Jujutsu Kaisen Hax & Addition Thread

[Arkenis]

He was stabbed by Toji's weapon, which cancels the cursed energy

Definitely not normal

no?

 

[Arkenis]

Gojo was off guard though.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Read the other comments

 

[Arkenis]

Yea feat really is irrelevant to invulnerability thing. but I guess it should be accepted since whole reinforcing of ce would allow them to block out physical attacks

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spirit and matter are illusory boundaries of a person's being that are both fundamentally information. Ogami's technique utilized cursed energy to summon the information of Toji's body while keeping the information comprising his soul separate. Toji was still able to overcome the process and dominate the possessor's soul with only his "body information" which also allowed him to retain his innate feelings and kill himself vs Megumi. Cursed energy can interact with and manipulate the information comprising the fundamental level of existence. It can also interact with cursed spirits who are the manifested forms of images, emotions, and information stemming from collective human awareness and perceptions related to various phenomena

What are the chapters? I would like to add the scans

 

[Outcast]

Bump

I would like to give limited invulnerability to sorcerers; As currently accepted, curses are invulnerable to any attack without cursed energy because they are embodied by the same concept (In the invulverability scan itself there is an analogy between curse and cursed energy)

Sorcerers are able to make curse energy flow into their bodies to create a defense "shield" and increase physical strength. Therefore, in the same way as curses, nothing without cursed energy should be able to harm a sorcerer.

However, as everyone knows, only an elite sorcerer can create reinforcement in the whole body simultaneously, so most characters will still have vulverable parts in a fight

Disagree with this.

It kinda makes sense on paper, but dont think its how it works in the manga. I dont think its ever been stated that non sorcerers cannot interact with curse energy, just not curses.
Its even been stated that they can touch said curses, just not hurt them. The problem with giving sorcerers said ability is that it assumes reinforcing your body with CE & having CE flowing throughout your body makes you similar to a curse.

This analogy is false because :
a) Curses dont need RCT to heal. They dont have much biology and are pure CE, meaning CE can be used to regenerate. All humans, regardless of who they are, require RCT (positive energy) to heal asthey arent made of CE.


b) Sukuna stated that if he had been a curse when he got he by Mahoragas Sword of Extermination (Flows with positive energy) hed be a goner. However, he was in Yujis body which was not made of CE, letting him survive. Sukuna likely has CE flowing througout his body like elite shamans. He should also have a huge amount of CE, as it has been compared to Gojos somewhat, and was so strong and potent that many people in Shibuya realized he had awakened, and those near him (like Jogo,Nanako and Mimiko) instantly were afraid of him and kneeled down without a single thought. He should also be reinforcing his body with said CE.


Despite this he didnt get one shotted proving that having CE around and flowing inside your body does not grant you the negatives or positives of being a curse. Theres not much correlation .Theres no reason to assume this ability would make someone immune to non shaman attacks, because that is an ability of curses.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I dont think its ever been stated that non sorcerers cannot interact with curse energy, just not curses.

Both are the same concept. They have the same properties so far. In the current chapters it is even mentioned that cursed energy is invisible to humans, just like curses

"Cursed Spirits are a culmination of Cursed Energy leaked from humans" - Chapter 20
"Curses are created when Cursed Energy leaks from humans" - Chapter 77

I don't see how it can be more direct than that

Curses dont need RCT to heal. They dont have much biology and are pure CE, meaning CE can be used to regenerate. All humans, regardless of who they are, require RCT (positive energy) to heal asthey arent made of CE.

I don't see the relevance here. Humans have biology and various unique things. The cursed energy inside a person's body has the same properties as a curse, not the person themselves. So much so that Gege himself makes an analogy between curses and humans/sorcerers with weak cursed energy, shown to be similar despite everything

He should also be reinforcing his body with said CE.

Yes, Sukuna had his body reinforced. But he's no longer like a curse which is the personification of the concept of negativity, he now has a biological body and doesn't only have negative feelings (And therefore isn't deleted out of existence). Sukuna at that moment was using Itadori's body, there was no reason for positive energy to eliminate him; Making analogy between humans and curses is not the point, the point is about the properties of cursed energy

It is explicit in the series that cursed energy = curses. The difference is that humans cannot be eliminated by positive energy because they are not 100% dependent on negative energy

 

[Outcast]

Both are the same concept. They have the same properties so far. In the current chapters it is even mentioned that cursed energy is invisible to humans, just like curses

They are same in the sense that curses are made of CE. Theyre different in that Cursed energy is merely energy, whereas Cursed spirits are a culmination of said energy, with techniques consciousness and other stuff. Even if you were able to prove that theyre the same thing, you would still have to prove having CE defend you and flowing throughout your body would give you curse like properties.

