JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - Massively FTL Downgrade

[Second22]

From this calculation, there is a slight issue.

The calculation uses the arm's rotation distance during the time it takes for light to travel 2.4 cm, which is incorrect. At the point where the speed of light travels 2.4 cm, only the Chariot moves a mere 2 meters. After the arm rotation scene, the speed of light continues to travel, which must be more than 2.4 meters for sure. If we subtract the movement of the arm rotation, it will be approximately like this.

• Speed: 2/6.3157979e-11 = 31666624418.1 m/s or 105.62848922 c still MFTL

To simplify, in the image where Px is the light traveling 2.4 cm, in that image, the Chariot travels 2 meters. However, when the Chariot rotates its arm, how many centimeters does the light travel? We don't know that, and the arm rotation is not within the time frame of the image where the light travels only 2.4 cm.

 

[Chariot190]

To simplify, in the image where Px is the light traveling 2.4 cm, in that image, the Chariot travels 2 meters. However, when the Chariot rotates its arm, how many centimeters does the light travel? We don't know that, and the arm rotation is not within the time frame of the image where the light travels only 2.4 cm.

We actually do, because it slows down to a halt, it doesn't move any further past when he gets into position.
Also,
we use this one now

JoJo Part 3 - Chariot And The Speed Of Light (Re-do)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Second22]

We actually do, because it slows down to a halt, it doesn't move any further past when he gets into position.
Also,
we use this one now

JoJo Part 3 - Chariot And The Speed Of Light (Re-do)

vsbattles.fandom.com

However, it remains separate from the 2.4 cm. Regardless of whether the light stops or slows down, we should calculate only the part where the light slows down, along with the part where the arm rotates, not related to the distance of 2.4 cm.

 

[Chariot190]

Not really? The light stops moving by the time he swings.

The movement + swing, all happens within the light moving 2.4cm. The light, physically, doesn't move past that point. if anything, the feat is a massive low end.

 

[Second22]

It still uses the same time frame, only adding the distance of the arm movement. I just want to argue that the part of the arm rotation is not within the time frame of 2.4 cm. Even if you say that the light slows down or stops, it is not relevant because we are not measuring scenes in the same frame. While the light travels 2.4 cm, the Chariot moves 2 meters, which is unrelated to the Chariot's arm rotation. The slowing down or stopping of light should be separately determined, and then compared with the part where the Chariot rotates its arm.

 

[Chariot190]

I just want to argue

Never open a sentence with this again.

Even if you say that the light slows down or stops, it is not relevant because we are not measuring scenes in the same frame.

Doesn't need to be? As long as we know the light doesn't move any further, which we do, whether it's the same frame or not doesn't matter, what matters is how much it moved.

While the light travels 2.4 cm, the Chariot moves 2 meters, which is unrelated to the Chariot's arm rotation.

It is two different actions, both taken in the time the light moves 2.4cm.

The slowing down or stopping of light should be separately determined, and then compared with the part where the Chariot rotates its arm.

Why overcomplicate it?

 

[Second22]

Not really? The light stops moving by the time he swings.

The movement + swing, all happens within the light moving 2.4cm. The light, physically, doesn't move past that point. if anything, the feat is a massive low end.

Even if the light stops, we should find out if it actually stops, how long it stops, or if it just slows down. However, in any case, that part should be separated from the 2.4 cm for sure. We just need to find out if the Chariot rotates its arm while the light stops or slows down, which is not related to the Chariot moving 2 meters while the light travels 2.4 cm. Determining whether the light stops or slows down has nothing to do with the argument. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey.

 

[Second22]

The point is, you mentioned that the light stops. I don't know if it actually stops, and I don't want to argue about whether it stops or not because it might lead to the MFTL+ where light does actually stop. It's not something complicated, but do you have any context that indicates the light truly stops?

 

[Second22]

Never open a sentence with this again.

I don't really know what's wrong, but I apologize for that. My English is not very good.

