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Jotaro vs Raiden (0-1-0)

Baken384

Baken384

He/Him
3,603
3,750
Jotaro Kujo (Part 3) Vs Raiden (Mortal Kombat)

Jotaro's AP: P3 Star Platinum>P4 Star Platinum>Morioh RHCP (7.83 Tons)
Raiden's AP: 10.723 Tons
  • Speed Equalized
  • SDC Jotaro is used
  • First Key Raiden is used
  • Jotaro does not have Time Stop
  • Both start off 15 Meters away from each other
  • Fight takes place in UA Sports Festival Arena with many people watching.
Jotaro Kujo:
Raiden: 1 (Mazdoesstuff)
Inconclusive:
 
Last edited:
Raiden should be able to outrange via lightning attacks and flight. He has demonstrated willingness to use said moves when threatened and Jotaro doesn't have time stop. This is basically Jotaro vs The Sun all over again. I think you actually should give him time stop
 
Baken384 said:
I don't think Raiden would feel threatened by Jotaro from the get go unless he could sense Star Platinum
Click to expand...
Also if Raiden did run and try to outrange Jotaro. Jotaro has his own projectiles of his own, aka punching the ground and throwing the rocks he gets from destroying some part of the ground. At maximum it could go so far as 400 meters (As shown with him throwing Iggy) He could probably do precise projectile throws thanks to his extreme precision.

Could Star Platinum block Jotaro from Lightning? I'm not sure so that's the others to decide.
 
Baken384 said:
I don't think Raiden would feel threatened by Jotaro from the get go unless he could sense Star Platinum
Click to expand...
No but seeing a guy crush rocks without moving a muscle is pretty suspicious. It's basically telekinesis in his point of view

Also Raiden has extrasensory perception. That should let him see Star Platinum, right? (I remember all stand users having extrasensory and that allowed them to see other stands. It should work here too I suppose or at least let him know something is wrong)
 
Peppersalt43 said:
No but seeing a guy crush rocks without moving a muscle is pretty suspicious. It's basically telekinesis in his point of view
Click to expand...
I mean that only happens if Raiden does decide to go for the route of range spamming Jotaro as his first move. I'm pretty sure Jotaro's first move and a classic move of his is to try closing the range and beat the shit out of his opponent at close range.
Peppersalt43 said:
Also Raiden has extrasensory perception. That should let him see Star Platinum, right? (I remember all stand users having extrasensory and that allowed them to see other stands. It should work here too I suppose or at least let him know something is wrong)
Click to expand...
I dunno how potent Raiden's extrasensory perception, since Stand Users has enhanced extrasensory perception, at the stand page of the wiki it says there
"Note: In order to see, touch or sense Stands, the character in question would need some form of enhanced Extrasensory Perception and enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, something above what ghosts can see, sense or touch. This is because not even ghosts or spirts can see or touch Stands, as seen with Reimi Sugimoto interactions with Heaven's Door. Another instance where this happened, was when Mikitaka could not see Crazy Diamond, but was able to see and interact with Reimi Sugimoto."
 
Hmm, For Jotaro's case:

If the fight goes into close range, Raiden might be in trouble as he has no way to determine when,how and where Star Platinum would hit him. Star Platinum can land many blows and Raiden has no chance of blocking it if he does not know where to block in the first place, Star Platinum might even have the speed advantage just a bit if Jotaro was really close to SP. His Lifting Strength is also there to help Jotaro restrain Raiden, ragdoll him around and possibly punch his face for free.

For Jotaro to deal with Raiden's flight, Jotaro still has his mobility option, aka Star Platinum to use stand leaps to propel himself towards Raiden, or Star Platinum grabbing Jotaro and throwing him to Raiden if he is forced to. It ain't as good as Raiden's true flight but it is a better option to have than none. He could use stand leaps to close the gap in terms of mobility he is alright.

For Jotaro to deal with Electricity, if Jotaro can block the electricity Raiden sends out with Star Platinum, he wouldn't get damaged which is a great thing for Jotaro so he has a defensive shield. He can probably use Star Platinum like just right in front of him as some sort of pseudo armor so electricity just won't get pass star platinum and boom Jotaro dead. In terms of Defense, Jotaro is solid thanks to Star Platinum but if Raiden can get pass Star Platinum aka Jotaro's shield, Jotaro is essentially toast.