"Cursed Spirits are a culmination of Cursed Energy leaked from humans" - Chapter 20
"Curses are created when Cursed Energy leaks from humans" - Chapter 77

I don't see how it can be more direct than that

CE culminated forms spirits. Theyre not the same thing. Tailed beasts in naruto are made of chakra, yet you cannot say Chakra = Tailed Beasts because they are different in a sense.

I don't see the relevance here. Humans have biology and various unique things. The cursed energy inside a person's body has the same properties as a curse, not the person themselves.

Sure ig?

So much so that Gege himself makes an analogy between curses and humans/sorcerers with weak cursed energy, shown to be similar despite everything

What analogy?

Yes, Sukuna had his body reinforced. But he's no longer like a curse which is the personification of the concept of negativity, he now has a biological body and doesn't only have negative feelings (And therefore isn't deleted out of existence). Sukuna at that moment was using Itadori's body, there was no reason for positive energy to eliminate him; Making analogy between humans and curses is not the point, the point is about the properties of cursed energy

Thats my point. Sukuna has a ton of CE inside him and around him, yet the Sword of Extermination cannot do anything to him. Proving that hes very different from a curse. Proving that he does not have invulnerability (in Yujis body atleast) , as he is vastly different from a curse, and invulnerability being a curse property.

It is explicit in the series that cursed energy = curses. The difference is that humans cannot be eliminated by positive energy because they are not 100% dependent on negative energy

How would Cursed energy = curses, theyre made of the same thing thats it. Again the tailed beast analogy can be used here.
Even if they were, that would not give people with cursed energy curse like properties. As they are vastly different from curses.
They dont have the advantages that a curse body has (Dont need RCT to heal, just CE), and dont have the disadvantages either (Due to not being made of CE, Positive energy heals them instead of destroying them). It makes no sense for you to apply the properties of one to another, be that an advantage or disadvantage.

Weaker curses can phase through walls, when no sorcerer can.
Curses can respawn even if killed with CE, when humans cannot.
Humans having CE does not give them curse like properties. Goes that way for curses as well.

Curses cannot be damaged by humans due to not having a physical body, and being entire made of CE. Shamans have a physical body which can be damaged by non CE attacks. Having a layer of CE around you, or having CE flow inside you does not negate this.

The CE will not magically block and negate non CE damage. You could argue the CE inside shamans is invulnerable to normal people. Im fine with that.

Maki can hurt shamans without cursed tools, but cannot do the same to curses. Same for Toji.

 

[Duedate8898]

OK!

So for starters this thread will be for the addition of powers and abilities and also redoing certain abilities.

I'll label what and who gets what.


Agrees: @Theendzero13 , @Popted2 , @Outcast

Disagrees: @ShadowWhoWalks (Empathic Manip Resist), @Nullflowerblush (Empathic Manip resist)

• Energy Manipulation and Curse Manipulation : All sorcerers and curses should have this. (Sorcerers are able to curse each other and use curse energy) Everyone except Toji and Maki
• Power Nullification : People who can do domain amplification should have this. Jogo, Hanami, Gojo. (This is the main one that is a change since on Jogo and Hanami's page its labeled as attack reflection. It's powernull, Gojo compares it to simple domain and also says it neutralizes techniques, that's why his infinity gets nulled and they can hit him, its also why he turns it off)

Resistance to Empathic Manipulation : Stated by Gojo here that Sorcerers are trained to control their emotions so they should have basic resistance.

