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JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.

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Lightning speed for Kashimo is more aligned with what Gege seems to portray, especially since the attack is meant to be so ridiculously fast that it's practically guaranteed to hit.
 
AdNiBN002 said:
This implies that being stronger than someone automaticallly means they're faster by proxy, which is not really the case within the JJK verse.
Click to expand...
AP, Dura, Speed etc via Reinforcement usually scale relative

Only exceptions I can think of are the Projection Sorcery sorcerers and Jogo/Hanami. Not really the norm

and narratively it wouldn’t make much sense for Rika to be this big threat if she’d get blitzed or even just completely outsped by Year 2 Gojo tiers despite Geto’s confidence and Gojo almost reassuring Geto’s confidence
 
Jo-Smooth said:
AP, Dura, Speed etc via Reinforcement usually scale relative

Only exceptions I can think of are the Projection Sorcery sorcerers and Jogo/Hanami. Not really the norm

and narratively it wouldn’t make much sense for Rika to be this big threat if she’d get blitzed or even just completely outsped by Year 2 Gojo tiers despite Geto’s confidence and Gojo almost reassuring Geto’s confidence
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, by proxy the only main requirement is for them not to be slow enough for the counterpart to immediately blitz them.
And that alongside 3F Sukuna, Jogo, Toji/Maki and the Projection Sorcerers. Gives us quite a lot of examples of AP and Speed scaling not aligning within the verse.

And as for the Volume 0 Gojo - Rika scaling.
This would technically put Max power Geto above Volume 0 Gojo due to the Kenjaku statement of him having beaten Yuta if his forces weren't split, which goes against narrative quite heavily.
 
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AdNiBN002 said:
Not necessarily, by proxy the only main requirement is for them not to be slow enough for the counterpart to immediately blitz them.
And that alongside 3F Sukuna, Jogo, Toji/Maki and the Projection Sorcerers. Gives us quite a lot of examples of AP and Speed scaling not aligning within the verse.

And as for the Volume 0 Gojo - Rika scaling.
This would technically put Max power Geto above Volume 0 Gojo due to the Kenjaku statement of him having beaten Yuta if his forces weren't split, which goes against narrative quite heavily.
Click to expand...
3 Finger Sukuna isn't an inconsistency. He scales above most of the verse, up to around Mahoraga by his own words. His speed being comparable to or above Maki and Toji isn't anything inconsistent. Jogo is a special case as Gege said that Jogo and Hanami are basically relative in overall strength, but Jogo has a type advantage. Hanami is more durable while Jogo is faster. He's an exception. Toji and Maki aren't exceptions. Projection Sorcerers are the literal definition of exceptions since their technique is literally a speed based technique, and even then Naoya's AP is high enough to smack Maki around and potentially break her ribs while at the same time being inferior in AP and speed to Yuta

And I already brought up Jogo and the Projection Sorcerers as exceptions

It's like Yoruichi and Soi Fon in Bleach who have some of the highest tier speed scaling depending on the arc but aren't the strongest, while almost everyone else scales all around. Or like the Raikage's and Minato in Naruto.

It's like trying to use the outlier characters and applying those rules to the rest. Specifically in JJK, everyone mentioned there either has in verse explanations, techniques, or special extra notes by Gege.

As for the Geto and Volume 0 Gojo thing, it's only inconsistent if you think of Volume 0 Gojo as = to Manga Gojo.

1.) When they were teens, Gojo and Geto were considered relative in strength as 'the strongest', and when they got into an argument, it was implied that Gojo and Geto used to fight a lot. Not trying to kill each other obviously, but you know what I mean. And if you say Toji needed prep for Gojo but not for Geto, that's because of Gojo's technique and the six eyes, not for his overall stats.

They were supposed to be relative prior to Gojo's first awakening

2.) Then Gojo gets his awakening and eclipses everyone, becoming something closer to the broken Gojo we know in year 3 and getting stronger.

3.) Then, Geto gets his own awakening and snaps after he deserts the Jujutsu World, does his own training while specifically planning on combating Gojo and the entire Jujutsu World. He also has been gathering curses and a team for this cause.

4.) Geto was confident there was a 99% chance that simply acquiring Rika would allow him to not only defeat Gojo but the entire Jujutsu World if they all combined their forces. And in the pages immediately before that, Gojo tells the principal that he knows Geto wouldn't make empty bluffs or a plan that he wasn't sure would succeed.

5.) This is supported by earlier in the manga, Gojo saying that he'd risk his life stopping Rika if she ever rampaged and broke free, and idr if this was movie only or in the manga too, but he told Yuta not to let Rika loose again as he's not sure if he could stop her if it happens.

6.) Even someone like Miguel, who was a random addition for hire that Geto found and not a part of Geto's 'family' was strong enough that Gojo felt like he needed to stay and fight Miguel rather than immediately handling Geto. Gojo was serious and they even said that he snapped or was pissed off when fighting Miguel. And there's never been another fight in the series where he immediately takes off his blindfold before the fight even starts. The only other time he took off the blindfold without doing it for some special technique was when the Special Grade Curses started murdering civilians in the train station.

