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Jujutsu Kaisen - Scale

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Let me add my input here
Durability even with Cursed energy reinforcement is shown to vary in Jujutsu Kaisen

Yuji is physically stronger than Todo yet the Mere shockwave of Mahito’s first black flash battered his head and it took him a while to get back up.

Meanwhile Todo when he focused his cursed energy to his solar plexus and torso area(a weak spot for humans) he could take a direct Black Flash from Mahito with Mild damage

So it’s possibly not inconsistent for Hanami to have higher durability than Jogo at her peak if she focuses it that way.
People will probably disagree with this take though.
 
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Indeed I am such a person who disagrees.
Hanami has higher dura can take more punishment.

They have similar AP but Hanami has higher Dura. This is from WoG.
If it breaks the scaling, that means the scaling is wrong.

Time to rethink it with the WoG statement in mind.

It should also be noted that Hanami has a weakpoint.
This should factor into who scales, because certain characters only attacked the branches and others attacked all over
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Obviously they would not speak so specifically. They are fighting for their lives

Hanami is not usually more durable than Jogo, it is only at most. If we consider that he is normally more durable than Jogo, he would also be stronger in terms of AP, which is false. I explained this in the blog
Click to expand...

Isn't it confirmed by the authors that Hanami is more durable than Jogo. This seems to be stretching things a bit to fit this power scale.

And we know for sure AP and durability don't necessarily scale when techniques come in.

Just because you have a super powerful technique doesn't mean you're more durable than someone with a weaker technique.

Also Gege's justification for Jogo being stronger than Hanami is specifically "type advantage" which is basically Fire > Wood in the general sense of things.

I think the main problem many people have here is that a lot of people conflate AP with techniques to durability when durability only scales to ordinary AP with punches and kicks.

The techniques like Jogo's meteors or Domains, etc are more like magic in this case.

They don't scale to durability at all considering how many characters with vastly superior techniques we have seen go toe to toe and even get hurt by people whose techniques are vastly weaker.
 
Simply put: Domain Expansion can be scaled to AP but it can not be scaled to Durability.

Domain expansion and curse techniques in general are TECHNIQUES, not only are their use of curse energy different, they basically convert it into a different form. From curse energy to fire or wood or even spatial power.

Durability should only ever scale to raw AP with cursed energy and physical strength because that's what is actually channelled in the body. Apart from someone like Gojo who uses his technique to enhance his durability. Everyone else is only using raw cursed energy flowing through their body for their durability. If they were using their techniques in unique ways to enhance their durability, we will be directly told (like Gojo's case or even Choso).
 
Actually this discussion is only about AP, I will create a thread about speed later. This discussion was finished, but two new people appeared who question the conclusion
 
Gitagon said:
Isn't it confirmed by the authors that Hanami is more durable than Jogo. This seems to be stretching things a bit to fit this power scale.

And we know for sure AP and durability don't necessarily scale when techniques come in.

Just because you have a super powerful technique doesn't mean you're more durable than someone with a weaker technique.

Also Gege's justification for Jogo being stronger than Hanami is specifically "type advantage" which is basically Fire > Wood in the general sense of things.

I think the main problem many people have here is that a lot of people conflate AP with techniques to durability when durability only scales to ordinary AP with punches and kicks.

The techniques like Jogo's meteors or Domains, etc are more like magic in this case.

They don't scale to durability at all considering how many characters with vastly superior techniques we have seen go toe to toe and even get hurt by people whose techniques are vastly weaker.
Click to expand...
Bro, you have answered an old argument.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
I really don't understand your point. I am not scaling the domain expansion to Dagon's normal AP, I am scaling it to Jogo's for obvious reasons. From the beginning Naobito felt the cursed energy of Dagon's dimension and was surprised only by the invocation. So if Naobito says that a specific character is on a higher and completely different level compared to Dagon, then he scales up from the pocket dimension
Click to expand...
If we don't scale Dagon's Domain Expansion to his normal AP, then there is no basis to scale Jogo to it since Jogo was dealing with severely injured opponents and failed to insta-kill them anyway. We can say that Jogo's Domain > Dagon's Domain and that Jogo > Dagon.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
I'll look for some later. But there is also the option of using the Jujutsu scale. Dagon able to fight Naobito, Maki and Nanami simultaneously. Hanami almost loses in a fight against Todo and Itadori, then it is considerable that Dagon True Form is stronger than Hanami. So if a anyone is strongest than the Dagon is strongest than the Hanami
Click to expand...
Naobito solo'd Dagon and stomped him before Dagon activated Domain Expansion. Dagon was stomping the trio with his Domain's insta-hit before Megumi cancelled it with his Domain, and Dagon was more injured by Maki's Playful Cloud than Hanami was.
The fight against Hanami was a stalemate, with Aoi/Yuji being unable to take down Hanami with their best attacks, while Hanami being unable to land his attacks due to Aoi's technique. Even when Hanami was going to fire a giant Cursed Energy blast, he was going to activate his Domain Expansion first since it would be easy for Aoi to dodge with his technique.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
I know. But again, if we do this the scale will become a clutter and contradictory, and all of this can be solved simply by adding a "At most" in the profile. The wiki make the same thing in the Kimetsu
Click to expand...
The proposed scale already contains clutter and contradiction + Accuracy is the priority, overtime profiles can be refined to be more organized.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
Actually If you consider that Hanami has a higher durability than Jogo in every time you will destroy the scale, not me
Click to expand...
Hanami canonically and consistently has higher durability than Jogo every time.

