Jujutsu Kaisen - Cursed Energy Enhances Speed

[EldemadeDityjon]

I have no idea why there is such an insistence on using KaiyoBreeze of all people’s unverified, unknown translations, when a known, reputable, and official translator in Lightning outright confirms Sukuna’s movement speed is fine.

Have you even checked the link you posted ?

ability to control Megumi’s body isn’t as bad as the CE drop when he goes on the offense

This is what's Lightning states. Why don't you mark and show me where he said Physical moments were not affected .

 

[Arkenis]

I guess people can't be off guard when tryna explain something now

 

[SunDaGamer]

I have no idea why there is such an insistence on using KaiyoBreeze of all people’s unverified, unknown translations, when a known, reputable, and official translator in Lightning outright confirms Sukuna’s movement speed is fine.

Lightning is literally saying the same thing as Kaiyo

1. “There are some irregularities, but my CE output is* falling below 10%…It’s doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but…”

For 2nd line, the nuance is that his ability to control Megumi’s body isn’t as bad as the CE drop when he goes on the offense

 

[SunDaGamer]

The punch was definitely in his line of sight. The anime makes it even clearer, he looks in Yuta’s direction and still gets punched.

Geto reacts to Yuta's punch in the movie by summoning a curse spirit to try to block the Black Flash

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I guess people can't be off guard when tryna explain something now

Why would you be off-guard after watching someone just try to behead you? I don’t even think you believe that.

Have you even checked the link you posted ?


This is what's Lightning states. Why don't you mark and show me where he said Physical moments were not affected .

I did, you cherry-picked as usual, considering the exact words were “It doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel”. The CE drop refers to his techniques (something Lightning says, btw), which is substantiated by the fact that Sukuna, again, says it only refers to his techniques, in various translations. Nice try.

 

[Arkenis]

Why would you be off-guard after watching someone just try to behead you? I don’t even think you believe that.

Getou was having fun and explaining an important aspect of jujutsu sorcery to his fellow sorcerer, he just ain't care to be on guard there.

 

[Giannysmag]

Why would you be off-guard after watching someone just try to behead you? I don’t even think you believe that.

I was gonna mention this as well, but it's possible that seeing Yuta's sword break made him think he has no option to fight him

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Getou was having fun and explaining an important aspect of jujutsu sorcery to his fellow sorcerer, he just ain't care to be on guard there.

To his fellow sorcerer, who he is explicitly trying to kill. Again, I don’t think you actually believe this, it’s silly to say he’s off-guard after he just avoided having his head chopped off. Hell, he even notes beforehand that all of his stats were amped due to a rush of emotions, then acknowledges he got even faster, but he was caught off guard?

 

[SunDaGamer]

I did, you cherry-picked as usual, considering the exact words were “It doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel”.

For 2nd line, the nuance is that his ability to control Megumi’s body isn’t as bad as the CE drop when he goes on the offense

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why did you ignore Lightning himself, on two separate occasions, saying that the CE drop in offense only refers to his CT instead of general movement and reinforcement?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I did, you cherry-picked as usual, considering the exact words were “It doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel”. The CE drop refers to his techniques (something Lightning says, btw), which is substantiated by the fact that Sukuna, again, says it only refers to his techniques, in various translations. Nice try.

Nice Strawmaning i don't care about other fan translation you brought up Lightning translation as your argument and that translation never stated anything about his moments speed being same.

I take you conceded on the part where I asked you to show me the line for Lighting saying Sukuna speed was fine. You made a claim with no proof.

 

[Arkenis]

To his fellow sorcerer, who he is explicitly trying to kill. Again, I don’t think you actually believe this, it’s silly to say he’s off-guard after he just avoided having his head chopped off. Hell, he even notes beforehand that all of his stats were amped due to a rush of emotions, then acknowledges he got even faster, but he was caught off guard?

All he said was physical ability, not all stats lol. And this point about him trying to kill or being almost beheaded don't matter. Getou is looking at a fellow sorcerer experiencing a new feeling in themselves and trying to help him. It's completely fine for him to let his guard down.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Nice Strawmaning i don't care about other fan translation you brought up Lightning translation as your argument and that translation never stated anything about his moments speed being same.

