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JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.
- Thread starter PrinceofPein
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Rather solid straight up statement of her true awakening an directly stated by narration to be on par with him
She's way way way faster than, going from catching up to him in flight, evading him repeatedly with negative difficulty and straight up blitzing him mid attack once again, on top the Domain Expansion's Stat amp.
Come on man, quit the downplay.
Naoya isn't remotely on her level
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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A single statement without direct showing is shaky
Only one feat is notable, all the others were already explained above.
And also you call attacking someone from behind blitzing them?
Saying this is as shameless as Maki herself.
Except he quite is, she getting stronger and more used to her body won't change that they are comparable
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it isnt shaky at all imo
thats been the narrative intention of this entire fight. The narrator is telling you, she's equal to toji
thats been the narrative intention of this entire fight. The narrator is telling you, she's equal to toji
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Oh my bad I did not see it was the narrator, thought it was the thought of the samurai.
If that was the narrator then it looks fine
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tbh Maki being equal to Toji isn't really shaky at all, considering the numerous implications of her being his equal. Heck, there's even a databook statement stating her from the time she massacred the zenin clan to being equal to Toji.
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Its not just a single statement, incase you missed it's been stated a few more times prior.
Do you have a defeating argument against this supposedly "shaky statement"
I was referring to when She Split him in half Mid Attack
Getting absolutely bodied isn't "Comparable" dawg
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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Arkenis/sandboxforNaoya
vsbattles.fandom.com
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At least Supersonic as Vengeful Spirit | At least Subsonic+ as Vengeful Spirit, Supersonic+ when Increasing Speed (Naoya is able to draw in air into his body and use thrusting pressure and curse energy to compress and eject it for increased propulsion reaching Mach 3[8])Arkenis/sandboxforNaoya
The last key should be Atleast Supersonic, Supersonic+
Also with all that Upscaling he should be up to Low 7-C
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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im mainly upscaling from Kusakabe and Chojuro for ap. Idk how the site handles upscaling but yeah Low 7-C is fine.
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are you doing an image for human curse naoya
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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When it comes out maybe, but considering that seems like him only in Domain it's probably not important enough
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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Okay so looking at the speed scaling after the recent chapters makes this a bit more iffy that i'd like, but here's my proposition for how the scaling should look as of now. I'll try to explain some of the notable choices along the way but feel free to interject anywhere.
I didn't include Hidden Inventory Toji (and by extention "honoured one" Gojo) as that's something I think could take up an entire discussion by itself, same with what value to use on Kashimo's Electric Discharge, but hopefully this can be a good starting point.
I didn't include Hidden Inventory Toji (and by extention "honoured one" Gojo) as that's something I think could take up an entire discussion by itself, same with what value to use on Kashimo's Electric Discharge, but hopefully this can be a good starting point.
Currently based on This Calc
Effectively everybody in the verse should be qualified for this value (Even introduction Megumi and Nobara), as it's stated in ch. 21 that Sorcerers are closer in level to the Cursed Spirit above their designated rank (Example being Grade 2 Sorcerer ~ Grade 1 Curse).
Assuming this to be consistent through the rankings, it would mean that Grade 3 Nobara would be relative to the Grade 2 Curse that Yuji fought in ch. 1
Even though Megumi did struggle against the Grade 2, he himself stated that he wasn't thinking straight during that matchup and was likely not an accurate depiction of his ability.
As such, everyone from the low-tiers to mid-tiers (speed wise) should scale to this value.
With the lowest being Grade 3 Sorcerers (+Junpei) and the highest being Grade 1 Sorcerers alongside the Disaster Curses.
Alternatively;
We have This Version of Maki's bullet catch still in need of evaluation. Assuming it gets accepted it will stay within the Subsonic range and scale similarly to the calc above (although with the exception of maybe introduction Nobara and Megumi).
Effectively everybody in the verse should be qualified for this value (Even introduction Megumi and Nobara), as it's stated in ch. 21 that Sorcerers are closer in level to the Cursed Spirit above their designated rank (Example being Grade 2 Sorcerer ~ Grade 1 Curse).
Assuming this to be consistent through the rankings, it would mean that Grade 3 Nobara would be relative to the Grade 2 Curse that Yuji fought in ch. 1
Even though Megumi did struggle against the Grade 2, he himself stated that he wasn't thinking straight during that matchup and was likely not an accurate depiction of his ability.
As such, everyone from the low-tiers to mid-tiers (speed wise) should scale to this value.
With the lowest being Grade 3 Sorcerers (+Junpei) and the highest being Grade 1 Sorcerers alongside the Disaster Curses.
Alternatively;
We have This Version of Maki's bullet catch still in need of evaluation. Assuming it gets accepted it will stay within the Subsonic range and scale similarly to the calc above (although with the exception of maybe introduction Nobara and Megumi).
Based upon the statement of Piercing Blood exceeding the speed of sound
This should scale to the following characters:
Naoya Zen'in (Human)
Was shown to be capable of dodging Choso's Piercing blood while caught by suprise.