Jotaro also has a potent stat amp and another stat amp in his kit, his rage amp and stand rules amp. He is quick to anger so if Raiden pulls bs he can probably get pissed off, it was potent enough to pull off one shots towards The World, the stand that exceeded Star Platinum's power and was essentially bullying him at the start of the match, Prime Jotaro exists too if he is super omega angry but I doubt that would ever happen in this match up. He has his other stat amp aka the Stand Rules, the closer the stand is to the user, the faster and stronger it is, a speed advantage would def be pretty useful for Jotaro so Star Platinum can defend Jotaro from shit Raiden throws at him at a better rate.


In terms of ranged options, like I said above he can bust the ground, grab different rocks from various sizes and throw them as projectiles at fast speeds towrds Raiden. It can go as far as a few hundred meters so Jotaro has the ranged advantage with his rock projectiles. Star Platinum could make a great rock thrower once you combine in his enhanced precision, essentially a sniper at that point but instead of bullets, its rocks or anything he could find and throw for that matter.

Star Platinum also has phasing but I doubt he would use it for this match since SP is comparable to Raiden but its still something that exists but it is an unlikely one.
 
Time Stop is restricted because this isn't Star Platinum: The World, right? I mean, it's a matter of key, not or overall restriction.

Baken384 said:
I don't think Raiden would feel threatened by Jotaro from the get go unless he could sense Star Platinum
Click to expand...
Raiden isn't one who underestimates the opponent, tho, and has dealt with esotic fighting styles before, so he isn't likely to underestimate his opponent.
With ESP, he can sense energy signatures, and his Enhanced Senses allow him to feel the presence of people in a realm, tho I don't know if it works on intangible beings.
He may feel the presence of Star Platinum, as stands are made of fighting spirit, which may count as energy, but Raiden's ESP don't seem that precise on that regard.

Baken384 said:
Also if Raiden did run and try to outrange Jotaro. Jotaro has his own projectiles of his own, aka punching the ground and throwing the rocks he gets from destroying some part of the ground. At maximum it could go so far as 400 meters (As shown with him throwing Iggy) He could probably do precise projectile throws thanks to his extreme precision.
Click to expand...
Raiden can fly, counter with his lightinings (attacks and forcefields), and most of all, teleport around, which he does a lot, and also he has good acrobatics.
Star Platinum is very precise (tho I don't remember feats), so he shouldn't totally be outmatched, but rocks aren't the most efficient projectiles either.
Most people in the MK verse also use projectiles, meaning he's used and dealing with them.


Baken384 said:
If the fight goes into close range, Raiden might be in trouble as he has no way to determine when,how and where Star Platinum would hit him. Star Platinum can land many blows and Raiden has no chance of blocking it if he does not know where to block in the first place, Star Platinum might even have the speed advantage just a bit if Jotaro was really close to SP. His Lifting Strength is also there to help Jotaro restrain Raiden, ragdoll him around and possibly punch his face for free.
Click to expand...
Raiden has quite a lot of fighting experience (both for sheer age and for number and quality of opponents) and is a master martial artist, even if he wasn't able to sense SP at all, he wouldn't be defenseless against someone who basically punches your upper body a lot, and would quickly understand that the one who fights isn't Jotaro, and also may notice SP range limit.
Restraining Raiden is possible, yes, but he can also teleport and release lightinings or flashes of light to at least affect Jotaro in some way.

Peppersalt43 said:
Raiden should be able to outrange via lightning attacks and flight. He has demonstrated willingness to use said moves when threatened and Jotaro doesn't have time stop. This is basically Jotaro vs The Sun all over again. I think you actually should give him time stop
Click to expand...
Correct, Raiden is prone at frying the opponents with streams of lighting (1, 2, 3, 4).