(I honestly just noticed this when making this so yea if ya don't agree with this its cool)


Accelerated Development: (Stated stated to improve when there are consequences to suffer. Yuji Learned better curse energy manipulation through fighting on the fly against Hanami and Todo. While fighting Choso, he learns to better control his emotions and control his curse energy better. Characters like Yuta, and Higuruma show this as well. Gojo also states several people have the potential to surpass him. (Should apply to most sorcerers)

Conceptual Manipulation : Gojo has conceptual manipulation types 2 and 3. If you want more Information to see how valid this is plz @ @Dr._whiteee

Perception Manipulation:

Incorporeal replaced with Invulnerability: Ask @Theendzero13 for the validity of this. Likely will end with selective intangibility

Stats Reduction: Nanami's Ratio Technique.

Conceptual Manipulation: Types 2 and 3 for Sorcerers and Curses. This is due to the soul and body being illusory boundaries of a person's being that are both fundamentally information.

Fake Geto discusses that the soul does not predate the body as Mohito claimed and they are in fact the same. Which is evidenced by technique and the small part of Geto's info that exists in his body. Todou also echoes this sentiment when teaching Yuji about the world.

Ogami's technique was said to summon the information of Toji's body while keeping the information comprising his soul separate. Toji was still able to overcome the process and dominate the possessor's soul with only his "body information" which also allowed him to kill himself vs Megumi.

This would logically extend to curses who are manifestations of abstract emotions and "images" of phenomena.
See for more. @Dr._whiteee

Agree with energy and curse manipulation
Power nullification looks good as well
No to Empathetic Manipulation Resistance, doesn't really stop them from getting their emotions manipulated through powers just means they're in tune with their emotions.
Accelerated Development should be awarded character by character instead of to all of them, better to just give it those that have shown it like Megumi and Itadori.
Concept Manipulation is good to go for Gojo, not for everyone else, however.
Scans are needed for invulnerability even if I support it.
Stat Reduction makes sense for Nanami, since that's how Ratio works
Concept Manipulation for everyone I think is a no. Even though a few characters have been shown to manipulate souls and body information and stuff like that, I don't think it should be extended to all sorcerers and curses. Just the ones who have shown it.

 

[Arkenis]

Why is invulnerability still being argued? We literally have direct confirmation that physical attacks can not harm or kill a curse and that you can only exercise them with curse energy. This hasn't been going on for a long time but its pointless to continue.

This is clear invulnerability and actually made me realize another verse has this same thing for its monsters as well.
Also this shows that curses aren't always intangible if that's still a argument.

 

[Theendzero13]

Also this shows that curses aren't always intangible if that's still a argument.

It is not an argument outcast posted undeniable proof that they are not intangible on the general discussion

 

[Theendzero13]

Scans are needed for invulnerability even if I support it.

Do you agree with invulnerability only for curses, or you think some sorcerers should get it as well?

 

[Arkenis]

It is not an argument outcast posted undeniable proof that they are not intangible on the general discussion

Oh yes. I forgot

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

hey are same in the sense that curses are made of CE. Theyre different in that Cursed energy is merely energy, whereas Cursed spirits are a culmination of said energy, with techniques consciousness and other stuff.

An accumulation of fire is still fire.

That didn't even make sense. The cursed energy of the human body is the same as the curse, if a single body has cursed energy to form another type of energy/form in the end any sorcerers would have it without difficulty

That point of yours is unsupported. A different level of existence has never been established between cursed energy and curses

CE culminated forms spirits. Theyre not the same thing

Cursed energy is negative energy

Spirits come from negative energy in people's thoughts

When there are too many negative thoughts it forms a curse

You are going against obvious things

What analogy?

Sukuna has a ton of CE inside him and around him, yet the Sword of Extermination cannot do anything to him

This is because his body is no longer made up of negative energy. The body of a curse is just pure negativity, while the human body is biological and variable; if Itadori's body was 100% dependent on negativity obviously something with positive energy would kill him

Weaker curses can phase through walls, when no sorcerer can.

You are confusing things. Obviously a sorcerer would not go through a wall, because his body is not 100% cursed energy, the human body has positive and negative energy, biology and several other things. Also, Gege said that the cursed energy of low-grade sorcerers can pass through walls, just like the curses

Humans having CE does not give them curse like properties.

I am not giving curse properties to sorcerers. I am establishing the general properties of curse energy.

hamans have a physical body which can be damaged by non CE attacks.

