Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Giannysmag]

I watched the anime... they did nothing as impressive as Maho tanking several BF hits from Gojo.

I'm talking about actual calculable feats here not scaling

 

[Giannysmag]

what is the difference between shibuya and shinjuku gojo in ur opinion

Shinjuku Gojo has the basketball domain which is what allowed him to domain clash Sukuna and he should be like... a hairs length stronger in terms of reinforcment, just the tiniest iddy biddy bit stronger. These are only things that effect his matchup with 20F Sukuna mind you, Shibuya Gojo still no diffs the rest of the verse

Edit: Shinjuku Gojo also has Unlimited Hollow Purple, which again only effects his matchup with Sukuna

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

Gojo still no diffs the rest of the verse

Only up to Him

 

[Arkenis]

I'm talking about actual calculable feats here not scaling

Bunch of 8-C and 8-A feats lets not bs.

 

[Giannysmag]

Only up to Him

Bunch of 8-C and 8-A feats lets not bs.

Still better than most Shinjuku feats lmao

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

I better keep that infinity up or else i am finished

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You forgot to post what happened next. Here Gojo got offscreened by Miguel.

 

[Arkenis]

Never scale again

Clear it.

JJK - Gojo Unsealed

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sukuna made that statement after analyzing Mahoraga's abilities. 3 Finger Sukuna wouldn’t have known about Mahoraga’s adaptation and would have tried his ability on it first. For that, he would need to be physically comparable to it; otherwise, he would get overpowered instantly. Sukuna wouldn’t make a statement suggesting he had any chances if he wasn’t comparable to it.

Yes, he would've tried Dismantle and Cleve and not gotten the job done, then gone into the MS Fuga combo

It may be correct to say Sukuna wouldn’t have many chances to use Fuga likely—not that Mahoraga outright would tank Fuga. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have any chance of winning.

I think the idea is that it's not certain whether could or couldn't exorcise Mahoraga. Also pretty much no matter what, it would indicate that Mahoraga is at least marginally superior in a direct fight

Take this out on @Giannysmag

You were responding to something that started with that so yeah

You claimed Sukuna was surprised because Mahoraga was using Cursed Energy. If he already knew Mahoraga could strengthen itself with Cursed Energy reinforcement, he wouldn’t have been surprised.

Perhaps he didn't know then. How would he know what Mahoraga's durability resulted from?

Reinforcements are needed to strengthen oneself so Mahoraga shouldn't be using CE when Sukuna used Dismantle on it first.

It doesn’t change much because Mahoraga didn’t use the Sword of Extermination to send Sukuna flying.

I'm aware, and he used CE there, which is what I'm saying. Although now that I look again, the surprise might've resulted from Mahoraga using CE in the SWORD not himself, as he attacked with his sword arm. In which case Mahoraga using CE reinforcement the whole time for his body is totally fine.

I don’t see your point about how Cleave fitting as a new attack would disqualify it from being Cleave. Maho was adapting to Slashes it has nothing to do with Dismantle or Cleave. It even survived Sukuna's domain cleave. Which should be 120% more powerfull than normal cleave.

No, the whole context is that Sukuna used Malevolent Shine to relentlessly attack Mahoraga with Cleaves, which would be effective against it BECAUSE it hasn't experienced it. Then it's following up by saying that Mahoraga didn't just adapt to Dismantle, but the broader category it belongs to, slashes.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Clear it.

JJK - Gojo Unsealed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Seems a bit assumption heavy

 

[MinatoSparkle]

How does the anime help? Shinjuku's showings alone demonstrate better scaling.

I meant Base Mahoraga vs Kenjaku

 

[Arkenis]

I meant Base Mahoraga vs Kenjaku

Yeah base Mahoraga scales to Gojo.

 

[Arkenis]

Seems a bit assumption heavy

Whats heavy?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah base Mahoraga scales to Gojo.

????? 3F rival

Whats heavy?

Assuming that Gojo travelled physically and that the timeframe is 1 second

 

[Arkenis]

????? 3F rival

That is Megumi's Mahoraga, not Sukuna's.

Assuming that Gojo travelled physically and that the timeframe is 1 second

Did you read the calc?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I know this has nothing to do with the conversation but Ryu taking 16F Sukuna's dismantle with surface level damage is unironically a better physical feat than anything Kashimo has

Kashimo out here catching strays for no damn reason

How does the anime help? Shinjuku's showings alone demonstrate better scaling.

More on screen feats of "physical" strength and showings for his adaptation. Also crazy ass regen

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That is Megumi's Mahoraga, not Sukuna's.