Baken384 said:
For Jotaro to deal with Electricity, if Jotaro can block the electricity Raiden sends out with Star Platinum, he wouldn't get damaged which is a great thing for Jotaro so he has a defensive shield. He can probably use Star Platinum like just right in front of him as some sort of pseudo armor so electricity just won't get pass star platinum and boom Jotaro dead. In terms of Defense, Jotaro is solid thanks to Star Platinum but if Raiden can get pass Star Platinum aka Jotaro's shield, Jotaro is essentially toast.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know how that would work, since Stands can interact with and stop physical things (like bullets), the same may be possible for lightnings.
But yet again, it wouldn't take much for Raiden to understand that there's an invisible thing that acts as a shield and an attacker, and he may try to get right into Jotaro with teleportation, and from close distance he has many projectiles, bombs, explosions and more that travel through the air and the ground or two different points (like lightnings traveling between two orbs or him and his staff) or summon them directly over Jotaro.

The stats amp bit of the previous message is totally valid.


Overall, I'd say Raiden has more chances of winning, but I may change my vote.
 
Is noteworthy that SP also has an insane speed advantage to Raiden. If he goes too close to Jotaro, he may get blitzed. (Though still a weird ruling of speed equal, but apparently it's legit so meh)

This also applies to any projectile or thing Raiden tries to launch to Jotaro directly if they aren't of sufficient AoE to bypass SP, as SP can act by its own.
 
SamanPatou said:
Time Stop is restricted because this isn't Star Platinum: The World, right? I mean, it's a matter of key, not or overall restriction.
Click to expand...
Yes, this Jotaro is the one without the Time Stop.
SamanPatou said:
Raiden isn't one who underestimates the opponent, tho, and has dealt with esotic fighting styles before, so he isn't likely to underestimate his opponent.
With ESP, he can sense energy signatures, and his Enhanced Senses allow him to feel the presence of people in a realm, tho I don't know if it works on intangible beings.
He may feel the presence of Star Platinum, as stands are made of fighting spirit, which may count as energy, but Raiden's ESP don't seem that precise on that regard.
Click to expand...
If Raiden's Extrasensory Perception is way above ghosts then he can probably see them. If not then he probably can't, though maybe he can sense Star Platinum but im not too sure about that one.
Sure Raiden will not underestimate Jotaro here but I do not think he would immediately resort to range spamming against Jotaro from the get go, he does not have the knowledge of Jotaro's power.
SamanPatou said:
Raiden can fly, counter with his lightinings (attacks and forcefields), and most of all, teleport around, which he does a lot, and also he has good acrobatics.
Star Platinum is very precise (tho I don't remember feats), so he shouldn't totally be outmatched, but rocks aren't the most efficient projectiles either.
Most people in the MK verse also use projectiles, meaning he's used and dealing with them.
Click to expand...
Yes that is true, rocks aren't the most efficient projectile to use but it is something Jotaro has access since that's his only ranged option at this point. It ain't much but it still exists for Jotaro to use if Raiden decides to Range Spam, maybe he could land a few projectiles thanks to Star Platinum's precision so his aim should be pretty decent

Star Platinum's Precision feats was able to do surgically a thing that not even the world's best doctors could ever hope to achieve, was able to draw a small fly with precision despite it being a low quality picture and catching The Lovers who is incredibly small, like a size of a fly. It's eyesight could see kilometers away and could catch D'arby, a great gambler, cheating. Star Platinum is also stated to have more precision than a machine.
Star Platinum should also be able to scale to the likes of Silver Chariot whose precision is so great that it literally formed a clock made out of fire by Avdol's own fire attack since he tried attacking Polnareff with it or carving a statue of Magician's Red by deflecting Avdol's own flame attacks once again towards some one random bird statue and was able to stab four coins with flames in between those coins.