Yes, that is why it is "limited". Unlike curses, a sorcerer's body is not constantly cursed energy

limited Invulnerability (Curses are invincible to anything except other curses. Cursed Spirits are a culmination of Cursed Energy and are created when Cursed Energy leaks from humans. Therefore, the same law must be applied to defenses with cursed energy created by sorcerers. Note that only elite sorcerers are able to consistently flow the cursed energy throughout the body, which makes average sorcerers vulnerable in certain parts of the body without focus of cursed energy)

LIFE OF KING/JJK

vsbattles.fandom.com

You could argue the CE inside shamans is invulnerable to normal people

But my man

IS LITERALLY WHAT I AM DOING

Maki can hurt shamans without cursed tools, but cannot do the same to curses. Same for Toji.

Every time Maki and Toji have physically hurt a sorcerer it has been through strategy and because the sorcerer was not concentrating the cursed energy on defense

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Concept Manipulation for everyone I think is a no. Even though a few characters have been shown to manipulate souls and body information and stuff like that, I don't think it should be extended to all sorcerers and curses. Just the ones who have shown it.

Better elaborate. There was much discussion about why the characters have this. Concept Manipulation will also be useless for most characters

Anyway, could you evaluate some things about the properties of the cursed energy in shamans?

 

[Duedate8898]

Why is invulnerability still being argued? We literally have direct confirmation that physical attacks can not harm or kill a curse and that you can only exercise them with curse energy. This hasn't been going on for a long time but its pointless to continue.

This is clear invulnerability and actually made me realize another verse has this same thing for its monsters as well.
Also this shows that curses aren't always intangible if that's still a argument.

There we go, Invulnerability is good to go for curses

Better elaborate. There was much discussion about why the characters have this. Concept Manipulation will also be useless for most characters

Anyway, could you evaluate some things about the properties of the cursed energy in shamans?

Well firstly, from how the series talks about it, characters would actually possess information manipulation since they're not manipulating ideas, but merely the information that makes up people and curses. Secondly, even though cursed energy can be used for this purpose, not every character that possess cursed energy does so. In fact, I would say not every character understands how to do so. So instead of giving it to everyone, we should just give it to those that show the information manipulation, like the old lady and Yaga. That's why its a no for every character and also why I wouldn't call it Conceptual Manipulation.

And to cover all the stuff you listed out in your link, remove Invuneralibility negation (that's less an ability and more just cursed energy being the exception), change limited invulnerability to just invulnerability because the power itself isn't limited like how there's only a specific thing they're immune, it's just a specific thing they're not immune to. Not every sorcerer is proficient in Hand to Hand combat, Mai, Nobara, and the broom girl come to mind. Accelerated Development should just be given to those that showed the feats directly instead of to everyone. And Prediction/ Information Analysis is a no go for everyone, information analysis isn't a direct ability that they all possess but more the normal thing of making a prediction based off of what you see. And I say no to prediction mainly because this is less an ability in my mind and more just showing an understanding of the system present within the verse. I'm unsure on that one, because I feel like it might count but it doesn't feel solid enough for me.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

remove Invuneralibility negation (that's less an ability and more just cursed energy being the exception), change limited invulnerability to just invulnerability because the power itself isn't limited like how there's only a specific thing they're immune, it's just a specific thing they're not immune to.

Fair

Not every sorcerer is proficient in Hand to Hand combat, Mai, Nobara, and the broom girl come to mind.

Mai has a restriction from the universe not to have good characteristics with cursed energy, that's why she is weak. She even apparently changed her focus from hand-to-hand combat to marksmanship because of her low strength

Nobara is physically strong and good in combat. She is even praised by her opponents.

Hand to hand combat was something that proved to be an essential part of being a sorcerer. Even Megumi and Yuta (In Vol 0), who focus on summoning, have physical training.

Accelerated Development should just be given to those that showed the feats directly instead of to everyone.