I'm aware, that's who I mean by Base Mahoraga. Meguna's Mahoraga>Kenjaku>Base Mahoraga

Did you read the calc?

Yes, that's how I commented on those things. The counter to the possibility of teleportation is just burden shifting and I don't see how Gojo being faster than everyone in any way relates to him coming out of the trench in 1 second

 

[M3X_2.0]

Kashimo out here catching strays for no damn reason

The day Gin realized Kashimo had no scaling besides Hakari who also doesn’t have scaling was the funniest day in this thread.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm aware, that's who I mean by Base Mahoraga. Meguna's Mahoraga>Kenjaku>Base Mahoraga

Okay so then why did you bring up 3f rival?

Yes, that's how I commented on those things. The counter to the possibility of teleportation is just burden shifting and I don't see how Gojo being faster than everyone in any way relates to him coming out of the trench in 1 second

I'm not shifting anything, I am arguing against it as even being a possibility since his teleportation has never shown high range like that and Gojo's senses have also never been shown to be so great either. And Gojo's superior thus he'd be capable of doing higher speed feats.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

The day Gin realized Kashimo had no scaling besides Hakari who also doesn’t have scaling was the funniest day in this thread.

Could you tell me which page it was where Gin had this realization? I really wanna read it lol.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The day Gin realized Kashimo had no scaling besides Hakari who also doesn’t have scaling was the funniest day in this thread.

Never scale again

Okay so then why did you bring up 3f rival?

Cause Base Mahoraga is one?

I'm not shifting anything, I am arguing against it as even being a possibility since his teleportation has never shown high range like that and Gojo's senses have also never been shown to be so great either.

This is just an argument from ignorance. Him not doing doesn't rule out the possibility of it, especially since the mechanics of his teleportation have been left quite vague. He did also send Inumaki and Panda a pretty far distance in Vol 0, even if not as much as the distance in this situation.

And Gojo's superior thus he'd be capable of doing higher speed feats.

Ok? Again not seeing the connection to crossing 8 km in 1 second.

 

[Arkenis]

Cause Base Mahoraga is one?

Not as Sukuna's Shadow.

This is just an argument from ignorance. Him not doing doesn't rule out the possibility of it, especially since the mechanics of his teleportation have been left quite vague. He did also send Inumaki and Panda a pretty far distance in Vol 0, even if not as much as the distance in this situation.

Its an absurd difference in distance though. Literally no reason to believe he teleported hundreds of km otherwise. There's no ignorance here, there's just nothing proving he teleported and then there's nothing supporting he could teleported so far. And in vol 0 is was tens of km.

Ok? Again not seeing the connection to crossing 8 km in 1 second.

You don't have to.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Not as Sukuna's Shadow.

Again, I'm just talking about Shibuya Mahoraga

Its an absurd difference in distance though. Literally no reason to believe he teleported hundreds of km otherwise. There's no ignorance here, there's just nothing proving he teleported and then there's nothing supporting he could teleported so far. And in vol 0 is was tens of km.

No reason to believe he did or didn't, it's just inconclusive. At best this could be used for possibly

You don't have to.

 

[Arkenis]

Again, I'm just talking about Shibuya Mahoraga

Okay maybe I am confused. So you agree Sukuna's Maho and Megumi's Maho don't scale?

No reason to believe he did or didn't, it's just inconclusive. At best this could be used for possibly

No we can argue for either or. This has no reason to be inconclusive when so little supports the teleportation assumption.

No reason to prove to you when you have no say over it.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Unironically, I see the logic for Megumi's Maho being below Ryu but at the same time Maho scaling that low feels wrong so Imma just ignore it

Okay maybe I am confused. So you agree Sukuna's Maho and Megumi's Maho don't scale?

I'm aware, that's who I mean by Base Mahoraga. Meguna's Mahoraga>Kenjaku>Base Mahoraga

He's saying Megumi's Maho is weaker

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Okay maybe I am confused. So you agree Sukuna's Maho and Megumi's Maho don't scale?

I agree Sukuna's Mahoraga is stronger

No we can argue for either or. This has no reason to be inconclusive when so little supports the teleportation assumption.

So little supports any assumption since there's no info given about what Gojo did. At best you could say Kenjaku didn't think Gojo could break out so he prepared teleportation countermeasures, but Gojo just doing it anyways cause he's Satoru Gojo is a very in character thing so I wouldn't even call that too strong.

No reason to prove to you when you have no say over it.