 

[KLOL506]

Even if the light stops, we should find out if it actually stops, how long it stops, or if it just slows down. However, in any case, that part should be separated from the 2.4 cm for sure. We just need to find out if the Chariot rotates its arm while the light stops or slows down, which is not related to the Chariot moving 2 meters while the light travels 2.4 cm. Determining whether the light stops or slows down has nothing to do with the argument. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey.

There's no point. Moreover, the dilation can't be calculated because even in the original version there's no way to determine how many meters a pixel would make, as you need both the movement and the projectile in the same frame, and you need the meters-per-pixel stuff to make the time dilation formula work.

The point is, you mentioned that the light stops. I don't know if it actually stops, and I don't want to argue about whether it stops or not because it might lead to the MFTL+ where light does actually stop. It's not something complicated, but do you have any context that indicates the light truly stops?

We're literally shown that in the frame. It comes to a screeching halt in Chariot's perspective.

 

[KLOL506]

Doesn't need to be? As long as we know the light doesn't move any further, which we do, whether it's the same frame or not doesn't matter, what matters is how much it moved.

Pretty much. All that matters is that the projectile moved first and the character moved second. Whether it happens in different frames or not is completely irrelevant to us.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I currently share KLOL and Chariot’s sentiments

 

[KLOL506]

@Dalesean027 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Dark-Carioca @M3X_2.0 @Psychomaster35 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Migue79 Your input here would be appreciated.

 

[Second22]

There's no point. Moreover, the dilation can't be calculated because even in the original version there's no way to determine how many meters a pixel would make, as you need both the movement and the projectile in the same frame, and you need the meters-per-pixel stuff to make the time dilation formula work.

Well, that's it. It's impossible for us to calculate. We still can't find the velocity at which the arm is swinging, which only allows us to calculate the part of the movement of 2 meters.

We're literally shown that in the frame. It comes to a screeching halt in Chariot's perspective.

However, they are clearly in different frames. We can't see how much light moves back and forth while the Chariot swings its arms. Okay, yes, in the slow-motion video, the light gradually slows down, but they should be in separate frames. We can clearly see that the Chariot moves slowly while the light moves slowly.

If logic dictates that the light actually stops, it's not difficult to calculate. We just use 1 pixel to represent the distance of light movement and calculate it in the part of swinging arms. But, How I'll communicate remains the same. We should separate frame by frame, not count them together.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, that's it. It's impossible for us to calculate. We still can't find the velocity at which the arm is swinging, which only allows us to calculate the part of the movement of 2 meters.

Not really. We see in the frame itself that the light comes to a screeching halt to the point where it appears to no longer be moving. With that kinda slowdown, any kind of movement it'd be making in comparison to Silver Chariot's arm would be negligible to the overall calc.

However, they are clearly in different frames.

Doesn't matter.

We can't see how much light moves back and forth while the Chariot swings its arms.

Because it's already stopped in Chariot's perspective.

Okay, yes, in the slow-motion video, the light gradually slows down, but they should be in separate frames. We can clearly see that the Chariot moves slowly while the light moves slowly.

The slowdown would make any further distance moved by the light completely negligible for it to matter. The projectile dodging feat formula doesn't give two ***** about timeframe, it's a mere ratio of the distance moved by the person and the distance moved by the projectile.

If logic dictates that the light actually stops, it's not difficult to calculate. We just use 1 pixel to represent the distance of light movement and calculate it in the part of swinging arms.

For that you need a visible dark bordering on the light to work.

But, How I'll communicate remains the same. We should separate frame by frame, not count them together.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I also share the same opinions of chariot and klol

 

[Second22]

Not really. We see in the frame itself that the light comes to a screeching halt to the point where it appears to no longer be moving. With that kinda slowdown, any kind of movement it'd be making in comparison to Silver Chariot's arm would be negligible to the overall calc.


Doesn't matter.


Because it's already stopped in Chariot's perspective.


