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Joseph Joestar vs Kacchan

M3X said:
Joseph doesn't need openings, he can create them himself, and did so against enemies much stronger and smarter than Bakugou. Rush towards Joseph, is that the best you can argue for Bakugo? Really? Do that and instantly get dozens of grenades trapped in your body ready to explode.
Click to expand...
How is he gonna create openings while getting nuked? And yes rush at joseph, bakugo has a huge range and can fly, joeseph can't stop him and he gets nuked.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
How is he gonna create openings while getting nuked? And yes rush at joseph, bakugo has a huge range and can fly, joeseph can't stop him and he gets nuked.
Click to expand...
The same way he put grenades on an vampire without him even knowing during the middle of the fight and the same way he wrapped a wire around acdc's hand and later on his body in the middle of the fight without him even realising and also did something similar with kars with a rope
 
Ya know I think Joseph should have been a plastic surgeon, cause he does slight of hand stuff so clean and smooth. Here I am struggling to type on mobile, dang I gotta do practise
 
Rez said:
The same way he put grenades on an vampire without him even knowing during the middle of the fight and the same way he wrapped a wire around acdc's hand and later on his body in the middle of the fight without him even realising and also did something similar with kars with a rope
Click to expand...
Bakugo is blowing him up at range. Also joseph is getting blown up and knocked around by attacks 4x stronger than him, so how exactly is he gonna do all these super intricate movements?
 
On a different note, it matters not to me whatever the result of this thread is.

But I'm just gonna point out that Bakugo's Weakness is a bid outdated, as in it applies much less with the Key being used in this thread.

UA Beginnings Bakugo would absolutely fool for any of Joseph's tricks, hook, line, and sinker. But his weakness relates more to situations where the objective isn't just to defeat the opponent.
JT Bakugo won't be immune from that either, but in an outright combat, he's prone to just blast away at Joseph without giving him any chances to pull off his tricks. Granted, Joseph can survive this too like in his first confrontation with Wamuu.

Joseph also isn't the only one capable of bullshit sleight of hand like putting grenades on Straizo's body. Bakugo was able to simultaneously take down six villains in mid-air with his explosion, at the same time pickpocket all of their stolen goods without damaging them. Just for comparison's sake even if Joseph's feat is more ridiculous. On top of Straizo being more overconfident and vain (and if I'm gonna do the same as the rest of the thread does, has significantly lower intelligence than Bakugo), so their situations aren't exactly the same.

I suppose my point is, viewing things more subjectively, we can't just say it works just because without considering other factors (at the same time we can't say it wouldn't work). Multiple intelligence is also a thing as Shadow pointed out, and, doing what everyone does in this thread, a gifted Bakugo keeping up with a genius Joseph isn't crazier than genius Joseph keeping up with Extraordinary Genius Pillarmen.
 
M3X said:
I got you fam. This fight is about to get even worse when this gets accepted.
Click to expand...
This fight can't really get anywhere else considering how the counted votes look like.

In any case, with how Joseph's CRT is constructed, shouldn't you have included Caesar's as well? He doesn't have an actual rating, just a description. He should be put at at least Genius too, considering he almost beat Wamuu.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Bakugo is blowing him up at range. Also joseph is getting blown up and knocked around by attacks 4x stronger than him, so how exactly is he gonna do all these super intricate movements?
Click to expand...
Dude, stop with this "nuked" and "blowing up" bullshit. A 4x AP advantage isn't that big considering this can't damage Joseph to a point where he can't heal. And the fact that Ultimate Hamon Overdrive makes the AP advantage to be less than 2x.

"How exactly is he gonna do all these intricate movements?" The same way he did against a dude who had the advantage against him. Straizo, Esidisi and Kars. He outsmarted all of them mid battle when they were stronger than him and they all had some kind of advantage, and against Esidisi, he was kinda nerfed and couldnt use Hamon properly because of the mask. If yoy are nor convinced, then I don't really care. I'm not a screenwriter and VS Matches aren't place to write a plot explaning with details how would Joseph outsmart Bakugo.

Just vote Bakugo and I'm voting Joseph.
 
Metalballrun said:
In any case, with how Joseph's CRT is constructed, shouldn't you have included Caesar's as well? He doesn't have an actual rating, just a description. He should be put at at least Genius too, considering he almost beat Wamuu.
Click to expand...
No. Joseph outsmarted Caesar during their "fight" and Caesar simply didn't the same as Joseph did against Whamu.
 