The quality of the argument remains the same regardless of who you're presenting it too but OK

Unironically, I see the logic for Megumi's Maho being below Ryu but at the same time Maho scaling that low feels wrong so Imma just ignore it

It's unfortunately an adaptation merchant. Also idk that it's that weird since Yuta thinks he can take on a stronger Mahoraga.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

It's unfortunately an adaptation merchant. Also idk that it's that weird since Yuta thinks he can take on a stronger Mahoraga.

Main reason is cause it just feels weird cause Maho is hyped up to be an ultimate move that could even take out limitless six eyes users but then Megumi's Maho unironically loses to like anyone worthwhile past the Culling Games. Obviously based on feats it makes sense but it just feels wrong lol

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Main reason is cause it just feels weird cause Maho is hyped up to be an ultimate move that could even take out limitless six eyes users but then Megumi's Maho unironically loses to like anyone worthwhile past the Culling Games. Obviously based on feats it makes sense but it just feels wrong lol

More ammo for the potential man Megumi agenda. Forever fraudulent I fear

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Well who can actually kill Megumi's Mahoraga? Off the dome, Yuta with either a full power energy blast or Jacob's Ladder and Kenjaku with Uzumaki

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Well who can actually kill Megumi's Mahoraga? Off the dome, Yuta with either a full power energy blast or Jacob's Ladder and Kenjaku with Uzumaki

Probably Ryu assuming he goes for a max output shot immediately and doesn't **** around. Yorozu assuming the same thing but with true sphere. Maybe Yuji assuming DE soul dismantles work considering Sukuna also thought MS would work on Maho before realizing he had adapted to slashes already but thats kind of a big maybe. Yuki just in general

 

[Arkenis]

Main reason is cause it just feels weird cause Maho is hyped up to be an ultimate move that could even take out limitless six eyes users but then Megumi's Maho unironically loses to like anyone worthwhile past the Culling Games. Obviously based on feats it makes sense but it just feels wrong lol

Still that’s very few, Yuta and Kenjaku are the main ones maybe. And going off feats isn’t a good measure for the scaling.

 

[Arkenis]

So little supports any assumption since there's no info given about what Gojo did. At best you could say Kenjaku didn't think Gojo could break out so he prepared teleportation countermeasures, but Gojo just doing it anyways cause he's Satoru Gojo is a very in character thing so I wouldn't even call that too strong.

Occam's razor. My assumption, something we assert for all off screen speed feats is that the character moved within certain timeframes, the teleportation requires us to assert Gojo's teleportation can perform a feat it has never done and has never been implied to do, and furthermore we have to assume Gojo could sense Kenjaku from so far.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Main reason is cause it just feels weird cause Maho is hyped up to be an ultimate move that could even take out limitless six eyes users but then Megumi's Maho unironically loses to like anyone worthwhile past the Culling Games. Obviously based on feats it makes sense but it just feels wrong lol

I mean Megumi did immediately follow up that hype by saying he can't become as strong as Gojo, so that kinda just implies previous Six Eyes users were mid tbh

Well who can actually kill Megumi's Mahoraga? Off the dome, Yuta with either a full power energy blast or Jacob's Ladder and Kenjaku with Uzumaki

Geto: Maximum Uzumaki
Yuji: DE or Black Flash Rush or maybe Supernova
Kashimo: weird laser lightning beam thing
Uraume: Maximum Output Frost Calm
Yuki: DE or just Star Rage punching its head off
Toji/Maki: SSK slice in half or into pieces
Yorozu: Perfect Sphere
Miguel: Black Rope maybe (considering his Gojo level physicals, punching through it is plausible as well)
Ryu: Granite Blast
Uro: possibly DE depending on what the sure hit is
Cursya: Time Cell Moon Palace possibly

Occam's razor. My assumption, something we assert for all off screen speed feats is that the character moved within certain timeframes, the teleportation requires us to assert Gojo's teleportation can perform a feat it has never done and has never been implied to do, and furthermore we have to assume Gojo could sense Kenjaku from so far.

It has been implied to be able to go long distances (in fact longer than the 8km he needed to go to get out of the trench), and how do you think Gojo knew where to find Kenjaku?

 

[Arkenis]

Geto: Maximum Uzumaki
Yuji: DE or Black Flash Rush or maybe Supernova
Kashimo: weird laser lightning beam thing
Uraume: Maximum Output Frost Calm
Yuki: DE or just Star Rage punching its head off
Toji/Maki: SSK slice in half or into pieces
Yorozu: Perfect Sphere
Miguel: Black Rope maybe (considering his Gojo level physicals, punching through it is plausible as well)
Ryu: Granite Blast
Uro: possibly DE depending on what the sure hit is
Cursya: Time Cell Moon Palace possibly

Maximum Uzumaki has no feats comparable to 15f Sukuna, its weaker than limit removed Rika.
Yuji's supernova is weaker than Choso's. And his bf punches are weak too.
Kashimo's maybe though it literally has no feats besides a featless Hakari.
Max output frost calm couldn't even kill Maki.
Miguel doesn't- yeah you need to reread.
Ryu's GB, the same thing that can't even one shot Yuta.