Fair

Prediction/ Information Analysis is a no go for everyone

Usually sorcerers are able to sense and read the opponent's cursed energy. This was one of main fundamental explanations about cursed energy

And I say no to prediction mainly because this is less an ability in my mind and more just showing an understanding of the system present within the verse

It is a means to be able to predict the trajectory of an attack more easily than a human. They can analyze the cursed energy and then know where the greatest focus of energy to facilitate a battle

 

[Epsilon_R]

The only issue I have with Invulnerability is the word "Exorcise"

Why would it mean "harm" more than "kill" for example?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Itadori was defeating the curse in physical terms and in terms of agility, but soon afterwards Megumi says it's all irrelevant without cursed energy and then it is shown that the curse was intact

Also, "kill" a curse is incorrect term in the universe. The correct term is "exorcise" (Although in practice it is the same)

 

[Theendzero13]

There we go, Invulnerability is good to go for curses

Well firstly, from how the series talks about it, characters would actually possess information manipulation since they're not manipulating ideas, but merely the information that makes up people and curses. Secondly, even though cursed energy can be used for this purpose, not every character that possess cursed energy does so. In fact, I would say not every character understands how to do so. So instead of giving it to everyone, we should just give it to those that show the information manipulation, like the old lady and Yaga. That's why its a no for every character and also why I wouldn't call it Conceptual Manipulation.

And to cover all the stuff you listed out in your link, remove Invuneralibility negation (that's less an ability and more just cursed energy being the exception), change limited invulnerability to just invulnerability because the power itself isn't limited like how there's only a specific thing they're immune, it's just a specific thing they're not immune to. Not every sorcerer is proficient in Hand to Hand combat, Mai, Nobara, and the broom girl come to mind. Accelerated Development should just be given to those that showed the feats directly instead of to everyone. And Prediction/ Information Analysis is a no go for everyone, information analysis isn't a direct ability that they all possess but more the normal thing of making a prediction based off of what you see. And I say no to prediction mainly because this is less an ability in my mind and more just showing an understanding of the system present within the verse. I'm unsure on that one, because I feel like it might count but it doesn't feel solid enough for me.

So sorcerers are getting full invulnerability as well , like life of king suggested?

 

[Duedate8898]

So sorcerers are getting full invulnerability as well , like life of king suggested?

No, that's why I specified the curses.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

There we go, Invulnerability is good to go for curses

Well firstly, from how the series talks about it, characters would actually possess information manipulation since they're not manipulating ideas, but merely the information that makes up people and curses. Secondly, even though cursed energy can be used for this purpose, not every character that possess cursed energy does so. In fact, I would say not every character understands how to do so. So instead of giving it to everyone, we should just give it to those that show the information manipulation, like the old lady and Yaga. That's why its a no for every character and also why I wouldn't call it Conceptual Manipulation.

And to cover all the stuff you listed out in your link, remove Invuneralibility negation (that's less an ability and more just cursed energy being the exception), change limited invulnerability to just invulnerability because the power itself isn't limited like how there's only a specific thing they're immune, it's just a specific thing they're not immune to. Not every sorcerer is proficient in Hand to Hand combat, Mai, Nobara, and the broom girl come to mind. Accelerated Development should just be given to those that showed the feats directly instead of to everyone. And Prediction/ Information Analysis is a no go for everyone, information analysis isn't a direct ability that they all possess but more the normal thing of making a prediction based off of what you see. And I say no to prediction mainly because this is less an ability in my mind and more just showing an understanding of the system present within the verse. I'm unsure on that one, because I feel like it might count but it doesn't feel solid enough for me.

We will most likely be getting type 3 concept manipulation for all cursed energy.

 

[Theendzero13]

No, that's why I specified the curses.

So are sorcerers getting lmited invulnerability
( going by life of king arguments) or no invulnerability at all

 

[Duedate8898]

None.

 

[Theendzero13]

None.

Ok, but can you please elaborate?

 

[Duedate8898]

They're humans at the end of the day. Nothing else to it. They don't have any feats or statements that directly indicate any form of invulnerability

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I agree with humans not getting invulnerability.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Nothing else to it. They don't have any feats or statements that directly indicate any form of invulnerability

How could it not? The physiology of a curse says they are invulnerability, and the same curses are purely cursed energy

It's a general concept of cursed energy. If you disregard one you automatically disregard the other

 

[Duedate8898]

How could it not? The physiology of a curse says they are invulnerability, and the same curses are purely cursed energy

It's a general concept of cursed energy. If you disregard one you automatically disregard the other

It's not a concept of cursed energy, it's a concept of cursed spirits. That statement of invulnerability was said in relation to cursed spirits. It should not be extrapolated out to cursed energy in general because cursed spirits are not the same as cursed energy. Unless there are feats and statements for sorcerer's having invulnerability then that is a no go. Bring that and I'll have no problem with it, otherwise it's not happening

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Cursed spirits are made of negative energy

Negative energy is the source of the cursed energy's power

And curses have been described as an accumulation of cursed energy

 

[Duedate8898]

None of that is a statement of cursed users being invulnerable to non-cursed based attacks when using cursed energy. Until we get something like that or feats, I'm not approving it.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Concept Manipulation is good to go for Gojo

Based on the scans, do you think Gojo has Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation or Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation?