The slowdown would make any further distance moved by the light completely negligible for it to matter. The projectile dodging feat formula doesn't give two ***** about timeframe, it's a mere ratio of the distance moved by the person and the distance moved by the projectile.


For that you need a visible dark bordering on the light to work.

How is it different from what I explained? The light moves 2.4 cm, the Chariot moves 2 m. It's the correct ratio it should be. While you say after 2.4 cm, the light stops, why can't we use 1 px? I don't know if you understand 1 px how I mean. What I mean is 1 px in that image. The light stops, so.

• 1 px = 0.08571428571 cm
• Arm move = 226.312755397cm
• Speed = 226.312755397 / (0.08571428571 / 299792458)
• Speed = 791546667574 m/s or 2640.31547976 c

If you say the light stops, would this calculation be applicable? Because it doesn't move more than 1 px for sure. (I didn't read at your calculations. I just used the original numbers as an example.)

 

[KLOL506]

How is it different from what I explained? The light moves 2.4 cm, the Chariot moves 2 m. It's the correct ratio it should be.

Why? The light already stopped in his perspective. Heck, we aren't even taking into account that Chariot moved his arm back to prepare for that swing.

While you say after 2.4 cm, the light stops, why can't we use 1 px?

We need a dark bodering line to find out the pixel-thickness of the frame for more accuracy with the anime. But the standards for this are all over the place so...

I don't know if you understand 1 px how I mean. What I mean is 1 px in that image. The light stops, so.

• 1 px = 0.08571428571 cm

Normally I'd prefer a dark-bordering but I suppose this will do.

• Arm move = 226.312755397cm

Why are you assuming the arm moves 226 cm? That wouldn't even complete the arc required for the swing to hit Hanged Man, the entire movement doesn't work if he can't hit his target. Heck, we aren't even counting the fact that Chariot moved his arm to his back prior to prepare for the swing, it's already a low-ball as is.

• Speed = 791546667574 m/s or 2640.31547976 c

If you say the light stops, would this calculation be applicable? Because it doesn't move more than 1 px for sure. (I didn't read at your calculations. I just used the original numbers as an example.)

No, because there are still a few things missing.

As per our time dilation formula...

Person's True Speed = (Object's True Speed / Object's Apparent Speed) * Person's Apparent Speed

Object's apparent speed would be the meter-per-pixel moved divided by how long Chariot saw it before his blade struck. that part runs from Frame 148 to 191 as per VirtualDub2 software that measures frames. 43 frames in a 24 FPS video. 1.79167 seconds.

0.08571428571 cm is 0.0008571428571000001 m. All distance units must be in meters.

Object's apparent speed = 0.0008571428571000001 / 1.79167 = 0.00047840442 m/s apparent speed

Chariot's arc is apparent, 5 meters. He moves from frame 183-191, 8 frames. Divided by 24 FPS, that's 0.33333 seconds.

Chariot's apparent speed = 5/0.33333 = 15 m/s apparent speed. (Realistically it should be a lot higher in his perceived speed as ordinary fencers can do 90 km/h or 25 m/s but it is what it is)

Chariot's True Speed = (299792458 / 0.00047840442) * 15 = 9.3997603e+12 m/s or 31,354.2253955 c (MFTL+)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Chariot's True Speed = (299792458 / 0.00047840442) * 15 = 9.3997603e+12 m/s or 31,354.2253955 c (MFTL+)

Death Battle shivering in their boots rn.

 

[Second22]

Why? The light already stopped in his perspective. Heck, we aren't even taking into account that Chariot moved his arm back to prepare for that swing.


We need a dark bodering line to find out the pixel-thickness of the frame for more accuracy with the anime. But the standards for this are all over the place so...


Normally I'd prefer a dark-bordering but I suppose this will do.


Why are you assuming the arm moves 226 cm? That wouldn't even complete the arc required for the swing to hit Hanged Man, the entire movement doesn't work if he can't hit his target. Heck, we aren't even counting the fact that Chariot moved his arm to his back prior to prepare for the swing, it's already a low-ball as is.


