with Toji and Current Maki being capped below 2nd Year Gojo whom all the top tiers scale above in terms of stats at least, and relative to weakened and purposefully holding back 3 Finger Sukuna.

when characters show new feats, characters that we know blatantly scale above them just upscale off of it. It’s why Gojo and Sukuna would upscale from anything Hakari and Yuta show this arc. Likewise, the Hakari (Jackpot specifically) and Yuta tiers would blatantly upscale from the Maki and Toji tiers
 
Shey said:
It kinda feels like Gojo was the opposite of retconned in the main series, the Vol 0 ver. seems less than what is portrayed in the main series, but that's just me
Click to expand...
Volume 0 is a year before the main story. V0 Gojo ≠ Main Story Gojo. It’s never outright stated but if you comb through, Gojo was never called the strongest or was implied to be an unstoppable force like he is in the main story. Gege scaled 3 of the 4 Special Grades to each other in V0, and Gojo didn’t show all the abilities he has in the main story yet either. Through retcons he has Purple though V0 Gojo automatically upscales from Hidden Inventory and Year 3 Gojo regardless. And it’s not like Teen Gojo scales to the current top tiers unless we consider Maki and Toji the gate keepers of top tier. And even then it doesn’t contradict Volume 0 or Culling Games top tiers being above that level
 
Jo-Smooth said:
I dunno how to quote specific parts of a post but

1.) Kenjaku was lying when he said Jogo was 8-9 Fingers strong. First, he said that was being generous. And second he was just straight up lying to get Jogo to be humbled by Gojo. Jogo was acting out of line, so he hopes him up so that he’d take on Gojo and get humbled. We know this is his plan because A.) He shows up to save Jogo at the perfect timing while also stating later on in Shibuya that he planned in taking Jogo for himself and B.) After getting humbled by Gojo, Jogo never acted out of line again

Then there’s the fact that 15 Finger Sukuna basically no diffed Jogo without getting hurt, but when he fights Mahoraga who’s far stronger than Jogo, he says Mahoraga might’ve had a chance or might’ve won if it was 3 Finger Sukuna he was fighting which was a comment he never made for Jogo.

When Gojo fought him for the first time, he said that Jogo was stronger than the 1 Finger Sukuna he fought, or potentially the 2 Finger Sukuna he saw that almost took over Yuji, but he never saw 3 Finger Sukuna so he wasn’t comparing him to that

3 Finger Sukuna

2.) It’s basic power scaling. Grade 3 Sorcerers curses are faster than Grade 4 Sorcerers and curses, Grade 2 are faster than Grade 3’s, Grade 1s are faster than Grade 2s, and Special Grades are immensely faster than Grade 1s.

We literally see this through the entire story. Even between Base Yuta and Naoya who is a speedster. You’re taking the few exceptions in the story and applying it to everyone.

Base Yuta is above human Naoya in terms of speed to the point where the prideful and arrogant Naoya who was faster than or at the worst relative in speed to Maki who was approaching Toji level was scared and cucking down to him.

And Hakari and Kashimo are literally lightning timers with Kashimo’s attack fulfilling the qualifications to be an actual lightning speed technique.

3.) Naoya and Naobito aren’t actually different speeds. It’s specifically said what makes Naobito the fastest is his grasp on timing and strategic movement. Not straight up raw speed. In terms of raw speed, Human Naoya actually has better feats as he stacks up speed while Naobito used it in short bursts rather than stacking. And it’s not even fact, it’s just commonly known that Naobito is the fastest. People like Hakari and Yuta have relatively unknown power in compass to a famous head of a clan. And that clan being notoriously classist

4.) That’s the exact reason why they’re outliers. They have specific reasons as to why they don’t scale in the same way normal characters do, and if they don’t have specified reasons, Gege at the very least points them out specifically.

Jogo was never said to have more AP than Hanami. He has better AP feats with Domain Expansion and Maximum Techniques which Hanami hasn’t shown, but Gege specifically said Hanami is more durable while Jogo self proclaimed himself to be faster. And Gege said Jogo only is ‘stronger’ due to elemental advantages. Again, one of the only times in the series where AP and Speed don’t scale, it’s highlighted by Gege, showing it’s a special case and not the norm.

Again, like Burter in Dragon Ball or Soi Fon in Bleach. They’re specifically noted for being faster than others in their tier or stronger than them as a special trait. But that doesn’t inherently make them the fastest in their verse for the time they’re relevant.

I don’t see why this suddenly has to apply for JJK, especially when there’s statements, scaling, in story narrative implications, and a feat in the form of Hakari for the current top tiers being faster than the speedsters of the high tiers

Even more so with Toji and Current Maki being capped below 2nd Year Gojo whom all the top tiers scale above in terms of stats at least, and relative to weakened and purposefully holding back 3 Finger Sukuna.

when characters show new feats, characters that we know blatantly scale above them just upscale off of it. It’s why Gojo and Sukuna would upscale from anything Hakari and Yuta show this arc. Likewise, the Hakari (Jackpot specifically) and Yuta tiers would blatantly upscale from the Maki and Toji tiers
Click to expand...
Do you mind summarizing this?
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Naobito Zenin

Naobito Zenin (禪ぜん院いん 直なお毘び人と, Zen'in Naobito?) is the 26th head of the Zen'in clan, renowned for being the fastest Jujutsu Sorcerer, besides Gojo, thanks to his Cursed Technique. During the Shibuya Incident, he was assigned to the Zenin team alongside Maki and Nobara but was joined up by Nanami...
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