Perhaps your proposed scale will be destroyed, but a more accurate, a more coherent, and a more consistent scale will take its place.
 
I’m gonna ask again what’s wrong with using the scale the series gave again?

It’s pretty obvious with how controversial this is that our calcs aren’t meshing with the series intent.

The best thing we can do is use that scale, what we’re shown these characters can do and calcs that fit this because weird things like tier 7 Grade 2 sorcerers, tier 7 Maki etc make no sense.
 
The issue I have, is it is TRUE that Jogo > Dagon.
But just because Dagon creates a "mountain level" domain, doesn't mean Dagon's attacks are mountain Level.
Necessarily because Maki takes hits from Dagon inside the Domain both from fish and from a kick, you'd have to say Maki is Mountain Level.

I think the issue is trying to say that Dagon's Domain is mountain level and that scales to anything.
Creating the Domain doesn't mean the attacks Dagon has within the Domain are mountain level.
 
RageComment said:
The issue I have, is it is TRUE that Jogo > Dagon.
But just because Dagon creates a "mountain level" domain, doesn't mean Dagon's attacks are mountain Level.
Necessarily because Maki takes hits from Dagon inside the Domain both from fish and from a kick, you'd have to say Maki is Mountain Level.

I think the issue is trying to say that Dagon's Domain is mountain level and that scales to anything.
Creating the Domain doesn't mean the attacks Dagon has within the Domain are mountain level.
Click to expand...
I respectfully understand this take on the matter and am neutral towards it
I’ll wait for further opinions on that
 
RageComment said:
The issue I have, is it is TRUE that Jogo > Dagon.
But just because Dagon creates a "mountain level" domain, doesn't mean Dagon's attacks are mountain Level.
Necessarily because Maki takes hits from Dagon inside the Domain both from fish and from a kick, you'd have to say Maki is Mountain Level.

I think the issue is trying to say that Dagon's Domain is mountain level and that scales to anything.
Creating the Domain doesn't mean the attacks Dagon has within the Domain are mountain level.
Click to expand...
pretty much agree with this
 
RageComment said:
The issue I have, is it is TRUE that Jogo > Dagon.
But just because Dagon creates a "mountain level" domain, doesn't mean Dagon's attacks are mountain Level.
Necessarily because Maki takes hits from Dagon inside the Domain both from fish and from a kick, you'd have to say Maki is Mountain Level.

I think the issue is trying to say that Dagon's Domain is mountain level and that scales to anything.
Creating the Domain doesn't mean the attacks Dagon has within the Domain are mountain level.
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
Upon further inspection myself I find myself seeing the main issue in this scale is that Dagon’s attacks inside the domain scaling

As Rage said Maki would be mountain level
Not only her but Naobito and Nanami(Maybe he’d be 7-B+ since Dagon focused only 30% of his power towards him)too since they took hits from Dagon inside the domain
 
Oh no okay I've just read through the new responses and I'd like to make this clear it would be absolutely absurd to say that Dagon's attacks themselves are mountain level that would actually be crazy. We can all accept Dagon's domain creation as mountain level and Jogo's is as well those both have accepted calc's and are consistent to characters of that tier, we also know Jogo>Dagon so that lines up. I'm understanding where the problem with scaling these top-high tiers entire AP and Durability above anything Dagon does or at the very least jogo in this case because that does mess up a good portion of the scaling chain in that case. I'd also like to make clear I wasn't arguing that Dagon's general attacks in his domain were mountain level and that the creation itself was what jogo scaled above in his stats which I'm forfeiting in all but AP due to Jogo having a Maximum technique which would scale