Not saying Miguel is as strong as Gojo, but Geto assessed how strong Miguel was and figured he'd be able to stall Gojo long enough for him to get Rika. And Gojo lowkey confirms Geto's power assessment of him is correct by actually staying to fight Miguel. And Miguel is under Geto in terms of overall strength.

Basically, points 4, 5 and 6 are all connected by Geto's plan actually being for the most part correct. The only mistake he made was underestimating how strong Yuta was and how his potential could carry him. He and Gojo didn't realize it was Yuta that made Rika strong and not the other way around until the end.

7.) Geto's plan wasn't to overpower Rika. Physical stat wise, he was relative to her and Yuta. But his plan was to kill Yuta and subdue Rika with his hax. Now, Geto's Maximum Technique at full power is stronger than Yuta and Rika's full potential (at the time).

That doesn't put Geto in general above Gojo, it put's Geto's one time technique that takes every single curse he's acquired over the years along with his own cursed energy amped by whatever level a maximum technique amps you to, and outputs it as one blast...over Gojo from Volume 0.

Now keep in mind, Yuki existed at this time as even then it was noted there were 4 special grade sorcerers including Yuta as the newest. And we find out in Shibuya that Yuki thinks she's strong enough to take on Kenjaku, who she has to assume is at the very worst = to Geto, and Uraume at the same time. With a very heavy lowball, we can at least say she scales to Geto. This would mean that all the Special Grades in Volume 0 scaled relative to each other, but Geto with his specific set of abilities acquiring Rika just tips things all the way in his balance.

Fun fact, in JJK 0, Gojo was never once called the strongest. Its only in the actual series which takes place after 0 where he was objectively known as the strongest. Even in the Hidden Inventory arc, it was self proclaimed, and people like Yuki who was already a special grade existed back then
 
It kinda feels like Gojo was the opposite of retconned in the main series, the Vol 0 ver. seems less than what is portrayed in the main series, but that's just me
 
Arkenis said:
Just for everyone besides anyone controversial, subsonic. People like Naobito, Naoya and Maki and Toji and others are subsonic+ to hypersonic.
Click to expand...
I'm lazy to explain some of these so,

Something like

Naobito- Atleast Subsonic+, up to Transonic/Supersonic (Justification)

Human Naoya- Subsonic+, up to Transonic (Justification)

Cursed Womb Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+ (Should be as fast as before), up to Supersonic (Maki stated he had already surpassed the speed of sound as a Cursed Spirit).

Cursed Spirit Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+(should be faster than before), can accelerate up to Supersonic+(his speed was stated to have reached Mach 3).

Fully Heavenly Restricted, Partially Realized Maki- Atleast Transonic(Tagged Human Naoya at Max Speed while Fatigued and Losing blood), with Supersonic Reactions (Reacted to Cursed Womb Naoya, who she stated had surpassed the speed of sound).

Fully Realized Heavenly Restricted Maki-Atleast Hypersonic(Evaded Cursed Spirit Naoya at Max Speed, twice. Caught up to curse Spirit Naoya on foot while he was accelerating to Mach 3).

Zen'in Toji - Atleast Hypersonic ( Fully Realized Maki is stated to be on par with him

The Hypersonic rating depends on if the calc is done well and evaluation is positive.
Atleast Supersonic+ can placehold Maki and Toji's ratings in that case till another calc
 
Shey said:
I'm lazy to explain some of these so,

Something like

Naobito- Atleast Subsonic+, up to Transonic/Supersonic (Justification)

Human Naoya- Subsonic+, up to Transonic (Justification)

Cursed Womb Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+ (Should be as fast as before), up to Supersonic (Maki stated he had already surpassed the speed of sound as a Cursed Spirit).

Cursed Spirit Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+(should be faster than before), can accelerate up to Supersonic+(his speed was stated to have reached Mach 3).

Fully Heavenly Restricted, Partially Realized Maki- Atleast Transonic(Tagged Human Naoya at Max Speed while Fatigued and Losing blood), with Supersonic Reactions (Reacted to Cursed Womb Naoya, who she stated had surpassed the speed of sound).

Fully Realized Heavenly Restricted Maki-Atleast Hypersonic(Evaded Cursed Spirit Naoya at Max Speed, twice. Caught up to curse Spirit Naoya on foot while he was accelerating to Mach 3).

Zen'in Toji - Atleast Hypersonic ( Fully Realized Maki is stated to be on par with him

The Hypersonic rating depends on if the calc is done well and evaluation is positive.
Atleast Supersonic+ can placehold Maki and Toji's ratings in that case till another calc
Click to expand...
Yes im fine with this.
 
Shey said:
He should get scaling to Transonic via scaling >= Naoya.

What was the 8-A+ calc again?, iirc it's very close to Low 7-C, enough to upscale to baseline.
I should leave that discussion for ap thread
Click to expand...
so bOth get transonic due to max speed yeah?
 