I take you conceded on the part where I asked you to show me the line for Lighting saying Sukuna speed was fine. You made a claim with no proof.

Bringing another translation isn’t a strawman, I don’t think you know what that word means. It did, Lightning says on two separate occasions that it does not refer to his movement speed or reinforcements, just CT output. You’re just ignoring that point and saying I haven’t substantiated my claim. I can’t concede if you plug your eyes and ears to anything you don’t like.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

All he said was physical ability, not all stats lol. And this point about him trying to kill or being almost beheaded don't matter. Getou is looking at a fellow sorcerer experiencing a new feeling in themselves and trying to help him. It's completely fine for him to let his guard down.

It does matter, unless we’re to believe Geto is, frankly, stupid. CE amps your physical ability, pretty sure that’s synonymous with stats, feels pretty semantical in all honesty.

 

[Arkenis]

It does matter, unless we’re to believe Geto is, frankly, stupid. CE amps your physical ability, pretty sure that’s synonymous with stats, feels pretty semantical in all honesty.

No just him letting his guard down is fine. Amps physical ability, not every aspect of it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bringing another translation isn’t a strawman, I don’t think you know what that word means.

Honestly I doubt you know the meaning yourself

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

Let me spit it out why your argument is strawmaning. You brought Lightining translation as your argument the moment I asked you to prove what you claimed based on Lightining translation you ducked and brought up another translation which has no relationship with Lightining translation

It did, Lightning says on two separate occasions that it does not refer to his movement speed or reinforcements, just CT output. You’re just ignoring that point and saying I haven’t substantiated my claim. I can’t concede if you plug your eyes and ears to anything you don’t like.

Nice cherry picking. There are two different explaination Sukuna gave

• His CT/CE output is decreasing below 10%
• Compared to that his moments is not as bad as his CT/CE Output decrease.

Also feel free to take your time and learn the meaning of Not bad or not so bad. Here if you need explanation for what It meant.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/not-bad#:~:text=in%20American%20English-,Informal,full%20dictionary%20entry%20for%20bad

I can't help you if you don't understand this simple explanation

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Honestly I doubt you know the meaning yourself

Ironic, coming from you.

Let me spit it out why your argument is strawmaning. You brought Lightining translation as your argument the moment I asked you to prove what you claimed based on Lightining translation you ducked and brought up another translation which has no relationship with Lightining translation

So not only have you misinterpreted what my point was, you just didn’t understand, which isn’t exactly off the course with you. I brought up my second translation to bolster my original point, that’s what you call supporting evidence, which may be a new concept for someone as mentally absent as you.

Nice cherry picking.

Ironic, coming from you.

• His CT/CE output is decreasing below 10%
• Compared to that his moments is not as bad as his CT/CE Output decrease.

Also feel free to take your time and learn the meaning of Not bad or not so bad. Here if you need explanation for what It meant.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/not-bad#:~:text=in%20American%20English-,Informal,full%20dictionary%20entry%20for%20bad
I can't help you if you don't understand this simple explanation

Note, he only says “not bad”, or “not so bad”, in that one unknown translation of yours. Not under Viz, not under TCB, not under Lightning, not under my translator. That’s 4-1, but you’ll ignore this and throw in some random logical fallacy you just searched up to avoid the argument. You can’t help me, simply because you don’t have any intention of listening to anything that dismantles your subpar understanding of language.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So not only have you misinterpreted what my point was, you just didn’t understand, which isn’t exactly off the course with you. I brought up my second translation to bolster my original point, that’s what you call supporting evidence, which may be a new concept for someone as mentally absent as you.

I did read what you sent which has no relationship with what you Initially claimed. Lightining states CE reinforcement is not affected not moment. Yeah you did make an strawman argument bringing another Translation.

Note, he only says “not bad”, or “not so bad”, in that one unknown translation of yours. Not under Viz, not under TCB, not under Lightning, not under my translator. That’s 4-1, but you’ll ignore this and throw in some random logical fallacy you just searched up to avoid the argument. You can’t help me, simply because you don’t have any intention of listening to anything that dismantles your subpar understanding of language.