And like, we already have more than 10 votes for Joseph. Grace is omnipotent, grace is absolute. Grace started already.
 
M3X said:
Dude, stop with this "nuked" and "blowing up" bullshit. A 4x AP advantage isn't that big considering this can't damage Joseph to a point where he can't heal. And the fact that Ultimate Hamon Overdrive makes the AP advantage to be less than 2x.

"How exactly is he gonna do all these intricate movements?" The same way he did against a dude who had the advantage against him. Straizo, Esidisi and Kars. He outsmarted all of them mid battle when they were stronger than him and they all had some kind of advantage, and against Esidisi, he was kinda nerfed and couldnt use Hamon properly because of the mask. If yoy are nor convinced, then I don't really care. I'm not a screenwriter and VS Matches aren't place to write a plot explaning with details how would Joseph outsmart Bakugo.

Just vote Bakugo and I'm voting Joseph.
Click to expand...
It's appropriate, the 4x advantage is very significant, and bakugo's attacks knockback, burn and slam joseph, a few attacks and he'll be severly wounded, and hamon overdrive doesn't increase his durability, and I don't think he starts with that.
The difference between joseph vs the pillar guys amd bakugo is that in bakugo's case he's constantly getting carpey bombed by someone stronger than the pillar men, and not only that but at range. So he can't get close to bakugo and if he tries he gets blasted and or bakugo flies away. You guys are really underestimating bakugo.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
It's appropriate, the 4x advantage is very significant, and bakugo's attacks knockback, burn and slam joseph, a few attacks and he'll be severly wounded, and hamon overdrive doesn't increase his durability, and I don't think he starts with that.
The difference between joseph vs the pillar guys amd bakugo is that in bakugo's case he's constantly getting carpey bombed by someone stronger than the pillar men, and not only that but at range. So he can't get close to bakugo and if he tries he gets blasted and or bakugo flies away. You guys are really underestimating bakugo.
Click to expand...
Whats the worse we've seen Joseph heal from VS the worse damage we've seen Bakugo do? That's where I'll leave it at. You cant tell me with a straight face Joseph would let Bakugo grab him and hold onto-him for a literal contact explosion, and I reasonably dont see Joseph not* enduring the explosion seeing what we've seen him endure in other battles.
 
*Drastic Intelligence advantage, can pull one over characters who can analyze, understand and more things they've never encountered before in seconds including techniques, technology, personalities and even shit like whole ******* languages based on just a handful of words. Including a true warrior and one who's almost as bullshit as he is.
*Analytical prediction and analysis allows him to figure out Bakugo and how to exploit him as well as the environment and the tools at his disposal, even predicting his next moves and thoughts in some cases.
*Ludicrous sleight of hand and trap laying skills, can do so in the midst of combat as well, in plain view, even while he himself is at the disadvantage.
*Far more versatile, has multiple ways to take out Bakugo and utilize his skills against him.
**Such as mind control, a slew of environmental abilities and organ failure.
*Can one shot with Hamon due to durability negating properties if he lands a proper hit with it, mitigating his AP disadvantage.
*Can channel Hamon through objects and take Bakugo by surprise or attack at range depending on the environment, which can lead to a blind sided one shot.
*Can heal himself and dampen the pain, allowing him to mitigate some of the attacks' damage dealt to him by healing it and walking off pain that could be inflicted upon him.
*Will exploit Bakugo's weaknesses and abilities to his advantage, such as drawing his attention away and luring him into traps or take his focus away from traps and blindsides.
*Will flee or play dead if needed (Straizo, Santana, Wham, Kars, and while not Part 2, Empress and to an extent DIO in his old age), but only to come back with a plan at hand or to put himself at an advantage.
*Comes with weapons, weapons he can infuse with Hamon, allowing him to mitigate the range disadvantage, can easily use weapons and the like in such a way to blindside or tag Bakugo from within his blindspots.
*Can layer traps, avoid or destroy one to activate another.
*Sweat conducts Hamon, something Bakugo needs to use to use his explosions.
*Has experience being at an AP disadvantage.
*Instinctive reactions, if it was actually listed, idk why it aint, it was agreed to give him a limited form of it.
-His ultimate attack requires a cooldown and can leave him defenseless and weakened if not careful, temporarily.
-AP disadvantage, will take heavy damage if struck point blank, though he can mitigate this with Hamon healing and the like, but if he's not careful he can be overwhelmed.
-Range disadvantage unless in a proper environment (SBA says Central Park, so Joseph actually has some shit to work with, not optimal, but it's doable).
-Bakugo is less likely to explode in temper then he was early on, though it's still something that can very well happen and something Joseph can make happen.