I don't know if this is enough but these are the precision feats and the precision feats Star Platinum scales to.
SamanPatou said:
Raiden has quite a lot of fighting experience (both for sheer age and for number and quality of opponents) and is a master martial artist, even if he wasn't able to sense SP at all, he wouldn't be defenseless against someone who basically punches your upper body a lot, and would quickly understand that the one who fights isn't Jotaro, and also may notice SP range limit.
Restraining Raiden is possible, yes, but he can also teleport and release lightinings or flashes of light to at least affect Jotaro in some way.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Raiden should be no slouch in terms of his fighting experience. For Jotaro on the other hand, he should be a skilled fighter as he was trading hands with Anubis who had not only memorized Jotaro's techniques, he had also memorized the moves of Polnareff who had been training his stand for like 10 Years. It would be hard for Raiden to combat something he can't really see or interact with.
Also true, Raiden wouldn't be completely defenseless but Jotaro would be able to land different free hits onto Raiden since he would have a hard time predicting where Jotaro will punch and Jotaro could mix it up by using kicks too.
SamanPatou said:
I honestly don't know how that would work, since Stands can interact with and stop physical things (like bullets), the same may be possible for lightnings.
But yet again, it wouldn't take much for Raiden to understand that there's an invisible thing that acts as a shield and an attacker, and he may try to get right into Jotaro with teleportation, and from close distance he has many projectiles, bombs, explosions and more that travel through the air and the ground or two different points (like lightnings traveling between two orbs or him and his staff) or summon them directly over Jotaro.
Click to expand...
Well if Star Platinum couldn't block the lightning, then that wouldn't be good for Jotaro and it would be a GG for Raiden. if Star Platinum can block it then Jotaro is still in the game, he would keep Star Platinum near him so he can defend himself from the different attacks Raiden could pull out. Jotaro should be able to take notice that Raiden would slowly adapt to him by doing strategies as keeping his ranged or using stuff like Teleportation since he did fight a foe with some sort of teleportation (DIO), it would keep him on alert at all times once he busts out a teleportation move. Projectiles could be blocked by Star Platinum and using Stand Leaps to avoid bigger attacks or to close the gap. If the lightning from the sky attack is obvious, Jotaro can use Star Platinum as an umbrella of some sorts to block it. I don't know if this could work on Raiden, Jotaro could play dead after the onslaught of attacks from Raiden, waiting for the opportunity to strike Raiden, Jotaro does have great willpower after all as shown in Part 4 he was nearly killed by an explosion but he still stood up. Star Platinum being able to act on it's own with its self preservation could help Jotaro last longer in the battle.

Though i must admit, if Raiden comes up with a strategy with his teleportation he could land his lightnight attacks much easier onto Jotaro because Jotaro not knowing where his opponent is could leave him absolutely open for attacks, no matter how fast Jotaro's Star Platinum is in this case since Speed Equalized for alland even if Star Platinum is slightly faster thanks to Stat Amp as stated by N'Doul "It doesn't matter how fast Star Platinum is! If you don't know where I'm attacking from, I'm still faster!" which is not a good sign for Jotaro unless he pulls the same trick during the Justice Fight by making Star Platinum rotate around Jotaro constantly as defense since he was being jumped on by all sides by peeps.
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
(Though still a weird ruling of speed equal, but apparently it's legit so meh)
Click to expand...
I don't buy the Stands are not Equalized in speed bullshit because if that was true, literally he can perceive all of Raiden's attacks in slow motion and which gives Jotaro enough time to block it with Star Platinum or using stand leaps to get out of the way with success. ***** confusing.
 
Baken384 said:
I don't buy the Stands are not Equalized in speed bullshit because if that was true, literally he can perceive all of Raiden's attacks in slow motion and which gives Jotaro enough time to block it with Star Platinum or using stand leaps to get out of the way with success. ***** confusing.
Click to expand...
It's certainly a weird as hell ruling, but eh, not the end of the world.
 
Baken384 said:
If Raiden's Extrasensory Perception is way above ghosts then he can probably see them. If not then he probably can't, though maybe he can sense Star Platinum but im not too sure about that one.
Sure Raiden will not underestimate Jotaro here but I do not think he would immediately resort to range spamming against Jotaro from the get go, he does not have the knowledge of Jotaro's power.
Click to expand...
His ESP is currently limited to sensing energies, while his enhanced senses (which could very well be ESP) have him sensing the presence of people in the realm Raiden is in, but we don't have details about any specific or limitation.
Raiden is still likely to start with ranged attacks, since by vs rules he knows that Jotaro is his enemy, and Raiden usually starts either with a stream of lightnings or by charging the opponent with a flying tackle or a flying kick.


