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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

M3X_2.0 said:
Also, that MHS thread is so funny. Some people were straight up lying saying Hakari is indeed hundreds times faster than characters like Yuta or Yuji, even though he has never shown any difference in speed compared to ******* Uraume šŸ˜­.
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This is the biggest generalized statement with no substance. Some of your worse takes
 
Arkenis said:
Btw I think for the Hakari electricity feat as to at least give the feat some significance and acknowledgment calc wise this calc can be used since the lightning speed one is discard
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This has gone over multiple threads. The bolt of lightning is legitimate lightning and lightning speed.

Downplaying it to "electricity speeds" and conveniently hiding results doesn't make it better.

This is the same situation with black flash, we don't just make it a 2.5 multiplier because you don't like how the ^2.5 make the scaling.

End of the day discard the feat if you want to ignore elements of the story.
 
PowerToScale said:
This is the biggest generalized statement with no substance. Some of your worse takes
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Youā€™re butthurt for absolutely nothing. I never said your name, nor I am ā€œarguingā€ here to have to add ā€œsubstanceā€ to my statement.

Keep your ghost status.
 
PowerToScale said:
End of the day discard the feat if you want to ignore elements of the story.
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Arkenis said:
This assumes that Lightning Strike is meant to be associated and interpreted as MHS in speed, Gege generally tells us what the speed of something is when it matters, the lightning strikes not important to the story or to any character for conveying the superiority in speed compared to others.

You can see characters like Naobito, Gojo, Naoya, Jogo, and I believe Toji, all getting actual statements and emphasis on their speed in the story, when we have that in a story and it's consistently pushed in our face that their level of speed is impressive we follow that.

Calcs can be useful when there is not enough in the story telling us where character should scale, but otherwise going off a couple calcs to portray the speed of some of the most important characters in the series just isn't reasonable.

This is kinda the same issue I had with Domains scaling to ap, its the supreme technique in verse, nothing else is better than them, no one can do it multiple times in a day yet people were thinking it makes sense to scale Dagon to island level off a calc.
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M3X_2.0 said:
Youā€™re butthurt for absolutely nothing. I never said your name, nor I am ā€œarguingā€ here to have to add ā€œsubstanceā€ to my statement.

Keep your ghost status.
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My guy, why are you do mad? I just simply pointed out that your statement lacks context specifications to and you're making a generslized claim no real meaning.
 
Iā€™m far from mad. Itā€™s so funny that youā€™re the only one who ever interprets the stuff I say as ā€œlol youā€™re madā€. No, Iā€™m not. Iā€™m happily playing RE4 Remake as I write this comment.

ā€œerm your statement lacks huuh checks dictionary context specificationsā€
 
I swear every time you reply something from me you make sure to state that Iā€™m mad despite I probably being the happiest Iā€™ve been in my day.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Iā€™m far from mad. Itā€™s so funny that youā€™re the only one who ever interprets the stuff I say as ā€œlol youā€™re madā€. No, Iā€™m not. Iā€™m happily playing RE4 Remake as I write this comment.

ā€œerm your statement lacks huuh checks dictionary context specificationsā€
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M3X_2.0 said:
I swear every time you reply something from me you make sure to state that Iā€™m mad despite I probably being the happiest Iā€™ve been in my day.
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Yes, I assume you're mad because you went straight into insults, and on this little rant. Either way, I can see that my comment could have hurt you at the end and that's my bad. However, your statement still stands as a generalized claim about a situation that lacks specification on elements relating to it.

You're playing RE4 so I'll leave you to it.
 
Arkenis said:
This assumes that Lightning Strike is meant to be associated and interpreted as MHS in speed, Gege generally tells us what the speed of something is when it matters, the lightning strikes not important to the story or to any character for conveying the superiority in speed compared to others.

You can see characters like Naobito, Gojo, Naoya, Jogo, and I believe Toji, all getting actual statements and emphasis on their speed in the story, when we have that in a story and it's consistently pushed in our face that their level of speed is impressive we follow that.

Calcs can be useful when there is not enough in the story telling us where character should scale, but otherwise going off a couple calcs to portray the speed of some of the most important characters in the series just isn't reasonable.

This is kinda the same issue I had with Domains scaling to ap, its the supreme technique in verse, nothing else is better than them, no one can do it multiple times in a day yet people were thinking it makes sense to scale Dagon to island level off a calc.
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The idea that lightning speeds in jjk are Massively Hypersonic or being associated doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly stated in the story. Lightning itself has a general speed in the MHS ranges and the lightning in the story showcases properties of being that as well. Given that the ability is also made through the exact formation that natural lightning and made through the same elements of lightning, it doesn't always require direct confirmation in the narrative.