Actually, Sukuna’s CE drop affected only his CT’s CE output: every time he referred to it, it was always w.r.t. Cleave/Dismantle; his CE reinforcement was still fine. Maki was physically keeping up w/ 15F Sukuna (and she didn’t even use her sword which ignores durability either)

Just gonna drop this here. Really tired of people trying to Imply Maki ~ 15F Sukuna

Megumi Body (which is weaker than Yuji normal Physical body & Maki Heavenly Restriction) + less than 10% of Cursed Energy output. Also it wasn't stated his physical moment is fine. Raws states it's not that bad implying Megumi still hold some amount of control

Megumi might not have resistance on same level as Yuji but he was still putting up a fight & it did showed that vessel can indeed control physical moments.

Feel free to read my all arguments once again thoroughly. I didn't even made a single statement about CE reinforcement.
My claim was Megumi body hindering Sukuna moment which has nothing to do with CE reinforcement.

Sukuna clearly mentioned

It's doesn't go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but...

Sukuna is comparing his moment is not bad when compared to his CT/CE Output.

I can see you still not understanding anything and bringing up another argument for CE reinforcement which has nothing to do with what I claimed about vessel hindering the moment

 

[ImmortalDread]

Elde and Milly should never interact with each other. Anyway, my generalised opinion whether CE boosts speed or not, I am in the same boat as @Duedate8898

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I did read what you sent which has no relationship with what you Initially claimed. Lightining states CE reinforcement is not affected not moment. Yeah you did make an strawman argument bringing another Translation.

The basis of this thread is that CE reinforcement includes speed amps. So him saying reinforcement isn’t affected is directly correlated to output. I’m not going to argue with you about the strawmanning point any longer, feel free to think that I strawmanned you.

Feel free to read my all arguments once again thoroughly. I didn't even made a single statement about CE reinforcement.
My claim was Megumi body hindering Sukuna moment which has nothing to do with CE reinforcement.

Refer to earlier point.

Sukuna is comparing his moment is not bad when compared to his CT/CE Output.

I can see you still not understanding anything and bringing up another argument for CE reinforcement which has nothing to do with what I claimed about vessel hindering the moment

Note, he only says “not bad”, or “not so bad”, in that one unknown translation of yours. Not under Viz, not under TCB, not under Lightning, not under my translator.

All my arguments have remained the same. His reinforcement and movement are consistently fine.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The basis of this thread is that CE reinforcement includes speed amps. So him saying reinforcement isn’t affected is directly correlated to output. I’m not going to argue with you about the strawmanning point any longer, feel free to think that I strawmanned you.

Refer to earlier point.

Basis of this or not I was pointing out overall Maki speed doesn't scale to 15F Sukuna KT was trying to use argument of

Maki speed ~ 15F Sukuna ~ 3F Sukuna ~ Toji

I was just clarifying him Sukuna moment was hindered by Megumi but extent is unknown still to some point.

All my arguments have remained the same. His reinforcement and movement are consistently fine.

Check the image in your link which lightning using

It's doesn't go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but...

Your TCB translation.

Though It Seems He Still Has Minimal Influence Over His Flesh I Can Still Move Unhindered

Idk who is this your Translator is but when compared to above 2 your Translator translation is like half of it

My movement is not the same, though...

If Sukuna moment was not hindered he would say

It doesn't hinder any of my moments in this vessel or something direct statement to point out there is no problem with his vessels moment

but instead he made a statement like

It's doesn't go as far as hindering my movements in this vessel, but...

Though It Seems He Still Has Minimal Influence Over His Flesh I Can Still Move Unhindered

Which all points out some level of influence Megumi had on the body. Sukuna needed bath & to Kill his Sister to completely gain Megumi body control. Don't see where this notion comes from Megumi had zero influence on his body moment.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The thread notes speed, which is a broad topic. Reactions, combat, travel, flight, perception, etc.
So while I do agree with speed being increased, I disagree with all types of speed being increased.