No, because there are still a few things missing.

As per our time dilation formula...

Person's True Speed = (Object's True Speed / Object's Apparent Speed) * Person's Apparent Speed

Object's apparent speed would be the meter-per-pixel moved divided by how long Chariot saw it before his blade struck. that part runs from Frame 148 to 191 as per VirtualDub2 software that measures frames. 43 frames in a 24 FPS video. 1.79167 seconds.

0.08571428571 cm is 0.0008571428571000001 m. All distance units must be in meters.

Object's apparent speed = 0.0008571428571000001 / 1.79167 = 0.00047840442 m/s apparent speed

Chariot's arc is apparent, 5 meters. He moves from frame 183-191, 8 frames. Divided by 24 FPS, that's 0.33333 seconds.

Chariot's apparent speed = 5/0.33333 = 15 m/s apparent speed. (Realistically it should be a lot higher in his perceived speed as ordinary fencers can do 90 km/h or 25 m/s but it is what it is)

Chariot's True Speed = (299792458 / 0.00047840442) * 15 = 9.3997603e+12 m/s or 31,354.2253955 c (MFTL+)

Bro.. I already said I just used it as an example. I just wanted to explain the logic simply. The 1 px I meant, I wasn't actually going to use it. So, can your calculations be used? Because it's just a movement of 1 px according to your logic of light stopping that you mentioned.

 

[Second22]

Okay, regardless, if the calculation is correct, it should be recalculated. In the end, the frames of both aren't directly related because in your calculation, you only use part of the arm. I just don't want the 2-meter distance and the arm's movement distance to be counted together. I don't really care much about how the speed calculated from swinging the arm while the light stops is.

 

[KLOL506]

Bro.. I already said I just used it as an example. I just wanted to explain the logic simply. The 1 px I meant, I wasn't actually going to use it. So, can your calculations be used? Because it's just a movement of 1 px according to your logic of light stopping that you mentioned.

Needs a blog first.

Okay, regardless, if the calculation is correct, it should be recalculated. In the end, the frames of both aren't directly related because in your calculation, you only use part of the arm. I just don't want the 2-meter distance and the arm's movement distance to be counted together. I don't really care much about how the speed calculated from swinging the arm while the light stops is.

There is no way this calc works without the 5 meter distance the arm+blade would move as then it would not hit its target. And again, the frames not being related is completely irrelevant to the calc at hand. We just need the projectile to move before the character does, that's it. Thus, I am afraid I will have to disagree with you on this one.

 

[Second22]

There is no way this calc works without the 5 meter distance the arm+blade would move as then it would not hit its target. And again, the frames not being related is completely irrelevant to the calc at hand. We just need the projectile to move before the character does, that's it. Thus, I am afraid I will have to disagree with you on this one.

Ahhh, bro, I just meant when he moves up within 2 meters not arm+blade 5 meters. I don't disagree with anything.

 

[KLOL506]

Ahhh, bro, I just meant when he moves up within 2 meters not arm+blade 5 meters. I don't disagree with anything.

We're not using that 2 meters to begin with. We are only using the swing feat itself, as that's where the time dilation would apply and that's where the actual feat of parrying is done.

If we use the time dilation method, the distance the light moves would be rendered completely useless and irrelevant (The blue line that's 22.09px long), and we'd only use the meter-per-pixel value instead.

 

[KLOL506]

Now that I look at my calc, I have noticed another issue.

It seems that when Chariot swings from the back, when his arm moves to the top of his head, his forearm is bent, so in reality, the actual length of the moving object would be forearm+blade. I will fix this shortly.

 

[Second22]

We're not using that 2 meters to begin with. We are only using the swing feat itself, as that's where the time dilation would apply and that's where the actual feat of parrying is done.

If we use the time dilation method, the distance the light moves would be rendered completely useless and irrelevant (The blue line that's 22.09px long), and we'd only use the meter-per-pixel value instead.