While characters like Naobito, Gojo, Naoya, Jogo, and Toji receive explicit emphasis on their speed, it doesn't correlate to every character. We have to take into account when was the statement made, by whom, which characters were present at the moment, how this connects with other characters, or was said character going all out.

Calculations, when done accurately can provide a measure of a character's abilities. Again it depends on the characters and how it impact the story, are calcs more consistent than statements? This obviously requires a greater discussion at hand than we are having now.

I think everyone agrees that domain scaling is not reliable due to multiple factors, and understanding the point.

I would like to have a greater discussion on your view of the series, but damn is the wiki forums aren't the place with how finicky it can be. Just send me dm anytime.
 
PowerToScale said:
The idea that lightning speeds in jjk are Massively Hypersonic or being associated doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly stated in the story. Lightning itself has a general speed in the MHS ranges and the lightning in the story showcases properties of being that as well. Given that the ability is also made through the exact formation that natural lightning and made through the same elements of lightning, it doesn't always require direct confirmation in the narrative.
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In context to this verse and how much speed has been stated or emphasized is what I'm arguing though, you say it doesn't always require direct confirmation, I agree and I'm saying in this series it is needed due to what I listed.

PowerToScale said:
While characters like Naobito, Gojo, Naoya, Jogo, and Toji receive explicit emphasis on their speed, it doesn't correlate to every character. We have to take into account when was the statement made, by whom, which characters were present at the moment, how this connects with other characters, or was said character going all out.
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Yeah ofc, and specifically Naoya's statement is in reference to his evolved cursed spirit form that blitzes Maki, the physically gifted character who still needed a unique form of senses to predict Naoya's movements. Do we just throw out the significance for what being physically gifted is in the verse and say numerous other characters just randomly scale to her without any real mention or emphasis on their speed?

There's Naobito's statement of being the fastest sorcerer besides Gojo, stated two times and stated specifically after Hakari and Kashimo's fight that he's the fastest by Kamo, is Kamo just wrong now? Its a widely known fact the guy is the fastest and this idea is still being held even during the Culling Games when numerous characters are being introduced and other characters have progressed as well.

PowerToScale said:
Calculations, when done accurately can provide a measure of a character's abilities. Again it depends on the characters and how it impact the story, are calcs more consistent than statements? This obviously requires a greater discussion at hand than we are having now.
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And how do you think these characters being mhs would impact the story? Over 10 would be this btw: Hakari, Yuta, Uraume, Choso, Kenjaku, Gojo, Kashimo, Yuta, Maki, Yuki all have scaling in some way that gets them to Hakari and Kashimo. Or do we just say Kashimo and Hakari are disconnected from the scaling and only Sukuna and Gojo scale? How reasonable is this even? Refer back to my Maki and Naobito points to see how inconsistent this would make the story. Naobito praised for movements within 1/24 timeframe yet numerous people are tens of times faster than him this entire time? Or how about how no one could see the minute timeframe of 0.01 seconds except for Yuta who even says "maybe" fully acknowledging he isn't even sure of this.

There's so much other stuff that just doesn't fit into mhs scaling like the fact no one can do BF command as well.
 
Arkenis said:
Btw I think for the Hakari electricity feat as to at least give the feat some significance and acknowledgment calc wise this calc can be used since the lightning speed one is discard
Click to expand...
Either this or no no for that shit. Don't want to see its getting downplayed or low balled to subsonic. Just remove that feat itself if you guy's are going to use subsonic calculation for that.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
You know both are ā€œno noā€ right?
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Arkenis said:
They basically don't like that I propose we use a slower speed for the electricity that Kashimo releases for the feat. I'm just tryna let the feat have some presence for the sake of it being a feat tbh that Hakari can scale to.
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Btw I was talking about electricity end not lightning end. Either use that or just remove that feat itself.
 
Arkenis said:
how about how no one could see the minute timeframe of 0.01 seconds except for Yuta who even says "maybe" fully acknowledging he isn't even sure of this.
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I'm fine with Hakari MHS getting nuked as Outlier or whatever you people want. But stop using this and taking this out of context. Idk how many times I explained it in every thread. This is not speed of Yuta. It's about speed of clash between Gojo and Sukuna domain where Sukuna domain activation was slightly slower. It has nothing to do with what you are trying to say. We literally have Todo with perception speed of 0.01.

Unless You are trying to say Todo > Yuta in speed.
 
Arkenis said:
Yeah ofc, and specifically Naoya's statement is in reference to his evolved cursed spirit form that blitzes Maki, the physically gifted character who still needed a unique form of senses to predict Naoya's movements. Do we just throw out the significance for what being physically gifted is in the verse and say numerous other characters just randomly scale to her without any real mention or emphasis on their speed?