If Cursed Energy is pointed to be increased, then that's fine. I just don't know about all of these examples.

This is a good point, for movement speed.
The OP specifically notes this for movement speed in the blog, which I bolded.
It is important to note that Geto dodged the swing, so combat speed wasn't shown to be augmented in this scan.

The graph does provide information that their physical stats do get increased by cursed energy, specifically motor skills. But it doesn't note combat speed.
Motor Skills do not reference combat speed specifically for everyone ready to crucify me.
The 5 basic motor skills are sitting, standing, walking, running, and jumping. None of these are combat speed.
Yuji can run 50m in 3 seconds. That is preposterous. But instead people care more about him swinging faster than sound instead of him breaking every running speed record in the real world.

I hope you don't mind I condesned a lot of that post to the main points I wanted to address. If you feel there is something important I left out then feel free to ring up and I'll address those separately.

Overall, I don't quite see the logic here. Speed for most character achieving the effects by themselves is inherently top down in nature based on the complexity of the activity involved. That is to say, Pereption leads into cognition which leads to reactions which leads to movements which lead to more complex movements. You can't really increase someone's travel speed significantly without also buffing their bodies more fundamental processes that allow for such. This is pretty obvious in humans, given a person's punch speed greatly outspeed even the faster sprinters run speed. If we were to increase, say Usain's bolt speed from 29mph to 50mph, he would also need to get speed boosts to his more fundamental speed stats in order to properly cooridnate the more complete movements.

We see vs Geto that Yuta's speed is inherently amped beyond what he was previously capable of doing. Geto was relatively aucing Maki and Panda, who up onto that point were still relative to Yuta. Further more if we look at what Geto actually said, there isn't really a way to divorce the effects from reaction/combat speed.

I suspect this is the first time in your life you've felt so feverous Your body is brimming with Cursed Energy.Your physical abilities have improved, and your all-around abilities* and your fives sense have also been honed.

万能感. I couldn't find any great definitions of this word other than "omnipotence" which I don't think really fits here. But Ithink this is what he's getting at. But lmk if I have it wrong

This is also reflected by Mei Mei herself getting capped based on her own physical limits and her CE limits. Meaning CE is allowing her to go beyond her physical limits (which would include speed/reactions, etc) but only to a certain extent before she plateau's.

 

[KingTempest]

I hope you don't mind I condesned a lot of that post to the main points I wanted to address. If you feel there is something important I left out then feel free to ring up and I'll address those separately.

Overall, I don't quite see the logic here. Speed for most character achieving the effects by themselves is inherently top down in nature based on the complexity of the activity involved. That is to say, Pereption leads into cognition which leads to reactions which leads to movements which lead to more complex movements. You can't really increase someone's travel speed significantly without also buffing their bodies more fundamental processes that allow for such. This is pretty obvious in humans, given a person's punch speed greatly outspeed even the faster sprinters run speed. If we were to increase, say Usain's bolt speed from 29mph to 50mph, he would also need to get speed boosts to his more fundamental speed stats in order to properly cooridnate the more complete movements.

We see vs Geto that Yuta's speed is inherently amped beyond what he was previously capable of doing. Geto was relatively aucing Maki and Panda, who up onto that point were still relative to Yuta. Further more if we look at what Geto actually said, there isn't really a way to divorce the effects from reaction/combat speed.


This is also reflected by Mei Mei herself getting capped based on her own physical limits and her CE limits. Meaning CE is allowing her to go beyond her physical limits (which would include speed/reactions, etc) but only to a certain extent before she plateau's.

With all due respect, all you said is that "if 1 speed is increased then all of them are", which we... don't accept

 

[Dr._whiteee]

With all due respect, all you said is that "if 1 speed is increased then all of them are", which we... don't accept

Not really, I am saying if the amp to speed is one that is top down, his reactions would also need to be amped. CE works this way, which is highlighted by Geto mentioning that his physical abilities, overall abilities, and senses have all been honed by his CE. Which would mean it does indeed apply to all levels of speed in this instance.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

@EldemadeDityjon will respond to your point in time (this thread isn’t shy of 6 pages anyways so I’ll have time), got out of the hospital, so.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

This is a horrible explanation.