Noritoshi Kamo (Kyoto student; Piercing Blood)
Given his possesion of Piercing Blood similarly to Choso, the statement of it surpassing the speed of sound should apply to him aswell.
Toge Inumaki (Cursed Speech)
Cursed Speech is described as sound infused with Cursed Energy.
Choso (Shibuya Incident; Piercing Blood)
Self explanatory
Naoya Zen'in (Cursed Womb)
Fought against Maki, was additionally stated to exceed the speed of sound.
Choso: Flowing Red Scale Stack (Itadori extermination incident)
Fought and adjusted to Naoya's speed
Maki Zen'in (Perfect preperation)
Was shown to be capable of fighting against Naoya
Naoya Zen'in (Humanoid Cursed Spirit)
While Naoya's previous form was capable reaching Mach 3 speeds, a key factor behind this is his ability to draw in air through inlets and utilizing thrusting pressure.
As this version of Naoya does not possess this, he should just scale unquantifiably above his Cursed Womb state rather than his Mach 3 state.
Alternatively;
If we were to scale Human Naoya to Yuta, this would promt all the characters in this section who scale to and/or above Human Naoya to reach the speed of Geto's Supersonic calc instead.
This might be possible as Choso considers the idea of playing chase with Naoya to be notably bad (which is interesting to note, as the alternative in this scenario would be playing chase with Yuta).
This isn't as solid the Transonic scaling but I considered it worth mentioning nontheless.
This should scale to the following characters:
Naoya Zen'in (Human)
Was shown to be capable of dodging Choso's Piercing blood while caught by suprise.
Noritoshi Kamo (Kyoto student; Piercing Blood)
Given his possesion of Piercing Blood similarly to Choso, the statement of it surpassing the speed of sound should apply to him aswell.
Toge Inumaki (Cursed Speech)
Cursed Speech is described as sound infused with Cursed Energy.
Choso (Shibuya Incident; Piercing Blood)
Self explanatory
Naoya Zen'in (Cursed Womb)
Fought against Maki, was additionally stated to exceed the speed of sound.
Choso: Flowing Red Scale Stack (Itadori extermination incident)
Fought and adjusted to Naoya's speed
Maki Zen'in (Perfect preperation)
Was shown to be capable of fighting against Naoya
Naoya Zen'in (Humanoid Cursed Spirit)
While Naoya's previous form was capable reaching Mach 3 speeds, a key factor behind this is his ability to draw in air through inlets and utilizing thrusting pressure.
As this version of Naoya does not possess this, he should just scale unquantifiably above his Cursed Womb state rather than his Mach 3 state.
Alternatively;
If we were to scale Human Naoya to Yuta, this would promt all the characters in this section who scale to and/or above Human Naoya to reach the speed of Geto's Supersonic calc instead.
This might be possible as Choso considers the idea of playing chase with Naoya to be notably bad (which is interesting to note, as the alternative in this scenario would be playing chase with Yuta).
This isn't as solid the Transonic scaling but I considered it worth mentioning nontheless.
Currently based on This Calc
This should scale to the following characters:
Naobito Zen'in
Said to be the fastest Sorcerer besides Gojo, which would make him faster than Volume 0 Yuta.
Yuta Okkotsu (Both iterations)
During the Night Parade of 100 Demons he was capable of fighting and surpassing the speed of Geto.
As for his Culling Game version, he stated his intention of killing Kenjaku by himself, with the knowledge of Kenjaku possesing Geto's body. As such he should likely be just as fast as his Volume 0 version at a minimum.
Ryu Ishigori
Fought Yuta throughout the Sendai showdown.
Takako Uro
Fought Ishigori and Yuta
Kurourushi
Could fight against Yuta
Kinji Hakari (Jackpot)
Implied to be stronger than Yuta
Hajime Kashimo
Fought against Jackpot Hakari
This should scale to the following characters:
Naobito Zen'in
Said to be the fastest Sorcerer besides Gojo, which would make him faster than Volume 0 Yuta.
Yuta Okkotsu (Both iterations)
During the Night Parade of 100 Demons he was capable of fighting and surpassing the speed of Geto.
As for his Culling Game version, he stated his intention of killing Kenjaku by himself, with the knowledge of Kenjaku possesing Geto's body. As such he should likely be just as fast as his Volume 0 version at a minimum.
Ryu Ishigori
Fought Yuta throughout the Sendai showdown.
Takako Uro
Fought Ishigori and Yuta
Kurourushi
Could fight against Yuta
Kinji Hakari (Jackpot)
Implied to be stronger than Yuta
Hajime Kashimo
Fought against Jackpot Hakari
Based upon the statement of Naoya reaching Mach 3
This should scale to the following characters:
Maki Zen'in (Culling Game)
Fought and outmaneuvered Naoya, additionally catching him by suprise.
Sukuna (15 finger)
Should be vastly superior to his 4 finger version, who already had speed compared to Toji.