It has been implied to be able to go long distances (in fact longer than the 8km he needed to go to get out of the trench), and how do you think Gojo knew where to find Kenjaku?

You're proving my point, this implication is vague and requires us to assume "long distances" is 400+km, when he's never done so. Doesn't matter how I think Gojo knew where to find Kenjaku. The guy could have a special sense just for Geto's body lmao, its still an assumption for us.

 

[Duedate8898]

I do think we should realize that Megumi's Mahoraga is just base Mahoraga. The ritual itself should summon the Shikigami in their base state, hence why no Ten Shadow user beforehand could tame it.

Sukuna's Mahoraga just scales high because Sukuna establishes that tamed Shikigami can be empowered based on the user's output.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, he would've tried Dismantle and Cleve and not gotten the job done, then gone into the MS Fuga combo

I think the idea is that it's not certain whether could or couldn't exorcise Mahoraga. Also pretty much no matter what, it would indicate that Mahoraga is at least marginally superior in a direct fight

I said 3F Sukuna vs. Maho is not the argument I wanted to make. Shibuya Mahoraga smokes anyone other than Gojo, Sukuna, and possibly Shinjuku Yuta. No one has a counter to it or physical capabilities comparable to 15F Sukuna

Perhaps he didn't know then. How would he know what Mahoraga's durability resulted from?

He has information analysis skills and can sense opponents CE pretty well and he also already showcased enough feats in Shinjuku throughout that he can tell how much stronger CE Reinforcements is. So your this point is mute.

I'm aware, and he used CE there, which is what I'm saying. Although now that I look again, the surprise might've resulted from Mahoraga using CE in the SWORD not himself, as he attacked with his sword arm. In which case Mahoraga using CE reinforcement the whole time for his body is totally fine.

The argument that Sukuna would let his guard down just because it switched from positive to negative energy doesn’t work. Sukuna has already demonstrated far better reactions than Mahoraga in that fight. Additionally, as I mentioned above, Sukuna is a skilled fighter with enough experience to assess his opponent's strengths and weaknesses, especially in his area of expertise.

No, the whole context is that Sukuna used Malevolent Shine to relentlessly attack Mahoraga with Cleaves, which would be effective against it BECAUSE it hasn't experienced it. Then it's following up by saying that Mahoraga didn't just adapt to Dismantle, but the broader category it belongs to, slashes.

It has nothing to do with MS cleave or normal cleave because Sukuna knew Maho was adapting to the Slashes itself.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Probably Ryu assuming he goes for a max output shot immediately and doesn't **** around. Yorozu assuming the same thing but with true sphere. Maybe Yuji assuming DE soul dismantles work considering Sukuna also thought MS would work on Maho before realizing he had adapted to slashes already but thats kind of a big maybe. Yuki just in general

I doubt Ryu getting enough time to charge up. Even if he does I don't think he can one shot Mahoraga full body with just raw power of his CE blasts.

 

[Giannysmag]

Could you tell me which page it was where Gin had this realization? I really wanna read it lol.

You know I've been thinking and I've come to the realisation that MBA Kashimo is ass and doesn't deserve to be anywere near the top 5 or even top 7.

He has no scaling aside from beating up half dead Sukuna, he has no domain, no RCT, his technique is ass (all of his shit got either dodged or tanked by said half dead Sukuna) and to put the cherry on top of this sorry excuse for a top tier his own technique kills him. Like he'd arguably do worse against Hakari than he did in his base form because he would be fighting an immortal while on a time limit.

Edo period must have been just utter dogshit if this bum was the Gojo or Sukuna of his era.

 

[Giannysmag]

Main reason is cause it just feels weird cause Maho is hyped up to be an ultimate move that could even take out limitless six eyes users but then Megumi's Maho unironically loses to like anyone worthwhile past the Culling Games. Obviously based on feats it makes sense but it just feels wrong lol

Tbf Ryu is just kind of a tank, even during Shinjuku Sukuna thinks that the MC duo hasn't surpassed him in toughness. Maho was still taking physical attacks from Sukuna no problem while a nerfed Sukuna's punches where making Maki spit blood

 

[Giannysmag]

Don't ask Kenjaku who was his vessel during 1933-1945