Only Jogo's maximum technique and Domain expansion should be mountain level (his Maximum Meteor because it's stated by Kamo that apart from Domain Expansions Maximum technique's are cursed techniques most supreme arts)

Any one of the god tiers who're Supreme grade sorcerer's and 15 finger Sukuna should scale though I believe should indeed keep their AP and Dura tiers of Mountain level since they actually undoubtedly scale far above anything else the lower tiers can do even their domains and Maximum Techniques.
 
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Yoyco said:
pretty much agree with this
Click to expand...
LIFE_OF_KING said:
... Excuse me, but did you really read something? NOBODY is scaleing the domain for Dagon
Click to expand...
Okay, I think most of them didn't understand anything that was being said and just read the first comment they saw

The real discussion: It is being debated whether Jogo really scales above Dagon's Domain Expansion by a statement and some evidence. NO ONE is trying to scale Dagon's attack potency via the domain. Dagon normal AP is High 7-C
 
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Yeah that's partly true we hadn't scaled Dagon to his domain and weren't even close to arguing that, we argued that since the creation was mountain level and since Jogo in base was considered far beyond anything they saw Dagon do that he should scale up from the domain creation. I'm not arguing that now as I've posted my stance but I'm informing because people aren't reading that this was the point that was being debated not that we were scaling dagon to his domain which never happened
 
Dalesean027 said:
Oh no okay I've just read through the new responses and I'd like to make this clear it would be absolutely absurd to say that Dagon's attacks themselves are mountain level that would actually be crazy. We can all accept Dagon's domain creation as mountain level and Jogo's is as well those both have accepted calc's and are consistent to characters of that tier, we also know Jogo>Dagon so that lines up. I'm understanding where the problem with scaling these top-high tiers entire AP and Durability above anything Dagon does or at the very least jogo in this case because that does mess up a good portion of the scaling chain in that case. I'd also like to make clear I wasn't arguing that Dagon's general attacks in his domain were mountain level and that the creation itself was what jogo scaled above in his stats which I'm forfeiting in all but AP due to Jogo having a Maximum technique which would scale

Only Jogo's maximum technique and Domain expansion should be mountain level (his Maximum Meteor because it's stated for in the verse that Maximum technique have about the same power as a domain expansion.)

Any one of the god tiers who're Supreme grade sorcerer's and 15 finger Sukuna should scale though I believe should indeed keep their AP and Dura tiers of Mountain level since they actually undoubtedly scale far above anything else the lower tiers can do even their domains and Maximum Techniques.
Click to expand...
Max moves aren’t said to have the same power as Domains. They’re just said to both be the pinnacle of sorcery.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
That’s good. We still need to pick which calcs actually make sense to the series though.
Click to expand...
... Why God? Why? Why is no one understanding anything that is being said and yet giving an opinion?

Nobody is saying anything about the calculations. This was already solved more than 2 pages ago. THE WHOLE SCALE HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED

The only thing left to be debated is about Jogo >> Dagon's Domain
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
... Why God? Why? Why is no one understanding anything that is being said and yet giving an opinion?

Nobody is saying anything about the calculations. This was already solved more than 2 pages ago. THE WHOLE SCALE HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED

The only thing left to be debated is whether Jogo >> Dagon's Domain
Click to expand...
I saw talk of tier 7 Maki (among other things) isn’t that due to the scale you’ve proposed?

Also why would Jogo even scale above Dagon’s domain? Nothing implies he’s that strong. At best you’ve got his meteor which was calced to 7B last I checked
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
This is the basis assumption that the wiki uses. If you are going to question this, discuss it elsewhere, not here
Click to expand...
Isn’t it the wiki assumption if the meteor catches fire due to friction and that’s the only logical conclusion?

Jogo could’ve set it on fire if we wanted to and we literally can not know whether he did or didn’t.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
She has only fought two special grade curses. Where is the contradiction?
Click to expand...
Yeah and both times she only harmed them with Playful Cloud. Unless her tier 7 rating is only coming from her using Playful Cloud which you didn’t indicate.


LIFE_OF_KING said:
This is the basis assumption that the wiki uses. If you are going to question this, discuss it elsewhere, not here
Click to expand...
So all flaming rocks are 3km/s now?
 
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