Bakugo rushing Joseph is ******* dumb fyi, he wants to stay at range, if he gets within Hamon channeling range or god forbid, CQC, he dies, instantly, one good Hamon ohko's him.
And completely rushing Joseph would just lead into Joseph playing dead like he did against Wham or ******* off and coming back when he's at the advantage.
Joseph's healing also allows him to heal things like shattered bones, broken necks, damage that covers the whole of his body and at one point, he even healed having his arm nearly blown off, in panels mind you, as in seconds at most, and that was pre-training.

Edit:

*Joseph has dealt with and has been caught in multi-km shockwaves above what Bakugo can do and came out fine, Bakugo's shockwaves are a non-factor against Joseph.
*Joseph has a ridiculous stamina advantage, can run over a hundred km, do things like exhale and inhale over the length of whole minutes in one go.
*Can literally just dodge Bakugo's explosions via stamina, speed equal and the fact he scales above people who can literally do exactly that.
*Can render Bakugo's ability to dodge properly, speed equal or not, with traps and blindsides.
 
Last edited:
Chariot190 said:
*Drastic Intelligence advantage, can pull one over characters who can analyze, understand and more things they've never encountered before in seconds including techniques, technology, personalities and even shit like whole ******* languages based on just a handful of words. Including a true warrior and one who's almost as bullshit as he is.
*Analytical prediction and analysis allows him to figure out Bakugo and how to exploit him as well as the environment and the tools at his disposal, even predicting his next moves and thoughts in some cases.
*Ludicrous sleight of hand and trap laying skills, can do so in the midst of combat as well, in plain view, even while he himself is at the disadvantage.
*Far more versatile, has multiple ways to take out Bakugo and utilize his skills against him.
**Such as mind control, a slew of environmental abilities and organ failure.
*Can one shot with Hamon due to durability negating properties if he lands a proper hit with it, mitigating his AP disadvantage.
*Can channel Hamon through objects and take Bakugo by surprise or attack at range depending on the environment, which can lead to a blind sided one shot.
*Can heal himself and dampen the pain, allowing him to mitigate some of the attacks' damage dealt to him by healing it and walking off pain that could be inflicted upon him.
*Will exploit Bakugo's weaknesses and abilities to his advantage, such as drawing his attention away and luring him into traps or take his focus away from traps and blindsides.
*Will flee or play dead if needed (Straizo, Santana, Wham, Kars, and while not Part 2, Empress and to an extent DIO in his old age), but only to come back with a plan at hand or to put himself at an advantage.
*Comes with weapons, weapons he can infuse with Hamon, allowing him to mitigate the range disadvantage, can easily use weapons and the like in such a way to blindside or tag Bakugo from within his blindspots.
*Can layer traps, avoid or destroy one to activate another.
*Sweat conducts Hamon, something Bakugo needs to use to use his explosions.
*Has experience being at an AP disadvantage.
*Instinctive reactions, if it was actually listed, idk why it aint, it was agreed to give him a limited form of it.
-His ultimate attack requires a cooldown and can leave him defenseless and weakened if not careful, temporarily.
-AP disadvantage, will take heavy damage if struck point blank, though he can mitigate this with Hamon healing and the like, but if he's not careful he can be overwhelmed.
-Range disadvantage unless in a proper environment (SBA says Central Park, so Joseph actually has some shit to work with, not optimal, but it's doable).
-Bakugo is less likely to explode in temper then he was early on, though it's still something that can very well happen and something Joseph can make happen.

Bakugo rushing Joseph is ******* dumb fyi, he wants to stay at range, if he gets within Hamon channeling range or god forbid, CQC, he dies, instantly, one good Hamon ohko's him.
And completely rushing Joseph would just lead into Joseph playing dead like he did against Wham or ******* off and coming back when he's at the advantage.
Joseph's healing also allows him to heal things like shattered bones, broken necks, damage that covers the whole of his body and at one point, he even healed having his arm nearly blown off, in panels mind you, as in seconds at most, and that was pre-training.
Click to expand...
Thank you for listing all the probable reasons that Joseph could take advantage of Devil's Advocate.
 