There's Naobito's statement of being the fastest sorcerer besides Gojo, stated two times and stated specifically after Hakari and Kashimo's fight that he's the fastest by Kamo, is Kamo just wrong now? Its a widely known fact the guy is the fastest and this idea is still being held even during the Culling Games when numerous characters are being introduced and other characters have progressed as well.
Click to expand...
The statement was made during their fight in the culling games, we have no knowledge of Hakari communicating with Maki and Kamo after his fight if at all during their time in the colony, also the statement itself can still be true. Naobito can still be the fastest, Hakari and Kashimo's fight and feats wouldn't discredit that.

Arkenis said:
And how do you think these characters being mhs would impact the story? Over 10 would be this btw: Hakari, Yuta, Uraume, Choso, Kenjaku, Gojo, Kashimo, Yuta, Maki, Yuki all have scaling in some way that gets them to Hakari and Kashimo. Or do we just say Kashimo and Hakari are disconnected from the scaling and only Sukuna and Gojo scale? How reasonable is this even? Refer back to my Maki and Naobito points to see how inconsistent this would make the story. Naobito praised for movements within 1/24 timeframe yet numerous people are tens of times faster than him this entire time? Or how about how no one could see the minute timeframe of 0.01 seconds except for Yuta who even says "maybe" fully acknowledging he isn't even sure of this.
Click to expand...
I can't say everyone would be MHS off the top of my head, however, them being MHS at this point in the series wouldn't impact the story that much. Back to the point above, them being those speed or close wouldn't discredit Naobito's statements or make inconsistencies. The 1/24 timeframe is pretty much useless without the context of distance. Because they are watching a fight that has a lot of things going on on top of what they're through, also how much less? as it doesn't contradict anything.

Arkenis said:
There's so much other stuff that just doesn't fit into mhs scaling like the fact no one can do BF command as well.
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Yeah because people latched onto the timeframe like a deer to headlights. Speed isn't the only thing that prevents people from using black flash will. You can be a billion times faster than the speed of light and not be able to do it at will. You need to lag cursed energy at will as well, something no one but Yuji can do as well as extreme concentration on the user's part as well.

Anyway, hope these brief answers help give you a better understanding of my view. I ain't writing all of that again for a 3rd time to get removed.
 
PowerToScale said:
The statement was made during their fight in the culling games, we have no knowledge of Hakari communicating with Maki and Kamo after his fight if at all during their time in the colony, also the statement itself can still be true. Naobito can still be the fastest, Hakari and Kashimo's fight and feats wouldn't discredit that.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't it discredit it? You saying Naobito's mhs? Cuz that's what I'm tryna say is the inconsistency, and its less about them communicating, its the fact Kamo still thinks this knowing how much stuff has just went down in Shibuya and they all did communicate with each other during the culling games about what they need to do and where everyone else is within the colonies.

PowerToScale said:
I can't say everyone would be MHS off the top of my head, however, them being MHS at this point in the series wouldn't impact the story that much. Back to the point above, them being those speed or close wouldn't discredit Naobito's statements or make inconsistencies. The 1/24 timeframe is pretty much useless without the context of distance. Because they are watching a fight that has a lot of things going on on top of what they're through, also how much less? as it doesn't contradict anything.
Click to expand...
No the timeframe is important, its what others need to be moving within to not be trapped in the frames by Naobito, also Naobito never shows any great distances traveled when using the ct, at most we have this calc of him covering 22m and using the 1/24 timeframe only gets us 539.6329224m/s, still far below any mhs speed and doesn't even reach 2x the sos (Mach 1.58).

The Yuta thing does contradict this heavily, him being unsure if he saw something in less than 0.01s is an anti-feat for his speed being hundreds of times higher than sos. At most we can say he's able to perceive stuff within 0.009 seconds, well within the subsonic range. So now we have Yuta being unsure if he saw something happen within 9 miliseconds, he's the greatest asset within the main fighting force and he somehow has perception hundreds of times lesser than Hakari's perception?

PowerToScale said:
Yeah because people latched onto the timeframe like a deer to headlights. Speed isn't the only thing that prevents people from using black flash will. You can be a billion times faster than the speed of light and not be able to do it at will. You need to lag cursed energy at will as well, something no one but Yuji can do as well as extreme concentration on the user's part as well.
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And yet my crt for it went through completely with no real counter and several mods accepted it and numerous people agreed with my arguments and the arguments of others in that thread. And of course we're gonna focus on timeframes, its one of the most important things when discussing speed, its something Gege emphasizes a lot on time and time again in the series.
 
On a trip to Italy and found one of these in the wild
gyx3RfO.jpg

The collection continues
 
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