Baken384 said:
Well if Star Platinum couldn't block the lightning, then that wouldn't be good for Jotaro and it would be a GG for Raiden. if Star Platinum can block it then Jotaro is still in the game, he would keep Star Platinum near him so he can defend himself from the different attacks Raiden could pull out. Jotaro should be able to take notice that Raiden would slowly adapt to him by doing strategies as keeping his ranged or using stuff like Teleportation since he did fight a foe with some sort of teleportation (DIO), it would keep him on alert at all times once he busts out a teleportation move. Projectiles could be blocked by Star Platinum and using Stand Leaps to avoid bigger attacks or to close the gap. If the lightning from the sky attack is obvious, Jotaro can use Star Platinum as an umbrella of some sorts to block it. I don't know if this could work on Raiden, Jotaro could play dead after the onslaught of attacks from Raiden, waiting for the opportunity to strike Raiden, Jotaro does have great willpower after all as shown in Part 4 he was nearly killed by an explosion but he still stood up. Star Platinum being able to act on it's own with its self preservation could help Jotaro last longer in the battle.
Click to expand...
I agree, tho it should be noted that Jotaro's 9-B dura means he's getting oneshot by anything, lightnings included since Raiden's carry blunt force with them.
Imho, since Stands can interact with the world, I'd say SP would be able to block electricity.
However, given Raiden's great variety of projectiles (blasts, lightnings, attacks from the sky, projectiles that travel through the ground, stationary mines that send bolts between each other...) it would be difficult for SP to block everything at any moment, considering that Raiden can also teleport behind or near Jotaro and oneshot him.
 
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules

Jotaro is Superhuman in combat speed with a Massively FTL summon that's also hyper precise. I'm pretty sure Star Platinum can just block everything for Jotaro without much issue.
 
And yes, Jotaro is indeed the one fighting here. SP is a summon with it's own speed, AP, Dura, SS, Intelligence, hax, etc. Connected to Jotaro on a spiritual level or not SP does indeed fall under the issue of, it's not Jotaro's speed. Just because something is spammed and usually used doesn't make it automatically what gets equalized. Unless you wanna tell me Shirou Emiya's speed with Projections are what fall under speed equalization when he isn't the faster party starting out.
 
If stands aren't effect by speed equalization, then this becomes a speed blitz, and all the Jojo matches currently on profiles should be re-evaluated.
 
We first need to establish whether or not stands are affected by the speed equalization, because if they aren't, SP stomps Raiden and the match is invalid.
 
I mean, in the case of stands I really believe their speed is equalized since the one fighting are the stands and the stand is the only way in which the characters can reach the higher tier (in this case High 8-C), is not a Jotaro against Raiden and more a SP against Raiden, Jotaro is only around because SP can't fight without him.
DaReaperMan said:
Unless you wanna tell me Shirou Emiya's speed with Projections are what fall under speed equalization when he isn't the faster party starting out.
Click to expand...
In the case of Shirou he almost always begin the fights already using projections since that's the only way in which he he can reach 6-C so that indeed is equalized, or the fight is 9-A and he have restricted the projections since they are a amp that put him at 6-C.
 
Well if the Stand speed not being equalized stuff is legit, then I guess this is a stomp. There's no way to touch Jotaro here.
 
Honestly there's so much debate over it in every jojo Match i introduce it in I think we should probably just make a QnA to settle it
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I mean, in the case of stands I really believe their speed is equalized since the one fighting are the stands and the stand is the only way in which the characters can reach the higher tier (in this case High 8-C), is not a Jotaro against Raiden and more a SP against Raiden, Jotaro is only around because SP can't fight without him.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't see how there is any sense that the speed equal isn't applied to the stands even though the one actually fighting is SP since it's the only thing that is High 8-C and thus can fight Raiden. The example of Shirou is also really bad for the reasons I stated.
 
M3X said:
I think you should just creating a thread explaning your point, so we can debate that idea and actually write it somewhere in the verse page.
Click to expand...
I told this to Chariot when he asked on my wall, I'd like to not derail this thread with that so we should continue it there


"My argument is that because for stand users anyway, because it is the person themselves fighting and not the stand, that due to Versus Thread Rules... rules on speed equalization that the stand would retain its massive speed advantage on most people. IE since Kira is Peak Human but Killer Queen is Rela+ when the speed gets equalized to Kira's Peak Human because he's the one fighting, not Killer Queen as that's a summon. Which means Killer Queen is still relativistic+ whereas the opponent got equalized to Kira's Peak Human."
 
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