Chariot190 said:
*Drastic Intelligence advantage, can pull one over characters who can analyze, understand and more things they've never encountered before in seconds including techniques, technology, personalities and even shit like whole ******* languages based on just a handful of words. Including a true warrior and one who's almost as bullshit as he is.
*Analytical prediction and analysis allows him to figure out Bakugo and how to exploit him as well as the environment and the tools at his disposal, even predicting his next moves and thoughts in some cases.
*Ludicrous sleight of hand and trap laying skills, can do so in the midst of combat as well, in plain view, even while he himself is at the disadvantage.
*Far more versatile, has multiple ways to take out Bakugo and utilize his skills against him.
**Such as mind control, a slew of environmental abilities and organ failure.
*Can one shot with Hamon due to durability negating properties if he lands a proper hit with it, mitigating his AP disadvantage.
*Can channel Hamon through objects and take Bakugo by surprise or attack at range depending on the environment, which can lead to a blind sided one shot.
*Can heal himself and dampen the pain, allowing him to mitigate some of the attacks' damage dealt to him by healing it and walking off pain that could be inflicted upon him.
*Will exploit Bakugo's weaknesses and abilities to his advantage, such as drawing his attention away and luring him into traps or take his focus away from traps and blindsides.
*Will flee or play dead if needed (Straizo, Santana, Wham, Kars, and while not Part 2, Empress and to an extent DIO in his old age), but only to come back with a plan at hand or to put himself at an advantage.
*Comes with weapons, weapons he can infuse with Hamon, allowing him to mitigate the range disadvantage, can easily use weapons and the like in such a way to blindside or tag Bakugo from within his blindspots.
*Can layer traps, avoid or destroy one to activate another.
*Sweat conducts Hamon, something Bakugo needs to use to use his explosions.
*Has experience being at an AP disadvantage.
*Instinctive reactions, if it was actually listed, idk why it aint, it was agreed to give him a limited form of it.
-His ultimate attack requires a cooldown and can leave him defenseless and weakened if not careful, temporarily.
-AP disadvantage, will take heavy damage if struck point blank, though he can mitigate this with Hamon healing and the like, but if he's not careful he can be overwhelmed.
-Range disadvantage unless in a proper environment (SBA says Central Park, so Joseph actually has some shit to work with, not optimal, but it's doable).
-Bakugo is less likely to explode in temper then he was early on, though it's still something that can very well happen and something Joseph can make happen.

Bakugo rushing Joseph is ******* dumb fyi, he wants to stay at range, if he gets within Hamon channeling range or god forbid, CQC, he dies, instantly, one good Hamon ohko's him.
And completely rushing Joseph would just lead into Joseph playing dead like he did against Wham or ******* off and coming back when he's at the advantage.
Joseph's healing also allows him to heal things like shattered bones, broken necks, damage that covers the whole of his body and at one point, he even healed having his arm nearly blown off, in panels mind you, as in seconds at most, and that was pre-training.
Click to expand...
dear god you really are a devil advocate
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most of MHA deprived of ways to even see stands? In this case:

"Incorporeality and Invisibility: Stands are the incorporeal manifestations of one's vital energy, and can only be seen by other Stands and Stand Users."
 