There's also some parts of these scans that I don't think have been introduced in this thread yet that discusses a bit about the conceptual manipulation, though it might not be needed.

From what I could see, the scans about Gojo bringing "Infinity" (which is something that is "naturally there") "into reality" and the Jump GIGA Interviews seems to have imply that its applicable for Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, as it seems to be implied that it can physically affect Gojo's targets using his manipulation of concepts and wasn't suggested anywhere that such concepts are linked to the cognition and perception like Type 3 Concepts are, though I want to know your thoughts on which of the two types it would most likely be.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Where does the cursed energy come from?

• "The basis of cursed energy is negative emotion"
• "Cursed Energy comes from negative emotions"

Where does the curses come from?

• "The majority are the result of negative energy that flows out of people"
• "Cursed Spirit are a culmination of cursed energy leaked from humans"
• "Cursed are created when cursed energy leaks from humans"

Do they have any similarities in terms of feats?

• Gege says that a low-grade sorcerer has intangible cursed energy, just like as weak curses
• Megumi says: "It doesnt matter how strong you are... A curse can only be exorcised by another curse"; Here he makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy. Sorcerers destroy curses with cursed energy and not with literally another curse
• After Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a normal weapon, which would be consistent with the invulverability of curses

I don't see how sorcerers who can reinforce their body with cursed energy can't have limited invulverability, even if it is obvious that they have a strong similarity with curses

Remembering, this isn't about physiology, it's about the general concept of cursed energy

 

[Arkenis]

how does this help them?

 

[Outcast]

Spoiler

An accumulation of fire is still fire.

That didn't even make sense. The cursed energy of the human body is the same as the curse, if a single body has cursed energy to form another type of energy/form in the end any sorcerers would have it without difficulty

That point of yours is unsupported. A different level of existence has never been established between cursed energy and curses

Spoiler

Except Im pretty sure that isnt a fair analogy. Tailed beasts in naruto are made of chakra, the only difference is that they have a physical body/form. Yet chakra /=/ Tailed beasts.
Curses are a culmination of cursed energy. They have extremely similar properties. However cursed energy cannot speak, and it certainly cannot do cursed techniques.
Dunno why a different level needs to be existed. Cursed spirits being made of CE doesnt mean all the properties are same for both, thats a given.

Cursed energy is negative energy

Spirits come from negative energy in people's thoughts

When there are too many negative thoughts it forms a curse

You are going against obvious things

Ok. I dont think I denied this.

Im not sure what you mean. Its stated in the scans that only low grade spirits can phase through walls, thereby making a difference between shamans with low level shamans and low level cursed spirits. The only part which seems like an analogy is the part that states that neither shamans nor high level curses can phase through walls. Not sure how much of a comparison that is. No shaman can phase through walls. High level curses cannot because of the amount of CE they produce. Shamans not being able to phase through walls is not because they have a huge amount of CE, but because they arent curses and have a physical body.

This is because his body is no longer made up of negative energy. The body of a curse is just pure negativity, while the human body is biological and variable; if Itadori's body was 100% dependent on negativity obviously something with positive energy would kill him

Im not saying Sukunas body is purely negative. Thats not my point at all.
Sukuna - has a lot of ce throughout him, and around him.
Yet he can take a sword made of positve energy with 0 difficulty, whereas a curse would just die.
Meaning even shamans with a ton of ce /=/ curses.

You are confusing things. Obviously a sorcerer would not go through a wall, because his body is not 100% cursed energy, the human body has positive and negative energy, biology and several other things. Also, Gege said that the cursed energy of low-grade sorcerers can pass through walls, just like the curses

Thats kind of my point though.
Invulnerability is a property of CE. Humans have CE, but due to having a physical body they dont have invulnerability.
The CE of shamans passing through walls is a given, because CE is CE.