Yuji sucking at manipulating cursed energy doesn't stop the cursed energy from doing his job. It would amp his body like it already did for the entire series.

Because it only shows the amp in travel speed and Geto dodges the slash?

I havent fully read the thread as of yet but this here irks me, you are ignoring the whole point about CE control that we got from todo

CE doesn't work like KI it requires constant effort to have it properly flowing through you or it will simply flow from you like how it happens with none socerers

The reason for double impact is because Yuji is focusing his CE improperly which leads to yuji focusing his CE in one spot but due to this improper flow and his application being a second late, it leads to cursed energy being expelled like a blast into a person instead of in cullmination with the punch itself
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_140_18.jpg

 

[Panache_x]

Didn't envision a verse such as Jujutsu Kaisen where a few individuals aside regular humans, that employs a supernatural energy to perform supernatural abilities in its explicit manner will ever get a debate on if said energy increases their speed. A bit late to the party, but regardless.

Since it was visibly due to his own physical stats overtaking Yuji's.

This interpretation is massively misleading as Megumi did not state it was due to his physical stats, he stated - or implied - it was not due to just that, but the addition of Jujutsu Sorcery along side the body's immersive physical capabilities. We've seen Megumi acknowledge Yuji's speed previously. Ryomen taking good advantage of his host body immersive physical capabilities along side his own Cursed Energy manipulation led to that degree of speed. Sukuna there was not applying a total reincarnation, so his own physical capabilities were not what was being in play. Additionally, Megumi reference Toji to have a similar level of speed with that particular Sukuna level, but without the use of Cursed Energy as Sukuna did.

Means nothing for speed, since Jogo was > Naobito yet slower

You sure you read Jujutsu Kaisen?
Naobito applies Projection Sorcery to achieve his speed level. Jogo being below him in speed doesn't contradict the proposal. And don't misconcept a higher Cursed Energy volume for better manipulation.

Since his body already has a set "infinite" amount of CE, yet it was still increasing yet having the same amount of CE, plus domains increasing stats already

Domain Increasing physical capabilities and not Cursed Energy potencies is another topic, regardless, having an infinite amount of Cursed Energy doesn't necessitate he can Output all at once. He got faster by constantly increasing Output.

As it ignores that 15F Sukuna also kept up with Gojo who kept up with 20F Sukuna, showing the fingers don't show a speed increase

That was Satoru trying to kill a slower Kenjaku.
You're heavily implying the 1 Finger Sukuna that Satoru sat on is relative in speed with 19 Fingers Sukuna that could extensively fight Satoru. Crazy logic up there.

Most of these show an increase in travel speed, which is definitely fair, showing them enhance their muscles to propel just like Yuta.

That's just a silly argument, honestly. The author specifically stated "Physical Ability". Need not much talk on this. Physical ability was never limited to covering long distances.

Someone's already properly addressed Yuji's Cursed Energy lags. Anyways, you specifically ignored Toji stated to be as fast as Sukuna without Cursed Energy. Showing a vivid suprise as to how that's possible.

Satoru alongside Sukuna, are the best Cursed Energy manipulators in the verse, they stand at the pinnacle of the verses speed.
You're suggesting Satoru was innately born with an insane level of speed. You're suggesting that every Jujutsu Sorcerer are not faster than a regular human because of Cursed Energy, but because they are just that way. That's absurd.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah I was talking to @Giannysmag regarding Megumi was talking about Yuji physics not Sukuna physics. KT interpretation was wrong on that point. Well I was too lazy to type all that shit.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah I quit since yall not reading then

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Yeah I agree CE enhances speed.

 

[SuperStar]

Bump

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Bump

NO

Better to make another one later

 

[Nierre]

the votes are already 2-1 in favor of the thread. just get more staff opinions. there's no need to make a new one.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

eh fine

 

[JnSteHar002]

I'm in agreement that CE enhances speed as well