Toji Zen'in
Has been parrareled to Maki on multiple occasions.
Gojo (Adult)
Self explanatory.
This should scale to the following characters:
Maki Zen'in (Culling Game)
Fought and outmaneuvered Naoya, additionally catching him by suprise.
Sukuna (15 finger)
Should be vastly superior to his 4 finger version, who already had speed compared to Toji.
Toji Zen'in
Has been parrareled to Maki on multiple occasions.
Gojo (Adult)
Self explanatory.
Last edited:
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Unless there are anti-feat, Gojo and Sukuna would scale to their own calcs
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Pretty sure it was explained that Hakari (Jackpot) scales to his own Lightning dodging feat too, by extension Kashimo too and others who would scale
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If we assume the sound statements as valid this wouldn’t make sense. You can’t have it both ways. All 12 or so subsonic to supersonic feats would be invalidated as Maki was blitzed by mach 3 and even subsonic Noaya speed was touted as something ridiculously fast.
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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I don't see how that would be nonsensical, JJK as a franchise has quite consistently shown that numerical increases that aren't particularly big still have major consequence in combat.
(I.E how Mahito was completely outclassing Yuji after getting a 2x AP and Durability increase).
A SoS Maki getting blitzed by Mach 3 Naoya wouldn't be any different.
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That goes against the whole narrative my friend. If Naoya achieving subsonic speeds is supposed to be impressive enough that initial transformed Maki was having trouble with him (a Maki who at this point casually could kill her Father via blitzed and literally ran through an entire squadron of Grade 1 sorcerors and physically inclined individuals) then it makes absolutely 0 sense for Torunament arc Yuji, Megumi, Pre-transformed Maki, etc., to be anywhere near the subsonic range. Maki literally has 3-4 subsonic-supersonic feats in her fight vs Mai, Yuji himself has 2-3 subsonic movement feats (not even reaction), and Megumi and others similarly have feats in the subsonic to supersonic range littered throughout the manga. This makes no sense if Human Naoya PS speed being subsonic is supposed to some crazy level of speed.
No. Maki was blitzed from several dozens of meters. Given this, Maki would be around peak human levels of reaction for failing to react to Naoya in time, at mach 3 speeds.
Arkenis
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Fortunately Gege doesn’t see it that way. Unless you think everyone’s just been superhuman.
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Welcome to JJK where we have Subsonics blitzing Subsonics and Mach 3 throttling Mach 1
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Isn't peak human Naoya stated to be subsonic?
AdNiBN002
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Narratively and with manga info:
Human Naoya Top Speed (Sound/Supersonic) > Well into his fight wiht Maki Human Naoya (Above Subsonic) > Subsonic
With subsonic supposedly being really impressive and seemingly only reached by Naoya and others who scale to or above.
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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Seeing as the Naoya statement implies that he's surpassed Subsonic in its entirety, I find it easier to believe that Transonic is the speed range meant to be impressive rather than prior range which he's already left.
With that in mind, it would still be narratively consistent for the low-to-mid tiers to be Subsonic as Naoya would have superseded them even before reaching max speed.
With that in mind, it would still be narratively consistent for the low-to-mid tiers to be Subsonic as Naoya would have superseded them even before reaching max speed.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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I don’t really see the issue with Mach 3 blitzing mach 1. Like realistically if you saw the difference in speed with a mach 1 object and mach 3 object it’d be clearly obvious just how bad a blitz would happen, especially up close and the fact these characters can only react and fight not travel that speed with only mainly Naobito and Naoya showing such feats.
Arkenis
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Yeah agree. Mid-High Tier transonic is unironically consistent asf in Jjk
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It would not as that’s not how speed works. It would also, once again, be completely ignoring all the near mach 1 feats and supersonic feats from those characters. The point being it’s not consistent.
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peak human naoya was faster than sound per maki's admission, with acceleration of course
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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Even if he can technically do it, it's likely out of character for him to use so I'd refrain from it.
(Although it's crazy to think that a normal Naobito might actually be faster than stacked Naoya)
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Viz translations are wrong as they cut out an entire part of dialog where she says he was supersonic as a cursed womb. As seen with the previous response below. "Young Body" meaning cursed womb in this context. Sometimes saying "juvenile" instead of young.peak human naoya was faster than sound per maki's admission, with acceleration of course
AdNiBN002
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But the low-tier to mid-tier feats would all effectively be bottlenecked due to Yuji being slower than Piercing Blood.
On the contrary, the high-tiers all receive a floor (even ignoring the SoS statements and feats) by Naoya being baseline Transonic at a minimum.
I don't really see the inconsistency here, the only way this would be inconsistent is if:
- The mid-tiers were within the Transonic range (which goes against the Yuji < Piercing Blood premise)
- The high-tiers were below Transonic (which would contradict the Naoya > Subsonic statement)
- Yuji and Naoya both just so happens to fall exactly at Mach 0.9.
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A Mach 3 blitzing a Mach 1 from well outside of melee range is not consistent
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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Consistent in JJK,
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