I am not giving curse properties to sorcerers. I am establishing the general properties of curse energy.

Ok. I dont have a problem if the cursed energy of sorcerers is invulnerable.

Yes, that is why it is "limited". Unlike curses, a sorcerer's body is not constantly cursed energy

The CE of sorcerers being invulnerable is not an issue. My point is that having CE around and flowing inside you (or a certain part of your body) does not make you a curse, or a being made entirely out of CE. Therefore it would not make that part invulnerable. Because that is a property of CE and cursed spirits. Shamans have a physical body.
Having CE flow inside you and having a layer of it around you would not automatically negate all attacks towards you. Thats never been implied or stated.

LIFE OF KING/JJK

vsbattles.fandom.com

But my man

IS LITERALLY WHAT I AM DOING

^^ I dont have a problem with the ce being invulnerable, just problem with the sorcerer. Explained above in the previous point.

Every time Maki and Toji have physically hurt a sorcerer it has been through strategy and because the sorcerer was not concentrating the cursed energy on defense

So if current Maki or Toji punch Yuta while he is concentrating his C on defense, their attacks would just get negged?
Thats never been implied or stated.

 

[mal]

gojo should have universal range because infinity existed everywheren

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

Ok. I dont think I denied this.

You are against that cursed energy equals cursed spirits, I want to know the reason when the verse goes against that. Megumi himself makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy when he explains about invulverability

• "It doesnt matter how strong you are... A curse can only be exorcised by another curse"

Here he makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy. Sorcerers destroy curses with cursed energy and not with literally another curse

Im not sure what you mean. Its stated in the scans that only low grade spirits can phase through walls, thereby making a difference between shamans with low level shamans and low level cursed spirits. The only part which seems like an analogy is the part that states that neither shamans nor high level curses can phase through walls. Not sure how much of a comparison that is. No shaman can phase through walls. High level curses cannot because of the amount of CE they produce. Shamans not being able to phase through walls is not because they have a huge amount of CE, but because they arent curses and have a physical body.

It is a comparison. If Gege was only talking about curses it would make no sense for him to mention "and shamans". Both have the similarity, which is cursed energy; as we know, cursed energy goes through people's bodies when it is in small quantity

I am not saying that a shaman's physical body can walk through walls, but his abilities with cursed energy

Sukuna - has a lot of ce throughout him, and around him.
Yet he can take a sword made of positve energy with 0 difficulty, whereas a curse would just die.
Meaning even shamans with a ton of ce /=/ curses.

This is because he is no longer dependent on negative energy by being in Itadori's body. In a human body positive energy is natural, while in a curse body it is not. The human body is not pure, it varies, it can have both negativity and positivity

Invulnerability is a property of CE. Humans have CE, but due to having a physical body they dont have invulnerability.

But Sorcerers can create a protective aura with cursed energy, even Itadori can do this.
A good exemple is in the fight between Gojo and Toji. After Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a non-cursed weapon, who later managed to slaughter Gojo's body after bypass the Infinite and use a cursed weapon

Ok. I dont have a problem if the cursed energy of sorcerers is invulnerable.

So you agree with limited invulverability?

So if current Maki or Toji punch Yuta while he is concentrating his C on defense, their attacks would just get negged?

Basically, yes. If cursed weapons had the same effect as normal weapons against sorcerers it would be better if Toji didn't use any sorcerer weapons at all, so no one would notice his presence.

Thats never been implied or stated.

Toji couldn't hurt Gojo's body with a human weapon after he reinforced his body with cursed energy

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I propose the following justification:

limited Invulnerability (Curses are invincible to anything except other curses. Cursed Spirits are a culmination of Cursed Energy and are created when Cursed Energy leaks from humans, both coming from negative emotions. Therefore the same law must be applied to defenses with cursed energy created by sorcerers. This being supported by the fact that after Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a non-sorcerer weapon, who later managed to slaughter Gojo's body after bypass the Infinite and use a cursed weapon [Note that only Supreme Grade Sorcerers are able to consistently flow the cursed energy throughout the body, which makes average sorcerers vulnerable in parts of the body without focus of cursed energy])

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

I propose the following justification:

agree.

we should really get a thread on gojo's hax tho

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think everything can be discussed here without needing a new thread