Um, yes, I understand now. Since I've just read the new calculations again in detail. Previously, I only saw the original calculations, so I created this thread because the calculations were wrong. If it removed 2 meters, it's okay for me.

 

[KLOL506]

Um, yes, I understand now. Since I've just read the new calculations again in detail. Previously, I only saw the original calculations, so I created this thread because the calculations were wrong. If it removed 2 meters, it's okay for me.

Ah. I see. Well no worries, I never used the 2 meter distance to begin with, I only used the distance covered by the swing.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, I re-did my calc with the calculations. A low-ball end that undermines the feat, and a slow-mo version that makes Death Battle quake in their boots

JoJo Part 3 - Chariot And The Speed Of Light (Re-do)

vsbattles.fandom.com

CGMs, pls respond (I hope they notice the tags).

 

[Chariot190]

i went to bed

Even if the light stops, we should find out if it actually stops,

We did find out? It effectively freezes, it moves no more pixels in the last couple of frames as the light slows down to a crawl, when it cuts back to Hanged Man, he also hasn't moved.

how long it stops, or if it just slows down.

The entire following sequence, up to Hanged Man being cut down the middle. And yes, it is slow down, it's a slow down that leads to an apparent freeze.

However, in any case, that part should be separated from the 2.4 cm for sure.

No? The swing happens within, APART, of the 2.4cm distance, the swing is a different action from the 2m distance Chariot moved initially, not separate from the 2.4cm the light moved. The calc uses the initial and final frames, and overlays them.

We just need to find out if the Chariot rotates its arm while the light stops or slows down, which is not related to the Chariot moving 2 meters while the light travels 2.4 cm. Determining whether the light stops or slows down has nothing to do with the argument. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey.

This is just needlessly complicated, and something we, honestly, can't find the true value for.
But, what we do know, is that both actions occurred while it moved 2.4cm. The following slash is quicker, but it still happens within the distance, ie, the timeframe proposed.

It serves as a low-end, the true speed is probably MFTL+ or some shit, but, that doesn't take away that action 1+2 both occur within the allotted time proposed. The calc's proposals are not wrong, they merely downplay it.

In order for it to be wrong, the light would have had to move past 2.4cm, which from what we can tell, it doesn't.

The point is, you mentioned that the light stops. I don't know if it actually stops, and I don't want to argue about whether it stops or not because it might lead to the MFTL+ where light does actually stop.

Did you watch the clip in the blog? The light slows to a crawl, by the time Chariot is in position, it's frozen.
Surely you read the blog before making the 15th Hanged Man Downgrade we've had in the past little while?

because it might lead to the MFTL+ where light does actually stop. It's not something complicated, but do you have any context that indicates the light truly stops?

And what, you don't want to argue it because it might lead to an upgrade?

It's not something complicated, but do you have any context that indicates the light truly stops?

And yes, we, quite literally, watch it happen, and then see it happen from Hanged Man's POV (where he doesn't move any further). And I didn't say complicated, I said, overcomplicate.
it seems klol did stuff while i was asleep tho

 

[KLOL506]

Bruv, no point anymore, there was a misconception that I somehow used 2 meters for Silver Chariot appearing in frame, when in reality I never used that to begin with, I only used the swing. That was the only issue.

 

[Second22]

No? The swing happens within, APART, of the 2.4cm distance, the swing is a different action from the 2m distance Chariot moved initially, not separate from the 2.4cm the light moved. The calc uses the initial and final frames, and overlays them.

Nah, it seems like you still don't understand. Anyway, the current calculations show that the two are no longer related. The distance of the arm rotation is used to calculate the time when the light stops, which is not related to the 2.4 cm. Please read the new calculation.

And what, you don't want to argue it because it might lead to an upgrade?

I don't care about the result, whether it upgrades or downgrades even a bit. Don't talk like that. I'm just trying to correct what went wrong, and that has been addressed by removing the 2 meters distance.