M1keyOnDiscord said:
Whats the worse we've seen Joseph heal from VS the worse damage we've seen Bakugo do? That's where I'll leave it at. You cant tell me with a straight face Joseph would let Bakugo grab him and hold onto-him for a literal contact explosion, and I reasonably dont see Joseph not* enduring the explosion seeing what we've seen him endure in other battles.
Click to expand...
Explosions are extremely harmful to the human body, they cause eardrums to rupture as well as lungs, they break organs and the shockwave sends humans flying, also shrapnel is like mini bullets, a bunch of these and even joseph will die.
Chariot190 said:
*Drastic Intelligence advantage, can pull one over characters who can analyze, understand and more things they've never encountered before in seconds including techniques, technology, personalities and even shit like whole ******* languages based on just a handful of words. Including a true warrior and one who's almost as bullshit as he is.
*Analytical prediction and analysis allows him to figure out Bakugo and how to exploit him as well as the environment and the tools at his disposal, even predicting his next moves and thoughts in some cases.
*Ludicrous sleight of hand and trap laying skills, can do so in the midst of combat as well, in plain view, even while he himself is at the disadvantage.
*Far more versatile, has multiple ways to take out Bakugo and utilize his skills against him.
**Such as mind control, a slew of environmental abilities and organ failure.
*Can one shot with Hamon due to durability negating properties if he lands a proper hit with it, mitigating his AP disadvantage.
*Can channel Hamon through objects and take Bakugo by surprise or attack at range depending on the environment, which can lead to a blind sided one shot.
*Can heal himself and dampen the pain, allowing him to mitigate some of the attacks' damage dealt to him by healing it and walking off pain that could be inflicted upon him.
*Will exploit Bakugo's weaknesses and abilities to his advantage, such as drawing his attention away and luring him into traps or take his focus away from traps and blindsides.
*Will flee or play dead if needed (Straizo, Santana, Wham, Kars, and while not Part 2, Empress and to an extent DIO in his old age), but only to come back with a plan at hand or to put himself at an advantage.
*Comes with weapons, weapons he can infuse with Hamon, allowing him to mitigate the range disadvantage, can easily use weapons and the like in such a way to blindside or tag Bakugo from within his blindspots.
*Can layer traps, avoid or destroy one to activate another.
*Sweat conducts Hamon, something Bakugo needs to use to use his explosions.
*Has experience being at an AP disadvantage.
*Instinctive reactions, if it was actually listed, idk why it aint, it was agreed to give him a limited form of it.
-His ultimate attack requires a cooldown and can leave him defenseless and weakened if not careful, temporarily.
-AP disadvantage, will take heavy damage if struck point blank, though he can mitigate this with Hamon healing and the like, but if he's not careful he can be overwhelmed.
-Range disadvantage unless in a proper environment (SBA says Central Park, so Joseph actually has some shit to work with, not optimal, but it's doable).
-Bakugo is less likely to explode in temper then he was early on, though it's still something that can very well happen and something Joseph can make happen.

Bakugo rushing Joseph is ******* dumb fyi, he wants to stay at range, if he gets within Hamon channeling range or god forbid, CQC, he dies, instantly, one good Hamon ohko's him.
And completely rushing Joseph would just lead into Joseph playing dead like he did against Wham or ******* off and coming back when he's at the advantage.
Joseph's healing also allows him to heal things like shattered bones, broken necks, damage that covers the whole of his body and at one point, he even healed having his arm nearly blown off, in panels mind you, as in seconds at most, and that was pre-training.
Click to expand...
I disagree, joseph won't be able to do any sleight of hand tricks if bajugo is carpet bombing him, and bakugo doesn't need to get close to joseph because he can just blast him at range, josephs hamon won't be effective because bakugo will be at range and rushing joseph is not a bad idea since joseph can't do much, any ranged attacks will be dodged since bakugo has incredible mid air skills. Playing dead will not work against bakugo, bakugo will never underestimate his opponents like for example against uraraka he went all out and didn't stop until the match was stopped and even if joseph plays dead bakugo won't let his guard down. All I see happening is bakugo rushing joseph and blasting him and joseph won't be able to do much and will take too much damage too quickly even hamon won't heal him ebough before he dies.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I disagree, joseph won't be able to do any sleight of hand tricks if bajugo is carpet bombing him, and bakugo doesn't need to get close to joseph because he can just blast him at range, josephs hamon won't be effective because bakugo will be at range and rushing joseph is not a bad idea since joseph can't do much, any ranged attacks will be dodged since bakugo has incredible mid air skills. Playing dead will not work against bakugo, bakugo will never underestimate his opponents like for example against uraraka he went all out and didn't stop until the match was stopped and even if joseph plays dead bakugo won't let his guard down. All I see happening is bakugo rushing joseph and blasting him and joseph won't be able to do much and will take too much damage too quickly even hamon won't heal him ebough before he dies.
Click to expand...
He has analytical prediction and analysis for that. Also it's been grace.
 
Bakugo FRA, even if it doesn't really matter given where grace is. A lot of Joseph's advantages seem to come from vast simplifications of Bakugo's character to me.
 
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