Shey said:
I'm lazy to explain some of these so,

Something like

Naobito- Atleast Subsonic+, up to Transonic/Supersonic (Justification)

Human Naoya- Subsonic+, up to Transonic (Justification)

Cursed Womb Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+ (Should be as fast as before), up to Supersonic (Maki stated he had already surpassed the speed of sound as a Cursed Spirit).

Cursed Spirit Naoya-Atleast Subsonic+(should be faster than before), can accelerate up to Supersonic+(his speed was stated to have reached Mach 3).

Fully Heavenly Restricted, Partially Realized Maki- Atleast Transonic(Tagged Human Naoya at Max Speed while Fatigued and Losing blood), with Supersonic Reactions (Reacted to Cursed Womb Naoya, who she stated had surpassed the speed of sound).

Fully Realized Heavenly Restricted Maki-Atleast Hypersonic(Evaded Cursed Spirit Naoya at Max Speed, twice. Caught up to curse Spirit Naoya on foot while he was accelerating to Mach 3).

Zen'in Toji - Atleast Hypersonic ( Fully Realized Maki is stated to be on par with him

The Hypersonic rating depends on if the calc is done well and evaluation is positive.
Atleast Supersonic+ can placehold Maki and Toji's ratings in that case till another calc
Click to expand...
There is no need for at least in all those ratings, they are solid
 
Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level+ (Damaged Dagon repeatedly. Able to punch through Dagon's water shield which Nanami couldn't do even while in Overtime), higher with Projection Sorcery (Projection Sorcery increases one's speed which increases force resulting in a higher output of strength)

Speed: Subsonic+ (Naobito is known throughout the Jujutsu world as being the fastest sorcerer alive. Naobito is also stated to be probably faster than Jogo by Dagon), Transonic with Max Speed (Projection Sorcery can be used to amp speed to the point of surpassing subsonic speeds)

Alright this is Naobito's ratings
 
Pain_to12 said:
There is no need for at least in all those ratings, they are solid
Click to expand...
Naoya and Naobito require atleast, they speed up.

Partially Realized is already explained right there, she was Fatigued and losing blood
Fully realized Maki's own feat was casually and is demonstrably much faster.

The atleast ratings stand
 
Arkenis said:
Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level+ (Damaged Dagon repeatedly. Able to punch through Dagon's water shield which Nanami couldn't do even while in Overtime), higher with Projection Sorcery (Projection Sorcery increases one's speed which increases force resulting in a higher output of strength)

Speed: Subsonic+ (Naobito is known throughout the Jujutsu world as being the fastest sorcerer alive. Naobito is also stated to be probably faster than Jogo by Dagon), Transonic with Max Speed (Projection Sorcery can be used to amp speed to the point of surpassing subsonic speeds)

Alright this is Naobito's ratings
Click to expand...
Putting an Atleast and Up to would help signify he gets faster, cause they continously stack the technique and accelerate
 
Shey said:
Naoya and Naobito require atleast, they speed up.

Partially Realized is already explained right there, she was Fatigued and losing blood
Fully realized Maki's own feat was casually and is demonstrably much faster.

The atleast ratings stand
Click to expand...
No they don't.
Maki has a calc she is not faster than her own calc.
Naoya has a statement he is not faster than his own statement.

Tagging someone means you scale to them, blitzing someone is what gets you an "at least"

The at least is nonsense to say the least.
 
Yeah I think the at least is used if they show something above that but then that means they're basically supersonic. The max speed of projection sorcery is supersonic though so idk.
 
Speed ratings could look something like this

Naoya
Subsonic+ to Transonic

Naobito
Subsonic+ to Transonic

Cursed Womb Naoya
Subsonic+ to Supersonic

Vengeful Spirit Naoya
Supersonic to Supersonic+

Maki
Subsonic+ with Supersonic reactions | Hypersonic

Toji
Subsonic+ with Supersonic reactions | Hypersonic
 
Steve_Rogers1 said:
Speed ratings could look something like this

Naoya
Subsonic+ to Transonic

Naobito
Subsonic+ to Transonic

Cursed Womb Naoya
Subsonic+ to Supersonic

Vengeful Spirit Naoya
Supersonic to Supersonic+

Maki
Subsonic+ with Supersonic reactions | Hypersonic

Toji
Subsonic+ with Supersonic reactions | Hypersonic
Click to expand...
Why does Toji have a Subsonic to Supersonic key?
 
The base Subsonic ratings isn't really needed for the Projection Sorcerers.
They should just be "Transonic, higher at top speed"
 
Steve_Rogers1 said:
Toji in Hidden Inventory states that he is rusty
Click to expand...
That is true albeit
Steve_Rogers1 said:
and he scales to a Partially Realized Maki.
Click to expand...
He kinda doesn't, that's Toji Fushiguro who was stated to have declined in respect to Toji Zenin, Maki had always been compared to Toji Zenin by characters, though she herself blatantly declares her inferiority to him.

Only until she's fully realized, directly stated by narration does Zenin Toji scale to her, Fushiguro Toji/Hidden Inventory Toji would just downscale from his prime
 
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