 

[Second22]

In summary, the calculations in the OP need to subtract the part of the arm rotation, using only the upward movement of 2 meters. However, the calculation of the speed of the arm rotation needs to be re-calculated in the manner that KLOL did. That is, calculating the time when the light stops still in 1 px. If the part where the arm rotation is accepted, I'm okay with it. But at the point where the light moves 2.4 cm, we should use only 2 meters.

 

[KLOL506]

Meh, no point in beating a dead horse over the 2.4 cm and 2 meter thing (Since we're not gonna use that 2 meter thing anyway to start off, only the swing, the 2.4 cm thing and the swinging happening in separate frames doesn't matter) and even then the feat is low-balled because we're not even taking the arm going backwards to prepare for the swing.

 

[Second22]

Meh, no point in beating a dead horse over the 2.4 cm and 2 meter thing (Since we're not gonna use that 2 meter thing anyway to start off, only the swing, the 2.4 cm thing and the swinging happening in separate frames doesn't matter) and even then the feat is low-balled because we're not even taking the arm going backwards to prepare for the swing.

Then let's discuss that part. Anyway, we have to wait for the new calculation to see if it will be accepted or not. It's indeed a new issue.

 

[KLOL506]

Already discussed that part in tandem that it doesn't matter if the 2.4 cm thing and the 5 meter swing happen in separate frames, since the distance moved by the light after this will be far too negligible for it to matter (Due to the slowing-down in Chariot's perspective), and if we actually use that negligible distance the light covered in the frame where the 5 meter swing happens, the result would be far higher than what M3X's calc shows it as.

All in all, the non-slow mo version that I made is a low-ball across all fronts. I don't see the point in having to repeat myself any further as that would clutter this thread, so it's best to leave it in the hands of the CGMs now.

 

[Chariot190]

Then let's discuss that part. Anyway, we have to wait for the new calculation to see if it will be accepted or not. It's indeed a new issue.

It really isn't, your issue with the calc, isn't an actual issue, it's just a low-end but the actual math and conditions presented are both, ultimately, true.

You keep going on how it's multiple actions separate from the cm distance the light moved, yet, all actions performed occur within the cm distance HM traversed. All this does, is give us a minimal baseline foundation it can't be any lower than.

The fact the swing occurs within the allotted time, makes this whole CRT fundamentally flawed and nitpicking a fact that isn't even an assumption or false.

You'd have a point if he swung after it kept moving, but he doesn't, he swings before it moves any further, and as such the proposed timeframe/distance of "(3.9856037699 * 299792458) / 0.01893428571", isn't wrong, it's just tacking on a bit extra distance the light itself moved, not Chariot, for a baseline.
Like I'm not sure what to tell you beyond what you're arguing, the calc nor feat actually does.

The fact KLOL is humoring you anyway should be beyond good enough, this, along with every other thread about this feat, has been a waste of time, feels like we need a discussion rule at this point. Given I'm not a CGM, this will be my final post on this thread, and instead, I will focus my efforts on dealing with the abundance of these threads.

 

[Second22]

Then let's discuss that part. Anyway, we have to wait for the new calculation to see if it will be accepted or not. It's indeed a new issue.

Guys… I've stopped typing for a while now, and I've already said to wait for new calculations whether to accept or not. So just let it go.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, best to not clutter this thread further and to leave it in the hands of CGMs now.

JoJo Part 3 - Chariot And The Speed Of Light (Re-do)

vsbattles.fandom.com

@CloverDragon03 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Dalesean027 @Dark-Carioca @Psychomaster35 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Migue79 My apologies, but I have finished correcting the calcs and adding the time dilution end. Your input here would be appreciated once again.

 

[KLOL506]

We got three approvals on the time dilation method. I believe that's more than enough for us to conclude this thread.

 

[Damage3245]

We got three approvals on the time dilation method. I believe that's more than enough for us to conclude this thread.

I assume any changes will still need a CRT, right?